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#1131883 - 10/30/17 01:01 PM Admin Service Needed?  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 155
Donna Dutchess Offline
Serious Contributor
Donna Dutchess  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 155
WNY, USA
Hi. I've read the various threads about Tunecore, CD baby, etc. I've got a question. I recently fired my publisher (long story). Now I'm about to get my second cut from Canada and I'm a little bit concerned and a lot confused. Do I need to join one of those for admin services? Where do you get the various licence forms from? BMI?


https://donnadutchessmusic.com/
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/donnadutchesssongwriter
https://www.youtube.com/user/dutchessdnn
#1131908 - 10/31/17 09:21 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
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Park City, UT, USA
Do you own your own publishing? Is your publishing name registered with your PRO (I'm under the assumption that you're a BMI writer, thus you should have a BMI publishing name too). If you're registered as a publisher, you would need to let your PRO know that you have a song to register and inform them in the registration who the artist is. BMI should have reciprocal deals with all other countries.

The idea of using a publishing Admin is if you have a hit or a large catalog that would be faster to collect on from other countries, rather than waiting on the information filtering thru BMI from foreign territories.

Essentially an Admin would take over the responsibility of registering the song in all the territories its released in.

I don't recommend any publishing services provided by Tunecore or CD Baby Pro. Most people would never make back what they spend on the service.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1131920 - 11/01/17 10:26 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,069
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Joined: May 2001
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
The best solution is to find a Publisher that has license agreements in other countries such as Canada. You will have to do some research and will have to sign a Publishing Agreement but it is the best way. If I found an Artist that wanted to release some of my songs in another country I would only do it thru a U.S. Publisher. All countries that signed the Berne Agreement will have reciprocal agreements so you will receive any royalties due after other splits with the Publishers. Most first world countries including the United Kingdom have signed the Berne Agreement. Good luck.


Ray E. Strode
#1132016 - 11/03/17 11:09 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,584
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,584
Indianapolis, IN USA
What Jody said!

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

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#1132041 - 11/04/17 10:18 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,069
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Yes you can act as your own publisher. However there is no need to sign up as a Publisher with your PRO unless you are going to seek outside songs from other writers and be a real publisher. Sometime back I "borrowed" a mechanical license form from Harry Fox and worked up my own Mechanical License. The License necessarily includes all the information for the release including The Artist, Song Title, Record Label, (If any), song writer(s), Pro, number of copies the license is issued for, date paid, and requirements for one or two copies of the release for license to be issued.

I have a permission letter I send with all the required Information granting the Artist/Label permission to release the song by paying the mechanical license. When payment is received the license is sent.

As noted by signing a publishing contract the publisher does these things as well as Registering you song with the PRO.

While I am not in the business of selling music forms I can put the 2 forms as well as the BMI Registration form on a disc and send it for $20.00 Postpaid. You will need the MicroSoft Works Program to open the two forms. I can send on a Floppy Disc. If you no longer have a floppy disc drive you can buy one for around or less than 20 dollars. You just plug it into a USB Port and open it from Your My Computer link.

It is a lot of work to be your own publisher. One more thing, Canada has a different PRO, SOCAN, I Think. So who said the Music Business was easy!

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 11/04/17 10:20 AM.

Ray E. Strode
#1132073 - 11/04/17 04:28 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2001
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Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Yes you can act as your own publisher. However there is no need to sign up as a Publisher with your PRO unless you are going to seek outside songs from other writers and be a real publisher.

I realize you mean well Ray, but this is a false statement and bad advice.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1132075 - 11/04/17 04:46 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,873
John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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PA
Yes you can act as your own publisher. However there is no need to sign up as a Publisher with your PRO unless you are going to seek outside songs from other writers and be a real publisher - Ray

Or if you want the publishing share of royalties Ray.

Congrats on your second cut Donna!

Best, John smile

#1132077 - 11/04/17 07:58 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,069
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Holy Mis-information!
Have you looked at a BMI Work Registration form lately? You can Google it for a look. It plainly States, Check here if no rights are granted by writer(s) to any Publisher. It is right below where the writer(s) put their information. In case there is no Publisher, all Pro Royalties go to the writer or writers as indicated on the WORK REGISTRATION FORM. You don't need a Publisher to collect royalties. You won't receive any royalties from a Pro anyway unless you have a huge hit on the Air and the song is with a Big Publisher.

