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Joined: May 2001
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Aw,Humm,
Back to the original post. Since practically nobody is taking any outside songs and there is nothing of note happening in Nashville, Read That Nobody is Recording much of anything so it may be time to postpone Registering any Copyrights until the scene gets better. Keep creating as you see fit but relax on Registering your Copyrights.

They are starting to re-produce Vinyl in limited copies but the cost is pretty high.

So Marc, you used to play some songs from the 50's. So what song or songs from the 50's stands out for you?


Ray E. Strode
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Aw,Humm,
Back to the original post. Since practically nobody is taking any outside songs and there is nothing of note happening in Nashville, Read That Nobody is Recording much of anything so it may be time to postpone Registering any Copyrights until the scene gets better. Keep creating as you see fit but relax on Registering your Copyrights.

They are starting to re-produce Vinyl in limited copies but the cost is pretty high.

So Marc, you used to play some songs from the 50's. So what song or songs from the 50's stands out for you?



Aw, Humm
If I was you Ray, I wouldn't take the song on either. Its' merit is inarguable, unless, someone needs to believe that it is not and does so in the face of it.

Now, back to the original post...

Martin

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"So Marc, you used to play some songs from the 50's. So what song or songs from the 50's stands out for you?"

Ray, in 40 plus years of doing music before the public, it probably would be easier to ask what I've NOT done musically. Starting out in grade school in the 7th and 8th grade, we used to do "DOO WOP" songs of the Penguins, the Platters, The Glow tones (Great Pretender was always a huge favorite, UP ON THE ROOF, UNDER THE BOARDWALK ). We did talent shows before we knew how to play instruments. Pretty much anything by Ray Charles would stand out for me from that era. But Ray even said at the beginning he was just trying to parrot NAT KING COLE.
And in reading a LOT of biographies, of Tin Pan Alley, the songwriters, Lieber and Stoller, Carol King, and others talked about how when some new hit song came out they would PURPOSELY write other songs exactly like them.
That was the idea of writing for publishers:

"THIS ONE IS ON THE RADIO.... GET ME MORE JUST LIKE THAT!!!"

Starting in 54' ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK from Bill Haley and the Coments ushered in the three chord rock and roll song. Everything from Chuck Berry, I've played mostly. Elvis, Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, Big Bopper, the Four Seasons, Jerry Lee Lewis, again, there is not a lot that I "HAVEN'T PLAYED.' Last year I actually did a anniversery party for a couple's 60th anniversery. I put a medly together of 32 songs, starting in 1952 (when they started dating and got married in 54') up until the mid 80's. All of them were songs I had done over the years.

I also used to do a little game/test, when I would play long three hour sets. I would ask members of the audience, what year they graduated high school. That gave me a four year time frame where I could come up with something from their lives. I never missed.

A lot of the songs are exactly the same chord structure and many are the same melodies. If you want to hear how REALLY close they can be, put ELVIS PRESLEY'S "THAT'S ALL RIGHT MAMA. from 1954, his first big hit) to
"CC RYDER" from 1968. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME SONG.

Moving forward, I really came to age in 1974, where I started "OFFICIALLY" playing music in a formal band. The rest was sitting around jamming in living rooms, in our shop class, around the old burning trash can. We shifted into guitars then and I did most all the radio songs of the 70's and many from the 60's then.

As my career brought me to Nashville, I met writers of many of those songs who always talked of "stealing from themselves" in songs. If they had a hit on one, they would write another one that was very close, yet changed just enough to be a different song. They made no bones about. Just something you would do.

In some of the late night guitar pulls of Willie Nelson, Harland Howard, Kris Kristofferson, Roger Miller, they would openly talk of "borrowing from each other" all the time.

I am very fond of every era of music. Have played a lot of them and still listen to a lot of that music.

The current book I'm reading is called "THAT SWEET SOUL MUSIC" by Peter Curalnick. It tells the story of the "Memphis sound, Muscle Shoals, Stax records, on into the 70's of rock in the Shoals area. IT is a great book that tells the history of Southern Soul music.

In my new CD I cover one of the best known songs from that era, "TRY A LITTLE TENDERNESS" by Otis Redding. Although I didn't learn the song from Otis. I learned it from THREE DOG NIGHT, who learned it from OTIS.

So yeah, I've done more than a few songs from the 50's.

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"Back to the original post. Since practically nobody is taking any outside songs and there is nothing of note happening in Nashville, Read That Nobody is Recording much of anything so it may be time to postpone Registering any Copyrights until the scene gets better."

Ray, that is always one of the funniest things you ever say and I hear you say it over and over. It gets funnier every time you say it. If nothing is happening in Nashville, please tell that to the half million people descending on the town this week during CMA fan Fest. Because we can't get a hotel room in the town, can't drive because of all the traffic and don't DARE go down town in fear of being trampled by tourists.
And tell that to all the television shows, awards shows, major tours, major product being released and our respective bank balances, because the IRS sure believes there's quite a BIT GOING on in Nashville. AS well as all the new building going on.
Since they are expecting our population to DOUBLE in five years and 600 people a week are moving to town, please tell them nothing is happening in Nashville so we can get back to normal.

Actually, business is BOOMING here. And if you look, it's booming pretty much everywhere in this country. Not a bad time to be alive actually.

