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Any thoughts on double song titles
by Roy Cooper. 07/19/19 02:21 AM
Love's Next Millionaire.
by MFB III. 07/19/19 12:27 AM
I Hate A Song That Everybody Loves
by Kristi McKeever. 07/18/19 11:03 PM
He's a changed man - suggestions welcome
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A Part of the Plan
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SOME THINGS. ( Work in progress)
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Oh, My Friend
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How Broken Hearts Can Be (Halie Loren vocal)
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One Word
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Why Does Love Have To Be So Hard
by nightengale. 07/18/19 06:59 AM
"Walkin' Down The Road (Without Me)"
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"Over The River Tonight" by Gary E. Andrews
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What I Have Become
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::: OH BABY I LOVE YOU (Uke) :::
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by JaneK. 07/17/19 01:46 PM
A Dirge For The Lonely.
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Life Cycles.
by MFB III. 07/17/19 12:40 PM
I'm A Song Puppet.
by MFB III. 07/17/19 11:47 AM
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by TransformsIntoAGuita. 07/17/19 10:55 AM
Great Idea in the Netherlands...
by Martin Lide. 07/17/19 07:52 AM
Gina
by Mimmo. 07/17/19 07:45 AM
STAND UP. Vic
by Vicarn. 07/17/19 07:23 AM
Oh Darlin
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by Travis david. 07/17/19 03:51 AM
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#1137374 - 02/18/18 09:55 AM Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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I know there are a LOT of Unknown Bands and Singers who can't really write great songs. I wish there was some easy way of merging the unknown songwriters with the unknown bands and singers looking for them.

#1137375 - 02/18/18 10:48 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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This is and ongoing problem.

I've been in bands from the time I was 11 till 30 - when I ran away from the scene to a cabin in the woods.

In order of ease of acquisition.

1. Guitar
2. Drums
3. Bass
4. Keyboards
5. A good singer

While there are a myriad of shower and car singers. Finding a good one can last a lifetime.
The male ego will keep most guys from agreeing to do your stuff. I have found that you can even offer them cash to come over to your stupid house, to your frilly little studio and sing your dorky song. Females are much easier and will gladly come over (helpful if you have a wife or girlfriend there) - they will like your home and think your studio is cool and gladly sing for handbag money.

Females will also respect what you did and sing it like you wrote it.
Guys will always try to fix it for you. - and screw it up.

I'm 56 now, male and greatly detest the male ego. It really gets in the way of a lot of things.
I have a backlog of male singer songs and nobody to do em.

Best of blessings with this.

/ Rant off.

#1137376 - 02/18/18 11:01 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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I guess you can approach them between sets at gigs.

It never happened to me in many years of doing bar gigs, but maybe if the venues were more musical Venues than entertainment ones, you might see somebody willing.

But you could try putting a flyer on the boards of your local music store. When I go into guitar center, I usually glance at the board and see a lot of guitar teachers looking for students, and sometimes bands looking for that "special front man to complete this power trio"

Don't see why a songwriter looking for a gigging band to work with would be a far reach.

I'd probably try to get them to perform it live once, before asking them to commit to recording it.

Also musician exchange newspaper and online ads, hell even Craig's list.

Not to mention HERE

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 02/18/18 12:52 PM.
#1137377 - 02/18/18 11:12 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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That said, Karaoke nights are said to be fruitful. They don't get going until 9:00pm though. So that's out for me. I have to be up adam and sharp the next day. My wife reminded me that it so late because people have to get tipsy before they will do it. Most guys are too cool to do it though. Especially if their ridiculing buddies are there. Where girls will at least outwardly verbally support one another.

This ratio bears out even on Sunday morning in church. I used to drum in the praise band. You could see many couples in the congregation where the lady is singing out and the man is standing there stoic like "I'm not gonna sing" - really?


Last edited by RonnieDean; 02/18/18 11:20 AM.
#1137380 - 02/18/18 12:03 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Footwork,
Go out and see what is happening in your neck of the woods. Talk to people playing music and see if they are interested in doing a CD. Build personal relationships.


Ray E. Strode
#1137381 - 02/18/18 12:17 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Maybe a Group or Site of Facebook Page that songwriters can post songs and Bands and Singers can check them out. There must be amazing singers and bands that just don't write good songs. A few great songs can push them forward. I can't find any site or group like this and Maybe some here can get creative and see what they can come up with. I'm can go to a local Bar yeah but I'd like to connect with bands and singers everywhere through the internet. We are here and they are there and how do we hook up...

#1137382 - 02/18/18 01:28 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Well, Lemme See here,
I will have my people get together with your people.......


Ray E. Strode
#1137438 - 02/19/18 08:20 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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The attitude is if you are local you can't be any good, you have to come from away to be good. What makes you any better than me. Nobody wants to give you a hand up, they want to keep you on the same level as them. That's human nature for you.

#1137443 - 02/19/18 09:18 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Craigslist - worked for Metallica

Be wary though, vetting is important but, at least you find people who want to play and sing.

Good luck

Last edited by joro; 02/19/18 09:19 AM.
#1137444 - 02/19/18 09:35 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Martin Lide Offline
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I learned to sing (somewhat) because I could not find vocalists to record some of my first songs when recording them at a local studio years ago.

Well, I could find them, but found them to be way into themselves and my songs were to be yet another testament to their greatness.

My lowly nobody songs were not to be sung the way that I had in mind, but to be sung according to the vocalist's whims and tastes (and ability). After all, I was lucky to be in their presence.

Though, I was paying them, another problem was getting them to care enough to dig in and to do a good job.
And there was a problem of finding a singer who was truly good enough to pull off the songs and a range and timbre match for them. In Nashville, that is probably a lot easier.

Good luck with your search but expect it to be difficult.

On a similar note:
For us Ammys, do not take for granted what a resource Michael Zaneski is. In talent, price and dedication, someone like him is very hard to find. Next to impossible.

#1137449 - 02/19/18 10:47 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Help a Mor-Ronnie please, what's an Ammy?

And your poetic take on the situation is spot on.

#1137450 - 02/19/18 10:52 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
The attitude is if you are local you can't be any good, you have to come from away to be good. What makes you any better than me. Nobody wants to give you a hand up, they want to keep you on the same level as them. That's human nature for you.


Not everybody.

I'll hitch to something that truly excites me and do my best to move it along. FWIW. Just for the love of music that I get a charge out of. Kinda like a quarterback bandwagon. It may be wrong, it may be right but I like it and here we go.

#1137482 - 02/19/18 06:46 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: RonnieDean]  
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Originally Posted by RonnieDean
what's an Ammy?

.


Amateur I believe

#1137485 - 02/19/18 07:07 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: joro]  
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Originally Posted by joro
Originally Posted by RonnieDean
what's an Ammy?

.