Jody, I hate to say it but you are a plethora of mis-information when it comes to a lot of things in the Music Business.


Ray E. Strode
#1132083 - 11/04/17 11:06 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2008
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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I'm with ASCAP Ray and I'd have to register as my own publisher to collect the publishing royalties. Unless it recently changed.

John smile

#1132129 - 11/05/17 08:38 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Holy Mis-information!
Have you looked at a BMI Work Registration form lately? You can Google it for a look. It plainly States, Check here if no rights are granted by writer(s) to any Publisher. It is right below where the writer(s) put their information. In case there is no Publisher, all Pro Royalties go to the writer or writers as indicated on the WORK REGISTRATION FORM. You don't need a Publisher to collect royalties. You won't receive any royalties from a Pro anyway unless you have a huge hit on the Air and the song is with a Big Publisher.

Jody, I hate to say it but you are a plethora of mis-information when it comes to a lot of things in the Music Business.

Ray, I don't think you hate saying that.

To answer to your question: No, I haven't looked at their work registrations lately. That being said... As a former BMI writer/publisher, I was advised by my BMI rep, at the time, to register a publishing entity. However BMI treated me so poorly during my tenure there that I moved my catalog over to SESAC. So I'm going by first hand experience between two of the PROs that represent writers & publishers.

BTW - I've started a thread here ( http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1132101.html#Post1132101 ) please list all the mis-information that I've proposed about the music business at JPF. Please publicly out my plethora of ignorance so I can correct my lack of knowledge.

p.s. - I'd be out half my income if I didn't register my publishing. I don't own anyone else's publishing under my two publishing entities. And despite not having a huge hit on the air, or a song with a big publisher, I do have a worldwide publishing admin for all things outside the U.S. Oh, and based on first hand experience, digital distributors do want publishing names on all digital releases. Those pesky streaming services apparently want to know who to send publishing income to.

p.p.s. - John L Schick apparently needs a publishing name too.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1132132 - 11/05/17 10:28 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,584
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,584
Indianapolis, IN USA
What Jody said.

SMH.

Ray, it's not 1987 anymore.

And frankly, for the record, selling forms to people here on a floppy that you admit "Sometime back I 'borrowed' a mechanical license form from Harry Fox" and rewrote is kind of desperate sounding. Do you really need Donna's $20.00 to send them to her? Have you ever heard of attaching them to an email? After all, you must have them in digital form already if you can put them on a floppy disk, and you registered here so I know you have email and obviously you have a working computer still, so why waste the money and effort to mail it on a disk that most computers made since early this century don't even use anymore without an add on drive. For that matter few devices even have drives for any media anymore outside of USB ports which are likely to be gone soon as well. And why would you want to charge Donna money for something that would only cost you a minute of your time to send her? After all, I know you understand free stuff being the longest tenured member here who has never tossed in a few bucks to help with the costs of this site, so why would you be a hypocrite with the friendly Donna Duchess, just to needlessly shake her down for a few bucks? Not very gentlemanly of you.

Folks, I would always defer to Jody and John here for current day issues concerning royalties since they both regularly license and sell music on all types of platforms around the world. It doesn't mean they are never wrong, all humans are sometimes, but they offer up what they know freely and without the shipping and handling fees. There was a time when I kept up with all of it, but the past few years I've let off that particular gas pedal until I need to know something, then I research and get the most up to date info from people who know, which includes John and Jody who deal with this stuff daily.

I can say that there was a time when Ray would have been a good resource as I recall a small publishing business I believe he was involved in once offered me publishing contracts on two of my songs I wrote when I was 13. Five Roses Publishing was the name and I found them in a book I would later write for called the "Songwriter's Market." My how 40 years have flown since I wrote those songs and sent them in years later when I came across that book, though I think it was the other guy I dealt with, I still have the correspondence and contracts somewhere in a box in storage. But I digress. Maybe it was a different Ray or a different "Five Roses" back then out of Georgia.

Ah, memories.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#1132135 - 11/05/17 11:15 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Park City, UT, USA
Sorry Donna, about to go off topic here based on Brian's post.

