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#1137276 - 02/16/18 08:28 AM How Important is Your Talent ?  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Do you just write songs or try and write songs that mean something to somebody?
Do we have some to our talent or am I way off here?

#1137280 - 02/16/18 09:58 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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When I was younger and all into Rush and that silly integrity of music stuff I would have written to be profound. After listening to pop music, country or otherwise where clearly it wasn't bands with vision, but products being produced like cookies. I like cookies. They make me happy.

Ok, so I changed my focus and now dial numbers to see who picks up. That is to say, I deliberately try to focus on where a good portion of people are without being a downer. - that's very important in my opinion. Now, that said, I try to hit the bulls eye but suck at darts.

So for me, that's the challenge.

#1137286 - 02/16/18 10:37 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: RonnieDean]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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I can't just write songs about nothing anymore....just ME.

#1137288 - 02/16/18 11:13 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Thing is you can't know if it means anything to anyone until after its written, recorded, and heard.

I k ow Taylor Swift said her song Mean, was written about a critic who slammed her talent. She had never dreamed that it would be an anthem for bullying.

There are many examples of that, and misinterpreted meanings.

You really don't know if anybody will relate or be moved by your song.

All you can do is write what feels honest to you and hope others get it

#1137291 - 02/16/18 12:36 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I k ow Taylor Swift said her song Mean, was written about a critic who slammed her talent. She had never dreamed that it would be an anthem for bullying.

The critic it was a response to was Bob Lefsetz.


Jody Whitesides
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www.jodywhitesides.com
#1137292 - 02/16/18 12:39 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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I only care if it moves ME.

#1137293 - 02/16/18 12:49 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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I say "How come ya gotta be so mean" from time to time, because I heard that song. Good track too. Rings lots of numbers I'll bet.

#1137294 - 02/16/18 01:00 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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The songwriting "educators" say to stick to universal themes...love, heartbreak, friendship, down on my luck but looking up at the stars songs. Party songs etc.. As if we weren't sounding generic enough...almost always when you try to do that it shows.

The greats are the ones who can diagnose a situation and nail it. they somehow have a way of connecting without trying to.

#1137295 - 02/16/18 01:12 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Songwriting Educators? Are you kidding...Who are they ???

#1137302 - 02/16/18 01:47 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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I HAVE to write about something that I'm passionate about or I'm too lazy to write it. Forgive me for speaking what must be blasphemy for a songwriters forum, but I don't like writing songs. I have to force myself to write, and after a few lines I get distracted or start playing something I have already finished. My total completed song count is less than 20 in the last 10 years. Some people write more than 20 as part of a song a day for a month challenge. My partially completed song count is probably a over 100.

So a silly love song won't inspire me enough. (yes Sir Paul, i HAVE had enough of silly love songs) Something political might. but even political songs I start tend to run out of lines and passion before they are done.

More than anything, it needs to be something not done before, or not done much, or not done the way I'm going to do it. Sometimes a silly phrase has such a ring to it than I can build a song around it. Catfish Lips, Basset Hound Trees. For those songs, the lyrics just come to me because they are fun.

my latest unfinished/may never get finished song is inspired by the phrase Weasel Crap
my latest political inspired lyrics which are actually a paraphrase of a popular song that I made about the NRA
its sad that even an atrocity as bad as yet another mass school shooting can only squeeze a partial song out of me, but thanks to the NRA, there will be plenty more opportunities for me to get riled up enough to finish it.

Barry, you inspire me. Both in the quantity and the excellent quality of your work. and the goodness and compassion that overflows from your heart.

I will try harder because there are things that must be said and heard


David Hunkins
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I'm a 99 percent inspiration man living in a 99 percent perspiration world..
#1137303 - 02/16/18 01:49 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Barry, anyone who teaches at Berkely or any other commercial songwriting course, seminar or the like.

There is solid evidence for it, but it's hard enough to stand out from the pack as is. http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-03-19...s-of-musics-1-hits-in-the-past-50-years/

#1137307 - 02/16/18 03:18 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Moosesong]  
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Thanks Man.....

#1137308 - 02/16/18 03:19 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Thanks Man.....

#1137309 - 02/16/18 03:20 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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With all due respect I think this is bogus. If they knew how to teach a hit they'd have one. It's just more ways of taking newbie's money....Sorry but that's what I believe.

#1137317 - 02/16/18 07:17 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Originally Posted by Barry David Butler
With all due respect I think this is bogus. If they knew how to teach a hit they'd have one. It's just more ways of taking newbie's money....Sorry but that's what I believe.

