JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum John Rich/ Kaepernick

That's a moving story, although I don't get it. Unless his mother was somehow being made an American citizen while still in Israel, she would not have been asked to raise her hand and swear an oath by a consular official there.

But who cares? He's a story teller and maybe he made it up to add emotional impact. He obviously feels very strongly about America, as he should.

I could say who cares what you have to say too cant I? Thought we were discussing.

Actually theres more to that interview. Couldnt find it. But he was talking about people complaining, "My mother was in a concentration camp" "Shut the [naughty word removed] Up" is what he said.

Not a big fan of his music but hes an intelligent guy. Former teacher and speaks like 4 or 5 languages.

You misunderstood me. I meant who cares if he made it up. His points still resonate.

But its only you saying he made the story up. Happens to be true.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were there when it happened.

I'm not saying he made the whole thing up. I'm saying that I think he might have elaborated somewhat on the details of what happened, based on the facts that I explained above. Consular officials don't ask people to raise their hand and swear allegiance when they come to the USA. It's something that happens in a citizenship ceremony. So maybe he dramatized the episode a little. He won't be the first to have done that. Besides, he was a small child at the time.

I didn't realize you were there either. Maybe he DIDN'T make it up.

I dont think he did, maybe you're looking for something that isnt there. And apparently cause you would like to slam America.

Go head.

Maybe he didn't. In that case a consular official decided to do something completely unheard of. Maybe that's what happened.

Thinking Gene Simmons might be embellishing his story a little is not slamming America. I should not have got into such a stupid discussion about something as unimportant as the exact accuracy of part of a Gene Simmons interview. If I had known it was going to upset you so much, I wouldn't have.

It was silly, that's why I dont know why you thought he made it up.

"Thinking Gene Simmons might be embellishing his story a little is not slamming America"

Never said it did, but if you agreed with him, you wouldnt say he made it up.

You have mentioned your stance before, it's not rocket science to figure out

I explained twice why I thought he might have made those particular details up. I'm not going to do so again. I wish I hadn't brought it up. I didn't think a minor detail like that would be controversial and upsetting, especially in a post that basically agrees with his sentiments and, by extension I think, yours.

The rest of your post makes no sense. I actually made clear that his sentiments resonated with me despite my doubts about that particular incident. All your assumptions about my "stance" are wrong.

Look, this discussion is obviously doing neither of us any good. I'm out. If you want to continue it, you're on your own.

I said commitTED, past tense.


None of us said that.


None of us said that, either.


No one is complaining about everything.


Some of us are nice and some aren't, just like anywhere in the world. That's not what matters.

You're not making fair arguments. Do you know the expression straw man? A straw man is an argument invented solely for the purpose of having something easy to knock down. It's easy to argue with someone who says that every other country is better than America. But no one has said that. You're inventing positions that no one holds.

That is, you're creating straw men - easy to knock down but not responding to what anyone is actually talking about.

Oh good Gavin is out.

I'm tired of people from other countries bashing ours. It happens here way too much, and im sick of it. The rest of the world is jealous of us.

The guy already mentioned our "chest beating" for defending our country. Some people just assume you're stupid and they can slip things in without nobody noticing.

Next?????

Delmont, now you're being stupid. When Somebody says "WE", we are not implying that all individuals, particularly civilians with no political preferences, or even people in power, treat everybody nice. We are talking about the way of life and the system in which we live in.

Not everybody is nice to each other? What a revelation.

Dammit - I have to come back because I can't just leave that false accusation of bashing America hanging there. It's not true. I love this great country and am deeply offended by that insult. I'm not going to get back into this argument, just ask you to please stop misrepresenting me and look elsewhere for straw men to shout at.

Now I cant trust you Gavin...you said you were not going to discuss it.

Is there no end?

One of my favorite movie quotes - from The American President:

"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".

John

You insulted him. He wasn't bashing America. He was questioning one detail of Simmons's interview, and you jumped down his neck. I hope he comes back. He's a thoughtful guy.


What makes you think so? I've traveled a lot and haven't found that. I don't run into it when I talk with visitors, immigrants, and refugees here, either.


I didn't read anything that suggested Gavin thinks you're stupid. It seemed like he was just trying to talk about what you've posted.


On the other hand, I am reading something that clearly states that you think I'm stupid. Insulting folks is a poor way to persuade them of anything.


That wasn't my point. I was saying that we don't have a monopoly on virtue. We're one nation among many, and most nations have things to be proud of and ashamed of.


Sarcasm doesn't help your case, either.

Again, i'm not saying everything is perfect, and that people don't have a right to protest. But if you are going to burn the flag, denigrate it, make mockery of the national anthem etc etc etc, you better make sure you are protesting for the right reason and are correct. That is why I stay away from political conversations for the most part, and I dont write political songs, in the event somebody might hear them, I dont want to be wrong, and have my name on the protest.

But, I'd like people to think about how great we have it here. That is the whole thing. All we seem to get is complaints, we take everything we are and have for granted.

Like successful rich musician, actor, athlete, first thank the people who made you. You parents might be a good start since you wouldnt be here without them. Plug that in to our country

You have an answer or a quote for everything. Not impressed.

They're quotes of your words. I'm not trying to impress you. I'm trying to have a two-way conversation.

Yes, and you go through them as if everything I say is wrong and needs correction.

You are trying to have a conversation where you are the wise one, and you need to show the rest the way.

Ehhhh, next question.....

its time to avoid this thread, not going anywhere.

That's a line from a poem. Nothing more. And an inscription on a French statue originally meant the Suez Canal entrance and then pitched around the USA in such places as Niagara Falls. It was no gift to the USA gov from the French people as many think. The poem placed on it is neither law, nor the consent of the American people. It's a piece of fiction by a single author. It is definitively not a promise from America to anyone.

I'd give you a "like" of we had that feature! heh.