Amateur I believe

Ah, yeah. Thanks joro

#1137532 - 02/20/18 03:38 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: RonnieDean]  
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Martin Lide Offline
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Martin Lide  Offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieDean
Originally Posted by joro
Originally Posted by RonnieDean
what's an Ammy?

.


Amateur I believe

Ah, yeah. Thanks joro


Right-o.
Ammy = Amateur

#1137577 - 02/21/18 10:00 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Thanks, Martin... for describing me in front of the entire music world... LOL!

Barry:

I wish I had the answer to your question... it would mean I'd found my own form of "Nirvana" and my songs might be getting airplay as a "garageband" group was being discovered on Everett's local radio station. I worry about what is going to happen to my catalog when I am no longer around to nurture and attempt to promote it. Creating songs that cause people to cheer or weep... or fall in-love all over again, are a precious commodity... and few of us will ever be able to do that on a repetitive basis. Your moment in the Sun... will probably arrive about the same time I'm hoping mine does... regretfully, after we've gone. Few things are fair in this life but music is a most fickle mistress and has always been that way.

I get to feeling sorry for myself every now and then... but sometimes, something wonderful happens. As you may know, I play chess twice a week here in "West Mayberry." Yesterday, I was deep in thought about a delicate tactical position, looked up and saw two friends who actually appreciate my songs. One of them has three months to live. I choked back tears, greeted them as warmly and casually as I could, returned to the board and lost with all the grace I could muster.

We only think we have problems. I hope my little story brings you a smidgin of comfort, my friend. ----Dave

#1137624 - 02/22/18 07:55 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Everett Adams Offline
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Fading Star, nice song Dave, I'm sure millions can relate to the message. See you touched me, I get it.

#1137625 - 02/22/18 08:57 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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I decided to put all my songs on my youtube page like a Barry Butler Library. A hundred years from now somebody will stumble over it like looking on the shelf of a library and be able to enjoy one of my songs. I didn't want my songs to just die here on mp3's....So that is what we can do.

#1137626 - 02/22/18 09:35 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Barry,

One of the reasons you are going to find this pretty much a dead end is because you are coming from a flawed premise and not understanding the mentality of a modern day artist. You are saying "They can't write songs." In THEIR minds, THEY CAN. And it is all relative. They songs they write sound like the people they emulate. Which are not really that good to begin with. So even finding an artist today, on any level, that is even open to listening to outside material is like trying to find a place to play your 8-track tapes. An outdated idea.

That doesn't mean that at some point they don't listen to you. They will if you gain their confidence and become a friend to what they do. But shoving songs at someone they have no connection with and trying to "put words in their mouths" are going to pretty much go no where in today's music market.

They don't view it like that anymore. They grow up writing their own songs from very early. They put them on YOU TUBE and FACEBOOK and it is all about THEM. EGO is the number one thing they have., and if you have dealt with any pre-teens, teens or early twenties people, on anything, no matter what subject it is, you will understand where they come from. And they view outside songs as "something for someone else." They don't look at it as "I've got to have that great song."

There are a few things. PROVING you can help them promote what they do, support them, is the first way. Second is showing them you know more than they do (which is a pretty tall order). But it takes time and you have to find people that you can become friends with. You are going to have to become friends first, before you even get to pitch any songs.

You are also looking at it as the SONG is everything, and it is not. The BRAND is everything now. And people are so self absorbed it is very difficult to get them to put the cell phone down long enough to pay any attention to what anyone else is doing. We live in a distracted world. Songs now simply don't have the value they once did. Sad, but true.

It can be done, but you are also going to have to learn to WRITE THE SONGS WITH THEM. You have to find ways to INCLUDE THEM IN THE SONG. You have to find ways to use your experience, to help them present something that is about THEM. It is called "PROPRIETARY OWNERSHIP." They have to feel they "OWN" a part of the song. That it is ABOUT THEM.
And another thing. Think about when you were in your teens or early twenties. How open were you to listening to people two and three times your age when it came to advice on anything. Most songs written by older people, are vastly out of date, subject matter unrelatable to the current artists, or simply no better than what they are doing themselves. Another reason to GET TO KNOW THEM. Because you can find out what THEY WANT TO SAY. And HOW THEY WANT TO SAY IT.
We recently have been having this discussion about "Giving an artist credit." They want not only credit but they want to be INVOLVED IN THE WRITING OF THE SONG. Period.

That's why for most part "the day of the pitch is done." It's the era of the ARTIST/WRITER and not the "WRITER ARTIST" or the "primary writer.

A lot is made of "getting songs to artists." To getting in with publishers, of hiring song pluggers, of song libraries.

Artists today don't use those. They don't spend thousands of hours, perusing the Internet, looking for outside songs that they can make their own. That is not how they approach it. They are writing them themselves or involved with people around them in their orbit. Most have older people who have done just that and gained their confidence. People that have hired them to sing demos with them. People who have gotten to know their own "heroes" in their genre ,who are ahead of them in the game. People who have enormously successful social networking platforms. And of course, people who can PROMISE them success. Namely producers, people with studios, anything that they can utilize for their own aggrandizement. If you own a studio, or have some existing success that they respect, you have a leg up, albeit a small one. It's very much "what are you doing for me RIGHT NOW?"

But still it is a dicey proposition no matter what you do. In my experience, not only in Nashville but growing up as an artist, being involved in this for a lot of years, and dealing with a LOT OF PEOPLE in other areas, it is just not viewed the way that most writers trying to get songs "out there" view it. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. The modern generation simply don't look at music the way most of us did. Too many songs, too many artists. And all songs being about the same. Very inside, very self absorbed.

Does that mean we stop pitching over all? Nope. We still do it, because you are always doing as much as you can to get what you do "out there," And while any one of THOSE songs might not be something that is ultimately recorded, it might LEAD to writing with them or other avenues for your own songs. It might open a door with a relationship that ultimately becomes successful. But the trick is getting them to listen in the first place. And the "Throwing it all up against a wall" is not the way to do it. And a stopped clock is right twice a day. You might just get lucky.

But once you start understanding the mentality of the modern artist, you can take steps to get to know them, become involved in what they do. When you can show them what YOU CAN DO FOR THEM, you will start to gain some ground. Until then, you are just trying to throw something at someone who has no intention of listening to it.

I watch this every single day. Dealing with artists, artists wanna be's and people trying to climb this ladder every single day. And the biggest thing they DO NEED, are SONGS. But most of them just don't realize it. In their opinion THEY HAVE THE SONGS. It gets pretty frustrating. But that is another one of the road blocks you have to find your way around.

It's like that old conundrum.
"HOW DO YOU GET A JOB WITHOUT THE EXPERIENCE, AND HOW DO YOU GET EXPERIENCE WITHOUT A JOB?"

Now it's:
"HOW DO YOU GET SONGS TO AN ARTIST WHO ALREADY THINK THEY HAVE SONGS AND HAVE NO INTENTION OF LISTENING TO ANY SONGS?

