Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.
By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
I’ve been visiting the main forum for years but only recently discovered how lively and supportive the MP3 forum is for songwriters - so I joined JPF a month ago to participate. The level of daily activity here is very encouraging. I’ve enjoyed listening to a couple of dozen songs so far. I’m struck by the thoughtfulness of everyone’s comments – not a common experience on other music forums where I’ve occasionally posted a song. I’ll confess it’s a little daunting to listen here to so many fully realized recordings with rich arrangements, high quality musicianship, strong vocals and high quality recorded sound. These songs may be intended as demos but many strike me as radio ready. My recordings are more like basic scratch tracks than fully realized demos. At age 73 this simple approach offers my best chance to pass along a few of my favorite songs to my children. I have no plan to actively market my songs. I wrote the following song in 2016 after a close friend and musical collaborator passed away. The song touches on his death but is also a reflection on the good things in life and the passing of time. I look forward to your comments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jqbGcejWJUI Can’t Stand Still ORIGINAL 1ST VERSE When you see that hurtin’ feelin’ in her eyes Here’s a remedy you can try It starts with a little bit of I love you And I know you love me too So here’s what we should do. PROPOSED REPLACEMENT 1ST VERSE If you see some hurt, some sadness in her eyes. (thanks to 9ne) Here’s a remedy you can try They say that a little pinch of I love you Can make a smile shine through And yield a kiss or two Chorus And you know that (Gavin's suggested line with my thanks) We can’t stand still We’re makin’ the most of our time A fork in the highway may slow us down But we won’t stand still A stroll on a boulevard can be so nice A kiss on the lips can be paradise A little bit of this and a little bit of that Can make our lives complete Make our lives complete I once knew a man who worked his life away With little to show at the end of the day Or so he felt but when the truth be told His life lives on in you His life lives on in me If not for the friends we meet along the way Our lives would be dull, a canvas of gray And when they leave, a part of us leaves too But their lives live on in me Their lives live on in you Copyright 2016 Mike Gouthro SOCAN
Last edited by mikegouthro; 07/19/18 04:17 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,857 Likes: 1
Top 10 Poster
|
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,857 Likes: 1 |
Hello Mike, Nice to meet such a talented guy, your song is beautiful, something to be really proud of. Thanks for sharing something so cool ! Calvin http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,143 Likes: 26
Top 200 Poster
|
Top 200 Poster
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,143 Likes: 26 |
Simple is good! It's a beautiful song that only needs a guy and a guitar. Nice gentle melody and delivery that suits the moving lyric. Nicely done, Mike. Looking forward to hearing more.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,521
Top 200 Poster
|
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,521 |
We like everything about this...and it is a fitting tribute to your friend. RIP
Thanks for sharing and we look forward to many more!
J&B
Check out our new album Janice Merritt "Am I Blue Enough?" on Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, Amazon and others.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thank you Calvin
Through the years I’ve avoided playing my songs in jams with other musician-friends, probably due to some insecurity. I would always default to playing well known songs. Positive comments from a fellow songwriter are a great encouragement to step out a little more. Thanks again.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Hi Gavin
Thanks for your kind words. It’s good to hear that the song in such a basic form can be effective. I recently signed up for my first ever songwriter circle in downtown Toronto – with considerable trepidation. I’m playing this song for a small group of fellow writers and guests. I’m feeling more confident after reading your words.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thank you Janice & Bud
Your songs are a standout to me. I’m delighted that you like this one of mine. It’s unusual for me to write about a personal experience. In this case it was therapeutic, and it was received in that spirit by my friend’s family.
