http://www.classicfm.com/music-news/musicians-depression-study/

This study has been around for over a year and I am just now seeing it..

I'm not sure how I feel about it. It seems to be the only one aimed at musicians, so kudos to "Help Musicians UK" but because it's the only one, who knows how accurate it is for anyone beyond the school (University of Westminster) that was surveyed..maybe that school puts a lot of pressure on its students..that we don't know..

And it's a safe bet that the statistics vary widely from place to place and amongst the various types and social strata of musicians. I imagine that there's been a boon in the practice of psychiatry in Nashville in the past several years do to the changes there, but elsewhere?

Personally, I get depressed as much as the next guy, but I can't single out music as the source or cause. It's been the source of many a peak experience and just as many dark nights of the soul, but overall music is what I love and what drives my life, and I suppose I rewrite my narrative to romanticize the darker moments.

But clinical depression? When I think of clinical depression I think of William Styron's short memoir "Darkness Visible" --if you have clinical depression you are going to know it, and it is going to stop you DEAD in your tracks while you are in it..and I would hope anyone with serious depression is doing something about it, cuz there's lots of great help out there in the form of prescription drugs, reading materials, and talking cures..

It's an interesting study for sure..

Mike

Writing songs is one of the only thing that actually makes me feel good.

I'm too depressed to read it....

I always thought that anyone with an artistic mind was open to bouts of depression. I haven't cut off my ear yet though.
I'll have to thing of a part I don't use much for that.

Vic

This makes me sad... what a downer... sigh...

I am not sure this is true, it is just that writers are more likely comfortable owning up to it.

I can't blame creating songs for mood swings. Like Barry, song-writing is a real way to express myself and the end result can either make me "euphoric" or really disappointed at the result. (Usually a crappy vocal or some simple recording mistake.) Life deals us a different "hand" each day and sometimes the "overload" can really be depressing. I have so many good things going on in my life... it's hard to stay "down" for long.

Sleep deprivation is one of my more serious problems. When I wake up from an unrested night... I can really feel the lack of that "good feeling attitude" and it can take me several hours to feel better. ----Dave

Composing and writing songs gives me a purpose in life - and always makes me happy. I would think that people without a purpose would be the most depressed. Although, my composing may have given me an illusionary world of bliss. Which opens up the concept of reality.

John

Springsteen, Billy Joel, Eric Clapton, Bon Jovi, Ray Charles, Beyonce, Kurt Cobain, James Taylor, Elvis

Many many others. I dont know if its a cause and effect issue. I think alot of artists went through alot of grief at younger ages. And they tend to gravitate towards the arts as an outlet. The captain of the football team or the head cheerleader, or the best looking girl in school rarely have these issues. They are socially accepted right away and probably dont even have time or interest in learning an instrument.

If your gonna be a good writer or musician, you do have to spend an awful amount of time alone, and being alone can be depressing in itself

John Loudermilk (Tobacco Road) had a writers course years ago: "Songwriters don't need a shrink,, because they write the hurt out of their mind".

I've written many things out of my mind through the years--I think that his statement has a little truth behind it!

Musicians may have a little different situation to tackle: the degree of accomplishment to the goals they set for themselves--for me I would be somewhat depressed, if I couldn't get the inversion or riff to sound just right, but it would be short-lived and soon forgotten!

Mackie

Springsteen, Billy Joel, Eric Clapton, Bon Jovi, Ray Charles, Beyonce, Kurt Cobain, James Taylor, Elvis...the bigtimers were more effected by the Hollywood Effect than songwriting & creativity. Stars start believing they’re all powerful & indestructible – stardom diminishes - they turn to drugs to recapture the power – then become depressed when they realize they’re only mere mortals and/or can’t stay on top of the charts any longer. Some can’t handle the reality of life, i.e., we live, we die, we all eventually fail – the Hollywood Effect. Now I'm depressed...

John

Which is the cause and which is the effect? Maybe depressed people make the best musicians? Maybe being in an industry that is so over saturated with wannabe musicians is depressing? Dunno....but it seems like the best songs are about sad events and rarely about happy ones.

Well for sure fame causes it's own set of problems, I do know in BIlly Joels case, he got depression from 9-11, had 2 years in a spiral.