The answer?:
You find a way. But you are going to have to GET TO KNOW people FIRST. Without that, you can pitch away. But it's doubtful you will get many listeners.

MAB

#1137627 - 02/22/18 09:59 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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I know you are correct...but I like to Rant as it makes me feel better...LOL

#1137628 - 02/22/18 10:03 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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I am so fortunate that I can write words, melodies and sing....At least I get to do it. I am passed all this stuff and am just writing my Journey From There To Here....Enjoying myself.

#1137632 - 02/22/18 10:54 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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RonnieDean Offline
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I remember putting together bands in Jr. High in a 1/2 hour at lunch.

Man those were the days. You could meet a drummer, who knew a bass player, who knew a guitar player and someone could always be recruited to spit vocal regardless of their talent.

Boom and the girls followed like we were the pied pipers.

I should note that my old buddy Tris the author in this article, can be a tad melodramatic.

http://www.mahaffayamps.com/about-us.htm



Last edited by RonnieDean; 02/22/18 11:05 AM.
#1137634 - 02/22/18 11:15 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well,
Hooking up with anyone today is about a lost cause! I found a Link to a Publisher, in Nashville that after 14 years is starting up his Publishing Company again. They are taking songs. So I E-Mailed him for an address so I could send a submission. Hell, they want everything sent by E-Mail! I think everybody today wants everything up served to them on a Silver Platter. Now I ask you, if they are too lazy to accept songs on a CD for evaluation how are they going to send songs to a prospective Client? Somewhere thy are going to have to do some actual work, like going to the bank and depositing those "Huge" Royalty Checks and paying those songwriters. By E-Mail?


Ray E. Strode
#1137635 - 02/22/18 12:33 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Martin Lide Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
Hooking up with anyone today is about a lost cause! I found a Link to a Publisher, in Nashville that after 14 years is starting up his Publishing Company again. They are taking songs. So I E-Mailed him for an address so I could send a submission. Hell, they want everything sent by E-Mail! I think everybody today wants everything up served to them on a Silver Platter. Now I ask you, if they are too lazy to accept songs on a CD for evaluation how are they going to send songs to a prospective Client? Somewhere thy are going to have to do some actual work, like going to the bank and depositing those "Huge" Royalty Checks and paying those songwriters. By E-Mail?


Roy

Here is a "hard-boiled" reality for you...also...
It's 2018. Telecommunications in this era are magnificent. Try to stay up or suffer the consequences.

#1137639 - 02/22/18 04:13 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Hi Ray, Martin, Marc, Barry, Everett & Ron:

Ray... look at it from an "economics" perspective. A few years ago, to pitch a song, you had to make a CD, print a label (expensive ink), type a letter requesting they listen, put everything in a padded envelope, address everything correctly... they drive to the darn post office and stand in line to pay through the nose to send "the pitch package." Better have remembered to contact them via long distance before sending. (AT&T Monopoly) - more money down the drain. Then remember the name of the intern you were lucky enough to speak to... and get a pitch number to put on the outside of the package so they wouldn't automatically discard the whole thing when they received it.

I'm amazed one of them (Publisher) has decided to enter the fray again... and will allow an E-mail and MP3 file to be attached for the pitch. Let me know if you need assistance in getting any of this done. It can be a bit overwhelming... but once you've done it, piece of cake! Best of luck, by the way.

Before I forget, Thanks, Everett... for listening to "Fading Star." I'm still not happy with the vocal but when the border is crossed into the category of "Ancient"... %$*# Happens! LOL!

----Dave

#1137640 - 02/22/18 04:14 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Hi Ray, Martin, Marc, Barry, Everett & Ron:

Ray... look at it from an "economics" perspective. A few years ago, to pitch a song, you had to make a CD, print a label (expensive ink), type a letter requesting they listen, put everything in a padded envelope, address everything correctly... they drive to the darn post office and stand in line to pay through the nose to send "the pitch package." Better have remembered to contact them via long distance before sending. (AT&T Monopoly) - more money down the drain. Then remember the name of the intern you were lucky enough to speak to... and get a pitch number to put on the outside of the package so they wouldn't automatically discard the whole thing when they received it.

I'm amazed one of them (Publisher) has decided to enter the fray again... and will allow an E-mail and MP3 file to be attached for the pitch. Let me know if you need assistance in getting any of this done. It can be a bit overwhelming... but once you've done it, piece of cake! Best of luck, by the way.

Before I forget, Thanks, Everett... for listening to "Fading Star." I'm still not happy with the vocal but when the border is crossed into the category of "Ancient"... %$*# Happens! LOL!

----Dave

#1137645 - 02/22/18 05:05 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well Folkses,
If you are going to cut down a tree you have to swing the ax, you can't phone it in. As some here know, I do have 15 of my songs on a Web Site where they can listen if they choose and go from there. And of course I have other songs. I don't have any of my song files in my computer or the lyric sheets. There is no one doing anything to speak of in Nashville anyway so it doesn't much matter. It isn't too hard to make a CD and mail it as I am set up to do all that. Of course someone recording and releasing a CD requires more than an E-mail. Maybe they've discovered how to make CD's and distributing them for sale. I still buy Commercial CD's once in a while!
Geronimo!


Ray E. Strode
#1137646 - 02/22/18 05:17 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Ray,

I know you don't like any of this, I don't either. But there are a lot of "other side of the desk" things here. First if all, if you have every visited a "REAL publisher" (not the Internet only song pluggers or studio's contest, people, etc) it is not as much "lazyness" as storage. Up until the last few years going to an office, meant seeing the hundreds and THOUSANDS of CD's stacked around the office, on every desk, shelves, in storage rooms, etc. I have about songs of my own which number in the thousands and they are EVERYWHERE. I have boxes in the attic, in my office, all over the place. So it is a STORAGE problem than anything else.

Yes, everything is digital. Easier for them to have the digital format, and being able to FORWARD those to their contacts. And for the contacts (record labels, artists, producers) to be able to listen to a small part of a song, and either put it aside to re-listen or junk it.
Imagine being an artist on the road, who gets several digital pitches during the week while they are on the bus. and traveling from stop to stop. They are always in a song search, even the things they write. So it is a convienence and practicality issue. Has nothing to do with laziness. Has to do with THE WAY THINGS WORK.

Dave, now you have hit on another part of all of this. Economics. If you think of it from the "real world", imagine you are a songwriter charging a licencing fee for use of your song. In the perfect world and days of every one having record deals, the companies paid for that and charged it back to the artist.
Now that can add $100 or so per 1000 copies, and NO ONE IS PRINTING ONE THOUSAND COPIES.
And if you are an independent artist on a severe budget, are you going to PAY for use of a song, from a writer that you don't know, on a song you had no input on and might not even consider it as good as your own (REMEMBER EGO!!!!!) or are you going to record another one of your own?

