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#1136629 - 02/09/18 02:50 PM Opinions are like...  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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What was that analogy about everybody having one?

Apparently, the Beatles didn't have the respect of everybody...as I mentioned. A lot of it sounds like what is being said about Rap...

This article just came out today, and I did a bit more research on it.

https://www.thewrap.com/the-beatles-were-the-worst-musicians-in-the-world-quincy-jones-says/

The Beatles Were ‘the Worst Musicians in the World,’ Quincy Jones Says

“Paul was the worst bass player I ever heard,” Jones assessed. “And Ringo? Don’t even talk about it.”
Jones then shared an anecdote where he said that Starr, unable to nail down “a four-bar thing” during a studio session, was replaced on the track by another drummer as he took a break.

“I remember once we were in the studio with George Martin, and Ringo had taken three hours for a four-bar thing he was trying to fix on a song. He couldn’t get it,” Jones said.

“We said, ‘Mate, why don’t you get some lager and lime, some Shepherd’s pie, and take an hour-and-a-half and relax a little bit.’ So he did, and we called Ronnie Verrell, a jazz drummer. Ronnie came in for 15 minutes and tore it up,” the producer continued. “Ringo comes back and says, ‘George, can you play it back for me one more time?’ So George did, and Ringo says, ‘That didn’t sound so bad.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, motherf—er because it ain’t you.”
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.scaruffi.com/vol1/beatles.html
Contemporary musicians never spoke highly of the Beatles, and for good reason. They could never figure out why the Beatles' songs should be regarded more highly than their own. They knew that the Beatles were simply lucky to become a folk phenomenon (thanks to "Beatlemania", which had nothing to do with their musical merits).

That phenomenon kept alive interest in their (mediocre) musical endeavours to this day. Nothing else grants the Beatles more attention than, say, the Kinks or the Rolling Stones. There was nothing intrinsically better in the Beatles' music. Ray Davies of the Kinks was certainly a far better songwriter than Lennon & McCartney. The Stones were certainly much more skilled musicians than the 'Fab Four'. And Pete Townshend was a far more accomplished composer, capable of entire operas such as "Tommy" and "Quadrophenia"; not to mention the far greater British musicians who followed them in subsequent decades or the US musicians themselves who initially spearheaded what the Beatles merely later repackaged to the masses.

The Beatles sold a lot of records not because they were the greatest musicians but simply because their music was easy to sell to the masses: it had no difficult content, it had no technical innovations, it had no creative depth. They wrote a bunch of catchy 3-minute ditties and they were photogenic. If somebody had not invented "Beatlemania" in 1963, you would not have wasted five minutes of your time reading these pages about such a trivial band
__________________________________________________________________________

#1136638 - 02/09/18 04:54 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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Tomorrow Never Knows has no technical innovations??? Strawberry Fields Forever isn't innovative?? Those are ditties?

I love the Stones but they slavishly copied The Beatles' arrangements in the 60s, from the sitar to psychedelia to album covers. You can research for yourself how Hey Jude/Revolution upstaged Beggar's Banquet at the opening of the Vesuvio Club in 68. Speaking of 68, remember what The Who's big single was? The Bo Diddley rip off Magic Bus.

Brian Wilson was highly influenced by Lennon and McCartney as was anyone who released a concept album after Pepper. Jimi Hendrix played Pepper live the weekend it was released. John Mayal with Eric Clapton covered Day Tripper. Play me a Jay-Z song with a riff as good as Day Tripper's. Phil Spector loved them as did many others. Yesterday is one of the most recorded songs of all time. A classic composition. There is definitely some professional jealousy back and forth between those bands and they did and continue to snipe at one another but that doesn't lessen The Beatles' achievements, especially not in retrospect.

Except for Paul they weren't exceptional technical musicians but that's irrelevant because I made my comments in reference to songwriting. That said, as a unit they had incomparable chemistry. She Said, She Said blows away anything on Aftermath. And Happy Jack.

Sorry Quincy but The Beatles accomplished more in seven years than you have your entire life. From Love Me Do to A Day in the Life in four years. That's the standard in pop music and it probably won't be equaled. At least not while morons like Kendrick Lamar are running the show.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 02/09/18 04:56 PM.
#1136640 - 02/09/18 05:40 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Jody Whitesides Online content
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
The Beatles sold a lot of records not because they were the greatest musicians but simply because their music was easy to sell to the masses: it had no difficult content, it had no technical innovations, it had no creative depth. They wrote a bunch of catchy 3-minute ditties and they were photogenic. If somebody had not invented "Beatlemania" in 1963, you would not have wasted five minutes of your time reading these pages about such a trivial band

True that the music was easily accessible.

