JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Are You You're Biggest Fan.....I am...lol

I feel that if WE are not our own greatest Fan we ought to quit....

Uh, Well,
Several years ago a guy on here went to the Web Site and gave me a thumbs up on all of my songs, so I'm not sure. I have also had requests for more songs on some of my submissions but not lately. So who knows.

Gotta love Ray's responses.

I agree Barry but I think that's automatic. I haven't met anyone who wrote something who didn't think it was good, but then that can impede you too. If your great by default, why bother trying to get better.?

I think you do have to be your own advocate, your own agent, your own salesman, your own best friend, but music....it's really up to other people whether your music is appreciated or not. But it is up to you whether your music makes you happy or not.

Hey I got good songs....naw chit?...

Oh you have to be.

It'll show otherwise. And if it shows, you're done.
And we can't have that. :-)

I don't mean a cheerleader to me but I am a Barry Butler Fan and always have been. I listen to my over 400 songs from time to time and I'm amazed at how fresh and great that sound..lol I am bewildered why more don't feel the I do...lol

The greatest cure for thinking too highly of your own songs is to get a chance to sit in a room with a number of people (more than 5) with no connection to you of any kind and watch their faces and reactions to your song(s) as they play. Even tougher is to have it done in a room of 800 or more who are then going to vote on your song publicly raising their hands on the score/value of your song en masse when they have heard enough and after if it is good enough. When that happens, you will hear every flaw in your own work you had ever failed to hear (and possibly invent some that aren't there) in excruciating slow motion.... it isn't pretty but it sure is a wake up call.

I've seen this repeated many times. In addition, I have submitted songs (not of my own creation in this case, but songs which I had personally championed) and I heard brand new weaknesses that glared at me from the first moment in depressing detail. It happens pretty much to everyone with only a few exceptions. It's a brutal lesson.

Nobody seems to be answering my question of understanding it.....I'm not talking about if anybody likes our songs. But are you still a fan of you after many years. If I didn't like my songs or me singing them I couldn't do this....so of course everybody has a different opinion but has your opinion of YOU changed or are you still a fan of what you are doing?

I am happy that I seemingly improved in every aspect of what I do. I am NOT happy with the seemingly bad business decisions, or miscalculating, or assuming this or that.

I have gotten to know myself fully, which I would say I am not a big fan of how I mainly focused on being creative and clever, rather than also being business savvy and smart. about WHAT to write, and as to WHY. (The business of it ALL).

But, I am still a fan of how I can create and play many instruments, (sounds on keys, playing guitar/bass, and playing real drums). Mainly because doing all of that is FUN! I have always been the biggest fan of having FUN! Is mostly why I never sweated the business end of things.

My biggest fan however is not me, it is my family, especially Tracy, Jeremy, (my OLDER kids), my wife, Cindy, my sister, Joan, and sometimes, my grandkids, (when they get off their phones and Xboxes!

They think I should have been on the Wheaties Box for music!

Absolutely!...and some days I think I'm my ONLY fan!

My wife doesn't even know my songs exist. She sort of just dismisses me and is busy doing her own stuff. I think I may have 3 Fans on facebook that likes my songs and me but that's about it. Oh Yeah ME makes four....lol

Hey Barry:

Three fans are better than a big fat zero! To be mortifyingly truthful... yes, I suppose each of us tend to be our own number one fans. But I do my best to be humble and polite. I know Ricki's wrong, though. She has several fans including me... and Johnny D. really is beginning to make that climb. Interesting topic, my friend. ----Dave

LOL

NO way, Ricki! I and many others of course admire your writing. I know I was so inspired hearing your demos for Sub and me to put our take on it. Thanks again for those opportunities to work on your songs.

I am a BIG fan,

John

I'm my own worst critic. I wrote for years and would not perform them any where. I don't like my singing voice and I am a poor guitar player compared to some. I believe I am a decent wordsmith but that was that, and I managed to come up with tunes to what I wrote. But others could take what I wrote and make them come alive, so I guess I'd never make it as a singer songwriter, but that's ok because I'm a bit shy of performing in public anyway. I manage to sing in church once in a while but am not comfortable doing so. Even though I've been told that they like my voice, I feel they are just being polite. I hear good singers sing and wish I could sing like them, but that is not my gift. Of course I've heard others sing and wonder why they do, but some of them actually get a following and make a career out of it.

