JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum Okay, so how do I make money at this?

Hey Kathy,

Have I been Summoned? Hello Cindy. I'm Marc-Alan Barnette or MAB, I teach songwriting and the practical application of the music business based in Nashville Tn. I have been in this business for about 36 years and work every day at teaching writers and artists in the craft of the music industry.

Imagine if you will the National football league. You are in Missouri so I will just take the Kansas City Chiefs for an example. Think about how many kids play sandlot football. Then how many actually play some kind of junior league or pee wee football. Then some play for their elementary school, then go on through Junior High and then High School. By the time they get to Senior year, they have spent about 8 years of constant practice, giving up vacations to play summer practices, constantly in the weight room, totally consumed.

But even that does not guarantee they are going to get to colledge and even that does not guarantee that they are going to play professionally. SO that starts out with millions, files down to thousands, hundreds, and then less than dozens that actually end up going anywhere, ever.

Songwriting is very similar. There are millions that are trying to write some kind of songs. At the most recent count there were about 13 million bands, duos, solos, on You Tube alone. That is millions of people, even more millions of songs. We are at the convergence of several things.

Karaoke which made everyone an amatuer singer.

Computer and the internet and home recording which put everyone into the game.

And it removed a majority of the money made in the music industry.

So basically it is enormous supply and very finite demand. And the people who do this professionally have done this for dozens of years, an average of twenty, doing it almost every day. That is your competition.

You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to get a successful artist to cut your song.

You are more likely to be struck by lightning in a submarine underwater than to have any significant success.

The answer? You totally remove any thoughts of making money and do it as a hobby. If you are very driven you do it as a second job. And you put as much time, effort and money into it as your first job. Because if you don't, your competition does.

The point is that we are all doing it as hobbies. Even those who actually get paid to do it. All of us have multiple businesses in addition to our music endevors. I am fortunate that I am paid for music only. But that goes in numerous directions. Teaching, seminars, workshops, live performances, producing and performing on demo recordings, etc.

I am typing this to you at nearly midnight on Tuesday. I have done a recording session, done multiple threads on these type forums all day long, done multiple song critiques, wrote on two songs, booked five of my songwriter tours for the next two months, made organizational plans in Atlanta for the next three days, and a live songwriter's show. My day starts at 7:00 in the morning. That is a normal day.

So that is what it is really about. Hours and hours of continuous work that has nothing to do with writing music, and dozens of things that make the writing possible. That is what making a living in music is about now.

A primary reason for that is that people rarely pay for music anymore. The industry has lost around 6 billion dollars in the past 7 years. So that is why if you want to do this, you will have to look much deeper into the reality than you are thinking.

Before anyone gets a royalty check, they have to get a reality check.

My advice would be:

#1 Get outside yourself.
Get around other writers.
Attend workshops, seminars,
make a trip to a music center.

#2 Write MANY songs.
An average writer will write 125 songs with 65 people a year.

#3 Do as much as you can do locally before even considering expanding. Learn your craft first.

#4. Be happy in whatever comes your way and never expect anything. That way you will always be pleastantly surprised.

There are many great things about it. You meet wonderful people on sites like these. They are of varying degrees of success and various levels of talent. Listen to them. Learn your craft.

Be happy with yourself and what you achieve. Work hard. Write often. And most of all, touch lives.

At the end of the day, that is what is important.

MAB

I have had spurts where I get all excited and think- I really would love to have just one song go somewhere. And, then, reality hits and I realize- Yeah, that could happen. But, these days, I have resigned myself to the fact that I am writing for God, for myself, and for other people. I am, most likely, at the most, going to be able to share some of my songs with other people and touch them in a positive way. And, really that is the most important thing. I am not going to stop knocking on doors to see what could be possible. But, I am not going to give up or get let down if my big break never comes.

I remember back the end of 2006, I read about a woman and some things she went through in her life. And, her story prompted me to write what I believe to be the best Christian song I have ever written. When I was done writing and recording it using a keyboard and my in-home digital recording studio, I sent the song to her. She said it made her cry and I knew that it touched her life. I now give that song away to as many people who want it as a free digital download.

I have paid the $9.95 a month at Reverbnation and I take advantage of the opportunities on that site. I have a "buy now" link on a few of my songs on a website or two where I have my songs. I also look for any opportunities on this website.

After writing for close to 30 years, and after giving away my keyboard and digital recorder, I am ok with moving onto other things. I am not writing any new music. But, the ones that have survived. The few songs out of the hundreds I have written that I believe have a shot, the ones other people have also agreed are my strongest, those I am going to just see for fun if they will ever go anywhere. So, yes, for fun and for other people- to touch their lives, that is what I am seeking and focusing on. Anything more- Well it will be a miracle!

Granted, I'm fairly new at this whole thing, but I do think I have talent for lyric writing and have worked some with a couple of guys but it really went no where as far as hearing my music or making money.
I'm enjoying this anyway-a lot!-but I would like to see some rewards eventually. Advice?
Thanks,
Cindy Prince

"Music has so many dimensions to it. But I doubt anybody would have the gumption to say somebody like Stevie wonder is not more talented than Taylor swift, but Taylor swift has outsold him in every way."

This is a weird statement - minus the talent part. One, the population of people at the time Stevie was at the height of his career was literally about half of what it was when Taylor was at the height of hers. Two, the means of distribution changed dramatically between his career and hers. It was harder to reach more people during his heyday, it was substantially easier to reach more during her heyday. So yeah, she could easily outsell him from sheer numbers.

"Music has so many dimensions to it. But I doubt anybody would have the gumption to say somebody like Stevie wonder is not more talented than Taylor swift, but Taylor swift has outsold him in every way."

This is a weird statement - minus the talent part. One, the population of people at the time Stevie was at the height of his career was literally about half of what it was when Taylor was at the height of hers. Two, the means of distribution changed dramatically between his career and hers. It was harder to reach more people during his heyday, it was substantially easier to reach more during her heyday. So yeah, she could easily outsell him from sheer numbers.

Is there any calculations that would determine what Stevie Wonder's sales would be in 2018? Kind of like a $10,000 annual salary in 1970 would be $64,390 in 2018. Same with distribution per capita or something like that?

His sales would be considerably less today because people don't buy music.

Jodys point about population makes little sense because the biggest selling albums of all time are all old school. Top 8 of all time right here.

The only reason Stevie Wonder was used is because his net worth is a Qtr
Of say Taylor Swift, who I do like, but you could easily plug in any current underground singer songwriter who blows Taylor away if u wanted to.

It's whatever the media deems the best that becomes the best, watch the Grammies, that tells the whole story of how most music is left out of the picture

Stevie has actually sold more albums than Taylor, which is understandable because he has been around alot longer and also, people dont buy albums any more. But she has outsold him in terms of making money as an artist, and is more famous than he was.

The media controls who gets heard. The Grammys is just a reflection of how the music business is run. Only a limited number of people get in the door.

And then the Grammy's is supposed to represent the best of the best? No, the Grammys represent, maybe, the best of tthe most widely publicized artists...that year.

The technology changed, not how many people are around on planet earth. Are you defining population in an unusual way?