Do 2, 3, 4, 5 songs. That can add up to an extra, $200-$500 songs per CD and most of those you are giving away.
So economics and EGO are two huge factors to less and less cuts. Also, people are now going back to SINGLES. Like in the 45's day.
See, people forget about that too. The standard of the industry USED to be SINGLES, not ALBUMS. Most people bought 45's because you could buy a ton of them for a few dollars, and they didn't have a bunch of songs you didn't like and pay for. An "A" side and "B" side. Most bands, artists, etc. didn't even GET album deals. One or two songs, UNDER THREE MINUTES. Closer to TWO MINUTES.

That was the majority of life up until ALBUM rock came in the 60's and 70's. Then one of the things that led to downloading was artist putting out CD's with one or two decent songs and ten-twelve bad ones.

Now, we are BACK to those days. Most people are doing LESS SONGS PER UNIT AND MORE SONGS OVERALL. You can release "SINGLES" every few weeks. Jeez, I'm doing these videos right now and there are HUNDREDS of songs I want to play, talk about, bring up, many that I have forgotten over the years. Getting requests for songs I have not played in 25 or 30 years. I'm even recording a NEW CD, that is almost all re-recorded versions of my most requested songs. How many "outside songs" am I doing?

ZERO!

So writers have got to see this from a broader context. They have to take into consideration:

Cost of product and practicality aspect in today's music marketplace.
Limited ways to MONETIZE physical product or songs themselves. (STREAMING)
ARTISTIC EGO, artists wanting to record their own songs and not even consider outside songs.
More competition from writers and artists themselves.
Inner connections and relationships of artists and songs. (INSIDE CUTS)
Less opportunities for songs in the first place.
Overall more artists, songs and LESS interested FANS for those songs.

So when you are approaching the idea of linking up with artists, you need to keep all this in mind.
Good subject though. Good discussion.

MAB

#1137649 - 02/22/18 06:33 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
Hooking up with anyone today is about a lost cause! I found a Link to a Publisher, in Nashville that after 14 years is starting up his Publishing Company again. They are taking songs. So I E-Mailed him for an address so I could send a submission. Hell, they want everything sent by E-Mail! I think everybody today wants everything up served to them on a Silver Platter. Now I ask you, if they are too lazy to accept songs on a CD for evaluation how are they going to send songs to a prospective Client? Somewhere thy are going to have to do some actual work, like going to the bank and depositing those "Huge" Royalty Checks and paying those songwriters. By E-Mail?

If you are going to cut down a tree you have to swing the ax, you can't phone it in. As some here know, I do have 15 of my songs on a Web Site where they can listen if they choose and go from there. And of course I have other songs. I don't have any of my song files in my computer or the lyric sheets. There is no one doing anything to speak of in Nashville anyway so it doesn't much matter. It isn't too hard to make a CD and mail it as I am set up to do all that. Of course someone recording and releasing a CD requires more than an E-mail. Maybe they've discovered how to make CD's and distributing them for sale. I still buy Commercial CD's once in a while!
Geronimo!

The irony Ray, is that you emailed this publisher asking to submit. Emailed. Yet when given the rules of submission, you don't wish to follow them. Some of your songs sit on a website, you can easily get these on your computer!

Here is why people want files emailed:

As Marc (MAB) stated, its a storage issue. 10 years ago, you could walk into a publisher, or say Fox Sports Music and see a wall of CDs that were marked for particular genres. Today, its all done in a computer with either iTunes, or some specialized database like Sound Miner or Sound Mouse. All the songs are kept on servers with Terabytes of space. All audio files get tagged with up to 40+ data fields of metadata. This helps reduce time trying to find songs. A simple search for tempos, keys, genres, etc, can find just the right song that a person is looking for in minutes instead of hours of sifting thru CDs.

Music is work. Almost everyone today gets their music mixed on computers, mastered on computers, files delivered on computers. Metadata takes time to do to an entire catalog, but once you have the spreadsheet set up, its much easier to do as each song is finished. The sheer simplicity of attaching an MP3 to an email with whatever relevant data is needed, is substantially easier than buying blank CDs, opening a CD burning program, putting a blank CD in a tray, pushing close, hitting burn, printing a special label, sticking it on the disc (with a decent tool to make it center correctly), putting it in a case, getting a bubble wrap mailer, going to the post office, getting postage, sealing the package, then sending it to arrive 2-3 days later.

Email, takes maybe 5 minutes max to compose, attach, send. Arrives in a matter of minutes to the recipient. Costs next to nothing and a huge savings in time. This why people want files emailed. Simplicity.

Back to the future:

BTW - Welcome to 2015, yes, I know it's 2018, but the CD went by the industry wayside about 5 years ago. Time to update or get left behind. Anecdotally, the only CD I've burned in the last 6 years was for the latest JPF awards. I even protested that I wanted to send digital files, but had to burn a CD. So if you want to share your songs on CDs, send them to the JPF awards!! (A little lite joke Brian). Otherwise the only optical discs I burn now are Blu Ray data backups of recording files. Always good to make multiple backups on various types of large storage devices.

Why complain:

I know it makes people feel better to complain about places like Nashville, LA, New York. But personally, I know people making things happen in each of those areas. They take the time to go there. They're open to working within the boundaries that the gatekeepers have set. Then when called upon - they deliver!

Another personal anecdote about working with songs: Once upon a time I was doing a daily blog called Single of the Day, where I wrote about songs that artists would submit to me. I had a submissions page, a set of rules and got a glut of music sent to me. A vast majority of people would follow the rules of submission. They got listened to. Anyone that didn't follow the rules, I deleted. Why? It took too much time to sift thru the people that followed the rules. Who knows, I might do it again. Because I actually had fun doing it (despite not making any money with it), and I did get to meet some bands right as they were getting signed and blowing up big.

Back on thread:

To bring this all back on to Barry's thread, I agree with Marc - get out and meet people. If you want a local artist to write a song with - go to an open mic. There's lots of people there. You might get lucky and see someone great, most might be ok, and then there will be a few that are either just starting out or not improving over time. But most everyone at an open mic will be wanting to connect with others and improve their material. That's THE easiest way to work locally with people.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1137651 - 02/22/18 06:52 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Jody,

As usual good information. It used to be very interesting You would walk into any publishers office and there would actually be FOUR OR FIVE stacks of CD's. One, about five feet tall, were songs and packages of people they didn't know and were to be thrown out. AFTER saving the packaging, cases, etc. Those went into boxes and were given to staff writers and friends to store their other CD's or their own pitches in.

There was another stack, about two or three feet high, of REFERRED CD's, from people they knew or had a connection with. Then there were probably two more stacks about a foot or so high, with songs they had HEARD or had to go BACK TO after listening. And a very small stack of actual pitches. So storage is a key.

Back in the "old days" where people were pitching all their songs on cassettes, they actually had people DEMAGNATIZING the tapes without ever listening. The blank tapes were given to writers like me to record their own songs.
NO UNSOLICITED MATERIAL, means it.