Not being a singer certainly handicaps me as a writer, I depend on others to showcase my songs and I have to pay for demos to pitch them. There are a few people that are good at singing, writing and playing an instrument, they are triply blest.

Absolutely not, I tend to tear my work to shreds everytime when close to it. After a bit of time and distance, I see/hear it more clearly.....and usually it comes across as mediocre to me....and I'm always comparing what I do to my heroes, making me work harder and always falling short somehow.

Yeah I'm with Mac. I think if you get to a point where you can actually tell if your own stuff is not very good, that's the point where you become a good songwriter...guess it applies to muscianship too. That word ME, is very powerful, lol

i have shoeboxes full of cassette tapes with snippets of stuff I began writing, and didn't want to lose. Thought they were great at the time, and it only takes a day or two before I realized, oh well, on to the next song.

Musicians can drive themselves crazy striving for perfection too, it may not be attainable.

Thanks guys, that's sweet of you to say. I didn't take Barry's question to mean did we think we were the greatest thing since sliced bread. I took it as whether we believed in ourselves and thought we were striving to be the best songwriter we could be. Obviously, it's unlikely any of us are actually THE best, but we do the best we can. We can't ever stop trying to outwrite ourselves with every new song but that shouldn't stop us from showing ourselves a little love and compassion. It's a lonely undertaking, this writing thing. And if we don't pamper ourselves and bolster our fragile egos now and then, who will?

Yes! I am my biggest fan. If you don’t believe in yourself, then who will? I am passionate about every song I write and think my songs are pretty good. (How’s that for confidence?) Listening to my early songs, my only nit has been production and playing. Over the years you can hear the improvements as I learned the craft.

I missed the music success boat only because I lacked the courage to pursue music 100% of the time. Family, business, and life in general always jumped in front of music. Ironically the family, business and life was what was influencing and shaping my music. I wrote some of my “best stuff” when faced with life’s challenges.

So it is what it is and was what it was. I’m happy. Life has been good.

Well, I guess it comes down to what your goals are. If your trying for commercial success, then the , I'm just happy being me, thing doesn't work.

If you write songs, because you don't like gardening, then it makes no difference at all if your stuff is good or not, it's what you do.

I suppose it's a bit of safe haven, not trying for success, that way rejection never enters the picture, and you can write 9 verses and no chorus if you want. Nobody can say you stink if you aren't asking anybody to listen...err or charging.

It's kind of like meeting your favorite musical or sports hero, or whatever, I always feel like I wouldn't want to, because what if that person treated you like garbage, you would hate them, and your whole reason for picking up a guitar in the first place was because of them, now what?

I read in Phil Collins book that he met Paul Macca, and Paul belittled him for telling him how much he was a fan. He said he will never mention Paul's name ever again, and it really hurt him.

Sometimes it better to leave your songs in soundclick, they do no harm that way!

I don't know how I missed Mac's response to this thread.

If anyone here should be his own best fan... he's it! From his post, it is obvious that he is passionate about his music but when all is said and done... the "product"... in this case Music... is always first class on just about everything he does. (At least those I've heard.)

I spend hours listening to my own songs as a way of being my own best/worst critic. So far, I've not achieved a perfect song and probably never will... but I'll keep trying. I think I've probably been "an audience of one" for most of my time dabbling in trying to write songs. Mac does not suffer from this problem and eventually, he will escape JPF and "hit the big time!"

Almost all of us will be so proud for him when that happens. ----Dave

Hey Mac I'm just the opposite. The words and music all come to me in a day or two and then I sing it and that's it......I don't like perfection and for me chasing it is a fools errand...lol I never look back or change anything.

I use do compare myself with my favorites but eventually somehow found me and I just stayed there. I didn't want to another this or that I wanted to just be me. I get a lot of comments that say they new my voice immediately new it was a Barry Butler Song.....That is what I strive to. I can never be anything like all those amazing singer songwriters so I just try to be me....Most of them are a one of a kind and sound and write like no other.

I don't believe there are any best. Everybody is like a snowflake. I hate singing and award shows because art is subjective and they are all unique...They are just popularity shows....Ever artist is unique and should be treated like they are. My wife likes a song and I hate it...lol

I don't get a lot of negative comments but if I do and go to my youtube page and play that song and always sounds great to me. I never get tired of listening to me sing my songs and for the life of me I don't know what others don't...But what the hell I'm My Biggest Fan....lol

I listen to my songs for enjoyment and always with the ear phones....I never even think of how I could tweak this or that....

