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#1142840 - 07/14/18 10:18 AM How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why  
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Douglas Murphy Offline
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I am asking.

It seems that every time I turn around, and one of the reasons I fell away from this site and others like it, is that the ones in the "know" are forever telling "US" that we do not have a chance in this business. That there are to many roadblocks and just way to many out there looking for their slice.

So I decided to try, again, to look for not only lyrical collaborators but, putting together a team of the professionals and semi professionals found here on JPF and do something together which maybe could better the odds [??]

"WE" who post here do what we do for our reasons, me I cannot seem to stop wanting to write, to sing, and record what I create and even though I work from 6 to 6 I find time on the weekends to write and get something down that I can be proud of but my experience and expertise falls short to others here who know a lot more than I when it comes to lyrics, and demoing etc.., So again why don't we pool the talent here and work together on an album, a concept one, a country one...,? I know that we all have lives and this is one part of those lives but we always seem to find the time to work on the craft and present something whether it is a lyric or an mp3 so why not form some kind of partnership?

That is what I am fishing for.

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

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#1142850 - 07/14/18 11:05 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Good Idea....Maybe the Album could be about JPF and all our dreams and frustrations etc. I bet many would find what we go through very interesting. It could be a Musical....We are NOT Just PLAIN Folks....we are Special Folks with special Talent.....

#1142859 - 07/14/18 02:16 PM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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We are at that Barry. There is enough talent here to cover all the bases from the ground floor up. All what is needed is an interest and those who believe that together we might have a choice.

"How many to write a hit?" Well maybe as many as you can get.

Douglas

Last edited by Douglas Murphy; 07/14/18 02:16 PM.

"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

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Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1142872 - 07/15/18 08:59 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Write because it brings you pleasure and enhances your life.

The music world is stocked with people who could write a good song about any subject, and are connected. Your chances or mine of breaking in are slim to none. Closer to none. We probably have a better chance of producing our own song and launching it to success from Itunes or Youtube. Also, slim to none. The competition is in the millions.

Sorry

#1142875 - 07/15/18 01:13 PM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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On another website, and several years ago, someone started a collaboration whereas first writer composed 2 measures (or one lyric phrase), then the next writer would add 2, and so on and on... Turned out to be senseless mush, though interesting. I think for consistency it's best to keep a collaboration at the bare minimum. One music writer and one lyricist works Best for Collabs in my humble opinion.

Best, John smile

#1142879 - 07/15/18 02:41 PM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Hi Douglas:

In response to your point... JPF is that "venue" you describe in your opening post... and more. You can find collaborators for just about any musical need. I do my best to avoid collaborations for several reasons: 1. We don't all have the same musical taste. 2. We don't all have the same musical talent. 3. Few of us have the work ethic needed to keep the effort from being an exercise in futility. (There are more reasons... for instance... suppose your "group" writes a hit and it goes musically and monetarily "viral.") It means the "pie" gets sliced into smaller pieces... with your publisher getting the Lion's share of 50% right off the top.

Do you seek a melody writer or a lyricist? (...or both, wrapped into one neat package... including vocals?) We have all of these "types" here. We also have several talented "Demo" Artists who share their talent with us for a price. I usually sing my own songs but have paid two of these talented Demo Artists to sing my songs... and/or provide their own arrangement of my original work.

John L. Schick (one of the most talented individuals at this site) said it pretty well... as far as collaborations are concerned. Even then, the ground rules need to be fully understood and followed between parties. If you are capable of doing the entire song all by yourself... it sure eliminates a great deal of logistics, waiting time, misunderstandings and disagreements. Most of all... if you don't write songs because it represents some form of entertainment or amusement for your "inner soul"... you are probably in for a "rude awakening" and have heard to word "IMPOSSIBLE" too many times regarding those odds. At first, that really statement really "rankled" me... but the awful truth is that iTunes and other well-funded similar outfits are into streaming and the songwriter is reduced to serf under those conditions. Serfs with impossible odds of success.

Visit the Lyric Boards if you seek writers/lyricists. You probably already know this... but I always want to be supportive and positive in my responses. Finding a good melody writer/composer is a much more difficult task because most of them cover all the bases with their talent.

All the best in your musical endeavors, ----Dave

#1142881 - 07/15/18 05:04 PM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Douglas Murphy Offline
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Well it was worth a shot. smile Thanks for stopping by guys.