But the reasons are very real. Most songs are NOT VERY GOOD. They are not nessasarily bad, not nessasarily good, JUST AVERAGE. And this is where the rubber meets the road. You go with people you know, and referalls because most of those people are above average and are not going to waste your time. The average people out there are just not there in terms of ability.

This is really driven home in judging song contests. I have been a judge in THE JOHN LENNON contest, the NSAI contests, and many others. You start out trying to be very fair. You listen to about ten full songs. But then you have to go through TWO HUNDRED or more .And you can tell by the lyric sheets if the song is really going to be there or not. So after a little while, you start listening to the first verse and chorus. Then you barely even make it to the chorus. Because the songs JUST AREN'T THERE. The recordings ARE NOT THERE. The lyrics, the production are just very substandard.

That is because professionals don't do contests. They are not allowed to. Because almost all contest rules disqualify anyone that has had major label cuts. It is different when it is something like the Just Plain Folks AWARDS situation, as many of those are above the average and many of those people are at a diffrerent level because they are involved with an organization, so chances are they have had some reviews or input along the way. Most individual writers never do that.

So all of this, time, storage, inside connections, all come into play. It is a BUSINESS, and people who want to participate really do need to learn about it. Or be satisfied with where they are.

MAB

#1137655 - 02/22/18 09:17 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: RonnieDean]  
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TC Perkins Offline
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Originally Posted by RonnieDean
This is and ongoing problem.

...

Guys will always try to fix it for you. - and screw it up.

...


LOL, truer words have never been spoken! I KNOW you have been in bands simply by this comment...

--TC


If it has strings I will find a way to play it!

You can hear my tunes at https://soundcloud.com/tc-gypsy
#1137657 - 02/22/18 10:01 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Humm,
Stacks of CD's in publishers offices? Publishers can't be spending all their time pitching songs. You would think they would set aside some time to listen to the submissions. It reminds me of the story of a Photographer that died but had roll after roll of un processed film. Sometime you have to stop and smell the Roses. As stated, I do send people to the Web Site so they can listen to see if they want to hear more songs. It appears nobody has time because nobody is doing anything to speak of in the music business. So be it.


Ray E. Strode
#1137658 - 02/22/18 10:41 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: TC Perkins]  
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RonnieDean Offline
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Originally Posted by TC Perkins
Originally Posted by RonnieDean
This is and ongoing problem.

...

Guys will always try to fix it for you. - and screw it up.

...


LOL, truer words have never been spoken! I KNOW you have been in bands simply by this comment...

--TC


Actually nobody "crossed" me in bands. Except once one of our drummers said we sound like "Rons" band. As if that was a problem. :-)

My troubles with individuals changing song phrasing and such came when I started hiring people in later life to sing.

I thought if they were getting paid they would just do the job before them. - silly me I guess.

#1137674 - 02/23/18 01:47 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Stacks of CD's in publishers offices? Publishers can't be spending all their time pitching songs. You would think they would set aside some time to listen to the submissions. It reminds me of the story of a Photographer that died but had roll after roll of un processed film. Sometime you have to stop and smell the Roses. As stated, I do send people to the Web Site so they can listen to see if they want to hear more songs. It appears nobody has time because nobody is doing anything to speak of in the music business. So be it.

If only JPF had a smack my head emoji.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1137675 - 02/23/18 01:48 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Jody,

As usual good information. It used to be very interesting You would walk into any publishers office and there would actually be FOUR OR FIVE stacks of CD's. One, about five feet tall, were songs and packages of people they didn't know and were to be thrown out. AFTER saving the packaging, cases, etc. Those went into boxes and were given to staff writers and friends to store their other CD's or their own pitches in.

Thank you.

Yes, I thought it prudent to leave out the idea of the stacks - seeing as how its gone pretty much digital now. No more CDs. No more stacks.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1137689 - 02/23/18 10:46 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Definition of a successful road artist: A guy that buys $1000.00 of equipment, drives 500 miles to a Gig to make $50.00 Eureka!

Some want to make music in their computer, put it on some streaming service and rake in the dough. OK!


Ray E. Strode
#1137716 - 02/23/18 09:45 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
Hooking up with anyone today is about a lost cause! I found a Link to a Publisher, in Nashville that after 14 years is starting up his Publishing Company again. They are taking songs. So I E-Mailed him for an address so I could send a submission. Hell, they want everything sent by E-Mail! I think everybody today wants everything up served to them on a Silver Platter. Now I ask you, if they are too lazy to accept songs on a CD for evaluation how are they going to send songs to a prospective Client? Somewhere thy are going to have to do some actual work, like going to the bank and depositing those "Huge" Royalty Checks and paying those songwriters. By E-Mail?


I know this is Barry's initial post about how to hook up songs with local singers, but Ray opened the door to this off topic so I have to comment.

Several have commented about what they have see or heard to include Jody's excellent post. I am one of those who have lived the life of CD stacks by the thousands. When I first started as a music publisher in 2003, I was getting bucket loads of CDs. At first, I thought it was so cool that CDs where coming in from around the world. It soon turned out to be like Lucy and Ethel working at the chocolate factory. The CDs started piling up faster than I could get to them. Even if I wanted to listen to all of the songs on all of the CDs, it would take me away from the other work I had to do as a music publisher. Like pitching songs, etc, etc.. From 2003 to 2008 I literally had over 5,000 CD with a lot of them I never listened to. I would, from time to time, pluck through them hoping to find that diamond in the rough. I purchased storage bins and started stacking them in the garage. It was a literal nightmare.

It's easy to get pissed at those you want to send your music to because your stacks of CDs are just your own. Maybe a few hundred which you can probably sore on a book shelf with no problem. Put yourself in the other shoes and you will understand this reality and would welcome e-mail submissions.

It was a blessing when sending MP3s and links to songs took over. As a music supervisor, I still get a ton of music sent to me. I rarely get CDs now and I'm glad. I would never have time to do my job as a music supervisor. A good example is the music submissions I received for the film "Call Me Brother" that I posted on JPF. I received just over 800 songs. If all those songs were submitted to me on CDs, I would still be listening to them trying to find songs that I felt where right for the film and that I could sent to the director. Also, the time it would take to rip the songs from the CDs, then burn them to a different CD and do everything necessary to mail the CD to the director (who would be pissed if he received a CD).

It's not about being lazy. It's about being as efficient as you can so that you can end each day accomplishing as much as you can. My music supervision income is my only source of income. If I can't work on multiple films at the same time, I can't survive in this business. If I spend most of my day dealing with CDs, I will not survive. Trust me, I don't have any lazy days.

Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Back in the "old days" where people were pitching all their songs on cassettes, they actually had people DEMAGNATIZING the tapes without ever listening. The blank tapes were given to writers like me to record their own songs.
NO UNSOLICITED MATERIAL, means it.