The Boss was never a druggie, or a boozer, its unique he never did drugs and made band mates sign contracts stating they couldnt use drugs while working with him

But he got major depression which came from his upbringing.

It's mostly chemical imbalances, but I dont think writing music causes depression, I think people inclined to depression start writing music, a way to channel it into something positive as opposed to going on a shooting spree!.

They always said rock music was sad lyrics set to happy music. And actually, that goes against prosody theory in songwriting. But rock n roll never obeyed any rules!

Depression , cant say I have ever felt it upset as a teenager because i was dropped from a football team even

though I scored Three Goals , I got over it fairly quick I did not get depressed

If I did not write songs after years of performing and writing I would be upset but maybe try something else

I knew a couple of Top Comedians who probably died of depression they were constantly up and down

I believe certain people are just born to be depressed , I knew a girl who could be bright and cheery one minute

and depressed the next, I got slung in the clink once , for some minor crime by todays standards , and even

though I was set up I just made sure I had plenty of books to read, and got on with it

I have been a musician guitarist vocalist since me teens and made a good living out of it but didnt like some of the

places I had to stay at on tours, ended up buying a Camper Van

I got married 50 years ago just got on with it nothing to be depressed about still with the same beautiful woman ,

we get a bit tired but never depressed, also never got into drugs or smoking in an addictive way I know very little

about drugs hard or mild , Drugs can ruin your life I understand that , and never needed them

Started my own Publishing Company in 1986 , mainly to publish my own stuff now publish a few other writers

Every day I wake up I am glad to be alive and nearly always write a song both lyrics and Music , I am my own best

critique and i am constantly updating my work even whist making my own Work Demos

i have three sons and one daughter they can all sing quite well and one is a Brilliant Guitarist : Bassist and Arranger

He produces all my backing tracks and I sing the vocals , Still got a Great voice I am told and I write in many genres

What is there to be DEPRESSED ABOUT

Yep, nothing to be depressed about. Think of life as an exciting movie, and we all know how it's going to end.

John

Some great comments here; thanks folks.

I agree with most..normal everyday depression is no match for the healing powers of music and using one's imagination and making stuff. It help puts the "little things" in their place.

But let's keep in mind that clinical depression is another thing entirely, and sort of takes over and then consumes one's thoughts and depletes one's energy and renders one helpless in its presence. Feel blessed if you don't have to deal with this, cuz many creative types do. Music is especially problematic as it's a language that everybody understands a little bit differently, and so there's a constant "Tower of Babel" effect we deal with, and there's been a lot of changes in the music business, and change is probably what's difficult for many and what's at the root of much serious depression.

Nick Drake became a folk music icon a decade after he died in the mid-seventies, and not even Joe Boyd his famous producer had much of a clue how crippled this young man was by his depression: Drake wrote nearly every song in a different tuning, and so it was those awkward minutes between songs (retuning his guitar when playing live) that made his live show an epic fail--that and his quiet delivery. And though his recordings were well recieved for the most part, they didn't sell at the time..so these things amplified an already pre-existing condition. We can say he was a coward for ending his life early, but I can understand being in so much crippling pain, psychic or otherwise, that thinking about ending it all seems a viable solution.

Keith Jarrett is one of the most amazing creative types to have ever been born. He can sit down at a piano and create beautiful intricate pieces of music from an empty mind--from "the void" --and his music has touched millions and has crossed and annihilated boundaries. He spent much of the nineties with chronic fatigue and it's accompanying depression. We don't think of Jarrett as a depressed guy, but if it's strong enough, sometimes it wins and can lay you low for years.

Though it's not quite a musician's version of "Roger and Me" in Nashville, MAB has been keeping a stoic front about the changes in his fair city, but I imagine when you look closely at the folks affected by the changes there, there's probably some resilient healthy folks adapting to the changes, but others who are having a difficult time of it, and if there's a pre-disposition towards depression, it may very well have found many of the musicians there..

Vic and Fdemetrio make a good point. Artistry and depression have a relationship that goes back centuries, to Beethoven pounding out his feelings on the piano and before. We can be ahead of our time and no one understands us; or we can be so reluctant to change that we become immobilized..petrified stone as a last defense against the change--that's depression, right there.

