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Happy Weekend JPFers all over the place. I mainly want to share this one with you all. I posted this tune several years ago as a g/v. Now it's all grown up...like an ugly duckling into a beautiful swan!

A great big thanks to Mike Zaneski for his understated yet very effective production. He really gets me!


https://soundcloud.com/rickib/thinking-about-you


THINKING ABOUT YOU

When you’re not around and I’m all alone
Rattling around this empty home
I can’t erase this smile from my face
Thinking about you
Thinking about you

Then I go to work, it’s a busy day
Trying real hard to earn my take home pay
Nothing gets done once I’ve begun
Thinking about you
Thinking about you

Left over taste of love still sweet on my lips
I can trace the path of your hands down my hips

I’m a little lost in love, it’s nearly two
You’re lying sound asleep in the next room
I’ll join you soon in dreams of stars and the moon
Thinking about you
Thinking about you

© Ricki E. Bellos (BMI)

Hi Ricki:

If this one fails to get "picked up and recorded" by someone like maybe... Adele... there is no justice left in the world of jazzy blues. Don't mistake my reaction for not absolutely loving your rendition of your own song... 'cause it is remarkable, sultry and downright delicious. Those blues licks and pregnant pauses combine to maximize the lingering effect of the song. In this case, I'm still debating myself about whether I enjoyed the lyric most... or the melody as backed by our ever impressive Michael Zaneski. Kudos and curtain calls, my friend(s). ----Dave

Ricki (and Mike),

This is masterfully done. Really, really, like the vocal on this; and the arrangement behind it. From first to last, just terrific work by both of you.

Best regards,

Deej

Sultry and delicious...Thanks Dave! Not sure about Adele but I wouldn't refuse her call...

Ricki

Thanks for listening, Deej. Glad you like it.

Ricki

Ricki,

I found my self lighting up a cigarette........and I don't even smoke! Great job by all, very enjoyable--great sound!

steady-eddie

Eddie, when I posted the g/v of this song years ago it was blamed for melting someone's computer. You got off easy! Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for listening.

Ricki

Now that's a love song, Ricki.
Your vocals and lyrics are as cool as the other side of the pillow.

A real fire cracker, Mike.
What's the deal with that guitar noodling through out? Is that you playing or is it B I A B?
Regardless, it sounds great through out but especially in and just after the bridge...... SMOKIN.

Your productions are always on point and I find your versatility utterly impressive.

Really cool! I love that kind of retro reverb on the voice. Fantastic arrangement. Great lyrics, smooth performance. Lovely!

Love the sound, here.......very bluesy......very sultry........sweet!!!
Good song writing........fine performances, too. The singer sounds a bit like Tams??? Nice!
Mike did a great job with this!
Kudos......
-Tom

Hi Ricki
Great song late night listening , reminds me a bit of Diana Krill.
Lovely smooth sultry voice
Thumbs up
Travis

Yep, just your normal, everyday love song! Glad you liked it. That Mike really knows how to get to the soul of a song. I'm delighted to be able to work with him. Thanks for stopping by, Nelson.

Ricki

Thanks for listening and glad you liked it, Gavin. I keep saying, Mike knows how to make me sound better than I'll ever be. No way I could ever do that live, even if I was so inclined.

Ricki

This is refreshingly different, Ricki.
The lyric is simple but because of the way it's done, it sounds complex.

Good one.

Vic

Dave, Deej, Eddie, Nelson, Travis (John), Gavin, Tom, and Vic:

Thanks, all.

I think sultry is Ricki's middle name

She knows it's musical language, for sure, and really luxuriates in a slow swing-time 3/4 ballad.

Nelson, that lead electric is BIAB. Specifically, the brilliant Nashville session musician (and Grammy winner) Brent Mason whose performances are one of the highlights of BIAB.

Thanks again..

Mike

Hi Ricki / Mike,



WoW - this has such a GREAT vibe.


Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

Bluesy, sultry and sweet...what's a poor girl to do? Thanks for listening Tom and glad you liked it.

A bit like Tams you say? I don't hear it, even on a good day, but it is something for me to aspire to.

Ricki

Thanks for the thumbs, Travis. I think you mean Diana Krall? A lot to live up to. Thanks!

Ricki

UH-OH...ya got me, Vic...my secret songwriting technique has been exposed! Thanks for checking it out.

Ricki

Pretty folks.

