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Should I post my opinion?
by Fdemetrio. 04/27/18 02:14 AM
Mistakes
by floyd jane. 04/26/18 11:02 PM
STILL GET CRAZY
by Mackie H.. 04/26/18 06:32 PM
A Trump Placement...
by John Lawrence Schick. 04/26/18 05:07 PM
Guitar solo needed for my Helen
by Sue Rarick. 04/26/18 03:48 PM
NSAI Online Pitch
by erictrent2147. 04/26/18 02:53 PM
Moving along swimmingly....
by David Gill. 04/26/18 02:27 PM
NEW MEMBERS CHECK HERE
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Green Bottles. Vic
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#1139238 - 03/31/18 03:12 PM Should I post my opinion?  
Joined: Dec 2016
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Bob_Dietrich Offline
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I don’t feel I have the credentials to give an opinion on someone else’s music. If you watch the voice or American idol, they bring in experts as judges. I have pitched songs and listened to the feedback but I am an amateur. I have listened to many of the songs posted on the mp3 forum but am reluctant to post my opinion. If I have never written a successful song, why would I think my feedback would help?
Should I just get over this and throw out my opinion?

#1139240 - 03/31/18 03:47 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Barry David Butler Offline
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Barry David Butler  Offline
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I see your point.

#1139243 - 03/31/18 04:42 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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RonnieDean Online content
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RonnieDean  Online Content
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I feel exactly the same way. Even if I hear what I believe is a mis-phrased line, it's not my place to correct them.

#1139245 - 03/31/18 04:49 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Well,
That is what a lot of people post for. A Critique. So no problem giving an evaluation on a song. However if it is so bad you don't want to give an opinion by all means don't.


Ray E. Strode
#1139247 - 03/31/18 06:36 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Everyone's qualified to critique music. I’ve seen some pro-reviewers give lousy critiques. I give more merit to a general listener than to a pro-reviewer that’s locked into his/her narrow-minded template of what makes good music. Music shouldn’t be based on some preconceived pro formula. Music’s all about feelings and emotion. And we’re all qualified to appraise that.

Best, John smile

#1139248 - 03/31/18 07:23 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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RonnieDean Online content
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Everyone's qualified to critique music. I’ve seen some pro-reviewers give lousy critiques. I give more merit to a general listener than to a pro-reviewer that’s locked into his/her narrow-minded template of what makes good music. Music shouldn’t be based on some preconceived pro formula. Music’s all about feelings and emotion. And we’re all qualified to appraise that.

Best, John smile


Yeah, I wish above all else that I could beta test my songs against an unbiased group of "normals" like those focus groups at the mall. Where nobody is gonna be nice just to be nice.

#1139255 - 04/01/18 12:19 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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9ne Online content
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9ne  Online Content
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So silly..... I can't comment...

#1139256 - 04/01/18 05:42 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Unqualified or layman's opinion is very useful, because most who listens to music are not musicians nor have any particular interest in the technical side of it, but just casual listeners who can tell what they like and what not. As a musician, those tastes are what I'd like to feed. Sometimes challenge, sometimes twist a little, but mostly I'd like listeners to enjoy the music. Anyone is qualified to speak about what they enjoy and what they don't.


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#1139259 - 04/01/18 09:11 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Kolstad]  
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RonnieDean Online content
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Where I work this last fall they did a remodel on a building right next to ours. The vicarious middle aged lead contractor whom I did not know had a job site bluetooth speaker pumping out new old time style country songs loud and all day. Singing off key the hooks but clearly loved it. I asked him if he played at all because I had never seen a fan act like this who didn't play he said no. So I made a CD with Hot Diggity as the first track and The Mrs on as the B side so to speak and handed it to him on my way out to the car to go home one day telling him "It's Country, my hobby..." and left.

Well, the next day I was opening up my office door with my back turned to his job site I heard "Hot Diggity!",. I spun around to see him duck walking air guitar chuck berry style.

That was as close to a regular person eval I ever had.