I’m the opposite of prolific and have only a short list of road-worthy songs. But I do look forward to sharing a few in the weeks ahead.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,143 Likes: 26
Top 200 Poster
|
Top 200 Poster
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,143 Likes: 26 |
You have nothing to worry about, Mike I went through the same worries a few months ago when I started attending meetings of my local NSAI chapter, but was immediately made to feel welcome. It's not just about what you have in your own bag of tricks but how willing and able you are to offer constructive advice and criticism to others. That might even be more important.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,895
Top 40 Poster
|
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,895 |
Awesome, Mike! A well performed guitar/vocal can be a powerful thing, as you've just proved. Looking forward to hearing more.
Ricki
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,985
Top 200 Poster
|
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,985 |
Mike,
Excellent! A beautiful write. Solid throughout.
The guitar/vocal video is really nicely done.
I enjoyed that.
fj
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thanks for that advice Gavin.
I know the format of this song-circle involves commenting on other people's songs, but I've been focusing on my own delivery. It's important, particularly as newcomer, that I that offer thoughtful comments to others.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Ricki
Thank you. It's great to get encouragement from folks here who have been putting themselves out there for some time - writing and sharing their songs.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Floyd Jane
Thank you for your generous words.
My videos are certainly one dimensional and basic - intended for my kids to watch occasionally after I'm gone - and to provide a view of my guitar playing for those who may share my interest in finger picking.
I'm stepping up my video game in upcoming months. I'll be using four inexpensive camcorders and an eight channel preamp which will allow me to get some visual variety and, more importantly, allow one or two other musicians to join me on future songs. I may even offer my mini studio to other small acoustic groups who would like a video of their work.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,985
Top 200 Poster
|
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,985 |
Mike - I sent you a PM ("My Stuff" should be flashing up above)....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,831
Top 30 Poster
|
Top 30 Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,831 |
Hi Mike:
So glad you've begun to participate in the various facets of JPF. Your song is a treasure for several reasons: Musically, it covers all the bases and is strong enough to stand alone with one instrument accompanying your own excellent vocal. Lyrically, it says things that matter and are meaningful in a cynical and often callous world we experience today. I admire your courage to sing and play in front of a video camera and leave the listener a bit sadder but wiser for having had the opportunity.
Thanks for caring enough to share it with us. Bravo! ----Dave
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thank you Dave
I'm bowled over by your generous and supportive comments. Anytime my focus waivers I'll surely re-read your post.
Mike
Last edited by mikegouthro; 07/13/18 08:30 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,325 Likes: 4
Top 40 Poster
|
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,325 Likes: 4 |
Love it Mike! Very well done across the board. Thank you for sharing.
Douglas
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thank you Douglas
I feel like I've found a new hangout with fellow songwriters. I wish I had joined sooner.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2
Top 500 Poster
|
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2 |
I empathize with the intent, but I feel the lyric is all over the place-no consistent story line from start to finish. Usually the chorus is bigger, but your lead in from the first verse makes it feel like another verse. (Am I the only one one that hears this stuff, or should I just get with the program and praise everything LOL) Here's something: I don't care if it's just for whoever-every song you write deserves your best effort. I feel you're actually making the melody suffer by singing and playing at the same time.... Best, -Mike
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
9ne/mike
I’ll respond to your words in quotes.
“I empathize with the intent, but I feel the lyric is all over the place-no consistent story line from start to finish.”
You’re right. There is no consistent story line beyond reflecting on life, loved ones and precious memories as time slips away. Some of my favourite songs are stream of consciousness vs story line songs – for example: Still Crazy After All These Years. As long as the emotions ring true and the words flow well and are not clichés, I’m ok with that.
“Usually the chorus is bigger, but your lead in from the first verse makes it feel like another verse. (Am I the only one that hears this stuff, or should I just get with the program and praise everything LOL)”
You’re partly right. The melody structure of the verse is more compelling and unique than the melody structure of the chorus. But I find no confusion over which is which. Nor do I see a need to ditch this chorus and write a new one that outshines the verse.
“Here's something: I don't care if it's just for whoever-every song you write deserves your best effort.”