All American PROs, including Harry Fox, SoundExchange, and Music Reports use online forms and/or spreadsheets to accept information. All my song registrations are done online at the various websites. Then I send an email to my publishing admin with all relevant information for all songs for them to do the non-U.S. registrations. Once the SESAC form is filled out I also send an email to SESAC asking for them to grab me an ISWC # for each song, as that is not automatic and they have to go to ASCAP in order to get it. Used to take a few weeks to get the ISWC, now it usually takes a couple of days. After that, I plug all that info into a master spreadsheet that I keep for all my creations. Putting in writer info, publishing info, IPI/CAE, SESAC #, ISWC #, ISRC #, and other relevant Metadata. Every service has different requirements for song related data, this happens to make it easier to copy and paste it around. The new thing I'm working with is RIN data as well.

Turns out that all the Streaming Services, as well as lot of licensors like to have all relevant data. ISRC, ISWC (depends on service), writer(s), writer splits (depends on service), publisher(s), pub splits (depends on service), catalog #s (depends on service), release dates, barcodes, etc. There's a lot of data needed these days. All of which is designed to make sure all interested parties get paid appropriately.

That's my current method for any new music I put out. If a co-writer is part of it, I let them know they need to do their registrations at their PRO, but I don't do it for them. Of course, if they're a SESAC co-writer, they have nothing to do as its taken care of when I register the material. My publishing admin does not collect globally for any of my co-writers, only me. But I do let them know where our tunes have generated income so they can keep an eye out for it on their own.

I also use a PDF version of a songwriter split sheet that I created. That way, my information is automatically filled out correctly. I send it to the co-writer(s) for them to plug their information in, they save it and send it back to me. Works like a charm, reduces paper waste, can be viewed/edited on a myriad of devices (phones, computers, iPads, etc) , and creates a timestamp record of when we created the song. Not that it would hold up in a court of law, as only a registration with the Library of Congress is eligible for that - to my knowledge [take that with a grain of salt as I'm spreading a lot of misinformation apparently]. But at least its additional information prior to the LoC submission.

BTW - I'm happy to give anyone a copy of my songwriter split sheet, sans my automatic info. Its thorough and allows for up to 6 writers on it. Also, I do have quite a few boilerplate type of contracts for various music business purposes in MS word format. I'm happy to pass those along as well, for free. That being said, I always recommend that one uses a lawyer for any contracts.

All of this can be done online without the need to buy a floppy drive or floppy disc and no need to spend money on a $20 file that Harry Fox and/or Music Reports would turn around and tell you to "use our website form." Why? Because it will go right into queue for their database.

A brief aside about tech in 2017: As Brian has stated about floppy discs, they haven't been in use on the Mac side of computing since 1998, that's what 20 years ago? I haven't used CDs in 5+ years, except in special cases of request - such as the most recent JPF award submissions. The only optical discs I currently use are BluRay's. I have 50gb discs that I use as additional hardcopy backups of finished projects. I imagine in the next couple of years, I'll have to transfer those to backup SSDs as who knows if even BluRay media will last very long in the market. But they do hold a lot of data which is great for high resolution audio files.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1134091 - 12/28/17 08:52 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Nov 2017
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RonnieDean Offline
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RonnieDean  Offline
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There are also PDF files today that preclude the need for MicroSoft Works Programs on the receiving end.

#1134096 - 12/29/17 09:33 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,069
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
I would say anyone sans Publishers want you to send songs by E-Mail today. Of course nobody is accepting outside songs at present. But all other arguments aside somewhere you have to do some real work. You can't E-Mail, phone it in. Guess those "Phantom Royalty Checks are in the (E-Mail), no? Humm? Do all those Music Publishers have Brick and Mortar Offices or are they all out there in the mist waiting for the submissions to just appear out of nowhere. It is somewhat amazing that Vinyl Records are making a comeback. Heck I was eliminating all my LP's. Do you need Admin Services? I developed my own system if and when needed. And I can always assign Publishing also if needed. And damn, all it took was some education and work! Better learn how to hitch up the mules guys, you never know when you will need them!


Ray E. Strode
#1134098 - 12/29/17 10:39 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,069
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Um, Jody,
If you are selling a car to somebody do you first need to become a Car Dealer? Or if you are selling a few used CD's do you need to open up a Record Store and buy a License?
It is most amusing Brian that you would say I could just send those forms by E-Mail. Yes I could! Pay for some service! Heaven Forbid! A while back we were discussing people downloading Copyrighted song for free. I think most of us frowned on it.