#1139261 - 04/01/18 10:06 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Originally Posted by Bob_Dietrich
I don’t feel I have the credentials to give an opinion on someone else’s music. If you watch the voice or American idol, they bring in experts as judges. I have pitched songs and listened to the feedback but I am an amateur. I have listened to many of the songs posted on the mp3 forum but am reluctant to post my opinion. If I have never written a successful song, why would I think my feedback would help?
Should I just get over this and throw out my opinion?


For better or worse I am usually considered an expert in the music industry by being asked to sit on panels at music conferences, being asked to speak to students at universities, talking to a wide range of local, regional, national and international music organizations and their various gatherings and have been paid (as well as some donated) for writing countless articles in magazines, websites, books and so on not to mention over 3 decades starting and running the largest music org in the world and all that entails including the largest music awards (actually the 5 largest) in history ever conducted. With all that said, my opinion about what I like isn't more important than what anyone else likes. In fact, a point I make clear to people I talk to that the music I like has little to do with what I suggest people seeking mainstream music success try to create.

I like such a wide array of music, both commercial and decidedly non commercial, that just saying why I like something with no other context can only help artistically however I can offer advice all day to help make songs more commercially viable. Sadly it is rare for people to pull both off, but there have been songs over the years that have stood the test of time. It's also only fair to say there are generically commercial songs that I also like sometimes, often ones that many in the population love to insult oddly enough but I find them far more appealing than some of more respected "hit" songs.

What does all that mean? Anyone can offer advice as to why they like a song and people can also offer advice on how to improve a song. Even when they are right by most accounts, it still may be irrelevant to your artistic sensibilities, but I think it is worth hearing for the next songs you write as an option in your tool box to consider. People rarely love comments so much they change the existing songs to please a single critic, but quite often an interesting alternative suggestion can broaden your future works. It's why I think people should quickly finish up a song and move on to the next one, rather than waste tremendous energy on fixing one and usually making it worse.

Bottom line is all respectful feedback is invaluable, especially for non veterans, and guess who learns the most from it? The people writing the critique do which is why I always suggest people who really want to get better spend a lot of time deeply critiquing good, bad and ugly songs, offering up flaws you find or things you think could be better and most importantly, a polite suggestion as to how it might work better. (It's incomplete to say something doesn't work and leave someone hanging, that's a lazy approach that doesn't help anyone, you nor them). Offer up your best suggestion, make it clear they can use it or lose it and wish them luck and on to the next one.

A quick suggestion to the recipient of a critique: Remember, you are asking for feedback from people when you post on the feedback boards. Never attack a critique, even if you think it's a bad one. Just thank them for their contribution if they are trolling you (because they want you to blow up, trolls hate indifference). If you want further clarification, allow them to do so, don't start attacking what you don't like. Again, you asked for help, don't shoot the messenger. If you do it right, you'll be learning stuff about your songs that you simply can't see yourself.

In fact the last skill nearly all great writers master is finding all the flaws or potential issues in their own work. It is MUCH easier to find it in other people's work which is why the critique giver benefit the most from a well written critique. Many of the top lyricists who have come through here were also those who spent the most time offering critiques to entry level writers and boosting their writing and confidence in moving toward writing better and better lyrics all while simultaneously reinforcing good habits in their own writing and often recognizing a mistake they've made in their own work with an unbiased solution of your own making. It really can be a great win/win tool for both sides.

That's just my opinion, I could be right. -Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

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#1139610 - 04/13/18 09:46 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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E Swartz Offline
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Bob,

There is nothing wrong with posting your opinion on someoone's music/lyric creation when doing so in a forum designed for that purpose. Some folks, maybe you perhaps, do not feel comfortable critiquing other's work, and that is fine. I always look at the song fundamentally starting with sonic "melody," then lyrical structure, then whether those lyrics capture my interest. That in itself defines enough for me to have an opinion as to whether that song has potential from my own opinion, which is based on my own knowledge & experience, but also just am I personally "enjoying" this story/melody. Now as to "how good" the performance & production goes--that's a different animal in which I may be less inclined to critique too harshly unless asked or see that this person needs/wants that feedback. I've seen some really good songs that are extremely rough with very little production and others with major productions that have less potential.