Knew it would be.

Martin

Thanks again, Mike, for your steady and always spot on touch.

Ricki

Thanks, Calvin. Glad you like the vibe.

Ricki

Thanks, Martin. Glad you weren't disappointed.

Ricki

Ricki!

Wow! That was a joy to listen to!!
Who is the singer? I didn't even know you sang.
If it is you, then I will be pressing you more to sing on the co-writes.... I had no idea. And yes it is sultry and sweet for sure. Btw, I too heard a few lines that had me wondering if it might be Tammy. Something in the timbre I think.
No criticism from me, just kudos.
Great job!!

Paul

good smokey jazz stuff here.Great job you two. Mike

Calvin, Martin, Paul, Michael..

Thanks, guys.

I love working with Ricki. It's fun and I'm always learning something new.

Thanks again.. (Ricki and all..)

Mike

how the hell did I miss this..some of my fav music jazz, blues, very good listen Ricki, I like the way this is put together. although its late" I made it here.. Mike you are such a talent... Lane

Thanks, Paul. Bringing joy is what it's all about. That's me singing...I keep telling people what a miracle working Mike is.

Ricki

Thanks for tuning in Mike L, glad you liked it.

Ricki

Backatcha Mike Z!

Ricki

Glad you found this one to listen to, Lane and that you weren't disappointed.

Ricki

The pauses are magic, everything is so effective to the emotion to this song. Really like the production, great vocal, it just takes you away or to a dance floor...LOVE the guitar in the break and those horns near the end....great stuff!

Tammy

Thanks Lane!

Thanks Tammy!

Mike

Gotta love this - excellent in every respect! - ....Pete

Glad you found this one to your liking, Tammy. Thanks for letting me know.

Ricki

Thanks, Pete, for taking time out to listen and comment.

Ricki

I love the concept of the song. The lyrics depict a very special and memorable time in a relationship in much more color than the average "newfound love" song. While at first the gap in the story confused me slightly, I now see it as quite clever, especially if there were an instrumental solo to provide some more time after the second verse.

My favorite part of the tune by far is the bridge ("Left over taste of love...). The 6/8 feel works great with the country-western feel of the masterful studio production. The two 4-bar phrases make for a nice bridge length and the fact that the chord structure is non-repetitive, beginning and ending on a 5 chord, really makes it go somewhere, leading you away and then back to the verse.

The verses seem to be in a slow 9/8 time signature, other than what seems to be a single 6/8 bar ("I can't erase this smile from my face"). You could also think of the verses as being in 9/4, or even in 3/4 using 3 bar phrases (which would be quite odd). I’ll refer to them as being in 9/8 since that makes the most sense to me, musically.

The slow 9/8 just doesn't work for me. Paired with the opening chords (Fm - Bb - Eb,C/E,Fm), I struggled to hear the key of the piece on my first listen. I kept hearing a ii-V-I in Eb. It wasn't until after the first fermata when I finally knew the song was in f minor. It wasn't until a bit after that point that I began to realize the song was in 9 and had my rhythmic bearings. After the first listen of course, I am able to anchor myself more easily. But, the first listen can be quite important.

No doubt there have been famous pieces with odd and alternating time signatures. For 9/8 pieces, Dave Brubeck's Blue Rondo a la Turk comes to mind for Jazz as well as Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring on the classical side. However, these and others generally have a faster tempo that helps the listener group the odd-numbered beat pairing more easily.

Additionally, the emphasis placed on the last 3 beats of each measure (or the last bar of each three bar phrase if you consider the song to be in 3/4) with the Eb,C/E,Fm chords at first made me think this was the start of a new measure (or phrase), rather than the end of a triple beat measure (or the end of a triple-bar phrase). In retrospect, it reminds me a little of the end of each 7/4 bar of Money by Pink Floyd. Again, the tempo of that song is much faster than this one (and the bar is shorter).

Even on subsequent listenings, the slow odd meter feels to be a very unnatural pairing with the lyrics and musical style of the piece. The song seems to want so badly to be fully in 6/8.

Thanks, Pete!

Maroon, thanks for listening and I'm glad you found my production good.