There are just not any OUTSIDE songs being recorded because the insiders are spending enormous money, time, political capital, and years of preparation to build their own empires. They craft what THEY want and THEY need. Why do you need to go outside if you already have more than you can even do with what you have?

So yes, there's plenty going on. Or we have a LOT OF PEOPLE FOOLED.

MAB

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MAB - "I never care too much for the "business" part of the "music business." All of these legal things going on are simply more roadblocks that come into the modern world of doing things. The copyright issue is just one more"

Every post you make is about the business, its dead but its not, it makes money but it doesnt, this is the way, no, this is the way.
I have never seen you post a song, or anything about the creative process or writing/recording music lolll

Or did u throw a tune up on top there a while ago, i never got around to listening

But you are interesting to read

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I got the best copyright case yet... John Fogerty against.... himself


John Fogerty vs. Creedence Clearwater Revival (1985)

"The Old Man Down the Road," by John Fogerty (1985) vs. "Run Through the Jungle," by Creedence Clearwater Revival (1970)

The Case: Fogerty's 1972 split with his Creedence Clearwater Revival bandmates and their label, Fantasy Records, was so acrimonious that Fogerty refused to perform songs from his former group for 15 years. When he released his chart-topping solo disc Centerfield in 1985, Fantasy filed a lawsuit claiming that the lead single, "The Old Man Down the Road" stole from "Run Through the Jungle," a song he wrote and recorded with Creedence Clearwater Revival in 1970.

The Verdict: Bringing his guitar to the courtroom witness stand, Fogerty ably demonstrated that the two songs were in fact different compositions. The judge ruled in his favor in 1994, and he countersued Fantasy Records president Saul Zaentz to recoup his legal costs. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court before Fogerty won and was awarded coverage for his fees in both cases.

Why It Matters: In addition to the sheer novelty of being sued for sounding too much like oneself, Fogerty's countersuit became a precedent-setting Supreme Court case that regulates how attorney fees are paid out to artists in copyright cases.

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Fdemetrio (I really wish you would sign your name so I'd know who I am talking to.)

I don't post a lot of songs over here for some very specific reasons. (I just posted one for Memorial day called 24 NOTES) and posted the lyrics, the video, the audio and the background about the song, the organization it benefits. So you might have missed it, but I did do that.

All the songs I write are done in conjunction with my TEACHING methods, which are on my songwriter tours of Nashville, long distance co-writes, Skype sessions, or private appointments. It is mostly for the benefit of OTHER songwriters and artists and THEY are the ones that have first shot at promoting them. Many publishers and record labels do not want a bunch of songs out there if they are interested in releasing it or getting it cut. So I have to be careful what I put up on sites as it might be involved in some form of legal deal with someone else.

I DON'T post things for comment or critique, simply because by the time I've recorded and posted something. I am past the point of getting reviews. I have professional publishers and hit writers I run things by to get feedback on most of the songs I write and there are various stages that I go through,often back and forth with other people before I get to a "posting" stage. So I'm not trolling for opinion.

Over the years I have posted quite a few songs and the process behind them. But they are almost always in reference to a post or thread someone else has done on certain subjects. If I wanted to post actual songs, they would have to buy additional space, because I have over 3000 from 2003, many more before that and two more from this weekend alone. But no one wants to deal with that. I DON'T even want to deal with that. I just don't post them on LYRIC or SONG threads.

My songs are mostly on my web site, www.marcalanbarnette.com for download or listening and I have seven CD's with many songs on them. If someone wants what I do, they can get it.

I talk about "business, here because I am RESPONDING to what people are talking about. I rarely open threads and when I do, they often have to do with another subject going on here. What I am trying to do is "FLIP THE DESK". IF you or anyone, wants to discuss the creative process, follow through, presentation, networking I would MUCH rather do that than things like this Copyright silliness. I only cover what people are already talking about.

The majority of people out there are trying to find inroads into the professional music business. I understand both of those sides and generally operate in both worlds. I am like most everyone else, a writer and singer trying to get and keep attention. But I also am very much involved with the professional side of the business with hit writers, publishers, producers, label people. I'm involved with a LOT of conversations because we all cross paths a lot. So I get a sense of what THEY think about certain issues and I try to bring that side of things.

I am NOT an expert, yet I am educated in certain ways, that people refer to here and ask questions or ask for comments on. A majority has to do with the business, or elements of Nashville or places that I personally know about.

I don't ever talk about things that I have no personal experience in and I am only giving my OPINION and PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND PERSPECTIVE WITH.

It is worth EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT. Like all information, find what works for you, ignore the rest. That's why they made the "SCROLL button."

MAB

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Marc, oh I know you are speaking from experience, but you do contradict yourself quite a bit on various topics.

I'm with ya, I like music.

I doubt anybody here is REALLY seeking entry into the music business, particularly retirees, who do not have the drive or the will to pursue anything.

There may be people reading from afar who sift through the fodder here.

There is no money to be made in songwriting, can we come to understanding on that? I doubt u disagree.






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Well the world is full of contradictions, but I don't exactly know how I'm contradicting myself. It is a very normal thing for creators to NOT like the BUSINESS SIDE of music. That is now where we are geared and why there are BUSINESS MANGERS, PERSONAL MANAGERS, LAWYERS AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO HANDLE THAT SIDE OF IT. And a LOT of BAD DEALS, BAD CONTRACTS and BAD CAREER MOVES. It is very hard to find any artist, group or band that HASN'T made them.