I appreciate honest courteous feedback, but unfortunately, there will always be a few that troll or wish to elevate themselves by seeking negativity where its unnecessary and unwarranted. Many, including myself have gained/learned from the opinions of other songwriters/lay listeners suggestions. Like Brian alluded to, everyone's not a commercial goal oriented songwriter--writing "cookie-cutter" songs--it is certainly not my bag. Making a few remarks/comments about what you like with a song is not really critiquing, rather, and just giving a friendly compliment is certainly welcome by those who invest a lot of time producing music. If you choose to be more bold and offer more constructive opinions, its a good idea to offer "why," you feel so--that gives the recipient at least something to evaluate, chew on it, or discard and agree to disagree--no big deal. I have had several comments that I needed to mull over for a while before I accepted their merit, others I just politely discard and remain true to my own gut. Hope this helps!

steady-eddie

Last edited by E Swartz; 04/13/18 10:44 PM.
#1139624 - 04/13/18 12:26 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Colin Ward Online content
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Everybody is qualified to express whether or not they like something. And there is nothing wrong with saying so. Someone with more expertise might be able to put their finger on exactly what could be improved (e.g. that chord does not fit with the others in that key, etc.), but the general public usually likes it or doesn't so that alone is helpful for the songwriter.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1139625 - 04/13/18 01:01 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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My experience is that the Internet has created more critics than at anytime in history. Speaking mostly about music here, but it applies to just about everything.

Before the net, people did not scrutinize lyrics, they did not scrutinize production, they listened and either liked it or didn't. They bought a record and sometimes the lyrics came with it! And you listened along, uncaring if the lyrics made sense, were good, all u needed was maybe a feeling, something that moved u in some way. No explanation needed.

And before I learned how to play music, listening to music was pure and a joy, it just was. That changes when u start writing, recording, producing, etc. suddenly you start seeing and hearing things about music you never noticed before, and sometimes that enhances it, other times it gets in the way

My point is, yes there is a point....is that, what are we opining on?

Do we need the lyrics written out? What happens when we write the lyrics out? Suddenly the emphasis is on what your reading, and a lot of people open a thread, read the lyric and don't listen to the song, which is stupid really

In the real world, people listen to music, they either like it or they don't.

There are objective things we can see and say if we want to, I do it sometimes here, because we are supposedly different than the average listener

But in the end, the lyric could be written in ancient Aramaic, if the song is good it does not matter one bit.

I'm a big fan of lyrics too, but it shouldn't be about reading the lyric, it should be about listening and maybe, relating to the ideas in the song.

So opinions are wide open, do we give an opinion on a rhyme? Or if a publisher might be turned off by a line? Or do we give an opinion on if we like it or not.

But u can get a feel for what type of feedback people are looking for. I dont think the ones with full blown productions are looking for opinions on a line in the lyric.

But yeah it's all on par with helping other songwriters. Some give opinions cause they want u to review there's. Others give opinions because they are bored, some are trying to stick to the script.

But where friendships are concerned, if you do give honest sometimes critical feedback, more often than not that person won't be happy with it. Regardless what they say....lol

I remember Jim Colyer wherever he is these days. He gave some of the most simplistic basic responses to songs, rarely diving in to the content of it, used to crack me up. But looking back at it now, he didn't need to say more than that, it didn't matter!


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 04/13/18 01:20 PM.
#1139647 - 04/13/18 08:07 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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TC Perkins Offline
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I, for one, want to hear your opinion on any song I post. You don't have to be an expert to provide valuable feedback. My wife provides some very good critiques and she is not a musician.

Peace,
TC


If it has strings I will find a way to play it!