In 1993-94 I worked at Mercury Nashville and met their A&R guy, Carson Chamberlain. I was in his office one day and saw a huge box of cassette tapes. The box was about 3 feet high (maybe 3x2x2) and almost filled to the top with those cassettes. I said to him that it must have taken you forever to listen to all those tapes. He said that box was the tapes he had not listen to yet. The ones he did listen to where wiped and recycled. Also, the cassettes in the box where the ones that were labeled correctly with the senders contact information. Those not labeled correctly were ignored...as probably many of those in the box. Carson said that it is so rare that those submissions result in a "cutable" song.

I was a wanna be songwriter and that was a sucker punch to the gut. I knew my tape would never be heard. However, I loved the business so much I followed the business/administrative career path.

So, my whole point here is, it's not about being lazy or not caring about the songwriter or the business itself or even all about making money. It's just the factual nature of the business. You have to adapt to it or get left behind and you have to really love it enough to weather the storms.

My 2 cents on the songs to singers topic is go to live shows and collaborate. Live shows will really let you hear when someone can really sing.

#1137718 - 02/23/18 10:07 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Well,
I have 15 of my songs on a Web Site where people looking for songs can go and listen. If they want a Submission then they can let me know. I don't send anything unless it is asked for. I used to subscribe to a few Tip Sheets. I don't remember any requests from Mercury Records. I would guess those were from Nashville Music Publishers.Today practically no one is asking for material. And I didn't send you anything Dominique because I don't have anything you could use.

I do however have a Story I wrote recently Entitled CALL BACK. It is a Military Story. So far the only ones that want to publish it want a ton of money. No can do. Thanks.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 02/23/18 10:11 PM.

Ray E. Strode
#1137719 - 02/23/18 10:42 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Dominique H. Preyer Offline
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Dominique H. Preyer  Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
I have 15 of my songs on a Web Site where people looking for songs can go and listen. If they want a Submission then they can let me know.


Ray,

How do "they" know you have those 15 songs? If I wasn't a JPF member and I was looking for music, how would I get to your music?

Everyday I get 10 to 15 e-mails from songwriters that search for music supervisors. Many land on my website and find my submission policy then they submit their music accordingly. I also get a lot of random submissions from people that do not visit my website. The ones that I gravitate to the most are the ones that have a very short message and a link to SoundCloud, Spotify, YouTube and other similar streaming platforms. I also get MP3s and links to Dropbox and other cloud storage sites.

I really like links to SoundCloud and Spotify because if I like a song and I feel it has potential for placements, I put it in a playlist. If I have a playlist for a film I'm currently working on, and I think one of the submitted songs will work in that film, I'll add it to that playlist.

Being able to do this on my smartphone, makes it possible for me to listen while I'm away from my office. Easy accessibility to your music will make it more appealing to anyone interested in your music. It also has to fit what they are currently working on.

#1137724 - 02/23/18 11:31 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Dominique H. Preyer]  
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joro Offline
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Originally Posted by Dominique H. Preyer
[quote=Ray E. Strode]Well,
The ones that I gravitate to the most are the ones that have a very short message and a link to SoundCloud, Spotify, YouTube and other similar streaming platforms. I also get MP3s and links to Dropbox and other cloud storage sites.




https://soundcloud.com/joro61/jorobeautifulpeoplenovox3192

good I think. You tell me.

#1137725 - 02/23/18 11:56 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Ray says,
"You would think they would set aside some time to listen to the submissions."

Ray, I wonder do you know anything about how publishers get to "be" publishers? I'm not talking about the people who throw up a web site on the Internet, "music libraries" that send out various announcements all the time (usually ending up asking for money, for very little results), or the general "schemes and scams" we are all aware of, that lead the league in complaints from anyone who has ever had contact with them.

I'm talking about REAL PUBLISHERS, who are established in the industry, who actually GET cuts, establish reputations, build writer's careers, promote and launch artists, and are the one's EVERYONE is trying to get their music to, and usually complaining about, because they don't accept UNSOLICITED MATERIAL. Actual people who do this for a living.

An average publisher in Nashville, New York or LA, have been in the business between 10-25 years. They usually start out as writers or artists themselves. They find those avenues either don't work out for them, or they DO WORK OUT and with revenue they earn from hits, they invest in buying their own publishing rights back after big hits, and start their own companies. Usually that gets more money going OUT than coming IN.

Many have multiple jobs. They run studios, develop and promote artists, deal with writers, and juggle OTHER businesses that have nothing to do with music. They are also contractors, plumbers, electricians, etc. It is often a while between cuts, and the majority of cuts don't pay much of anything. Unless you have a top twenty song with huge airplay Nationwide, you are likely not to be able to pay for the original demo.

They work 13-15 hour days, getting up in the morning, making their way to offices, dealing with emails, phone calls, and yes, listening to music. They have multiple songs they are working and pitching at anyone time, usually a standard list of about 30 songs they are trying to pitch. They have their own writers who they have to meet with, usually a couple of artists they are working with, friends they have to do favors for (people who helped them along the way) and rarely have a minute free. Every where they go, they are besieged by people trying to give them cards, CDs, get appointments. Which is why they keep very low profiles when they are out.

They have continuous business meetings, pitch meetings, trying to keep everything going. They spend almost as much time in social functions, number one parties, organization meetings, (most belong to various social groups that have regular meetings to discuss the industry, artists, changes in laws, things that affect every one's bottom line. They have to go to shows at night, to see artists they represent, or other publishers, producers and label events to keep their political contacts up. They have to travel for business and political connections. The various other coasts and towns for functions. ASCAP and BMI conferences, South By Southwest in Austin, BMI Song fest in Key West, Frank Brown Festival in Fla. They are on the constant lookout for investors. Because it is an endless drain of money. It takes years, sometimes decades before anything actually pays off. And even if you have a big hit, most of it usually goes to pay off debts incurred over the years.

And yes, they do listen to music, but only from people they are working with or have associations with. They don't have time to go to web sites, and they have so much music they can't already get through (see Dominique's description above) There is no reason to. They can't place all they already have and their is no physical way to listen to anything not referred to them. They constantly find new artists and songs through the natural course of their lives, so they are not going to go outside.They are also not going to take chance on a lawsuit from someone they don't know who thinks that they are the only ones who ever wrote the words "I LOVE YOU " in a song before, or used the "A,D' E" chord progression. They don't have time or interest in deluded songwriters who have no clue about anything and want to get into a shouting match about why everything they do is wrong and how big idiots they are.

With all due respect Barry, I listened to your "Symphony" song, and I have to be honest, there is nothing there. The song is very weak, the production is very dated and I don't hear it appealing to any artist in today's market. And that is what they usually get from outside people who are really not clued in to the modern marketplace. Not to mention that artists are writing their own songs, and have no interest in outside songs. And the publishers are trying to PITCH SONGS, not get new ones from people who are just not there. And they are not there to train writers.