Again, I only RESPOND to what others talk about while using my experience or sometimes songs as an example of how I (AND ONLY ME) deal with certain situations. This thread is one of those.

Here is the backgrounds. Here is what we are up against. Here is how professionals deal with it. The pros and cons. And why there is likely to be no solution.

The actual reason I do this as detailed as I do, is because there ARE people from afar who use what I write as a guide for themselves. There have been many times that I have sat down with someone booking me, and they have an entire binder full of things I have written that they have printed out. So it does come in handy.

The fact that there IS NO MONEY in all of this, is what I have attempted to say over and over throughout my involvement in this and any other sites.

Every thing in the pursuit of music, COSTS MONEY. If you want to take lessons, buy instruments, learn to do this, YOU ARE SPENDING MONEY.
If you get into bands, live performance, doing anything that gets you "out there".
YOU ARE SPENDING MONEY.

IF you are recording, whether you are paying for a recording session or buying equipment, programs, etc.
YOU ARE SPENDING MONEY.

If you are getting education, traveling to other music cities, performing out, building reputation.
YOU ARE SPENDING MONEY.

If you REALLY make a run at it go for New York, Nashville, LA, Paris, London, Toronto, etc. (Music Centers)
YOU ARE SPENDING MORE MONEY.

If you are accessing Internet sites, film and television libraries, song-pluggers,
YOU ARE SPENDING MONEY.

And if you are LAUNCHING YOURSELF OR OTHERS in a MAJOR WAY,
YOU ARE SPENDING A GOD AWFUL AMOUNT OF MONEY.

You just have to decide how much you are going to spend and whether your return is worth the out put. And HOW you spend that money.

But you are going to SPEND MONEY.

That is a given.
MAB

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I agree, and with the money u spend on pursuing a career, u may need the hit to pay off what u spent.

Average hit pays a songwriter, at least in the old paradigm, 50-100k for the hit.

Statisically speaking, there are far better prospects of making 50k than trying to do this.

You could buy out a failing music store, and then resell everything.

I used to work in a guitar shop and thats what the owner of the shop used to do. Hed read papers and see ads for stores going out of business.

Then hed grab 4 -5 of us, throw us in his moving truck, and hed go in, tell the guy ill give u x amount of dollars for everything u got here. 9-10 the guy would take it cause he just wants an out. SO then wed load up the truck, take everything back, and wed spend the next 6 months polishing drums, stringing guitars, fixing tuners and bridges, having pianos tuned, shining cymbals so they look brand new. Wed bring home hundreds of low key brand guitars in a clip and fix them up and sell them for decent beginner guitar prices

But that old goat taught me alot about buying and selling. He probably made more doing that than he did selling new stuff, and he probably made more than a hit song made in one year

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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I agree, and with the money u spend on pursuing a career, u may need the hit to pay off what u spent.

Average hit pays a songwriter, at least in the old paradigm, 50-100k for the hit.

Statisically speaking, there are far better prospects of making 50k than trying to do this.

You could buy out a failing music store, and then resell everything.

I used to work in a guitar shop and thats what the owner of the shop used to do. Hed read papers and see ads for stores going out of business.

Then hed grab 4 -5 of us, throw us in his moving truck, and hed go in, tell the guy ill give u x amount of dollars for everything u got here. 9-10 the guy would take it cause he just wants an out. SO then wed load up the truck, take everything back, and wed spend the next 6 months polishing drums, stringing guitars, fixing tuners and bridges, having pianos tuned, shining cymbals so they look brand new. Wed bring home hundreds of low key brand guitars in a clip and fix them up and sell them for decent beginner guitar prices

But that old goat taught me alot about buying and selling. He probably made more doing that than he did selling new stuff, and he probably made more than a hit song made in one year



Although I think many musicians are buying equipment online at Musician Friend, Sweetwater Sound, eBay, etc... That's why these old music stores are going out of business.

John :

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Yeah John, this was in the 90's before the net. The game has changed, but the principle is still the same.

The guy is in his 90's, still running the same shop. Still doing business the same way. There are always kids wanting to buy guitars, and they still need their dad to sign the check

He could take the same concept to ebay and such, but dont think hes interested.

Its funny i drive by the shop and i can still see drums he was trying to sell inside the display windows...he never threw a single thing out.."somebody will buy it"

Hes sharp enough to open shop every day but i ran into him at the mall a few years ago, he didnt seem like he knew where he was let alone, knew me.

But he was known as being the guy who dealed in [naughty word removed], whereas sam ashe and others were dealing the top stuff, he was focusing on the newbies. He had wealth from many sources too

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"Although I think many musicians are buying equipment online at Musician Friend, Sweetwater Sound, eBay, etc... That's why these old music stores are going out of business."

John :

John, actually that's partially true. The real story is that more and more people are buying ONLINE instead of brick and mortar stores. They save money, and in some instances, state taxes. So they are choosing to shop online and buy from there instead. Same as the shopping malls.