You can hear my tunes at https://soundcloud.com/tc-gypsy
#1139689 - 04/14/18 10:28 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Getting General observations on songs is essential to growth as a writer or artist. Also, by participating in critiquing other people's songs, helps YOU see things in your own writing that you might not see other wise. Sort of like "If you want to learn how to do something, TEACH IT. I have learned more about my own writing by being in the critique process than any thing else I have ever done.

And they are all just an opinion. Some educated, some just a "gut level" thing and some that you simply don't agree with. That is fine. Music is very subjective and put ten people listening to one song, and you are likely to get ten different opinions.

But one cool thing is if you have a few opinions you trust, or ARE one of those opinions for others that they trust, is if you INDEPENDENTLY get several opinions and they all say the same thing, about certain aspects of the song, you know you might have learned something about your song you didn't know before. And if the opinions are all over the place, you just go with your gut.

Every little bit helps.
MAB

#1139798 - 04/16/18 12:10 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Hi Bob:

First, let me welcome you to JPF. We are a rag-tag collection of musical wannabees inter-laced between musical "experts" and some pretty decent songwriters and performing talents. None of us have a "lock" on the path to money through music... otherwise, we would probably be jetting to exotic places for whatever reason. I highly suspect those with real success in the biz would be hanging out elsewhere.

I don't mean this to insult or belittle anyone... but simply wanted you to know your opinions count. We reserve the right to disagree... but personal taste varies from the entire spectrum of music types, styles and genres. If a song or subject moves you or not... depending on the sincerity of your post... it may give somebody some very important feedback about their work. We all need feedback... and the tone of that information is important. Budding writers and would be artists tend to have thin skins and should be handled gently in your post.

I write this assuming that music is your primary interest. If not, there are tons of forums covering just about any interest related to music, film, cooking and just about every other topic that might interest you. Dive in, and do your best to keep it friendly.

Looking forward to your opinions and posts. ----Dave

#1139801 - 04/16/18 02:40 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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R&M Offline
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It always has seemed to matter to me whether the opinions assesed are of a given genre or if the opinions are more for who is on the outskirts of that. And most listeners that judge the merit often are not musicians. Why should you be any worse throwing your hat into it?

#1139807 - 04/16/18 09:35 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Michael LeBlanc Offline
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By all means,critique away.I feel you can say what you want about someone's lyric or song as long as you keep it civil.I've had one lyric of mine actually critiqued so bad as it went beyond the lyric and got personal.I was called many terrible things.I did my best to defend myself without getting ugly as they were.To be verbally abused like that in front of the group was humiliating.It would have been fine had i was PM with their thoughts and straightened things out there,i would have been fine with it or even face to face would have even been better.But i got over it (not) and now i see how some people can be,i'm just glad i don't critique like that.So yes,critique away but be a pro or human about it. Mike

#1139813 - 04/16/18 04:10 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
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RonnieDean Online content
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RonnieDean  Online Content
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Keystone, CO USA
Originally Posted by Michael LeBlanc
By all means,critique away.I feel you can say what you want about someone's lyric or song as long as you keep it civil.I've had one lyric of mine actually critiqued so bad as it went beyond the lyric and got personal.I was called many terrible things.I did my best to defend myself without getting ugly as they were.To be verbally abused like that in front of the group was humiliating.It would have been fine had i was PM with their thoughts and straightened things out there,i would have been fine with it or even face to face would have even been better.But i got over it (not) and now i see how some people can be,i'm just glad i don't critique like that.So yes,critique away but be a pro or human about it. Mike


I shouldn't, but I went looking for this incident and couldn't find it. I did get to peruse your work in the process and you're a good one. I can't believe someone would attack anyone here in the pit of misery that is the jpf group. dilly dilly!

#1139814 - 04/16/18 04:30 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Michael LeBlanc Offline
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Michael LeBlanc  Offline
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Louisiana
Hey Ronnie,i tried to find it to but i guess it's been deleted to protect the innocent.Was a few years back.All water under the bridge now.Thanks for your kind words. Mike

#1139817 - 04/16/18 07:14 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Rick Heenan Offline
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yes.