David Byrne sang "if your work isn't what you love, then something isn't right." But most of us have love/hate relationships with our (music) work. Maybe we're blessed to not have any serious (mental) health issues..and maybe we avoid some of them by living (an artistic) life in a relatively safe comfort zone? Just thowing conjecture out there, now. Don't hate me. But maybe our most beloved artists are the ones that are brave and go down into the underworld and dig stuff up where others dare not go, and then share that with us. And those that gaze into the abyss like that..you know what they say about that..

Mike

I think with the very high number of people being songwriters of all levels, and the slim chance for a career in it, I guess it's a numbers deal.

I have been having the manic-depressive times. BUT, at least I know I bounce back at a moments breath. I can't imagine those who are depressed all the time. YIKES! I really feel for them, or you, if you are one of them.

For me, it's my comprehensive memory that I can easily hear and see moving times, which makes it easy to say, "IF ONLY I had made this or that choice". BUT, as we all probably know, we make the best decision At That Time, for the time and place we are in, mentally, age-wise, money wise, love wise, kids wise, etc. SO, when Cindy reminds of that AGAIN, I can snap out of it and enjoy the minutes going by again.

I was on an SSRI from 2011 through most of 2015. Panic Attacks, when not being depressed or feeling or thinking anything stressful or negative. The docs suspected adrenilin surges along with a lower serotonin level, given my age. It STOPPED the attacks, even the sleep, (wake up ones) completely after 4 days. I wasn't depressed, so I didn't feel much change in that area. I was just able to record longer without surges, thus attacks. I could feel most of the day ones coming on, despite KNOWING NOT to panic, (ha), Yoga, Deep Breathing, Yelling STOP, etc.

This past week, I was very sad feeling. Shook it off, but would come back quickly. So, I again thought what Cindy says, and that helped a lot. Life is not for the meek or those with very high energy! Ha! For it the LOVE of playing and writing and recording only fills those gaps at the time, we are still left with pondering, (What didn't I do that I could have done)? I made TONS of money WHILE having FUN, (of course), at 15, playing in a Del Valley Top Cover Band. Got out of school on Fridays, foe we traveled to play all over for Friday night gigs, including the Catskills during the winter. The bus left around 7 am. I bought my clothes, paid room and board, (my choice), saved for a car, and had a savings account! At 15! NOW? NO retirement. NO income. And my friends think I still am one of the happiest people they know. Always up for any challenges. Tracking parts as I was getting paid a million bucks.

So yes, I can understand why the creative types battle depression more than others. We THINK way too much! We FEEL way too much! We WANT way too much! But dammit, We Deserve it ALL! That might be the hammer on the nail, right there. We think we are OWED success for what we have done.

Like is a battle, along with all the fun times. Those with illnesses of other kinds too, and medical issues such as Brains and what Sub went through is even worse. For depression can be a partner in all that. So, I am lucky, so far.

Johnny

I use my Manic Highs to create and when I'm low I just lay low.

John,

You really should find a way to get your band back up and going. as I think that would dramatically make you happier... figure out rea protection etc and just do it!

Bands have always been a very happy time for me, since 13. (15 being the start of real full time working bands for all types of venues and weddings).

I tried Etymonic ear plugs which lower all frequencies equally by 20db in the Too Little Time Band. After trial of all kinds of ways to hear the band, I found that just by me singing with no mics even, and will the plugs in or out, while just playing the guitar or piano, the rise in Tinnitus and Hyperacousis, (Worse than Tinnitus), was as if the loud band was playing.

When I record or play the guitar or piano/or keyboard here, I have to take breaks, or else really pay the price. If I was able to make money playing in some band, I could do it, justifying the worsening results as I put money into our bank account to HELP pay bills, and maybe in time to get a car again. I am housebound. Cindy has our car for work, which she pays for.

I had to stop our 2LT band in 2011, for the unreal results I had, even to the point of no matter what I used in or over my ears, the sounds were very distorted. So much so, that I thought all the speakers were cracked. I stopped a song in practice and had the guys check the amps and PA. They all looked funny at me, saying, they are as always, fine. It was two months after that which I ended my time in the band, sorry for the guys. BUT, those added two months of ear buds, no ear buds, lower volume, etc, made it much worse. To describe what my Penn U doc said my tested level was off the chart, it is as if I am wearing headphones with a steady playing of a amp hiss and zinging tones form being up WAY too loud, as if set on ten, with the Gain also at ten. Since late 2010. Been to several top rated hearing Universities in Philly. Another top doc in Jersey too. Same test results. Same suggestion to use calming techniques, which I already knew to do, or else I would have freaked out in that first day in late 2010.