Then, there is another aspect that I have just heard about that is interesting .There have been reports that GUITAR sales have been HUGELY OFF over the past few years. This, with Gibson going bankrupt and more and more kids coming that DON'T play an instrument, using computers to create everything, and things like GUITAR HERO, and ROCK STAR games, taking the place of actually LEARNING how to do any of this. There are even radio commercials from actors like Jeff Daniels and Jack Black encouraging people to learn to play an instrument.

Then a recent report is that sales are ACTUALLY UP for certain brands. And of course, Gibson guitars are actually not the problem .It is electronics they got into that turned out to be a money loser. They are still selling as many guitars as they can make. So the bankruptcy is actually to just reoganize and get rid of some dead weight.

So I think it is an ebb and flow thing. Many of the "old mom and pop" music stores, have gone out of business, and even some of the big "major chain stores" have been having problems. But overall, music equipment sales are still quite healthy.
People are just finding different ways to get what they want.

THE INTERNET STRIKES AGAIN.

MAB

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Dave,
You are a genius! You got the board moving again. I got MAB all fired up posting contradictions all over the place! Am I good or what! I asked Marc what country song from the 50's stood out for him. Well it's been a long time so I will help him out a bit.

So Marc, what Country song was at the top of the charts in England the longest? OK, give up? It was ROSE MARIE by Slim Whitman.
Google it and take a listen. And then tell me if it sounds anything like LIVE FAST, LOVE HARD, and DIE YOUNG by Faron Young. or I'VE FORGOTTEN MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW by the Davis Sisters. All those songs you mentioned up above were not Country. And I do have ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK by Bill Haley and the Comets.
One more time, when I saw there is nothing of note going on in Nashville I am talking about Artists/Labels in the Recording Studio preparing something for release. So prove me wrong. I contact people all the time pitching my material. I hear nothing.
When those people come to town and you help them write songs do you also tell them their chances of getting anything placed is nil? That's what you have said, more than once. Well I agree with you unfortunately.

You need to listen to that song by Hank Thompson and Junior Brown GOTTA SELL THEM CHICKENS. Geronimo!


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As long as there are girls, there will be boys buying guitars trying to impress them. As long as there are stars, there will be people trying to be like them.

That won't change no matter how we communicate

I think beginners need to see a guitar and feel it before they can dream it.

Savvy vets can buy stuff online without seeing it, but not dad buying for junior

When I go to guitar center, I still see a lot of customers walking around, to me the difference is the salesmanship. You got kids who can't play working there. I remember a time when music store workers were real musicians gigging at night, now they are college students making a buck

Customer service has gone out the window as well. Many times I have to climb a ladder myself to pull a guitar down, and find my own plug and jack to use.




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Music Stores do have a purpose. Customers can try-out equipment before purchasing online. LOL

John smile

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Precisely John...

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Our nearest Guitar Center is in a high-class area of Ft. Worth (about 60 miles away) and the next available option is a Half-Box Guitar Center in Waco. Both are nice, clean, reasonably well-stocked but FD is correct. The turnover of staff is mind-boggling... and most know diddly about the products they have on the floor or shelves. Except for the guitar department and the musical knick-knack stuff, the rest of the staff are filling space, looking at the clock or doing their best to look busy. The Keyboard Department is where I spend most of my time and not one high-end Arranger is there 90% of the time. Sure, they have the cheap stuff or those electric pianos that require real talent (like John) to play but I want to get my hands on the new Yamaha Genos... or the PSR-S975 Arranger.

Oh well, that's life in West Mayberry.

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Ray, you didn't ASK anything about "country songs" from the 50's. I wasn't into any country songs in the 50's because that wasn't what I was around. I've played some Hank Williams but that is about it. Not my era or my interest. And certainly there is NOTHING from Slim Whitman, that would ever hold my attention. The only thing ever interesting about ol' Slim would be in the movie "ATTACK FROM MARS" where his voice blew the heads up of the attacking Martians.

But as usual, I answered your question, "what songs from the 50's stood out?" and as usual you ignore what I said.

As far as what I tell people when I work with them ,you BET I tell them the truth. I explain the entire industry, background, how we got here and how it affects them. If I am able to dissuade them from participating, they weren't cut out for this in the first place. But most inject their lives with common sense and are a little more educated as to what they spend their money on.

And if you don't know anything coming out of Nashville you are so far removed from reality I could tell you anything and you are not going to buy it. We call your type "NASH-BASHERS: and those are only people to be ignored. I don't ignore you, but I probably should. There;s not a lot of upside or education in going around in non-sensical circles that mean nothing.

John, that is exactly what they do. People visit music stores to try out new equipment then buy it online. Having bought three guitars in the past year, I'm not one of those people apparently.

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Marc, maybe the question is WHY are you in NASHVILLE?

Are you making a living as a songwriter?

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Because I've been here thirty years, my kids and family here and the music industry that I have been a part of from all that time is here. Yes, I make a living as a songwriter, a teacher, mentor, personal consultant and trainer for songwriters. I also am paid to perform, to produce sessions, to facilitate progressions in the careers of others.
I'm not concerned with HITS, because I am not constrained by the whims of the music industry, which go up and down. I have no outstanding contracts, no money I owe to anyone. "Hits' are simply a word that doesn't have the same connotations as it once did.