Songwriting teachers don't necessarily teach how to write a hit, especially at colleges and universities. I attended Berklee, and Musician's Institute. Both had courses on songwriting. What they tend to teach is structure concepts, chord progressions, how to manipulate melodies, and theory.

But hey, you can believe what you want. There is no law that says you have to understand music in order to write a song.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1137326 - 02/17/18 12:59 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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I rarely sit down and think "I am going to write a song about X" or "this song is going to have complex harmonic progression that will wow even jazz guys" or whatever is the trend of the moment. I just write what I hear. That's not to say I don't ever guide my energies but most songs I write kinda just 'happen' whether it's a vocal melody I sing to my dog (yes I actually do this, lol) or some riff on the guitar or chord progression on the piano that gets the juices going. Most of the time right when the song 'seed' sprouts I already know what it is about and a handful of lyrics to go with the music. Then I just expand on it.

I don't know about you guys but I have a zillion ideas for songs, and have no problems coming up with harmonic progressions, melodies, lyrics, etc. I find the hard part is honing these into a good song and picking which ones to do.

Peace,
TC


If it has strings I will find a way to play it!

You can hear my tunes at https://soundcloud.com/tc-gypsy
#1137327 - 02/17/18 01:53 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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What's bogus Barry? The study that shows the common themes in hit songs for past 50 years? Or somebody teaching songwriting?

You need to re-examine your belief that you cant learn anything. You have been learning since you first heard a song. You learn by listening and then doing. I agree that alot of the "teaching songwriting" industry is about making money, but that doesn't mean you cant learn anything.

I started writing pretty good melodies after a long time of writing bad ones. Eventually the pegs start fitting in the holes. Not sure why it happens I guess because your ear develops with practice.

For me, talent is the initial idea, the one line, title, or melody, musical riff, but where do you go from there? That's where craft and learned experience take over.

#1137333 - 02/17/18 09:12 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Sure craft needs to be worked on but I'm done paying some so called expert to teach me how to write a hit or a good song. I just don't agree but I respect your opinion. We have the gift but obviously must work on the craft and listen to the radio a lot. I went to nursing school but never really learned how to be a nurse until I got in a hospital room with a real patient.....Hey we all have our opinions and that is Great!

#1137337 - 02/17/18 10:58 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Disagreeing is fine, I'm just not sure what you"re disagreeing with me about?

I didn't say somebody could teach you to write a hit...least I do t think I did.

Even if you could steal somebody's hit caliber song, how could you make it a hit? You couldnt, you wouldn't have the means to make it a hit.

That has been and will always be the problem, more than writing the hit.

So even if some coach worked with you, how would you know if it worked or not, when you can't get the song in front of the right people?

And the thing about hits, they aren't always great songs, alot of times they are mediocre at best.

#1137338 - 02/17/18 11:17 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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I'm not interested in writing a hit song anymore as I'm way past that unreality.

#1137340 - 02/17/18 11:35 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Lol, a lot of people are not even interested in writing any more....

after 200 or more songs, what else do you have to say?

Even the greats of all time hit a wall and don't write anything great any more.

Mention any major artist, Neil Young, Billy Joel, Elton John, The Boss,
Sting, Stones, The Who, u2, James Taylor, Dylan and that's a very short list.

But none of those artists have better songs today than they wrote 25 years ago or more.

Even somebody recent like Taylor Swift, or Green Day, or Foo Fighters, they don't keep writing better stuff, they usually write much weaker stuff.

So must apply to us as well., if we started writing songs 25 years ago, our best stuff is probably behind us, we just never had ANY hit at all.

But on the bright side, The Yankees are loaded this year....

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 02/17/18 11:37 AM.
#1137348 - 02/17/18 01:22 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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That's why I stopped as I have nothing more to say...Getting Stanton is ridiculous....I'm a Rays fan but grew up a Yankee Fan....I LOVE Baseball and can't wait for opening day.

#1137357 - 02/17/18 05:04 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Originally Posted by Barry David Butler
That's why I stopped as I have nothing more to say...Getting Stanton is ridiculous....I'm a Rays fan but grew up a Yankee Fan....I LOVE Baseball and can't wait for opening day.


Yeah, Go Rockies. smile

#1137473 - 02/19/18 03:08 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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For me, I was just making up lyrics that I related to. Then, after time, I was aware that I was also secretly writing for others to think about, (Imagined Listeners). As if a known artist.

Talent? Or, just being aware there could be others hearing what I am writing? (As if they were hearing the song in progress right THEN)!

I think it's just what we all probably have, "imagination". And, the more we do it, the better we get at it, like anything else.

