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Mutlu
by Gary E. Andrews - 04/15/24 07:08 PM
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Leafs
by Gary E. Andrews - 04/05/24 01:49 PM
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I wrote about this once before. I have songs up on CCLI which licenses churches to use the music they play and sing in church services. Well the US government take 30% tax off the top of any earnings I get, which hurts, seeing I am not a US citizen, so I have no way of claiming any of it back. I am a Canadian citizen. so I have to show this earnings and pay tax again. As my earning go up, which they are, so does the tax cut. First it was only a few dollars, now it is getting into the hundreds of dollars, so that stings. First I only had about 80 songs registered but now I'm well past the 300 mark and rising. So are the earnings and taxes.
There is suppose to be a way so I am taxed at a lower rate by the US government, but I'm no accountant so I don't know how to put that in place. Any suggestions?
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Everett,
It is one of those hard deals about dealing with multiple govt. entities. You are going to have to deal with different tax rates, laws, regulations. Just part of all of this. There are so many roadblocks to success in anything with music, there is always something new to peel back. Sorry you are going through it. Happens to us in other governments as well. In larger sense, it is part of what goes through in all these International trade negotiations, International intellectual property disputes, issues between governments, ranging from smaller things all the way up to illegal immigration, protecting borders, International terrorism, etc.
When we all got "worldwide connected" through the Internet, we were able to have platforms all over the globe. Bu with that comes all kinds of taxes, laws and regulations.
My guess is that you are probably just going to have to deal with it. Sorry. Hope you are well.
MAB
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Well, I am no Tax Lawyer and I don't play one on T.V. but you may want to find a Tax Lawyer, in Canada and explain your dilemma to him and see what, if anything can be done.
Ray E. Strode
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Thanks guy. Because earnings are made in foreign countries to where you live, I believe there is a receptacle agreements between countries where there is a lover rate charged to citizens of another country so they won't be unfairly taxed. 30% is probably what millionaires will pay on their earnings, plus what they pay to their State. If I pay that to them, then pay even the lowest rate to the Canadian government, plus what I pay to my province, I will be taxed higher than Bill Gates. Seems unfair to me. But at least my songs are being heard, that gives me some satisfaction.
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Everett,
That is sort of the way it always is. Large companies or wealthy people can afford attorneys that can find all the in's and out's of legal wrangling and loopholes. Of course, they are also dealing with A LOT MORE MONEY and usually have a much bigger effect on the economies. When you are a large corporation that employs thousands of workers, creates economic activity, real estate prices, local, regional National and International effects, you are going to get more benefits, because of all the people you affect.
Songwriters are small businesses. Each one of us is our own little company. But we also only affect the economic situation of us. Unless you are writing for a publishing company, have record deals or something that employs people and creating economic activity for other people, you are not going to be generating that much in the way of income. You are only really bringing it to one person. You.
So fairly or unfairly, they are trying to tax anything the Govt, feels entitled to. "Render to Ceasar, that which is Ceasar's" I've heard it said before.
What you are dealing with essentially is COST OF DOING BUSINESS. And as you say, your songs ARE getting heard, which to me, should be the most important thing. It is one of the things that is difficult when you look at music saying :"hat is it worth?"
When you figure out the years you took to learn how to do what you do, the money you spent taking lessons or developing your songs, the money it takes to register, get them notated, recorded, presented how ever you need them for you, then things like publishing, copyrights, promotion etc. Not to mention what you TAKE AWAY from other things like life, your bills, your job, time with family, friends, social things, you realize you spend a lot for your dream/hobby.
So I'd say the fact that you are touching many lives in Churches, in emotional and faith based pay offs, that has to be factored into what you get back verses what you put in.
Sounds like a pretty good trade to me.