I believe Jody wants to be paid something for his Music Creations.
A decade or so I bought some Photo Books on the the Photography business. One guy telling his experiences was about somebody asking him to provide photographs for free. Never mind the guy was paying everyone else for their services!
And today all those poor little students wanting the government to forgive their student loans!
The Gov of New York in bitching and moaning about the New Tax bill just passed by the Congress. I guess he is going to Sue somebody over it. The Gov of California is moaning about the place burning to he ground and now wants the Republicans to bail them out. They all vote democrat but the democrats don't have any money except what they stole from the Republicans.
Ain't that a Kick in the Head! Golly I had a bad thought. I think the Gov of New York and the Gov of California should get together and have a *ss-kissing contest. The winner takes a flying leap off the Empire State Building and the loser takes a flying leap off the Golden gate bridge. I am hot this morning!


Ray E. Strode
#1134107 - 12/29/17 03:17 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Um, Jody,
If you are selling a car to somebody do you first need to become a Car Dealer? Or if you are selling a few used CD's do you need to open up a Record Store and buy a License?

**From earlier post ** Sometime back I "borrowed" a mechanical license form from Harry Fox and worked up my own Mechanical License. The License necessarily includes all the information for the release including The Artist, Song Title, Record Label, (If any), song writer(s), Pro, number of copies the license is issued for, date paid, and requirements for one or two copies of the release for license to be issued.

This comparison is a poor metaphor for a real world business issue.

A car dealer is nowhere near the same as a publisher. A song is not a car. Cars do not constantly make income after they're sold, every time they're used. Car Dealers don't make money every time a car is used after they've sold a car. Cars don't pay a royalty every time they're started. They don't pay multiple streams of income for the tires, the motor, the wipers, the windshield, etc. Songs don't wear out parts that need replacement.

Tell us all why its a bad thing to cover your butt with publishing and being your own publisher, when it costs nothing to start a publishing name and get it registered with a PRO? When doing so means you will collect what you're due. And should a time ever come outside of your own ability to track a song that is gaining traction, then you can do an admin deal with a bigger publisher.

As for selling used CDs, do people sell them? Sure. Are they breaking the law in doing so? Who knows. But if its being done on a regular basis similar to a small business, yeah you might be breaking a law or two if you weren't getting a DBA or a license of some sort. There's also the copyright law issues if one is buying CDs, digitizing or copying them, then turning around selling them (because that's illegal despite the number of people who do it). All that being typed - streaming services are now the main way people obtain their music, thus the reselling of CDs will become mute in the near future anyway. There are hidden legal ramifications to your off-the-cuff "hot this morning" statement.

"Borrowing" a mechanical license implies you took the Harry Fox license for free - when it was already free. Then you repurposed it. Now you're attempting to sell something that came free for a fee of $20 on technology that people stopped using en mass 20 years ago and pawning it off as a publishing type of agreement that is ludicrous. Brian called you out on it, I'm going to call you out on it. If ever there was bad advice, claiming a modified mechanical license is the same as a publishing admin agreement is outright weird and quite possibly illegal. They are not one in the same. Are you an attorney that we're not aware of.

Plus, as most modern businesses do, the Mechanical Licensing forms for Harry Fox are all online at their website. Same with Music Reports, the other Mechanical License organization in the U.S. But then Donna was asking about publishing, not Mechanicals.

Registering a song's publishing at your local country's PRO covers you for a song released outside of the states. Such that if a band does do a cover of your song in say Canada, as Donna is looking at, when they get any traction on their version of the song, SOCAN [plus the 4 mechanical rights companies of Canada: SODRAC 2003 inc, CMRRA, CMRRA-SODRAC, Connect Music Licensing] (if the band properly deals with the song information) will track that money, see that its registered to a U.S. writer and publisher - then pay it to the appropriate PRO(s) and mechanical services in the U.S. who then in turn pay the writer and publisher. It takes longer to get money going this route, but covers Donna on all sides and avenues of income on her creations.