And there are almost NO songwriters that are ONLY songwriters. They are also talent developers, producers, publishers, record label, heads, teachers, professors, and owners of other businesses, construction businesses, plumbing, electrical contractors, property owners, real estate people.

One of the "Eye opening" things that happened to me when I first moved to town and started working with very successful writers. Almost NONE of them existed only on their songwriting royalties. EVERYONE did other things, aside from "just being a writer." Now a writer wears multiple hats, because that is what it takes to keep anything going. You have a number of businesses to fund your passion because even if you do get lucky, it is generally short lived, and many times the money you make is already owed to other entities.

It's the real world. Not television.
MAB

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That's been my observations as well. Anybody I know, that are still calling themselves musicians for a living are doing various things to make a living.

But I don't think that's makes them pro musicians, it makes them guys who cant survive on 100 dollar gigs, three times a month.

If they throw songwriter onto their business card, they will be no more a songwriter than somebody else living in Alaska, Wyoming, etc

Your in Nashville by geography, not by career, unless I'm mistaken?

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Marc:

You cut me to the bone... poking fun at Slim Whitman... and my pal Ray! Ray lives over there in God's Country near the Marshes of Glynn and Saint Simon's Island. Good old Brunswick. I was stationed there briefly one summer when the Navy had an Airstrip, Blimp Base and Training School for Combat Information Center Aviators and Airmen. I never met Ray but understand his frustration with "the Biz... and Nashville. (I lived and worked there, too... after the Navy)

Before I forget, "Thanks, Ray for the genius accolade"... but we both know I didn't do well in school!

Anyway, Marc... when we spend all that time and effort (even money) and can't get a nibble from anyone honest in Twang-Town... it becomes a "love/hate" relationship. So... we spout off, get rid of pent up emotions... but if a contract should be dangled in front of our noses (after legal perusal) we'd probably do cartwheels and take our wives out to dinner at the Dixie Diner. LOL!

I completely understand the message you deliver... over and over and over... (I told you we are slow learners) and I even detect hidden bitterness in your "unsaid emotions" about the way things are today in "The Biz." It's okay! We all feel it. So... we "soldier on"... victims of our own love for music creation and all the ten tons of stuff that goes with this extremely limited territory. Thanks for lending us your leather couch... and remember that oath of secrecy you took when you decided to be our Psychologist. Some day before the "Reaper" calls to collect my rotten bones, I hope to be able to see you again (Remember the NSAI event in Marshall, Texas) and buy you a beverage of your choosing.

You are one heck-of-a-good sport... and we appreciate all you (and Brian) do for us. Knowledge is Power... I'm told. ----Dave

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Because I've been here thirty years, my kids and family here and the music industry that I have been a part of from all that time is here. Yes, I make a living as a songwriter, a teacher, mentor, personal consultant and trainer for songwriters. I also am paid to perform, to produce sessions, to facilitate progressions in the careers of others.
I'm not concerned with HITS, because I am not constrained by the whims of the music industry, which go up and down. I have no outstanding contracts, no money I owe to anyone. "Hits' are simply a word that doesn't have the same connotations as it once did.

And there are almost NO songwriters that are ONLY songwriters. They are also talent developers, producers, publishers, record label, heads, teachers, professors, and owners of other businesses, construction businesses, plumbing, electrical contractors, property owners, real estate people.

One of the "Eye opening" things that happened to me when I first moved to town and started working with very successful writers. Almost NONE of them existed only on their songwriting royalties. EVERYONE did other things, aside from "just being a writer." Now a writer wears multiple hats, because that is what it takes to keep anything going. You have a number of businesses to fund your passion because even if you do get lucky, it is generally short lived, and many times the money you make is already owed to other entities.

It's the real world. Not television.
MAB



Well Dave.

That post is the "pay-off" for all of the other stuff that you caused to bubble up here. wink
Even makes up for Ray and all his old calcified ramblings. wink

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Hey Martin:

Just call me "the Bubble Machine"... LOL! I suppose I am sort of an old geezer turned trouble-maker! It isn't intentional... just "hardening of the arteries"... as the medical profession in these parts used to say!

Since I'm now retired... I can argue another point with Marc. I get to be practically a full time song-writer after I've done all my chores, fed the chickens, milked that old cow, gone down to the town square bakery and watched the dough rise then play chess twice weekly... LOL! West Mayberry is a wonderful place. The River alone makes it worth it.

Ray is gonna get a chuckle from your "calcified ramblings" phrase. I suspect that same expression could apply to me... and deservedly so. But heck, we are all fighting boredom and JPF is the perfect place for pulling each other's chains.

Be safe on the highways... and please wear a helmet. This area is a popular ride for bikers from Dallas and Fort Worth... and our little hospital handles bikers with head injuries all the time.

Later, my friend, ----Dave

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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Hey Martin:

Just call me "the Bubble Machine"... LOL! I suppose I am sort of an old geezer turned trouble-maker! It isn't intentional... just "hardening of the arteries"... as the medical profession in these parts used to say!

Since I'm now retired... I can argue another point with Marc. I get to be practically a full time song-writer after I've done all my chores, fed the chickens, milked that old cow, gone down to the town square bakery and watched the dough rise then play chess twice weekly... LOL! West Mayberry is a wonderful place. The River alone makes it worth it.