False that it didn't contain technical innovations or creative depth. I always find it humorous when people get into arguments/debates as to what technology the Beatles would have used from today if it had been available in their era; as if they were so pure. They pushed the envelope when it came to recording techniques, which in turn gave them incredible creative depth for the era.

Often they would slow the tape down in order to play something then speed it back up to the intended final tempo. They got creative with bouncing multitrack recordings. They did multiple takes of songs and spliced the best parts together. They spent enormous amounts of time in the studio, usually late thru the night when time was cheap, so they could experiment. They used every available tool they could to achieve their goals.

True that the marketing helped immensely.

Beyond the Beatles, I've been party to numerous stories of who really played on a recording - some would blow people's minds. As producer and a studio player, I've also done what Quincy has done with replacing parts the artist couldn't play with people that could. Its not uncommon, it happens every day.


Jody Whitesides
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#1136641 - 02/09/18 05:46 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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RonnieDean Online content
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Maybe there's something wrong with Mr. Jones.

I'm not a Beatles disciple, but you can't watch and hear the Beatles play live and say they weren't good at what they did.
That's just nuts,

#1136647 - 02/09/18 09:23 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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maccharles Online content
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Ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa ha ha he he ha haaa heh heh haaaaaa......and on.

#1136653 - 02/10/18 02:01 AM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Luv The Beatles; Luv The Kinks, Luv the Who.

I luv I wanna Hold Your Hand as much as I luv Eleanor Rigby

I dont particularly like when jazz musicans look down on rock and pop musicians, and they do it alot.

Quincy has had a pretty great career both as a jazz legend and a producer, and crossed over many different genres and eras. Not that his opinion is worth any more than anyone elses, but I think he earned a right to an opinion

Some people feel musicianship and writing/composing go hand and hand, like, if you only know 3 chords, you cant write anything more than a three chord song. The less you know or can play the less options you have

What seems so obvious to us may not be so obvious to others

Hey, Sir Paul McCartney thinks rap is ''urban poetry''
http://www.contactmusic.net/sir-paul-mccartney/news/sir-paul-mccartney-loves-rap_5749488
He told Rolling Stone magazine: ''It's a funny thing. A lot of people look at rap and think 'Ah yeah, well it's just a lot of swearing and cussing, and bravado'.
''But seeing the show, it's a lot of poetry. I was impressed. I think seeing a whole show, you get a better idea of what it is they're on about. So I enjoyed the show.
''It's urban poetry, you know? When you see the show, you get a little bit of time to sit back and look at the songs and what they're talking about and what they mean.
''Whereas the kids in the show, they all know already. They know exactly what's going down, all the words and the lyrics.
''But for me, it's good to get clued in and think that rap is more than just what some people say it is. It's an education - I like it.''

#1136658 - 02/10/18 03:14 AM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Jazz musicians often have excellent playing chops but like the best classical players rarely can they compose at all... riffing on a jazz groove isn't interesting unless you simply likriffing e that exact musical masturbation... no different than virtuoso electric guitar which is far more boring than great short rock riff you can't wait for in a song. Much of Quincy's career retrospective once you get past the highly commercial pop stuff (which is certainly no better than the Beatles pop stuff) is boring or unenjoyable to most listeners. It's why a top selling pop album would usually dwarf in a week the entire sales run of a top selling Jazz album with very few exceptions. I respect great jazz players even when I don't enjoy their work, if they demonstrate something I can connect with, even if it's just a bunch of impressive riffing. But it doesn't move many people. The Beatles moved most everyone, if not directly with their own versions, then by the zillions of covers, done in a wide range of genres and which has transcended over a half century of music lovers generationally. I am not even sure I have heard a hit Beatles song I didn't like and though not every song on every album was awesome, their ration of GREAT songs divided by ALL their songs has to be about the highest of any artist in history. No one has really compared before, during or since them. A band which has 3 of 4 members writing timeless classic songs? Find me another band with any 3 members who have written even one timeless song solo each? (Most of the Lennon/McCartney songs were solo efforts after the early stage of their career, or simply two songs spliced into one like Day In A Life.