You appear to know better than I do what I am capable of and how hard I try when I write a song. I always put forward my best effort and an extensive time commitment. I find your comment to be presumptuous and offensive – and belying your closing words “Best,-Mike”.
“I feel you're actually making the melody suffer by singing and playing at the same time....”
I’m not quite sure what your suggestion implies other than get a better vocalist. I would love to have a voice as good as many members here but as Leonard Cohen said “I was born with the gift of a golden voice”. I’m not in a position to enlist better singers. Given that I’m on my own in this endeavour, are you saying the song would be improved by replacing my vocal melody line with a synth flute or some other musical instrument i.e. turning the song into an instrumental ? If that’s your intent then I disagree. Having said that, I would be open to you writing a better lyric to my music, and improving the melody/chord structure of the chorus and singing it better. And I would be ready to compensate you for a successfully result if you required it. That kind of constructive critique I would value.
I went back a few years in the archives of this forum looking for an example of your song writing and performing. Perhaps you can link me to a couple of your own songs that best illustrate my shortcomings.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2
Top 500 Poster
|
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2 |
I like your attitude-it shows a lot of passion; perhaps misdirected, but still passion. I could argue back and forth but it doesn't accomplish anything. (Anyone that's frequented any songwriting board can attest to that) I think it's only fair to remind you that this is a feedback forum. Sometimes we don't care for the feedback. Please ignore my previous post and we'll go with this: Great song! Best -Mike
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
OK
I have no problem dealing with critical feedback as my reply above illustrates. I do have a problem when someone impugns my commitment to doing the best I can when I write a song. I assume everyone here has put in his/her best effort before posting a song.
And I can withdraw my request for links to a couple of your songs. I just listened to Daddy-o and LIES.
Best -Mike
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Casual Observer
|
Casual Observer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 3 |
I don't care with all of critics about your song I just listen and I enjoy with your song, Mike
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
I don't care with all of critics about your song I just listen and I enjoy with your song, Mike Thank you for your positive words. I appreciate you giving the song a listen.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,143 Likes: 26
Top 200 Poster
|
Top 200 Poster
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,143 Likes: 26 |
Mike, I think 9ne could probably have expressed himself better and I have no idea what he actually means by "I feel you're actually making the melody suffer by singing and playing at the same time...." Having said that, I actually take it as a compliment when someone offers feedback, even critical feedback on one of my songs. Without that honesty, there's not a lot of point in the exercise. I think you just need to let 9ne say what he thinks, assess each point to see if it gives you ideas for improvements, and, if not, move past it. Criticisms can be right or wrong (subjectively, of course) and they can also be valid without having to be followed. Your lyric does wander a bit. I have a song like that and received the same criticism. I saw the critic's point, but decided to leave the song as it was, because I felt it still worked and, more importantly, so did others who reviewed it. I also wasn't able to think of a way of changing it that wouldn't destroy other things that were good about it. I still appreciated the comment though. I've also had the same comment about the chorus in one of my songs. On that occasion, I did change the song and the result was a big improvement. Maybe you could add emphasis to the transition between verse and chorus by simply adding "And you know that..." before the chorus and singing a little louder there. Or going up instead of down at the end of the first line. I think we all need a thick skin and the ability to view feedback dispassionately without taking it personally, asking... Does he have a point? If I follow his advice, will it improve my song? Having said all that, of course, I'm as fond as anyone of a slap on the back and "Great song." Encouragement is also an important part of being here.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thanks Gavin
While it's not pleasant to have aspects of a song criticized, I can handle that without getting defensive, aggressive or personal - as I think my earlier post indicates.
Where I did get my back up was his notion "every song you write deserves your best effort" implying that I didn't try hard enough or keep at it long enough. I've re-read his posts and I still feel he was patronizing.
I like your comments about the lyric wandering but I would describe it as a non-linear lyric. For decades non-linear lyrics have coexisted with story line lyrics and lyrics focused on a single person. Some of my favorite popular songs are non-linear. Having said that, it's very possible that my lyrics won't sit well with listeners who do enjoy popular non-linear songs.