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1142901 - 07/16/18 07:28 PM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Hey Dave. If what you say is true [and I do agree with you and the points you make] then why pay someone to demo you work? If we do not have a chance as individuals, and no chance as a group then again why would I or anyone else pay for a service that will never get results?

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1142905 - 07/16/18 08:00 PM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Hi Doug: (Let me know if you prefer Douglas)

I paid to have more than a dozen of my songs demoed by two different artists here at JPF. My reason was simple... I am getting old and my vocal ability is limited. Besides... it's fun to hear your song coming at you from an entirely new direction. I did not go to Nashville or other equally great locations where Demo Artists can be found in abundance. Why? Simple... cost! Knowing my songs will never be heard by "ears that count" at least I can afford to hear them myself. Mike Zaneski is a a treasure and should be supported by anyone who needs Vocals, Musical Backing or a fresh set of talent to polish up your song.

A friend of mine who worked his day job as an Administrator for a major Hospital wrote and played at least fifty or sixty songs. He paid a studio in Nashville about $300 bucks per song (more for many) and had about twenty demos done. They sounded pretty good but he was unable to get a nibble on any of them. We would attend NSAI gatherings to hear the "gospel of honing our craft" but in all honesty, I don't believe we gained much value for our effort. I suppose it depends upon how much one is willing to invest in time and money... and then there is the talent needed... and almost as important... contacts who can get you through the back door to be heard.

I would not venture to make a wager that a group of artists with similar backgrounds and musical interests could possibly make it in today's world. It is, however, one big crap shoot. New "bands" are formed every day... and by that same pathway, broken up for whatever reason. Even the Beatle's could not get along all the time. I can just imagine how many times the Eagles threatened to split up. Being a "Road Warrior" is no bed of roses, either.

If it stops being fun... stop doing it! Hopefully, it will be a lifelong treasure for you. One thing for sure, it is really difficult for me to write an "upbeat" song... but I do my best to work in that direction. Sad songs seldom sell and most of us spend way too much time locked up in our loneliness. LOL!

So much for my "take" on the state of writing songs today.

As always, all my best wishes for success. ----Dave

#1142936 - 07/18/18 07:59 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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What Dave said. All good points.

Only thing that I except is sad songs. I like minor chords and minor chords incline towards sad songs.
I've written some upbeat songs but dont enjoy it as much. Stated another way...writing sad songs makes me happy. smile

As Dave said....

"If it stops being fun... stop doing it!"


#1142938 - 07/18/18 09:13 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Sad songs are easier to write because they are more believable than happy songs.

Even songs that I consider fun, like most Ramone's songs, I wanna Be Sedated, pins and needles, blitzkreig bop, all have sad undertones.

If a guy is hanging in a bar telling the other folks there that his wife punched him in the mouth, and kicked him out, they believe him. If he tells them he loves his wife so much and can only stand to be away from her for half hour, you don't believe him.

It seems that it's easier to relate to hard times than good times.

And when you are writing it, the more chit it's going to appear if you fluff it, which we all try to do.

You can always spot a rainbow, but you gotta come at the listener real. My favorites had a way of making me feel good even though things might not be perfect.

#1142939 - 07/18/18 09:31 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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I actually think sad songs are harder to write than happy ones - at least, sad songs that anyone wants to listen to. You have to find an angle, details that make the listener sympathize with the singer rather than just wish he would stop whining. Most people who think they can write songs but can't go for the sad stuff about depressing subjects (usually themselves) because they think that's what artistic geniuses like them do. The result is usually pretty awful. People are more forgiving of bad happy songs than of bad sad songs.

#1142943 - 07/18/18 10:32 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Guess it depends. If you are a singer songwriter, the idea is to say something about yourself, that's the whole thing. You have to perform it. And if trying to write from real experience, the compelling stuff is going to come from the sad stuff, so you just draw from that.

Plus, happy songs are considered nerdy, and don't get the same recognition.

Bobby mcferrins "Don't worry be happy" is one of the most annoying songs on the planet. He's a very talented guy, but that song is not taken seriously by most folks. Few if any people are gonna cite that as a favorite song.

I wonder if he went to court for a plagiarism trial, if he'd be saying don't worry be happy, i kind of doubt it.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/18/18 10:34 AM.
#1142944 - 07/18/18 10:37 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Of course it would be nice to make money writing music. But without the money, it's still fun.