When I do session work, for which I NEED more than anything for all reasons, I can control the time I spend on each track. I have learned to nail parts in one take or two, then edit as needed if not being as wanted or needed in spots. My focus for playing all parts of any instrument sound has gotten good due to it needing to be, time wise. I did sound for, (HA), for my 2LT guitarist and his girlfriend, for their acoustic duo. THAT increases, (spikes up the terrible sounds and FEELING in my brain, (nevermind just in my ears). I wish it was all just in my ears. It's surround sound, actually. Weird. So, a band now? Even an acoustic one would of course be worse, for being in the thick of it, and if singing, worse yet. My medium talking even causes spikes, I guess stimulating the audio canal's damaged nerves to send even more wrong signals to my brain.

BUT,,,,,I would LOVE to be in a band for all the obvious other results and time spent playing cover songs even. (for money). Going by what I mentioned though, it would make my condition worsen. The band sounds were as if banging trash cans were being done right IN my ears. BUT again, I can play drums for a song or two with headphones, and deal with the increase. It's the time duration though, in bands or some duo, that would not be good at all, except for making money if I could.

Is why I get sad for myself at time. The NO good results of doing all I have done to try to have something for our Golden? Years. Some coins to pay for dinner at some diner, a CAR for me. I made more money at age 15!

I can and wold do studio type session work of any genre, $$$, of any demands, as long as I can control the volume of the playback, (as I did at Subs for Springsteen's Mike Appel and for Sub alone), and as to the time spent. It still gets bad with that control, but if making some income for our household and our retirement, then GOOD! Cindy is actually my main concern, to somehow get session work for anyone, beginner to top pro if I am qualified, to make it easier on her. She is a GEM, as you know. 100% supportive for anything I try to do in music. She is the one who said to keep getting better at all aspects of it. Wow!

BUT again? A BAND at first and even second, does SOUND great, until I would hear the sounds during the breaks and of course, afterward for weeks to come, even with NO playing between. BUT again, for Cindy, if I do get a chance to play in a $$$ band, I WILL do it for her mainly. I an maybe deal with the higher symptoms. We all have crap to deal with, right?

Thanks for your thoughts and concern! Appreciated! I think, (know), I ranted too much.

John

I will soon post a song I just tracked on one day, around some breaks, ("How Are You"?, its called. Played a Les Paul for two tracks, (Land R channels), and a real Hi Hat, to try to have the key drums sound more real, besides piano and bass. All the vocal parts too. Symptoms worse of course, but I can DO this type of tracking at home. I use Logic Pro X on my Mac and one keyboard, besides the Electric and acoustic guitar I still use as you saw during 2006. (Wow,,,,,THAT Long Agao?????) Yikes! NO wonder I have symptoms! hahahaha!

Take care, and I hope you are doing better than you reported before. Terrible, what YOU had and have. I am lucky still, despite.

Hey Dave try a Benadryl a half hour before you go to bed and it puts you to sleep...
I was a psych nurse and have seen real bi polar and clinical depression and suicide attempts and it's real an ugly....

Barry, so sorry about your conditions.

What meds have you found that work most of the time, (clinically that is, or from your experience)?

I heard that those with "one" form of Bi Polar, (most don't know that), should not be on meds if having only depression.

Anyway, I hope you find good help and stay the positive course as much as possible. I struggle with overthinking/feeling, which brings on strong sadness for myself. NOT good, I know, to allow that to happen. Sometimes it seems to happen quickly though, more than a thinking of it process. ??? I then just try to kick my ass and do something constructive around the house. NO car.

Only 3 times more likely!? Wow. I would think more.

Every time I get depressed and think this all is a useless endeavor (which it may be). I remember that as hobbies go it's not so bad. For me, it beats hitting a ball around a golf course worried about the nuances of your swing or a big old guys train layout in the basement that your wife is even bored with when new bouncy 3 minute diddy will delight until the next one. :-)

Then I feel better, or at least unique again.

I just love to mix a new song. fires me up.