Ray is gonna get a chuckle from your "calcified ramblings" phrase. I suspect that same expression could apply to me... and deservedly so. But heck, we are all fighting boredom and JPF is the perfect place for pulling each other's chains.

Be safe on the highways... and please wear a helmet. This area is a popular ride for bikers from Dallas and Fort Worth... and our little hospital handles bikers with head injuries all the time.

Later, my friend, ----Dave


Thanks Dave.

I'm a full-face helmet wearer. Jacket with pads. Blue jeans with pads and kevlar.

Question
Do you know the difference between a motorcycle rider who wears a helmet and one who doesn't?

Answer
Open casket funeral. ;(

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More truth than poetry there, Martin:

One of my former golfing buddies has a nephew whose crash and head injuries (on his Motorcycle) had him "laid up" in an almost vegetative state for nearly three years. Ouch!

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"Your in Nashville by geography, not by career, unless I'm mistaken?"- Fdementrio

I'm in Nashville very much by career. I had a twelve year rock career in Birmingham, Al. in the 70's and 80's. We won a major Nationwide contest sponsored by MCA records and Miller Beer in 1984, and tgen as most contest winners do, toured on that for a while then found it was going nowhere, unlike the first runners up from previous years in the same contest, JON BON JOVI and TWISTED SISTER. Contest winners can get trapped into pretty limited record deals. The band did what all bands did, and broke up and I was left with a decision, move to LA or a music center as a next step, since we had done about as much as we could in the south. And the type of music we did, 80's Power pop-rock, changed to the darker, more depressing Seattle Grunge and then hip hop and Rap, so I got out of the rock genre. I didn't leave rock, rock left me.

I met a songwriter named Ron Muir, who taught me the finer points of songwriting for the country market, took me to Nashville, produced my first project and introduced me around. Much of what I do today for others. I got a Shelby Lynne cut my first night in town, and over the years had publishing and record deals, cuts that didn't become singles, performed nationwide and developed a reputation. In 2000, I was asked by members of NSAI (Nashville Songwriter's Association International) to begin mentoring their workshop groups around the country and Canada.
and as I met people around the country, they would come to Nashville and seek out my help in guiding their career.
I was spending so much time doing that, and helping people get solid progress on their careers, a friend suggested that I turn my teaching and mentoring into a business, which is what I've done. A majority of the extablished and hit writers in Nashville now have followed my pattern and are now teachers, mentors and paid consultants, which is why you see so many of them with teaching workshops, online courses, textbooks, DVD methods. Etc. People seek US out, not the other way around, and we respond to the demand.

I've worked with thousands of people, writing songs, teaching performance and networking and helped facilitate record and publishing deals of people like Frankie Ballard, Megan Lindsey of the Voice, and Alicia Michilli of AMERICAS GOT TALENT. I perform, write, record, produce continually. (doing three songs in the studio today), and do YOU TUBE and FACEBOOK teaching videos as well as developing my own personal music.

So I'm here geographically, but very much career. And I didn't seek it out. It sought me and I simply followed where it led. That is why my theme is "YOU DON'T CHOOSE MUSIC, MUSIC CHOOSES YOU."

This is that "theme song" TABLES AND CHAIRS, which is one that I am known best for and what I end every show with. This is recorded at the Bluebird. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kly3n79InrY
(There, I've posted another song. LOL!)



"Anyway, Marc... when we spend all that time and effort (even money) and can't get a nibble from anyone honest in Twang-Town... it becomes a "love/hate" relationship. So... we spout off, get rid of pent up emotions... but if a contract should be dangled in front of our noses (after legal perusal) we'd probably do cartwheels and take our wives out to dinner at the Dixie Diner. LOL!" = Dave Rice

Dave, my question would be "why do you need some pat on the back or contract from Nashville to be the determining factor of your career?" It really isn't. It's just another step. I maintain that you could create your own artists from where you are, by people in the talent pool around you. THOSE are the people you concentrate on the people you can reach out to, meet, and help in their careers. They are the ones that make runs at Nashville and that is how it is done now, not "going to Nashville and getting a contract." That means nothing anymore. What means something is CREATING AN AUDIENCE that is devoted to you or your music. That can be done in your home area easier than trying to operate in a state and business you have no presence in.

Which brings me to the "contradictions." There are ALWAYS people at the top of the pyramid, who make money. Elements of the entertainment business are like every business, there are people who do REALLY REALLY well and make a majority of the money, then a LOT of other people TRYING to do that. there are well deserving people who never get what they deserve, "Bad songs" that get a lot of attention and make money. People who go "viral" and build a career around odd things. People who use the Internet successfully where others fail. People that just don't get the traction with the public, no matter the viral fame, great songs, approach, looks, money behind them, etc. But just don't take off. And things without description that break every rule.
And like anything, the people with the money make the rules. Most of the money is made by large companies because they have the financial and political capital to control their share of the marketplace. But those come and go all the time and the people on top of the world today, could very easily be gone tomorrow. Takes money to make money, and often the creators will come up short.

That has always been the case in this business. Nothing you can do about any of that. You can keep trying to be the "EXCEPTION" to the rule, find your own niche, build your following, and constantly attempt to expand that niche, or you can constantly be disappointed and focus on the negative, of which there is plenty to focus on.