If you're going to say I'm providing bad advice (or as you termed it "Mis-Information"), you best hit back with actual facts of what I'm getting wrong along with real world examples. Stop using metaphor comparisons with insults. Step up to the plate and air your factual grievances in the thread I started in the General Forum about Jody's "Mis-information."


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1134179 - 12/31/17 10:30 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Well,
You can/are your own Publisher until you assign Publishing on one or more of your songs. Then the Publisher does all the legals required on the songs you signed Publishing Contracts on. There are Business companies that sell many Music Business forms you can buy or you can do your own. I did all my own Forms by doing much research over the years. Good luck.


Ray E. Strode
#1134233 - 12/31/17 11:55 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Dave Rice  Online Content
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Hi Jody and Brian:

Jody mentioned Music Reports earlier on this thread. I'm curious to know how they invoke the "Compulsory License Rule" on songs I have withdrawn from distribution from CDBaby and others... when they imply that they will be using my original songs from the cancelled albums. I would understand and be amenable to them providing their own recording of my original songs by another artist (preferably someone with talent and a following) but I resent the hell out of them attempting to "steal my work" and investment by claiming their right to use my original recordings under their misinterpretation of the "Compulsory License Rule." I have informed them this is by no means agreeable with me as both, an ASCAP Writer and Publisher and have not received a response from them.

For the record, I "pulled" a couple of Albums from CDBaby digital distribution because my musical skills were minimal at the time and I've either re-recorded or re-written almost every song on both albums if I believed they had any real potential. This sounds like "dart-boarding" by an intern at Music Reports to me.

Any words of wisdom? ----Dave

Last edited by Dave Rice; 12/31/17 11:57 PM. Reason: Clarification
#1134237 - 01/01/18 02:40 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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I am simply going to suggest you ask for guidance from your ASCAP rep. They should take an interest in this topic and I am interested to learn their reaction to these activities. Let us know. Perhaps Jody can offer more insight or even ask his SESAC rep what they think of their policies.


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#1134271 - 01/01/18 05:47 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
I'm curious to know how they invoke the "Compulsory License Rule" on songs I have withdrawn from distribution from CDBaby and others... when they imply that they will be using my original songs from the cancelled albums. I would understand and be amenable to them providing their own recording of my original songs by another artist (preferably someone with talent and a following) but I resent the hell out of them attempting to "steal my work" and investment by claiming their right to use my original recordings under their misinterpretation of the "Compulsory License Rule." I have informed them this is by no means agreeable with me as both, an ASCAP Writer and Publisher and have not received a response from them.

For the record, I "pulled" a couple of Albums from CDBaby digital distribution because my musical skills were minimal at the time and I've either re-recorded or re-written almost every song on both albums if I believed they had any real potential. This sounds like "dart-boarding" by an intern at Music Reports to me.

Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I am simply going to suggest you ask for guidance from your ASCAP rep. They should take an interest in this topic and I am interested to learn their reaction to these activities. Let us know. Perhaps Jody can offer more insight or even ask his SESAC rep what they think of their policies.

I'm guessing that Brian is referring to this particular post by Dave...

First off, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC even SoundExchange have nothing to do with Music Reports. Music Reports is like Harry Fox, they are a mechanical licensing company. That being said, in all transparency, SESAC and their owners also own Harry Fox.

Dave, you have asked this question before, and I posted a response. Here's a response to this one.

To think that a mechanical licensing company is going to record your music for you and provide an artist to sing it - where do you come up with a theory like that?

Reality is this:

1. They are working thru a list of material that was given to them via whatever digital streaming service asked to get the license. It wasn't Spotify as Spotify uses Harry Fox. Nor is any music under your name on Spotify. What this actually means is that you would eventually see more than one NOI for any song you have released digitally. You will eventually see an NOI for ever service that comes online where a song is distributed.

2. It would still be relevant for them to have had a need to send out an NOI based on the fact (that you admit) your music was on the services at some point. Resent them all you want, they're following the laws that have been imposed on them.

3. If you have taken this type of tone in reaching out to them to inform them about a process they've been hired to do by a 3rd party, they probably gave the 3rd party the information that the NOI was sent and then left you alone. There is no further action on their part and there's thousands of artists they have to process. They're obviously not collecting any money for you for music that isn't distributed. Though I do see a song called "A Flower for the Ganges" on Spotify. Harry Fox would be collecting mechanicals for that and Music Reports would be collecting the mechanicals for that as well from services like Apple Music, Tidal, etc.