#1142946 - 07/18/18 10:40 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Guess it depends. If you are a singer songwriter, the idea is to say something about yourself. . . .

That's why I'm not a singer/songwriter. I like to write songs and I like to sing them, but writing about myself would even put ME to sleep!

#1142947 - 07/18/18 10:48 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
I actually think sad songs are harder to write than happy ones . . . .Bobby mcferrins "Don't worry be happy" is one of the most annoying songs on the planet. He's a very talented guy, but that song is not taken seriously by most folks. . . .

There's no difference. You think of an idea, you work on it till it's finished, then you stop. Happy, sad, scary, rude, thoughtful, tender, angry, or funny, it all works the same way: think, work, finish, stop.

If you mostly have sad thoughts, your songs will mostly be sad. If you mostly have happy thoughts, your songs will be happy. If you have all kinds of thoughts, you'll write all kinds of songs.

By the way, I love "Don't Worry, Be Happy," and I've met lots of other folks who do, too. That's pretty much the definition of the word hit. The thing is, you're not supposed to take it (or yourself) too seriously. That's the whole point!

Last edited by Delmont; 07/19/18 09:52 PM.
#1142948 - 07/18/18 10:51 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Well Delmont, people like singer songwriters mainly because they speak to them, in one way or another It doesn't have to be true life accounts, most songs are mostly fiction, but it's that connection between the writer and the audience.

Rock bands can have combos of singer songwriters and the band, so people can get into the band as well.

I'm still mesmerized by the talent of the band rush...heard of them? These guys are master musicians, and were able to write songs that were singable, even with all that musicality behind them.

However, I never understood one damn thing they sung about, can't relate to them on that level, even though the lyrics are good, from a literary point of view. So that is why I don't have them on my top favorites lists.

But different things attract different people. Some people think of a song as nothing more to dance to. That's a skill in and of itself, getting people off the arse and dancing. That's what live bands used to be paid to do, make people Dance, and it's cool, I can dig it.

But when we speak of music that really moved us....

#1142949 - 07/18/18 10:53 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Well Delmont, people like singer songwriters mainly because they speak to them. . . .

Yup.

When people ask me who my favorite singer/songwriter is, I usually say "Aretha."

#1142950 - 07/18/18 10:57 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Guess it depends. If you are a singer songwriter, the idea is to say something about yourself, that's the whole thing. You have to perform it. And if trying to write from real experience, the compelling stuff is going to come from the sad stuff, so you just draw from that.

Plus, happy songs are considered nerdy, and don't get the same recognition.

Bobby mcferrins "Don't worry be happy" is one of the most annoying songs on the planet. He's a very talented guy, but that song is not taken seriously by most folks. Few if any people are gonna cite that as a favorite song.

I wonder if he went to court for a plagiarism trial, if he'd be saying don't worry be happy, i kind of doubt it.


Not so sure that being a singer-songwriter is all about saying something about yourself. The best will have songs that are deeply introspective, but also many that are about other things and other people, observations, funny stories, etc. Those who do a whole set about themselves mostly overestimate how interesting they are to other people.

I don't think Bobby McFerrin meant that song to be taken seriously. It was happily snapped up by millions of people who also didn't take it seriously. That's the thing about happy songs - they can work even if they're not deep or meant to be taken seriously, provoke thought, etc. A bouncy tune, a bit of moon in june nonsense, and people are OK with it. It's just supposed to be fun, even if it's not very "good."

#1142951 - 07/18/18 11:01 AM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
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No, he definitely did not mean it to be serious, it was a novelty, songs like that dont work very often.

He knew it was quirky, knew it was nerdy, and I'm sure smiled when he cashed those checks.

#1142966 - 07/18/18 05:24 PM Re: How Many Writers Do You Need...AND why [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Sad songs are easier to write because they are more believable than happy songs.

Even songs that I consider fun, like most Ramone's songs, I wanna Be Sedated, pins and needles, blitzkreig bop, all have sad undertones.

If a guy is hanging in a bar telling the other folks there that his wife punched him in the mouth, and kicked him out, they believe him. If he tells them he loves his wife so much and can only stand to be away from her for half hour, you don't believe him.

It seems that it's easier to relate to hard times than good times.

And when you are writing it, the more chit it's going to appear if you fluff it, which we all try to do.

You can always spot a rainbow, but you gotta come at the listener real. My favorites had a way of making me feel good even though things might not be perfect.



Nicely stated.


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