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
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#1137479 - 02/19/18 04:24 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Hi Barry:

Interesting topic. I assume you mean "talent" as it relates to music and/or music creation?

At the top of my list of people who possess all the talent listed below, a writer of more than 2000 songs, who continues to write... would be Willie Nelson. Not all of his creations are "country."

Depending upon what you want to do with your music... if you indeed, create songs or lyrics or compositions... talent is very important. One needs imagination to come up with ideas for a song. Folks should never forget that a song is only a song when it "marries" a lyric to a melody. There is no formula for which should come first but for most songs, the melody will be the most important... but that is not always the case. I do not mean to imply that lyrics (the message of the song in words) are not important. A melody all by it's self is only a composition. Both are capable of standing alone but can achieve more impact in the entertainment world as a song.

Some seem to relate a lyric to a poem but they have significant differences... as well as similarities. Both must rhyme! A lyric must "handshake" with the music in all the right places... where a poem is written to it's own "beat."

Our resident composer, John Lawrence Schick, would probably tell us about the dominant factor of importance of the melody because he makes a pretty good living out of creating melodies for use in films, advertising, documentaries, etc. (Can you tell I admire him and his talent very much?)

Then, there is the perspective of the artist or in most cases, the performer or vocalist involved in executing the lyric and melody as the music is written. They require an entirely different type of talent. Then, imagine an individual who possesses the combined talents of "all of the above!"

1. The ability to write melodies. (This usually means "Play an instrument"... hopefully well!)
2. The ability to write a meaningful lyric.
3. The ability to "marry" both of these ingredients and make a song.
4. The ability to sing your own creation and capture the imagination and memory of the listener.

Finally, it takes talent to record, edit, master, market and do all the little things required to get a song ready to present to the public in the form of a CD, Record, MP3 File or whatever format is required for "the sales department" to generate income for all concerned.

Anyone know of a store where you can purchase all of these many talents a successful songwriter needs? LOL!

Best of luck to everyone who aspires to any of these important talents.

----Dave

#1137483 - 02/19/18 05:59 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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I just use one of theses...$99.99 at Guitar Satan. bite[Linked Image]

#1137484 - 02/19/18 06:04 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: joro]  
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Originally Posted by joro
I just use one of theses...$99.99 at Guitar Satan. bite[Linked Image]


I have one of those!
That's how I got where I am today. Um yeah.... today.

#1137487 - 02/19/18 07:16 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Most missed what I meant. As I got older and have cancer my songwriting took on a new a different direction. Not sure why but I had this weird God Experience I told about and from then I just started to use my talents to more serious subjects. I took on The Holocaust and Different People, and Hunger and Homeless and Jesus songs and spiritual songs. SO that's sort of what happened to me as I decided to write more significant songs than party or romance songs....Although I have many like that. I wrote about No More War and Peace Songs.....SO that's what I meant. Do we have any responsible to use our gifts and talents to more meaningful songs or not....I guess most will just think oh there he goes again...lol

#1137493 - 02/19/18 07:54 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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No I don't think there he goes again.

I should I suppose, but I guess I'm kind of a country tramp where the gitar players are. My hobby is trying to do it (write, mix produce) like they do. Not that I'm even close.And I'm partial to mixing stuff upbeat with drums and all. I'm already saved so there nothing I can do to enhance that.

And no, post away.
For all it's members it's pretty sleepy in here.

Last edited by RonnieDean; 02/19/18 08:15 PM.
#1137494 - 02/19/18 08:49 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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No, nothing wrong with yet another what if...thread! Your question probably should have been
How serious do you take your songs?

For me, my heroes were artists that had something "bigger" to say than typical pop material

But they also managed to mix in a lot of fun stuff too.

Springsteen could go from Adam Raised a Cain to... Out in the street

But I think you need balance

Dylan seems so dead serious that it's almost a turn off sometimes

The Ramones are fun all the time, and I dig that too

Van Halen never made me wanna cry, but they should rocked my arse off, same thing with Ac/dc

Chuck Berry still makes me smile, but so does Johnny Cash

Not every artist is capable of full swings in emotion. Boss, TP, Billy' The who had their share of quirky numbers early on

All music serves some sort of purpose, even if using a cd rom as a beer placer

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 02/19/18 08:51 PM.
#1137495 - 02/19/18 09:05 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Not even Jamies Cryin? - That was a real weeper.

#1137545 - 02/20/18 08:04 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Using my Itunes sales as a gage...my musical talent is of no importance at all, except to me and maybe Mike Z, my wife and a couple of people here or there.