I have to disagree about Ricki's verses wanting to be in 6/8. 6/8 (as in chopping off 3/8 out every 9/8) would make the lines all run into one another creating enjambments up the yin yang and it would be hard for the singer to catch her breath. The verses would feel claustophobic, even if the tempo were to be slowed down even more than it is. 12/8 (adding another 3/8 to the 9/8) would mean holding a note near the end of each line (of lyric), and would work better than 6/8, feeling like a swing-time 4/4 then, but 9/8 works best and is the most organic choice, I believe. It allows for the right amount of breathing between lines/phrases, and the three accented notes 7, 8, and 9 are processed mentally by most listeners as pick-up notes since the rhythm section is supporting 9/8 feel and not fighting it. Plus, 9/8 takes into account the song's mood and meaning, I believe.

I don't think a first listening where one has to "get their bearings" is a bad thing. For example, there's plenty of 6/8 songs that start out accenting 1,3, and 5--and you think the song is in a (3=2) faster tempo..then the band comes in and 1 and 4 get emphasis..and you go "aaaaah!" ---cuz there's much pleasure to be had and found in this intentional deception on the composer's part by holding back part of a rhythm for a bigger payout later.

You are not an average listener, Maroon, and I think perhaps you are overthinking this. I think for most, ANY time signature and combination of time signatures (in a piece) can work if the choices follow the natural inclinations that a lyric will engender, taking into account the lengths of the lyrics' lines/phrases and allowing for breathing space (not too much, not too little) between those lines/phrases, and at a higher (meta) level, taking into account the songs meaning and mood.

These were concepts The Romantics (Wagner for instance..and moderns like Sondheim) latched onto in their choral, theatrical and operaric writing, veering away from cookie-cutter Mozartian 3/4 and 4/4. Instrumental music has other ways to make un-boxy phrases and odd time signatures feel "right" and often it's the same concept of letting the melody be the "hero" on the journey--like narrative story-telling. With pop music (and all its variants) it's certainly less common (than say, in theatre) but not at all a foreign concept.

Ironically, the more sophisticated the music writing, the more apt it is to let the lyric take it down some path less travelled. Folks like Bacharach made careers undermining expectation in their music. Imagine listening to "Anyone Who Had A Heart" for the first time. It needs a dozen listens before you realize how perfect the odd, unboxy phrases are. I know that you aren't disagreeing with any of that, but perhaps saying, more or less, that Ricki's composition doesn't feel like it "grew from her lyric" but that's where I differ with you, for reasons stated. 12/8 could work, but 9/8 gives the song a restless quality that matches the overall mood and feel of Ricki's lyric. She is thinking about him and it's making her get all 9/8, so to speak! Too antsy (from thinking about him) to wait another 3 eighth notes. 12/8 would have felt a little too pat and boxy, long and slow for what the lyric is doing, in my humble opinion.

Mike

Yeah...what Mike said! Thanks for weighing in, Maroon, glad you loved the concept.

Ricki

Thanks for that Mike, but my hair started to hurt and my eyes glazed over by your third line!

Ricki

Mike,

Very welcome, and I didn't just find your production good. It was superb. Even though as a trumpet player I always have a strong preference for live horns, I hear the track as release quality. It was almost as if some forgotten cousin of Patsy Cline walked into a modern-day Nashville studio.

And yes, you could definitely call it 12/8 instead of 6/8. The idea was moving from a triple meter to a duple meter. While you could lengthen the end of the phrase, my preference would be to lengthen both the end and the middle of the phrase like the melody currently hints at in lines like "Rattling around this empty home". I'm singing it to myself right now actually! I would attach a sound file but I'm trying not to be any weirder than I already am.

Maybe with less emphasis on beats 7,8, and 9 it would work better for me since those are the weak beats of a 9/8 bar. And while some playful misdirection can be a lot of fun, its not fun for me when I don't feel things make sense at over a minute into the song unless I'm intentionally listening to something postmodern or abstract.

I am sure it sounds like I am analyzing it to death, but it really just grew out of this feeling I had of "Man, it took me a while to get the feel of this song and now that I do, it still seems really off-kilter." However, your concept that thinking about him is "making her get all 9/8" is so hilariously and music-nerdily great that you have almost won me over. I have to work that into conversation with friends at some point in my life.

That's a neat Bacharach tune. He was kind of a master of putting added beats in a tune that could have mass appeal. Even with the 5-beat bars sprinkled in, though, the differences are that I understand his main groove pretty much off the bat, and I can connect with it throughout the song. In the context of more popular music I think it takes a lot of finesse to make that work well.