4. Again, they are not attempting to "steal your work" - they are following the law. It is law that the streaming services have to get a compulsory license for music that is appearing in their service. If you're that concerned with your catalog - hire a lawyer and seek said lawyer's advice on your perceived theft and use of your work.

Brian, I'm not really concerned what SESAC thinks about the NOIs that I get all the time. I know what they are for and I also understand that the services are following what the law is asking them to do.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1134274 - 01/01/18 06:33 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Hi Jody:

Before I forget, my apologies to Donna D for "hijacking her thread." It isn't a theory... I'm looking at a letter (actually a series of three) informing me of their intended action... on behalf on another company. IMHO... nobody has the right to take my songs being sung by me... and grant a license to another company planning to use my work as originally placed by me on CDBaby. I paid CDBaby for digital distribution and then shut down the deal with them... as they promised I could do. Just because I took my album down (crappy singing on my part) how could anybody decide my vocals from my "dead albums" are fair game?

If the NOI was being sought for some other artist to sing my songs... I understand the legality of that. To my way of thinking, they are twisting the law way beyond the intent of the compulsory licensing law's intent.

Getting a lawyer would be another exercise in futility. I didn't make enough money from the digital distribution to recover my original cost. LOL! Sending good money after bad is neither wise nor prudent. I just wondered if the law has been changed to permit piracy?

Music has come a long way... and appears to be headed down the path to the pit where they keep the pendulum.

Thanks for your input. ----Dave

#1134277 - 01/01/18 07:54 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Before I forget, my apologies to Donna D for "hijacking her thread." It isn't a theory... I'm looking at a letter (actually a series of three) informing me of their intended action... on behalf on another company. IMHO... nobody has the right to take my songs being sung by me... and grant a license to another company planning to use my work as originally placed by me on CDBaby. I paid CDBaby for digital distribution and then shut down the deal with them... as they promised I could do. Just because I took my album down (crappy singing on my part) how could anybody decide my vocals from my "dead albums" are fair game?

Dave, you have admitted it twice now. That you had digital distribution via CD Baby. Which means that at some point whatever music you distributed via that distribution went to multiple companies before it pulled down. What this means is that at some point in time, your music that you controlled was on said services. That's what those NOIs are - they name the song(s), the service, the artist, the label.

The backlog on how many songs went thru the system means that services like Harry Fox and Music Reports were and are playing catchup. Just because you pulled your music from distribution does not exclude that at some point in time said music was on those services. Which means, by law, they had to give notice that they needed a compulsory license to have had your music for the time it was there. Again, its them doing this because your music was there at one time.

Its not a matter of them thinking your music is fair game for something nefarious.

If you're not a lawyer, it really isn't a matter of if you think they're twisting the law. Whatever you think the law is, they are doing what is required of them by law to be in accordance with the law as it happens to relate to streaming and mechanicals. This included that however-short-a-time your music was on those services.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand and why you are so upset about it.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1134281 - 01/01/18 09:57 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Thanks for taking the time to explain this, Jody:

When CDBaby advertises they will pull the content (when a client decides to scrap an album) it implies that all those other organizations will be informed the song(s) are no longer available. Alas, you have discovered I failed Rocket Science and Medical School but I take comfort in knowing that some poor schnook thinks that even my worst songs are something worth selling. I take much displeasure at not receiving the fruits of my labor. Would you not be unhappy to know your songs were being used without your permission? If philanthropy is your thing... perhaps I can "hit you up" for a loan when we meet next at the Grammys? Chuckling uncontrollably as he returns to the Alabama - Clemson game. Unfortunately, my Razorbacks never even got on the bus this year.

Happy New Year, ----Dave

#1134282 - 01/02/18 12:26 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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You're welcome Dave.

As for the whole illegal use of my songs thing, yeah of course I'd be upset. But there is a difference between illegal use, and pulling your stuff out of distribution and thinking its instantaneous. Removing things from distribution takes time. Rather than beat a dead horse, just remember they still needed to get those licenses for the short period of time that you did grant digital rights to your songs. Its the law. It wasn't illegal use.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com

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