I am not even a mega Beatle fan. I like Aerosmith and Zepplin and a bunch of artists who I can't really compare to them, better. But I would never suggest they lacked anything. And their 4 part vocals ON TOP make them stand alone as well. Who else has 3 world class songwriters and 4 world class harmonizers all of which had successful solo careers that ALSO dwarfed most of their competition? No one that I can think of... none.


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#1136706 - 02/10/18 01:17 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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In most ways, this has gotten sad. The magic "Q" is turning into an old crotchity fart. I have always respected him and his incredible career. But I have very little patience or respect for people that get to the end of their era and just talk down everyone else. Even if he is right on somethings like the decline of the music business, I still don't care for the entire "talking down an industry and doing the "In my day" thing. Hey, Q, get on your back porch and rock in your chair.

The entire rap on the Beatles is utter nonsense. The Beatles had a profound effect on the OVERALL CULTURE. They had five songs in the top five at one time. Then, every time people got used to what they did and expected what came next, they CHANGED and led everyone. When the rest of the groups of their time, the Stones, Dave Clark Five, Herman's Hermits, were just getting into the "Hand Holding" they switch to Rubber Soul and Revolver. When everyone else is following that, they switch to Sgt. Pepper and Magical Mystery Tour. the White Album. Even their fights and break ups are trend setting. They come out with LET IT BE as their last released album but then do ABBY ROAD.

They never left the top of the Charts, they were never out of the popular eye, and even when they QUIT TOURING, the life blood of any band, they INCREASED in popularity and the effect that had on overall society.

You don't DO that by being weak. Complete silliness.

I think the "Q" man needs to fade on into the background. Very sad, but we all have our time. His is over.

MAB

#1136708 - 02/10/18 01:30 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Yeah well Keith Richards has been doing the same thing.

He has blasted Jon Bonham, Sgt. Peppers, Jerry Garcia, The Boss,

Everybody has one.....

http://www.oregonlive.com/music/index.ssf/2015/05/beatlemania_is_overrated_new_s.html

#1136716 - 02/10/18 02:22 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Jody Whitesides Online content
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
In most ways, this has gotten sad. The magic "Q" is turning into an old crotchity fart. I have always respected him and his incredible career. But I have very little patience or respect for people that get to the end of their era and just talk down everyone else. Even if he is right on somethings like the decline of the music business, I still don't care for the entire "talking down an industry and doing the "In my day" thing. Hey, Q, get on your back porch and rock in your chair.

Maybe its a matter of perspective...

Right now, I'm seeing it happen here on JPF's boards. Specifically as it relates to say streaming services, or in the case of several vocal members being right stroppy cows about rap & hip hop. There's more than a few "old crotchety farts" opining in the same manner.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1136736 - 02/10/18 06:07 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Well if I am crotchety about royalty rates being criminal and forced statutory rates on people's work when we don't do that to anyone else in the USA and streaming services doing insider deals to screw creators while secretly enriching their overlords with stock which is artificially propped up via the insider selling out of creators, then I suggest your offense at crotchetiness is self destructive, short sighted and dangerous to other creators. It's a false economy taking unfair advantage of labor by the benefactors of that labor. All rates for all music should be individually set artist/writer by artist/writer. No assumptions should be made on behalf of these artists who don't begin to understand they should not be expected to heel under the leash of corporate, political winds and government enforcement back by the force of a gun and imprisonment in the end as ALL laws are. Each creator should have to give individual affirmation for any "rate" to be assigned for their work and the work of their peers. It is unfair for the artificial power of the collective to artificially set rates low forcing everyone else to take the crappy rates or be left out of the artificial market.


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#1136744 - 02/10/18 07:47 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Jody Whitesides Online content
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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Each creator should have to give individual affirmation for any "rate" to be assigned for their work and the work of their peers. It is unfair for the artificial power of the collective to artificially set rates low forcing everyone else to take the crappy rates or be left out of the artificial market.

This is highly unrealistic for streaming services with the sheer number of artists & songs involved in the world. In reality, any artist can set their own rate for their work. They don't have to participate in streaming services - and I'm failing to understand how streaming is artificial. They can continue to sell plastic at whatever price they deem their work is worth.