I feel the same way! +3

I remember fans from the olden days; these days I just do the songs for their own sake - I don't care about fans, fame, money, any of that.

But to answer your question, I suppose I am a fan most days. Other days, I am my biggest critic.

--TC

I stay nice to me...Plenty of other life things beat me up...

Holy cow Dave, where did all that come from?..ha haa! High praise indeed, jeez...thank you.

I've always admired your grasp of the retro as it has always been where I operate most days.

Barry, I don't mean I try to BE my heroes, I know I'm me and no matter what I do, it'll always sound like me, but I try to elevate what I write to that level by osmosis somehow, to study the craft and most times the results let me down.

Most of what I do that I actually like I attribute to happy accidents, the rest of it makes me cringe....it's only when others say good things about the work that I can try to hear it through their ears, shrug and accept that it must be okay and move on.

The good thing about that is I have come to understand my weaknesses and strengths, trying to chase the strengths and hopefully get a little better each time.

Hi Mac:

Not trying to "blow smoke" in your direction. In all seriousness... you earned what little praise I sent you. I also think JPF has a "resident composer" who always migrates to the "shout box" and he really does not need us here at this website. I suspect he lives in a remote place and enjoys "talking" to other humans... much like I do. Schick is probably making a living from his obvious talent and I certainly envy that aspect of his musical career. Not for myself... I'm wishing I could drag in royalties, etc. from "covers" of my work by real artists for the benefit of the widow and orphans. I don't have the "right stuff" to ever make it as an entertainer/artist... being a songwriter has always been my objective.

You, on the other hand, possess that talent and stage presence. It can take you as far as you care to go. There is an awful price to be paid if you go there, though. Night after night... either "on stage" or on the tour-bus... or in the studio. No privacy... especially as you climb the ladder. The worst part... learning exactly who you can trust to handle your business and put something away for your future and eventual retirement. Thankfully, song-writing only requires having the right contacts... and some talent.

Never doubt that I wish you all the best. ----Dave

Your stuff is sometimes brilliant and nearly always commercially viable and widely likable. Overall I think your stuff as a whole rates am 8 out of 10 and some songs a 9+ out of 10. Lighten up on your work!

See, Mac:

Even "The Boss" agrees! Any day now... "Contractsville!" I agree with his rating of your work... but don't ever forget where you began your career. We don't need any "uppity" JPF escapees! LOL! ----Dave

Barry. You are right.
If you aren't a fan of yourself you wouldn't produce anything at all.

The old sayings go, "Never do a job you don't enjoy doing", and "always do what you think is right".
You may never be famous but you'll be a darn sight happier.

Vic

Doing the right think is always a good idea. It can be subjected but I follow how Jesus was and is. Love, Charity, Kindness, Mercy, Hopefulness, Give the Benefit of the doubt and so many others. About ten years ago I changed the story lines to my melodies and started writing mostly my own words. I had a God Moment right here in this little room at 3 AM. It made me realize that I had the talent to up my game and write about all those things and more above to Jesus and More. So mostly I gave up writing silly songs, funny songs, bar and girl songs, romantic songs and more to try and make a difference in people's lives. I still haven't been successful money wise but I have made a difference in people's lives. I post a lot of my songs on my facebook page and others. I sent a song about being different is beautiful and a video and I got some tear jerker comments. I wrote a song about kindness and about soldiers suicide and the like and Jesus songs and hopeful and healing songs and on and on. Some of the comments made me cry. Recently I have received amazing comments on a song about a guy went to a run down motel to kill himself and was saved because he found The King James Bible on the table next to his bed and went home to his kids and wife. Some unknown woman/girl wrote me an e mail that she listens to my song every morning because her Dad did kill himself. What I guess I'm trying to say as we all have our calling and have many different talents and most people don't use them. I'm so glad God spoke to me that night as it made my songs come alive to others and it makes it all worthwhile...Sorry for the speech...lol

I make music because Ive been doing it so long, it be like a messy divorce, with dozens of kids involved!

I think im good, I dont think im great. I think I could get lucky and capture something great if I persist, may have a few times

Im able to know if one of my songs suck before i let anyone hear it. I think thats important

Subjectvity is a powerful thing too though. Millions of people enjoy Mambo #5 and Gangum style