So that is where I come from if you want to know, and if you don't, that is why they make the scroll button.
I'm one part teacher/one part performer and writer and one part musical therapist for similar semi insane people. Call it the world's biggest self help support group. I can't answer all questions, or make sense of things that never make sense. I can give some of the background and try to explain what I have seen, but at the end of the day everyone has to approach it however they approach it. Till then, the therapy couch is always open.
(That's what most of my clients actually call it)

MAB

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You need money to make money is so true.....Most of the time you need it to really get things going.
Somebody should write a Real Broadway Musical about Nashville...BUT Not like the crap on the TV Show....It could be a real story of a real guy or gal struggling for years to make it and DON'T....lol Now that could be cool. It could be called The Nashville Nightmare...lol

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Roger Miller, Marcus Hummon, and Mike Reid, have all written musicals about Nashville. But Broadway is not exactly the place to take anything about Nashville. Not the most popular subject up there. And people wouldn't go to New York to see something about Nashville. Nashville is not really a theater town.
Same problem with the television show. That was one of probably a DOZEN tv shows, pilots, etc.
And remember, Robert Altman had "NASHVILLE" back in the 70's.

So there have been a LOT out there. Just not many go very far. Same with artists, writers, companies, publishers, musicians. A LOT of them constantly. Just not much that connects with the public.

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Pretty cool video Marc, you're a lefty hey?

You seem pretty comfortable up there.

I always felt like I was playing for A Holes quite frankly...lol

I guess sometimes we were playing in venues that never asked for live music.

Almost got hit in the arm by a dart, did get a shoving match with a guy who kept stepping on my pedals.

Played for a lot of drunks who came in at 4 pm and didn't leave till closing.

Never really played in front of a real crowd, but then again what is a real crowd?

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Hello,

Thanks for viewing. Yeah, after about 42 years at this, I hope I'm halfway decent at this. I actually HATE that angle from the Bluebird show, but it was the first that came up on YOU TUBE, so I just posted it. Every couple of weeks, someone posts a new version of that song. I wonder if you can make YOU TUBE money off of multiple versions of one song? LOL! It has actually spread in a lot of ways. About ten people do the song live, a couple have recorded it and there is actually a Spanish and German version. Maybe one day I'll have a whole "TABLES AND CHAIRS" web site.

The Bluebird is unlike anyplace else. It is always packed, every show for the week sells out by 8:05 AM on Monday morning, and every show STILL has a line out front of people waiting for someone to NOT show up, so they might be able to get in. It only holds 85 people so it is pretty easy to pack. And when we play we only get four seats so we can't "invite all our friends out" to pack the room. Last year I played 8 times. (you are only supposed to play twice in a year) because I was invited in a bunch of shows. But I had to dole out the tickets to people one at a time.

But if you ever wanted to see a "REAL AUDIENCE", that is it .The people are always dead quiet, they hang on every word and are the best audiences there are. They are well educated and want to hear all the music. The last time I played there, about a month ago, there was actually a BACHELORETTE party there. AND THEY WERE TOTALLY SILENT. I've never seen that in my life. Nashville is second only to Las Vegas as the most popular destination for bachelorette parties. And those women are WILD!!! But these were well behaved, and all took pictures and bought CD's afterward. Weird.

So that is the Bird. Pretty cool experience that I wish every songwriter could experience.

MAB

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Okay, all you COPYRIGHT AHOLICS WHO JUST CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF THIS SUBJECT, here are the best known cases. Read and enjoy. And if you really feel compelled, go out and sue someone today! It's the new "LAWSUIT LOTTERY!!!" LOL!


https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/art...rt_top_10_copyright_cases_in_music-75741

MAB

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Well,
One more time. You know what your songs are worth so it is up to you if you want to register them with the Library of Congress or not. If you write songs all over Hell and Half of Georgia with every Harry, Jim, and George, and can't remember who you wrote with yesterday what does it matter. I know learning the Music Business can be a Pain in the *ss but if you are serious you will study. It takes effort to write a good song and believe it or not, not everybody can do it. George Jones tried but found out it was a lot harder than it looked. Eureka!


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But im pretty sure George Jones could outwrite most of the people on this site if he wanted to Ray.

Some guys are not interested, some guys think its too much work. But if you have talent, alot of things can be done.

Some guys just say why do i need to bother when i can find a writer who likes writing songs.


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So far, what I've picked up from this thread is that copywriting a work has gone from $35 to $85.

Is that true? Are there other changes?

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the copyright office is the quintessential government scam. It costs a fortune and in the end proves nothing and means nothing.. it is a tax for no real benefit except the "permission" to sue for certain damages in court but has no impact on the findings as anything can be claimed with a copyright submission and no one listens to it,it is given a file number and date. It is evidence of next to nothing in legal practicality. What a waste of money. If you have commercially viable product, those wishing to exploit it will do what is needed (i.e. publisher) or you if you self publish, once there is any real chance of income to even offset registration fees.

It has always been a scam taught to rip off noobs too scared of being ripped off to breath. 99.9999% of the songs registered will never surpass in earnings the cost to register... and it is even worse now with spotify etc.


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Hi Delmont:

It is true as far as the price going up. Not sure if and when it will be approved. The exact amount proposed varies depending upon the type of copyright you seek... and whether or not you apply on-line.