I will fall back on my previous post (here on JPF) about how the mathematical percentage of streaming does beat any record deal one could hope to get. What is hard to deal with is how much anyone actually listens to an artist's music. It can be a real ego blow to know your music isn't being heard and not being shared to be listened to.

To that end, should an unknown/unheard artist demand to get paid more per stream? Or should a megastar be allowed to charge more per stream when their music is getting way more listens?

Exactly how would one "fix" the streaming payouts to allow for individual artists to charge what they feel they're worth?

Also, I never wrote I was offended by anyone's viewpoint about streaming services. I was posing that calling Quincy old and should go away for his view about certain parts of the industry is no different than how some people here do the exact same thing without the same storied career.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1136771 - 02/11/18 07:02 AM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Colin Ward Offline
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The difference between a rock guitar player and a jazz guitar player.....the rock guitar player plays three chords for a thousand people while the jazz guitar player plays a thousand chords for three people.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1136773 - 02/11/18 07:34 AM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Each creator should have to give individual affirmation for any "rate" to be assigned for their work and the work of their peers. It is unfair for the artificial power of the collective to artificially set rates low forcing everyone else to take the crappy rates or be left out of the artificial market.

This is highly unrealistic for streaming services with the sheer number of artists & songs involved in the world.


Since when is relevant whether someone's business model can deal with reality or not? There should not be a statutory rate EVER. Why must people take below potential market value for their work just because that arrangement makes it easier for a private profit making company to operate. If it doesn't fit the business model, the business model must accommodate the reality of freedom of control of the artist's creations. Musicians/Songwriters seem to be the only professions that are forced to accept a statutory rate set by the government. On radio they have no right to say NO to stations they dislike nor can they refuse to let radio use their work for some politically bribed rate favoring for profit companies. It's been going on since Radio was invented. Additionally the USA's criminal rip off of Performers getting nothing is an utter disgrace as well.

I admit I don't know all the realities of the statutory rates set for Internet Airplay, but if there is a rate in the first place, it means it's being used as a global pay min/max set by non creators. Do you actually think anyone should be forced to have the results of their labor sold at some rate set by dishonest politicians and the corporations who pay them off? Is it incumbent on creators to say NO to these online broadcasters or do they in fact have to negotiate with each creator before using their music?

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1136796 - 02/11/18 11:52 AM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 163
Fdemetrio Online content
Serious Contributor
Fdemetrio  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 163
@ Colin, pretty much sums it up, Jazz is mostly for other jazz musicians, laymen can not follow it or even understand it

The jazz artists that are able to reach a general audience are the ones who compose their own stuff and try to make it accessible.

Pat Metheny, Branford Marsalis, Herbie Hancock, David Sanborn are pretty famous jazz artists who some people might actually have heard of

But I have played 3 chords before, but didn't have thousands listening....

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 02/11/18 11:53 AM.
#1136797 - 02/11/18 11:58 AM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,961
Jody Whitesides Online content
Jody Whitesides  Online Content

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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,961
Park City, UT, USA
Brian, I agree that one should be able to set their own price for their work. But its unrealistic on a national and global scale for distribution. By all means, start a movement with a business that shucks the system. My guess is, you will have to hire an army of lawyers and employees to deal with every single deal and rate that each artist wants to charge for streaming their music. Then you have to have a plethora of deals in place with ISPs and Phone Companies in order to be able to set the minimum data rate an artist wants their music to stream at - of course this would all be lined out in each individual deal with 100s of thousands of artists.

Once you get each deal set, then you have to make every single customer of your service aware that they will get charged a different rate for each song streamed. Thus based on each artist a customer wants to listen to, their bill could skyrocket. Oh, wait, I forgot about how each country treats each deal individually. How many countries require agreements again? Over 100? So now you're in possible need of doing each artist over 100 times due to every country they want to be heard in?

Every country has their own rate.

The US now has an additional PRO strictly for Performers, its call Sound Exchange. They cover pretty much everything but traditional broadcast, and they have been pushing to get that covered as well. Its a battle. One where the US is like what 1 of 4 countries in the world that doesn't pay it? So US artists miss out on probably a billion a year at this point due to reciprocal agreements not happening because we don't pay foreign performers the royalty they enjoy in their own country. Though this is slowly changing.

Mechanicals are finally getting a boost.