Basically they are slammed. That is why they go with people they know and have a vested interest in. That is the real world.

Then there are other things you have to be aware of and another REAL reason why it is so important to BUILD relationships. Because without those you don't get heard. Period.

I moved to Nashville in 1988. Every office had a security camera and offices were all locked. Music Row is very close, with small houses, medium sized business, and huge offices. They are all next door to each other in an area four blocks wide and eight blocks long. That is the principal way Nashville was founded. Up until the mid 80's, people kind of wandered around, guitars in hand, going in and out of offices, and kind of being able to play songs.
Then, sometime around 1985, an incident happened that changed every thing. A very well known man, Jim Ed Norman, who was a producer, label head and publisher, was walking into his office at Warner Brothers. AS he got to the door, a pick up truck pulled up, and a man inside yelled out, "Hey I'm looking for Jim Ed Norman." Apparently, he didn't know it was Jim Ed he was talking to. Jim Ed said that he thought he was inside, but what did the man want?
The man claimed he had "mailed some songs in and wanted to know why they hadn't been cut. As Jim Ed looked into the truck, he noticed leaning on the seat was a shotgun. He walked in called security and the guy was arrested.
The next day, walls went up, security cameras were everywhere and guards were the norm. And the "No unsolicited material" signs went up too.

There are a lot of things you have to consider when you are trying to do this. But yes. They do listen to music.
You just have to have music they want to listen to and become friends with them.

And when it comes to the subject of this thread, meeting artists. You have to do that when they are unknown. That is why you have to go find them.

MAB


Last edited by Marc Barnette; 02/24/18 12:05 AM.
#1137741 - 02/24/18 10:18 AM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,220
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well, Humm, Aw,
Where do I start. Publishers sometimes request submissions. They have to listen, Big Surprise! to see if they want to sign the song. Now moving on, I just finished Re-Reading Jimmy Bowen's Book, ROUGH MIX. He was a Label Head at several Nashville Record Labels about the time Garth Brooks came on the scene. Now, a bit of information. When a Record Label starts producing a Release for an Artist they assign a producer. Clear so far? Good. It is the job of the producer and maybe the Artist to find appropriate songs to record and release.

DQ, you probably were in the Office of a Producer. I once sent a submission to a request in a Tip Sheet. They only requested 2 songs. That was all you could send. Well I got a call back to send 8 more songs from the producer. After some time I called the producer to see what happened. While none of my songs made it, he said they went thru 2000 songs for the Album. So a producer may have stacks and stacks of submissions they go thru for their final selections.

Humm. That proffers a thought. If you are going to take on a job, be prepared to do it! Now I know any job worth doing requires some effort. News Flash. Writing good songs takes some effort!

DQ, I send prospects to the Web Site by giving them the Link. The link is listed under New Web Site on the Industry board. It's been there a while. Good luck.


Ray E. Strode
#1137821 - 02/25/18 01:05 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Dominique H. Preyer]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,809
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by Dominique H. Preyer
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well,
Hooking up with anyone today is about a lost cause! I found a Link to a Publisher, in Nashville that after 14 years is starting up his Publishing Company again. They are taking songs. So I E-Mailed him for an address so I could send a submission. Hell, they want everything sent by E-Mail! I think everybody today wants everything up served to them on a Silver Platter. Now I ask you, if they are too lazy to accept songs on a CD for evaluation how are they going to send songs to a prospective Client? Somewhere thy are going to have to do some actual work, like going to the bank and depositing those "Huge" Royalty Checks and paying those songwriters. By E-Mail?


I know this is Barry's initial post about how to hook up songs with local singers, but Ray opened the door to this off topic so I have to comment.

Several have commented about what they have see or heard to include Jody's excellent post. I am one of those who have lived the life of CD stacks by the thousands. When I first started as a music publisher in 2003, I was getting bucket loads of CDs. At first, I thought it was so cool that CDs where coming in from around the world. It soon turned out to be like Lucy and Ethel working at the chocolate factory. The CDs started piling up faster than I could get to them. Even if I wanted to listen to all of the songs on all of the CDs, it would take me away from the other work I had to do as a music publisher. Like pitching songs, etc, etc.. From 2003 to 2008 I literally had over 5,000 CD with a lot of them I never listened to. I would, from time to time, pluck through them hoping to find that diamond in the rough. I purchased storage bins and started stacking them in the garage. It was a literal nightmare.

It's easy to get pissed at those you want to send your music to because your stacks of CDs are just your own. Maybe a few hundred which you can probably sore on a book shelf with no problem. Put yourself in the other shoes and you will understand this reality and would welcome e-mail submissions.

It was a blessing when sending MP3s and links to songs took over. As a music supervisor, I still get a ton of music sent to me. I rarely get CDs now and I'm glad. I would never have time to do my job as a music supervisor. A good example is the music submissions I received for the film "Call Me Brother" that I posted on JPF. I received just over 800 songs. If all those songs were submitted to me on CDs, I would still be listening to them trying to find songs that I felt where right for the film and that I could sent to the director. Also, the time it would take to rip the songs from the CDs, then burn them to a different CD and do everything necessary to mail the CD to the director (who would be pissed if he received a CD).

It's not about being lazy. It's about being as efficient as you can so that you can end each day accomplishing as much as you can. My music supervision income is my only source of income. If I can't work on multiple films at the same time, I can't survive in this business. If I spend most of my day dealing with CDs, I will not survive. Trust me, I don't have any lazy days.

Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Back in the "old days" where people were pitching all their songs on cassettes, they actually had people DEMAGNATIZING the tapes without ever listening. The blank tapes were given to writers like me to record their own songs.
NO UNSOLICITED MATERIAL, means it.


In 1993-94 I worked at Mercury Nashville and met their A&R guy, Carson Chamberlain. I was in his office one day and saw a huge box of cassette tapes. The box was about 3 feet high (maybe 3x2x2) and almost filled to the top with those cassettes. I said to him that it must have taken you forever to listen to all those tapes. He said that box was the tapes he had not listen to yet. The ones he did listen to where wiped and recycled. Also, the cassettes in the box where the ones that were labeled correctly with the senders contact information. Those not labeled correctly were ignored...as probably many of those in the box. Carson said that it is so rare that those submissions result in a "cutable" song.

I was a wanna be songwriter and that was a sucker punch to the gut. I knew my tape would never be heard. However, I loved the business so much I followed the business/administrative career path.

So, my whole point here is, it's not about being lazy or not caring about the songwriter or the business itself or even all about making money. It's just the factual nature of the business. You have to adapt to it or get left behind and you have to really love it enough to weather the storms.

My 2 cents on the songs to singers topic is go to live shows and collaborate. Live shows will really let you hear when someone can really sing.