#1139856 - 04/18/18 10:11 AM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by Michael LeBlanc
Hey Ronnie,i tried to find it to but i guess it's been deleted to protect the innocent.Was a few years back.All water under the bridge now.Thanks for your kind words. Mike


Michael,

I am the only person who can delete a post and aside from spam bot posts I don't delete anything. At most, in extreme cases, I will move it off public view but it's still here in those cases in the Staff section. Kevin has moved a couple of political fights with my approval in the past as well. He can't delete anything though. I'd like to find out who did the attacking if you'd be willing to send me a PM. It's been a while since we've had a problem.


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#1140280 - Yesterday at 12:51 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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Bob, for reasons of my own I rarely visit songwriting sites anymore (many no longer exist), but they are valuable to your growth, especially this one, and they all exist MAINLY for someone like you—the writer who feels "unqualified to critique". You are every bit as qualified as Simon Cowell.

In the end, everyone's song finally comes down to their own opinion and choice, of course. But the experience of others matters. Some people only hear the lyrics, some people only the composition, some people only the technical quality of performance, some hear it all, some hear hardly any of it. But when an individual explains to you the way your song strikes them, you learn something new about that song. Good luck predicting other people's response to your song...it's often surprising.

Because of this, your viewpoint matters to other writers, no matter their experience level. The opinion of a stranger is hard to get and good to know. The opinion of a regular contributor gets more and more predictable. The opinion of a professional is both extremely valuable and also potentially dead wrong—if there was a standard recipe for greatness, we'd all learn the trick. But it ISN'T a standard, and it isn't a trick...a good song is always its own uniquely structured building, and it stands on its own, good or bad. I'll bet your favorite artist of all time has a few tracks that you simply don't like. Do you think the artist knows that? Maybe, maybe not. But every artist on this board who posts a song is ASKING for your unqualified opinion. It matters. You don't even need to "defend" it...voicing your opinion is helpful to the artist. You never forget what bugged someone else. You never forget what thrilled someone else. It is all useful to the artist. So give yourself some credit. It's not about your expertise, its about explaining your experience listening to that song. I'll take even a four-year-old child's critique, because it all matters.

#1140284 - Yesterday at 02:46 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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That reminds me, I have to critique one of couchgrouchs lyrics.

If only Mark. I have observed many threads of several forums, probably listened to hundreds of tracks, read hundreds...of thousands... Hyperbole...of lyrics, and I have rarely seen somebody who says "awesome man, you are so right, going to work On this more"

In fact, often times when a crit is given, people will come to the defense of the writer, if they are friends, or part of the buddy system. "Well I'm not sure what he was saying there, but to me this is fantastic"

I think what I have learned from doing this for a while is that, the only thing we can judge is if we like it or not, which everybody is qualified to do. We all do it every day...this song sucks turn that off....that song is so cool. Subjectivity is easy, objectivity gets awkward sometimes.

Imagine asking Eric Clapton what he thinks of your blues guitar playing?

I'd say he's qualified to answer. I could tell you if I like it or not, but he may have a deeper understanding of it

But, comparing Bob and Simon Cowell, might be an insult to........Bob






Last edited by Fdemetrio; Yesterday at 02:49 PM.
#1140287 - Yesterday at 04:15 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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Minneapolis
Fdemetrio, boy do you make some true points! I have lived every one of those scenarios on this very site, LOL.

I'm not saying artists won't be resistant, in denial, truculent (love that word), offended by your opinion, offended by your existence, offended by life itself... because they often WILL. grin What I AM saying is that no matter what they say about your critique, you never forget the critique. We REMEMBER that guy who said he hated the word "truculent", and how "steamed" would work better...even if we disagree.

And yes, the Greek chorus of friends generally do not feel comfortable watching another friend's baby get roughed up. When they reflexively run to the rescue like that, it probably impedes a budding songwriter's growth more than it protects feelings (that were already felt anyway). All I can say is that looking for a critique is supposed to be a skill-improving, skin-toughening exercise, not just a praise machine. Anyone too vulnerable to hear a negative response ought to mention that at the top of their thread. Critics are what's on the menu here...it's the point.