Even though I've come to terms with that...I don't wanna stop. I like doing it.

So...eff anyone who thinks that I should. wink

#1137547 - 02/20/18 08:20 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Dude, did someone say you should?

#1137548 - 02/20/18 08:33 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: RonnieDean]  
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Originally Posted by RonnieDean
Dude, did someone say you should?


Yes.

A couple of times.

EX-wife (emphasis on EX) was the 1st and I did. Put my guitar up (Strat) for about 25 years. ;(
But I didn't sell it. smile

Ronnie, If you somehow took my remark personally...don't. It was directed at my ex wife.
It's been almost 40 years, but I still enjoy disliking and besmirching her memory. wink

#1137550 - 02/20/18 08:51 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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no no no. can i hear your stuff somewhere?

Last edited by RonnieDean; 02/20/18 08:52 PM.
#1137551 - 02/20/18 08:57 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Well Martin, talent is not one size fits all. And you'd probably write a lot better, if you had a reason to. Imagine you had a huge audience, had an album out already. Chances are your going to write like your life depended on it.

Not to mention so many great people helping your cause with artistry, musicianship, engineering, producing.

Writing for yourself, which is what most of us do, will make you creativiely lazy, cause the dialogue In Your head says...does it really matter?

They say that greatness is what you do when no one is watching, but people with real music careers know damn well somebody is going to be watching/listening eventually

I know for my own self, i would make a few great albums, I absolutely know it, but at the moment there is no need to, and I think that handcuffs me

Not everybody in music has world class talent, some have very little talent

Take heart

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 02/20/18 09:01 PM.
#1137570 - 02/21/18 07:53 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: RonnieDean]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Originally Posted by RonnieDean
no no no. can i hear your stuff somewhere?



Here you go Ronnie. See what you think. smile

https://www.reverbnation.com/skunkofhoustontexas?profile_view_source=header_icon_nav

#1137571 - 02/21/18 07:56 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Well Martin, talent is not one size fits all. And you'd probably write a lot better, if you had a reason to. Imagine you had a huge audience, had an album out already. Chances are your going to write like your life depended on it.

Not to mention so many great people helping your cause with artistry, musicianship, engineering, producing.

Writing for yourself, which is what most of us do, will make you creativiely lazy, cause the dialogue In Your head says...does it really matter?

They say that greatness is what you do when no one is watching, but people with real music careers know damn well somebody is going to be watching/listening eventually

I know for my own self, i would make a few great albums, I absolutely know it, but at the moment there is no need to, and I think that handcuffs me

Not everybody in music has world class talent, some have very little talent

Take heart


Well, so be it. wink

#1137572 - 02/21/18 08:24 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by RonnieDean
no no no. can i hear your stuff somewhere?



Here you go Ronnie. See what you think. smile

https://www.reverbnation.com/skunkofhoustontexas?profile_view_source=header_icon_nav


That's exceptional!

Is that a band or do you play all those instruments so well yourself?
I wanna join up right now. There's not much room left for me sop maybe I could play tambourine or somthin'.

I have an older sister named Martha. I used to call her Marfa when I was a tiny brat. So I especially liked that song.

#1137575 - 02/21/18 08:49 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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I like your voice.

#1137593 - 02/21/18 12:05 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: RonnieDean]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Originally Posted by RonnieDean
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by RonnieDean
no no no. can i hear your stuff somewhere?



Here you go Ronnie. See what you think. smile

https://www.reverbnation.com/skunkofhoustontexas?profile_view_source=header_icon_nav


That's exceptional!

Is that a band or do you play all those instruments so well yourself?
I wanna join up right now. There's not much room left for me sop maybe I could play tambourine or somthin'.

I have an older sister named Martha. I used to call her Marfa when I was a tiny brat. So I especially liked that song.


Thanks Ronnie.

I appreciate the encouragement.

On Marfa, I was lead singer and lead and rhythm guitar. The rest were musicians that I know.
On One Night Stole Forever and others more recent, I was lead singer and some rhythm and solo lead guitar. The rest was Mike Z on guitar, backing vox and his use of BIAB.

Mike is a wonderful find. He is the best thing that ever happened to me on the internet, musically. Maybe at all.

Thanks again for your encouraging words. If I ever have the misfortune to encounter my ex-wife, I will tell her that you disagree.

smile smile

#1137594 - 02/21/18 12:07 PM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I like your voice.


Thanks. smile

I think you are talking to me?

Martin

#1137623 - 02/22/18 06:45 AM Re: How Important is Your Talent ? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Yes, you.


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