MAB
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Thanks guy. Because earnings are made in foreign countries to where you live, I believe there is a receptacle agreements between countries where there is a lover rate charged to citizens of another country so they won't be unfairly taxed. 30% is probably what millionaires will pay on their earnings, plus what they pay to their State. If I pay that to them, then pay even the lowest rate to the Canadian government, plus what I pay to my province, I will be taxed higher than Bill Gates. Seems unfair to me. But at least my songs are being heard, that gives me some satisfaction. Sorry Everett, I just wondered how much the 'where there is a lover rate charged to citizens of another country' is God Bless Roy and Helen
Last edited by Roy Cooper; 06/07/18 02:46 PM.
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Thanks guy. Because earnings are made in foreign countries to where you live, I believe there is a receptacle agreements between countries where there is a lover rate charged to citizens of another country so they won't be unfairly taxed. 30% is probably what millionaires will pay on their earnings, plus what they pay to their State. If I pay that to them, then pay even the lowest rate to the Canadian government, plus what I pay to my province, I will be taxed higher than Bill Gates. Seems unfair to me. But at least my songs are being heard, that gives me some satisfaction. Sorry Everett, I just wondered how much the 'where there is a lover rate charged to citizens of another country' is God Bless Roy and Helen Ha Ha Ha. LOL Thanks Roy. I needed that. A typo no doubt but it is more true than we believe, we are doing it for love most of the time, certainly not money. Thanks Roy for the laugh. Everett
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Marc. You are right, my reward may not be here on earth, it might be in Heaven when I meet people that were so touched by my songs that it led them to seek salvation. I have had feedback from a woman that said her husband got saved by listening to a tape of my gospel songs. Quite the story connected to it. I may tell it here someday if anyone is interested.
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Taxes are always unfair but necessary... except when they "double dip." Remember, our folks back in 1776 (or thereabouts) held a "Tea Party" in Boston because of unfair taxation. The other side of the coin... taxed income is better than no income... and Marc is right. There are other rewards.
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Everett,
I'm sorry to keep riffing on all these things by telling "MAB" stories, but what I try to do is illustrate what I am talking about or my responses to people on these threads. So I apologize but please indulge me. This is what I mean by "touching lives."
About 12 years ago, I was in San Diego California, doing workshops, critique appointments and my "write up" songwriting appointments. These are two hour songwriting lessons, where I sit with the participant and actually write a song from start to finish. One of the appointments this one day (out of four) was a very sweet woman named "Faith." She was in her mid 70's (she made a point of saying this a couple of times.) After talking a little we got down to writing and she talked about wanting to write a song for the current at that time, AMERICAN IDOL show. They were having a song contest, and she had a title "I'm In it to Win it." I had heard that phrase used so many times I was trying to find a way to nicely tell her that it would probably not be a good enough idea to write.
It was a pretty hot day and we were outside, and I kept noticing her scratching her head and when she did, her hair would MOVE. Finally she said "I'm sorry, but my wig is bothering me today." It turned out she had Cancer and was going through Chemo. I said "THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO WRITE ABOUT! NOT A CONTEST! ABOUT LIFE!!!"
And that is just what we did. Over the next hour we wrote up a song about her struggle with a terrible disease and her desire to triumph above it all. And I felt she would. It turned out well, she cried hugged me a lot and was a lot of fun. I did a cassette work tape and promised I would do a better one. A few weeks later before I left California, I did guitar vocal work tapes on the 21 songs I had written and got her a CD for her's. I dropped it in the mail, and didn't think a lot more about it.
About four years ago, I was at home and got a call from a man saying that he was her son. He told me that she had just passed away and they were going through her things and on her bedside, she had the lyrics framed and the CD with her. He said that was one of her proudest things and played it for everyone Her Cancer survivors group, her friends, family, etc. He was thanking me for having done that I said "No. She did that. " And she did.
Yes, Everett, you might get your reward somewhere else, or you might just get it here. I don't know what anyone will ever do, but I think you have to look to whatever victories you can, and must because you don't have some big song on the radio or make a lot of money. You might just be a positive influence to someone's life.
I have been lucky enough to have a lot of these experiences. And if I croaked tomorrow, never wrote another song or just faded out of the business, I can always say that I touched lives.
THAT IS WHY I WRITE SONGS. MAB
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God is always listening to our Songs and HE is proud of us.
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