Two of the writing/publishing PROs are under consent decree - ASCAP & BMI. SESAC isn't under a consent decree. I've been penalized once or twice due to being a SESAC writer/publisher, where another library that wanted to have me do some music for them refused to take my music when they found out I was with SESAC. The reason I was told had to do with whomever they did business with didn't have a deal with SESAC. Rare but it can happen.

So you can try to do all sides of the business on the up and up, plus set each artist's individual rate and keep yourself in business and you'll have the hearts of probably every musician ever. In fact I already know of internet stations that try this already, well, they actually don't set rates and they ask artists to sign waivers to avoid paying any royalties at all, but they promise to get artists heard around the world.

The closest that I've heard to your utopia happening is the Global Music Rights - a new PRO. I have no inside information to know if they're successful with setting individual rates or getting higher than statutory rate. However, you do need to be a mega star with global hits to join.

The system isn't perfect.

p.s. - think about dealing with each artist individually for your awards, then think about doing it in a for money business. How well would that really work out? Don't forget you're responsible for getting all appropriate songwriter, publisher and performer information as well.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1136816 - 02/11/18 02:07 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,977
Barry David Butler Online content
Top 100 Poster
Barry David Butler  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,977
Sebring, Florida USA
If you want to make money become a Stockbroker or Doctor...of better yet a Hedge Fund Owner or stinking Drug Company CEO....Not a songwriter.

#1136867 - 02/12/18 02:31 AM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,407
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,407
Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Brian, I agree that one should be able to set their own price for their work. But its unrealistic on a national and global scale for distribution. By all means, start a movement with a business that shucks the system. My guess is, you will have to hire an army of lawyers and employees to deal with every single deal and rate that each artist wants to charge for streaming their music. Then you have to have a plethora of deals in place with ISPs and Phone Companies in order to be able to set the minimum data rate an artist wants their music to stream at - of course this would all be lined out in each individual deal with 100s of thousands of artists.

Once you get each deal set, then you have to make every single customer of your service aware that they will get charged a different rate for each song streamed. Thus based on each artist a customer wants to listen to, their bill could skyrocket. Oh, wait, I forgot about how each country treats each deal individually. How many countries require agreements again? Over 100? So now you're in possible need of doing each artist over 100 times due to every country they want to be heard in?

Every country has their own rate.

The US now has an additional PRO strictly for Performers, its call Sound Exchange. They cover pretty much everything but traditional broadcast, and they have been pushing to get that covered as well. Its a battle. One where the US is like what 1 of 4 countries in the world that doesn't pay it? So US artists miss out on probably a billion a year at this point due to reciprocal agreements not happening because we don't pay foreign performers the royalty they enjoy in their own country. Though this is slowly changing.

Mechanicals are finally getting a boost.

Two of the writing/publishing PROs are under consent decree - ASCAP & BMI. SESAC isn't under a consent decree. I've been penalized once or twice due to being a SESAC writer/publisher, where another library that wanted to have me do some music for them refused to take my music when they found out I was with SESAC. The reason I was told had to do with whomever they did business with didn't have a deal with SESAC. Rare but it can happen.

So you can try to do all sides of the business on the up and up, plus set each artist's individual rate and keep yourself in business and you'll have the hearts of probably every musician ever. In fact I already know of internet stations that try this already, well, they actually don't set rates and they ask artists to sign waivers to avoid paying any royalties at all, but they promise to get artists heard around the world.

The closest that I've heard to your utopia happening is the Global Music Rights - a new PRO. I have no inside information to know if they're successful with setting individual rates or getting higher than statutory rate. However, you do need to be a mega star with global hits to join.

The system isn't perfect.

p.s. - think about dealing with each artist individually for your awards, then think about doing it in a for money business. How well would that really work out? Don't forget you're responsible for getting all appropriate songwriter, publisher and performer information as well.