5000 CDs in 5 years? Try dealing with 42.700 in one fell swoop like we got in 2008 which took us until the end of 2009 to whittle down to awards nominees and winners. We had over 10,000 volunteers working on it and all were heard and eventual winners decided. This time around, however, we only got 17,400 or so albums but had far fewer people helping, especially at the end (i.e.now) and finishing is at a snails pace as peoples lives and times are consumed on doing everything but listening to music. I personally heard portions of every submitted CD just as I did the 42K but I also gave every waking possible moment to it and this year I have health issues in the family that have taken all my focus since Summer and even though it is all down to the best of the best, finding qualified people with time is the hardest it has every been. It seems that music industry pros and even successful music creators who once had 10's of hours to donate to help now don't have 10's of seconds to listen to half of one song. That is why people are fooling themselves trying to get bands who manage to get a real paid gig to listen to your song (let alone record a vocal) is pointless.

But there IS one hopeful suggestion I can make that sometimes works. Go to an open mic (if you can even find one near you) and sit down and LISTEN closely to every performer and critique on a note pad your thoughts on their song, their performance of it, the lyrics etc. Be respectful and forward looking (i.e. say "here's something you did that I liked which I think you could emphasize going forward etc. and be 100% sincere no matter what feedback you give, and perhaps among some positive suggestions (always offer a suggested solution to any problem you bring up) you can offer an area they need to improve rather than just make better. You do that for all of them (you'll learn a lot while you listen, something too few people do) and you'll quickly become known to all and folks will become curious about what you think. You will have offered them something of value (i.e. sincere constructive feedback) even if no one else was listening but simply waiting their turn to play, typical at open mics, we've all been there. Be sure to tell them you are only doing this as an exercise to improve your own work but thought it might be helpful to them as well (which is true at that point). Do this a few times, ignore any naysayers politely but keep a look out for a relative newbie with talent enough for you vocally and in addition to your feedback, tell them not only your suggestions or what you liked, but that you'd really love to have them sing one of your songs you think their voice would song really cool on. It's amazing how flattering honest praise is as we all so rarely get it. They may not be interested, but that's fine, just keep on GIVING them something and I promise you the investment of YOUR time first WILL pay off in ways you can't imagine, PLUS you'll eventually find a vocalist to work with. Even if they say they are too busy or whatever, you can always say "I respect your time very much and can afford to pay you X (don't over promise, just offer something reasonable that you can afford and will help grease the wheel for someone who has a good voice. In many cases this will be the first time someone has ever had a chance to earn real money (of ANY amount) for their singing. Give that a try and even if that great voice never shows up, you'll learn more about songwriting and how you like songs sung, but also may offer some helpful feedback to artists STARVING for it. THEY might even pay YOU to listen to more of their stuff and offer feedback.

That's an optimistic tact to take. Sure, people can shoot it down, but after doing what I do for 33 years and counting, it works in the long run and often in the very short run as well.

Good luck Barry!

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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Just Plain Folks
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Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#1137824 - 02/25/18 01:22 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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That is excellent advice Brian. People HAVE to understand, that you HAVE to find artists at the BEGINNINGS of their careers, not in the middle or the end. The open mics are the first steps, the second by invited writers shows, or small club concerts, bars, pubs, clubs. Writers have to do AS MUCH WORK on researching their local music scenes, finding up and coming artists, AS WELL as the online social networking stuff, as they will EVER do on writing, recording, songs. Find LOCAL and REGIONAL artists, who might be coming through their areas. And of course, attending SOME FORM of songwriters get together's, NSAI, JPF, or some local songwriting chapter, is ESSENTIAL in getting around other writers, form relationships, partnerships, etc.

As you indicated, the VAST NUMBERS OF SONGS AND ARTISTS don't allow for everyone to get heard. Your 42,000 is a pretty high, but normal number for people involved in listening to music. Contests, awards, etc are always going through packages, mp 3's, CD's, whatever the entity needs.
I know you know much of what a publisher goes through. Same thing. Every day. Day in and day out.

You actually should be applauded for LISTENING to outside things people mail you. Most don't. You've held a pretty good site together here. I hope every one appreciates it as they should and take the information they get to be applied in their own careers.

MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 02/25/18 01:23 PM.
#1137827 - 02/25/18 01:37 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Indianapolis, IN USA
I don't think 42,000 albums and 565K songs have ever been done before nor will ever be done by anyone in one cycle again. But certainly big publishers get that in a year as well but have a wide paid staff to deal with it (such as place it unceremoniously into their vast circular files). I only recently started to dispose of the 150K CD's we've had in our garage, office and basement for decades now. Never could give them away even 12-14 years ago when we started to try... no one wanted them OR they simply couldn't handle them (like libraries who have to carefully catalog everything). College radio, no one wanted them anywhere.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1137828 - 02/25/18 01:42 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,073
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Yeah, that is pretty high. I was referring to major publishers, contests, film and television libraries, etc. They get a lot of stuff, but almost everything is thrown away unless there is a personal connection. That is why. Too much stuff out there.
Again, you are to be applauded.

MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 02/25/18 01:43 PM.
#1137923 - 02/26/18 08:09 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I only recently started to dispose of the 150K CD's we've had in our garage, office and basement for decades now. Never could give them away even 12-14 years ago when we started to try... no one wanted them OR they simply couldn't handle them (like libraries who have to carefully catalog everything). College radio, no one wanted them anywhere.

Its difficult to dispose of them. Recycling centers want all parts of a CD separated, the paper, the plastic, etc. That [naughty word removed] takes time just to recycle.

The irony is how vested people (songwriters, musicians, artists) still are in a technology that a lot of consumers don't want. I still hear people talking about releasing CDs. Yet, here's more proof its a waste of time.

Brian's in-depth message about open mics is exactly what I meant when I made the suggestion Barry.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1138497 - 03/12/18 02:21 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Germain Brunet Offline
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Germain Brunet  Offline
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I think it would be a great idea to have a Forum on here where non-writing singers can post looking for songs. I wonder if this is something that Mr. Whitney might perhaps look at setting up. I now it's a tough thing getting artists to record your songs because so many of them write their own material.

Germain

#1138509 - 03/12/18 06:39 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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TamsNumber4 Offline
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Barry, your original question is "hook up with local singers", I will address that as I am a singer songwriter. There are folks that go to open mics I go to and eventually ask me to work on songs with them. Open mics are a nice way to meet people who are all working on their music. I also co-run a songwriting group and we have a lyricist in the group who doesn't play or sing and we have all worked on his lyrics also. I was told when I only worked on music and collaborations online (at JPF, The Muse and FAWM) that I would not have that same opportunity locally, but it isn't the case, but you have to get out and learn about your local scene and meet people and support them too, I have found it to be very beneficial in moving forward with my songwriting and growing my contacts and opportunities. Just sharing my own experience.


http://tammyjann.com/
https://soundcloud.com/tamsnumber4
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1038504

Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it...
Professor Albus Dumbledore




#1138522 - 03/12/18 11:29 PM Re: Any Ideas How to hook up songs with local singers [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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