Anyway, thanks for the conversation and apologies if I have seemed argumentative or abrasive at any point. I can appreciate your sticking to your vision and it certainly seems that I am the odd man out - the track is resonating with a lot of listeners here in this thread! You certainly deserve the last word on it after all the work you put into it.

Cheers

Maroon,

My hardest job when making demos is making decisions in regards to some of my clients' intentions when it comes to meter and time signatures in particular. Sometimes it's easy cuz I can tell that an extra beat was accidentally added when probably looking at the lyric sheet or something. It's interesting that Randy Newman, in a great two hour conversation with Marc Maron said he has the same problem playing live with a band--he'll add in extra beats--and it's only cuz his band is so in sympathy that they rarely sound disjointed.

It's the sophisticated composers AND the primitive ones that actually seem to write close to the lyric--letting it lead the way and create the meter, and I've learned so much making demos for clients like Dave Rice, who just naturally lets the rhythm of his lines create a meter that can contain several time signatures changes, but all following the natural stress patterns in the lines. So to me, this is a kind of natural "genius" in that some clients are just naturally writing sophisticated music without a ton af theory behind what they are doing, and I feel that my job is to support that vision rather than try and "box it" into 4 and 8 bar patterns of 3/4 or 4/4.

Ricki is somewhat in the middle. She loves prog rock (and likes dabbling in odd meters now and then) and definitely knows what she is doing as a song-writer without having a lot of theory behind her. She works more intuitively, but my job is always to support her vision, unless I think there's something blatantly wrong going on musically. And by support it, I mean "make it work."

So if you aren't hearing those last three beats the way you should, I feel like that's on me, and makes me wonder if I had, say, more drum fills subdividing beats 7 through 9 that maybe you'd be hearing those pick-up notes as intended by Ricki. Those pickup notes were in her guitar part, in her original demo, btw, so it was definitely my job to use that idea but to make it work, and now I think maybe I didn't make it completely work. Live and learn.

I appreciate your in-depth look at this and know you are coming from a good place.

Mike

Ricki,

Sorry my talk with Maroon went over your head and made your hair hurt!

You are hearing 3/4 time, and that's fine. Then we could say that each line of your verses contain 3 bars of 3/4, right? That's where the 9/8 comes in. We are simply calling 3 bars of 3/4 by a different name (9/8, or 3/8 + 3/8 + 3/8)), and using your way of seeing it, Maroon thinks that there should be a fourth bar (of 3/4) in every line of the verses, lengthening each of those 4 lines by 3 beats.

Maroon is suggesting something like this:

When you’re not around and I’m all aLONE (1,2.3, 1,2,3, 1,2,3, 1,2,3) "LONE" gets half of the phrase length (1,2.3, 1,2,3, 1,2,3, 1,2,3)

Rattling around this empty HOME Same thing (1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3) "home" gets half the length of the phrase (1,2.3, 1,2,3, 1,2,3, 1,2,3)

I hope that helps. I'll be happy to send you audio examples if you like.

Mike

AARGGGHHHHHHH!!!! NO...please...no more... Seriously though, you two can hash it out till the cows some home. I really admire the knowledge you guys have between you. I was trying for something a little different and that's what I gave you. You went with that, waved your magic wand and gave me back more than I could have hoped for. I'm grateful you didn't try to box it into something more conventional. I love it the way it is. For me, ignorance is bliss. Carry on.

Ricki

Thanks for the neat perspective and the grace given!




There are fewer compliments higher than a satisfied customer/ collaborator!

Wow, okay......I love the way this settles in and then switches up musically to almost dizzying effect. Like kind of an odd Duke Levine number, laid back and tricky....well done!

Maroon and Mike, I'm delighted to be part of a forum like JPF where pros like you are able to share your vast knowledge and toss around various musical ideas. While my own limited input to the discusion may be frustrating to me, I hope it isn't misconstrued as frustration with either of you and my attempts at deflective humor will not be a deterent for future discussions. I do appreciate your input.

Ricki

Hey there Mac! Good to see you. Thanks for tuning in. Laid back and tricky...I love that!

Ricki

Very cool tune and production, Ricki! Me LOVE This Style a LOT!

Good job all around,

Merry Christmas!
Johnny D

Thanks for listening and letting us know what you think, Johnny D. Hope you had a Merry Christmas as well.

Ricki