Eric Clapton is welcome to tell me anything about my playing, but he just might tell me I suck eggs, and to please never touch a guitar ever again. Who knows? He also might not be as good of a coach for other players than a lesser guitarist might be. Maybe for him it's easier to do than to teach.

My guess is that most people here are very interested to know how others respond to their work. They aren't always prepared for the truth. But anyone's honest perspective is valuable, and that's what I want Bob to know. His opinion matters!

#1140288 - Yesterday at 04:32 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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By the way, on our collaborations couchgrouch was always open changing up a lyric, so long as it made sense as an improvement rather than just someone else's preference. That said, he has made clear for years that he's not here for the critique so much as for putting it out there among other writers, show and tell, take it or leave it. I think that is okay too.

#1140289 - Yesterday at 04:58 PM Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio

the only thing we can judge is if we like it or not,


Fd
That is the nut of it.

An extended unpopular truth in my opinion is;

Songs are songs because they are musical.
If there is no music 99% of them are bad to fair poems.
Many people who readily critique on these websites cannot play a musical instrument or if they do...barely. Songs are musical.
Many people who readily critique on these websites have a tin ear. They cannot hold a tune and don't truly comprehend what pitch is all about. Songs are musical.
Many people who readily critique on these websites don't write well or have any understanding of artistic principals e.g. rhythm, contrast, emotional weights of words etc. But they are very active nonetheless.

As Fd said, many folks can say whether they like or dislike your song and will readily give an opinion about what is right or wrong with it, but that opinion is often so technically under-informed that the reader risks being sent in the wrong direction or just into a fog.

IMO there are two answers to the original poster's question;

#1) You have every right to comment at any time. Right or wrong. That is the understanding of why the website is here. It is a place to participate in an interest that you have and critiques are explicitly invited by anyone in attendance.

#2) If you sincerely question your own abilities...who better would know than you?...then you (very probably) don't have the knowledge to give instructional advice to other amateurs writing songs.

In my critiques these days, I usually stay with 2-3 words indicating that I like a song and maybe further stating why it appealed to me personally. I can't tell anybody what's wrong with their song. I can only tell them how to write like me.

The above advice is nothing more than the opinion of a guy named Marty.

#1140293 - 35 minutes ago Re: Should I post my opinion? [Re: Bob_Dietrich]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Mark, I agree, I used to see the value, I think it works best when you have people who have worked on their craft, and are able to see where the critiques are coming from.

For sure, some crits are designed to annoy people, some are designed to be antagonistic, I have seen some designed to be mean, and "hey look how much I know, all eyes on me"

I had one guy get so mad at me back In the day, he followed me on every site, there was a lot, and would say "perfect, as usual" "you are a genius" " what else can I say, flawless". And he would thumbs down me, and give bad ratings lol....I didn't even get to sleep with his wife...

I think Crits work best for song pitchers, and people trying to get songs recorded, which never happens anyway.

Art is hard to critique, songs are easier.

Well CG, has that right, but if everybody said that, there would be no workshop.... You can't decide what the forum will be, it's what it is.

Maybe part of the problem is that it's in front of everyone, it's like being disciplined in front of the class in school.

I don't think it's worth critiquing a finished product, but I might if it's a rough take.

Marty, I agree with you on most of that. Many lyricists become lyricists because it's so easy to get started doing it. Everybody knows how to write a sentence. And anyone can learn how to structure a song.

Bono once said, a lyric without soul, and without music, is an essay

And what you say is true, you can really only say how you would write it, not if if its the right or wrong way.

Nobody really knows what people will like either.

I enjoy The Ramones, and a lot of indie rock, there's nothing to critique, it's just a sound I enjoy hearing.

But I also enjoy good songwriters, Ray Davies, Pete Townshend, Springsteen,
Tom Petty, these guys can inspire you to be a writers writer.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 30 minutes ago.

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