I had over 70,000 spins for one of my Brazilian Jazz tunes in Latin AMerica. My royalties amounted to about $2.00 (and about $60 for mechanicals) I didn't write that song before I had been composing songs for 40 years before I had one that even got airplay at all.

Yeah, is it any wonder why songwriters are depressed? Imagine if some judge told a plumber that from now on, he's going to have to work for 3/1000 of 1% of what most people make (songwriter royalties are set by consent decrees issued by judges ). I should think he'd be singing the blues as well. Why ASCAP couldn't get a better deal for us ( they sure tried ) I just can't understand. Why do these judges think that the only people who deserve to earn a living are those with billions of spins and downloads?

Around the turn of the century, a songwriter got two cents for each piano roll sold of his song. That's about $2 today. Imagine if today a songwriter got $2 for each download? You wouldn't have to sell billions to make a living, but once upon a time, it was possible. What changed? why are we being cheated today? I don't understand it. And where are all the libertarians and republicans who have been shouting deregulation --- why aren't they helping us out in the senate and congress, do they not listen to music like everyone else?

This is so sad and disgusting it makes me want to reach for the rusty razor blades. In Ayn Rand's Amazing Book Atlas Shrugged all the creators and movers and shakers just disappeared because they couldn't stand this kind of crap. I know I know I've posted my stupid song below What If The Music Died and nobody really gives a crap but here it goes again. Society doesn't know how much they would miss us if we were gone. The writers in Nashville are writing with multiple partners and they probably can't make a living anymore. This stuff needs to stop but of course nobody will do it or stick together or talk about it. The haves have and the rest don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POUTrXI4LD4

Wait!!!

If only 68% percent of musicians are depressed they are way below the national norm!

Recent unconfirmed studies have shown that 101% of adults watching the nightly news are depressed as hell and want to go jump into the ocean.

110% of students who won't be able to go to graduate school now because of the new tax code that discriminates against anyone who likes science and education are catatonic. But at least they will be able to buy $1,000 iPhones on credit just before their cars get repossessed. Buy people buy!!! Our billionaires need you!!!

I did psychological research at a pretty famous grad school and I can tell you these studies are very tricky, and context, controls, and norms are everything.

What about the research that shows that playing classical piano fires up more of the brain than doing brain surgery?

I can tell you one thing with certainty and that is that if it weren't for music I may have jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge a LONG time ago and then the only people who would have been depressed would have been the people who missed me.

So there!!!

There may be a song in there Dave

More depressed? With the level of emotion, most likely. But there is also the pay off in finding a place in it that is the most gratifying. Whatever the measure of skills and talents, whatever comes from the expression is in who feels it. And maybe looking at outlets in places that are the least anticipated.

You gotta live the blues to sing them!

Gives us something to write about.

Seems that way, TC, for when I had tried to play down and out blues, (and even try to write lyrics to go with the music), I found I was still in my usual good natured mood, which sure didn't have the music or lyrics be deep or sad.

I only was able to achieve hints of that when some things were going bad for me, (the loss of a girlfriend I cared about way back in the day, mid 70's, after my failed marriage, which too only had hints of deep sadness and whatever else true blues artists bring to the table).

I always seemed to rebound quickly, which if I was not done making a song up, I was in DEEP trouble with having even more jolly music enter into it. So, I realized I was NOT going to be any kind of a true blues artists, as much as I loved blues riffs. I could play the notes and all, but not with the deep sadness feeling needed to be sincere. Same with the lyrics. I would tend to talk myself out of being all blue, by giving advice of how to get out of that! So again, I failed in the attempt of being a true blues player and writer, which when I think about it, I am HAPPY for the non long term sadness and all that does seem needed.

Johnny,
(Out of music for the time being, as "I am on vacation from my problems") Tinnitus and Hyperacousis Studying Astronomy, with getting a new telescope still in the box, as a gift for my 65th from my daughter, Tracy. I am even happy about that! NO blues song to be had for even putting music on hold for however long. I jumped right into Astronomy, and will do the same with the telescope once I figure out ALL the parts and what the heck they do, and WHY! Wow, it is all complicated so far. Happy about that too! See?

when i get depressed,i write a blues lyric,try to make it worse than i feel,then i'm happy that i'm not the most depressed.