Before I forget, welcome to JPF. That's the Owner's post right above this one... and he knows what he is talking about. Glad you've joined us.

----Dave

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Hey Brian,

Couldn't agree more. Copyright ? So what ? That whole system is long and buried. Do you think we're living in 1935 ? Or any other era for that matter.

Why are you registering for copyright ? The only reason you would ever need to do this is that your work, your own particular work, is UNIQUE. Like a trademark.

Your work is not unique, neither is it ground breaking. Many others have done it before you, and will continue to do it after your passing. Your simple display of your artistic work is enough for it's own intrinsic copyright within itself. It is the paranoid vision of a deluded wannabe to claim some importance where importance doesn't exist.

Let it alone, and just write tunes. If they're any good, you'll be paid your royalties.

cheers, niteshift

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My Cardinal Rule: Don't do it for the money. Money is something that may happen or not. Quoting James Taylor, "It's phenomenological." It can happen, but rarely so, and sometimes long after you are gone (RIP Mozart). If it is not done from the heart with genuine feeling, and only done to meet a deadline or to merely fill in a gap in offerings, it is dead at birth. I spent too many years in one kind of oblivion or another to discover or develop any talent or interest. By discovering sobriety I began discovering myself and expressing what I learned (many times the hard way). I wanted to express what was lying too long on the dusty shelves in my heart and soul. I wanted to do it for my loved ones. I wanted to do it in a way that was interesting and memorable (not preachy or condescending). I discovered a sense of humor that I could share while teaching (in poem-story form) and wrote a few simple songs I sang with my children (and now with my grandchildren). Others enjoyed my offerings, and I found a producer that helped more come out of me in a synergism that culminated in four CDs together. I hope what I have written gives others enjoyment, laughter, food for thought, and a push to express themselves as well, in ways that are passed down, to be learned from and remembered. That is priceless.

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"But im pretty sure George Jones could outwrite most of the people on this site if he wanted to Ray."

Well once again, I've got kind of a funny story of just that. I have a song called "TOO MUCH BLOOD IN MY ALCOHOL LEVEL." It took 13 years from when Wood Newton and I wrote it till it got cut by DAVID BALL, who is one of my favorite country artists. David's version was very different from the way we wrote it. WE wrote it back in the Travis Tritt/Hank Jr. days, so it was in that country rock vein. David's version (produced by Wood, my co-writer) was really "TEXAS HONKY TONK" faster and in a different key. So I developed this version I did that was a verse and a chorus, the way we wrote it, then a verse and a chorus the way David did it, and then I did this little routine about my favorite singer in country music was THE POSSUM" George Jones. And I do the last chorus like George does. I kind of have this pretty good George impression. (I'm a voice mimick. Part of comedy routines I've done.)

So I did this around, the "George" part always got a huge laugh from the audience. One night I was in one of the main songwriters clubs called "THE BROKEN SPOKE", which had a cover band playing in the front bar and the songwriter's room in the back. I was about an hour from going on, when someone came in the songwriter's room and told me "George was in the front bar." He knew someone playing in the band, and had come by to see him, on their way out of town. Had his tour bus in the parking lot. I went in, and sure enough, he was there with a group of guys having food and drinks in a table in the back. The band knew me and somebody asked if I could get up and do the impression. They knew my song, so they led into it and I sang it.

When I got to the "George" part, I could see him half listening as they were talking a lot around the table. I did it, and he kind of waved, but I wasn't sure if he actually heard me. About that time, I had to go do my "actual set" in the other room and so I did that. AS I was getting ready to wind down, I saw him and a couple of guys standing in the hallway. He waved and I made a little deal about it and did the song again. This time I know he heard it, because he pulled me over into the hall way after I finished.

He said "Son...sounds just like me... good job... good song." I made a joke about it and said "Now you know how you would sound singing it." He laughed. Now at this same time, a friend of mine, Keith Anderson, had a song called "BEER RUN" that was out on the charts as a duet with George and Garth Brooks. To get both of them to do the song, they had to add both George and Garth as writers to the song. So there were five writers. But it was a great fun song and a great cut. But George didn't write a word. So I said that I knew Keith and that "You ought to write more songs like you did on that one." He laughed at that cause he knew I knew he wasn't a writer. He said, " I learned a long time ago to let people do what they do. I was never any good at writing them, but pretty good at singing em." Then he left. Was a very nice man. I only saw him one more time before he died and he shook my hand but I don't think he ever remembered that.

But it was pretty funny. George didn't write but did get some credit on songs because his performance made it so special. Sometimes the artist makes such a difference in a song you want them to do it and offering part of the writers share or publishing, means a lot to their management, so it helps to get a song on a project.

Cool time. Great man.

MAB

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Cool story. Yeah, the performance is a big part of it. What do people buy(when they used to buy music), or listen to? They listen to performances and recordings of songs, not songs. They don't go to hear songs, they go to hear people performing songs, or listen to recordings of songs at bars etc

And a great song by a bad artist is just a bad song in the end.

You could make the argument that the people performing the song are just as much writers as the writers themselves. They take an abstract idea and make it real. Plus they embellish melody lines that add to it.

Plus anyone with George Jones voice and musical sense must have a great sense of melody, which is composing in itself.

No doubt in my mind he could have written a better melody and lyric than most here, even though it's known he wasn't a writer.

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