That's an excellent suggestion for transitioning to the chorus. I'm playing the song at my first songwriters circle next Sunday. I'll incorporate your approach into my rehearsal process this week.
Mike
Last edited by mikegouthro; 07/16/18 01:06 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Gavin
I just tried your suggested line "and you know that'. It works beautifully, bridging the verse to the chorus more effectively and more fun to sing. Thank you Gavin and thanks to 9ne for initiating the conversation and pointing out the verse/chorus possibilities.
I'll do my best to stay more positive going forward.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 187
Serious Contributor
|
Serious Contributor
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 187 |
Really enjoyed that. The melody in particular drew me in, especially the chorus. The bones of the song are sound.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thank you Owen. I'm particularly happy that the melody works. It is always fun to sing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
If anyone is willing to once again check out the typed lyric in my first post in this thread, I have inserted a new first verse to replace the original. I was always bothered by the conflict of listener vs lover in the original verse. I also winced a little at the original line "and here's what we should do". I've added Gavin's suggested bridging line to the chorus.
Any comments on the old versus the new first verse would be greatly appreciated - as would any other suggestions to improve the other verses. This revised version is what I will perform at my first songwriters' circle this Sunday.
Thanks..........Mike
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2
Top 500 Poster
|
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2 |
I thought the new 1V was a much better fit. I kept reading the first line and wondered why it bothered me and then I realized it's because I've most often heard "hurt" without the "feelin". Suggestion? If you see some hurt, some sadness in her eyes.
Best -Mike
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
I thought the new 1V was a much better fit. I kept reading the first line and wondered why it bothered me and then I realized it's because I've most often heard "hurt" without the "feelin". Suggestion? If you see some hurt, some sadness in her eyes.
Best -Mike
That's excellent. Thank you. And I apologize for my aggressive response to your earlier posts. Without your input and Gavin's I'd still have a lesser song.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2
Top 500 Poster
|
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,035 Likes: 2 |
Very kind of you to say but, really, you did the heavy lifting.. My apology also; I appear to have misinterpreted some things you'd said, and, ( as our wise friend Gavin pointed out) I could have explained myself in a clearer manner. I don't comment on something, (usually) if I don't like it. Keep up the good work, and best of luck on your upcoming circle!
Best -Mike
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 1
Top 10 Poster
|
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 1 |
Cool to see a video Man, this is perfect - it doesn't need any more production or bells and whistles. Your finger-picking is the perfect accompaniment. And your vocal is nicely suited to the song. Great message too! Scott
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thank you Scott
And thanks for the finger picking observation. Generally I'm more comfortable with my guitar parts than I am with my singing.
I did this song on Sunday at my first songwriters' circle - and got through it OK. First time in 45 years I've performed solo to a group of strangers - most of them relative youngsters compared to me. I'm going to seek out a few open mic opportunities.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,385 Likes: 1
Top 200 Poster
|
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,385 Likes: 1 |
Mike,
I’m late to the game on this one—but love this song and performance (great guitar playing). You’ve got a really sweet and smooth voice that makes this tune really chill on the ear. Enjoyed my listen a lot. BTW, the shirt and the shades—very cool!
All the best
Deej
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
Thank you Deej
I appreciate your comments about my voice - an area of insecurity for me. Thanks for the shirt and shades comment. I've received some ribbing from friends about that in the past - all in good fun. Being flashy is not in my comfort zone - so it was fun to step out a bit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,125 Likes: 29
Top 100 Poster
|
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,125 Likes: 29 |
An anthem for life's simple pleasures. Nice song Mike.
Martin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Serious Contributor
|
OP
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102 |
|
|
|
We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.
|
|
Forums117
Topics125,714
Posts1,160,942
Members21,470
|
Most Online37,523 Jan 25th, 2020
|
|
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
|