Think about all the products Amazon sells. Far more than the number of artists in history making commercial music for sale. CD Baby created the largest collection of current day musician with little resources or technology. So why is it a big deal for Spotify to do the same thing? Each product Amazon sells has it's own cost, it's own selling price based on that cost. They do not have to sell all CD's for the same price back in the day, but now all these companies lie to make people with short memories forget about when music was sold on Cassettes and CD's apparently. The truth is they have forced creators to sell based on their partnership with government the rates they get paid for their music. You can buy a thousand different hammers with different cost ratios from different product creators not to mention the millions and millions of other products they individually negotiate pricing and cost structures for. It's a lie to suggest it would be too hard to do the same with music and I am disappointed you'd buy into that lie and push it to your peers. It is just cheaper and more profitable to force everyone into the same structure even though not all music is created equal (or with equal cost of production or value in the free market) so it is criminal that it should be "sold" (and streaming is a form of a sale, or perhaps rental is a better way to look at it) as if it is all equal.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1136954 - 02/12/18 01:47 PM Re: Opinions are like... [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,961
Jody Whitesides Online content
Jody Whitesides  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,961
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Think about all the products Amazon sells. Far more than the number of artists in history making commercial music for sale. CD Baby created the largest collection of current day musician with little resources or technology. So why is it a big deal for Spotify to do the same thing? Each product Amazon sells has it's own cost, it's own selling price based on that cost. They do not have to sell all CD's for the same price back in the day, but now all these companies lie to make people with short memories forget about when music was sold on Cassettes and CD's apparently. The truth is they have forced creators to sell based on their partnership with government the rates they get paid for their music. You can buy a thousand different hammers with different cost ratios from different product creators not to mention the millions and millions of other products they individually negotiate pricing and cost structures for. It's a lie to suggest it would be too hard to do the same with music and I am disappointed you'd buy into that lie and push it to your peers. It is just cheaper and more profitable to force everyone into the same structure even though not all music is created equal (or with equal cost of production or value in the free market) so it is criminal that it should be "sold" (and streaming is a form of a sale, or perhaps rental is a better way to look at it) as if it is all equal.

WOW!! Just WOW.

I do agree that not all music is worth the same amount.

I'd like to say/write it again: Go start the utopian service yourself Brian. You obviously know better than the tech companies, the ISPs, the government, and "lie buying" artists such as myself. You've clearly thought out server storage costs, co-location costs, computer costs, router costs, data serving costs, licensing costs, mechanical cost increases, software development costs, employee costs, lawyer costs, advertising costs, real estate costs, hardware costs, payment system costs, power costs, and any other costs I'm not aware of. Go build the system!

When you build that set-your-own-rate system I'll be artist #1 to sign up (like I was for CD Baby's digital service)! Hell, I'd love to set a streaming price of say $0.10 a stream. Or even $0.25 a stream for my biggest song. Cause hey, who wouldn't pay $100 a month for streaming about 400 songs a month. Especially when the average hardcopy consumer currently spends roughly $15 a year on recorded music and the average streaming customer spends $119.88 a year on their subscription of recorded music.

Again, I agree with you that all music isn't worth the same amount. That being said, the current streaming system rewards music that gets heard and leaves unheard music in the system, incurring costs but only paying when it gets heard. Meaning they're storing millions of songs that are getting covered by the costs built into the system. Oddly enough, its the same way that labels work by signing a plethora of artists and seeing who breaks out and the break out artists cover the costs of all the others that didn't pan out.

Think about this Brian & everyone else who thinks streaming killed the industry: Tossing out all the licensing, payment system, lawyer, employee, software development, and other costs, what would you do for artists whose music is on your service and costing you money to store, and serve on the rare occasion it gets streamed, but the artist priced it too low to cover the cost of the storage and service?
• Do you then build a reoccurring payment into the system that the artist has to cover if they're not meeting quota costs?
• Do you automatically increase the cost of that stream to cover costs, against the will of the artist?
• Do you advertise the cost of each stream to the consumer?
• Do you do it with an automated voice prior to the start of the song?
• Do you do a partial payment of a song if the consumer only listens to a portion of the song?
• How do you break that partial listen down? Percentage of song? Hard time used?
• Do you post the number of streams each song gets like Spotify does?
• How do you deal with paranoid artists claiming they're not supposed to be on your service?
• Do we go back to a tighter controlled distribution system that is curated?
• Do you let artists price out each song or do you force albums to accept a single price for all songs contained?

How many more questions should I pose?

Don't listen to me - I've bought the lie and I'm spreading mis-information. Forget the fact I'm also a grassroots lobbyist who meets with local members of the HoR trying to get better rates of payout for everyone.

p.s. - I had originally written a much longer breakdown using information about Amazon and the distribution system they've built and CD Baby. If Brian or anyone else really wants me to post it, I will.

p.p.s. - I view streaming as a usage or access, not as rental, not as a purchase.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com

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