Who's Online Now
10 registered members (Martin Lide, David Snyder, Barry David Butler, 9ne, Roy Cooper, Vicarn, Travis david, Calvin, TC Perkins, 1 invisible), and 215 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Posts: 458
Joined: September 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Daily Distractions 11-17-17
by Barry David Butler. 11/21/17 08:47 AM
Did she talk about me? Travis and Vic
by Vicarn. 11/21/17 07:23 AM
I Will Stand By You
by Calvin. 11/21/17 05:29 AM
COWBOYS FAREWELL
by Travis david. 11/20/17 01:43 PM
I Remember Autumn
by David Snyder. 11/20/17 12:58 PM
A SONG I FORGOT TO WRITE.
by Travis david. 11/20/17 12:53 PM
Father and Son
by Travis david. 11/20/17 12:52 PM
When Blue Turns To Gray
by Fdemetrio. 11/20/17 10:51 AM
Hollywood Groper
by Fdemetrio. 11/20/17 10:49 AM
How to Be True to Yourself
by beechnut79. 11/20/17 10:28 AM
A Voice From The Womb (Tomb)
by beechnut79. 11/20/17 10:27 AM
Passing By
by beechnut79. 11/20/17 10:22 AM
Friday Night Battle Cry (Let's Dance)
by beechnut79. 11/20/17 10:19 AM
Hard Times On Mainstreet
by Barry David Butler. 11/20/17 09:03 AM
I Want More
by E Swartz. 11/20/17 08:57 AM
Say Cheese and Smile
by Neil Cotton. 11/20/17 08:02 AM
Christmas Truck_It's Never Too Early
by E Swartz. 11/20/17 07:25 AM
Can You Catch My Soul - spiritual
by E Swartz. 11/20/17 07:14 AM
JPF Virtual Telethon II
by Roy Cooper. 11/20/17 04:52 AM
Stinking Politicians / What's So Damn Funny
by Barry David Butler. 11/19/17 07:28 PM
Dropping IMDb...
by John Lawrence Schick. 11/19/17 06:21 PM
Having Fun 7
by David Snyder. 11/19/17 03:16 PM
The Sounds Of Silence
by Ray E. Strode. 11/19/17 11:09 AM
Suite: Monster
by Travis david. 11/19/17 06:24 AM
Making Great Demos with BIAB
by Martin Lide. 11/18/17 07:27 PM
We Need Real Farmers (Revised)
by Neil Cotton. 11/18/17 03:57 PM
Love Is Contagious
by Barry David Butler. 11/18/17 03:50 PM
On Top Of The Heap
by Neil Cotton. 11/18/17 02:47 PM
With The Gods Above
by Michael LeBlanc. 11/18/17 11:09 AM
"I Believe"
by Barry David Butler. 11/18/17 08:06 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,190
Kevin Emmrich 10,531
Jean Bullock 10,330
Travis david 10,307
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,746
Mike Dunbar 8,574
glynda 8,560
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,822
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,213
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,428
Joe Wrabek 6,400
Dave Rice 6,194
ben willis 6,069
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,718
Linda Sings 5,601
niteshift 5,323
Vicarn 5,238
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,605
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,344
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
Neil Cotton 4,133
nightengale 3,964
TamsNumber4 3,962
Roy Cooper 3,897
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,760
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
beechnut79 3,261
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
E Swartz 2,926
PopTodd 2,874
Harriet Ames 2,868
Nigel Quin 2,802
MidniteBob 2,687
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Nelson 2,404
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,241
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,151
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Ray Thyer 1,929
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,770
floyd jane 1,713
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,592
Cal 1,574
Rick Heenan 1,561
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,451
RogerS 1,445
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,427
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
Stan Simons 1,402
in2piano 1,399
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,300
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
GocartMoz 1,261
Janice & Bud 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
PeteG 1,214
IdeaGuy 1,209
Glen King 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
summeoyo 1,083
Gerry 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
joro 1,045
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
lane1777 930
Jak Kelly 912
IronKnee 894
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
90 dB 745
tbryson 737
Andy K 733
Andy Kemp 732
Jackie444 720
ant 710
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
9ne 607
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
Pat Hardy 580
qbaum 570
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
Irwin 526
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
Moosesong 508
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
R&M 444
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 398
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
Cecilee 376
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 352
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
Deej56 303
ed323 297
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
pammie 279
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1131954 - 11/02/17 10:46 AM Songwriting Coaches  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Douglas Murphy Offline
Top 40 Poster
Douglas Murphy  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
whenever I finish a lyric, put it to music and make up a demo I am satisfied but always wonder if it is as good as it can be. I am limited by my own likes and dislikes and I am looking now for some coaching. If any here have used such services in the past or are using one now what can you tell me about your experiences. I realize that this is a pay for service but how do you know which ones, and there are many here in cyberland, are worth it?

Douglas Murphy
country/folk/easy listening


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1131955 - 11/02/17 11:58 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Ray E. Strode Offline
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Offline
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Humm,
I sometimes re-visit some of my songs I was not completely satisfied with and made changes to the song. I'm sure it happens quite a bit. You may have songs that are not quite up to being selected by an artist for recording and release. That is why you keep writing for more acceptable songs that will be selected for recording and release.

When you sign a Publishing Contract there is a Clause in the contract allowing the song to be edited if required so an Artist is able to use it. So write the best song you can but understand it may be modified for an artist if needed.
I do not recommend Critique Services you pay for. You can have half a dozen people critique a song and get half a dozen opinions. Let a publisher and artist do that. Good luck.


Ray E. Strode
#1131958 - 11/02/17 01:49 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Douglas Murphy Offline
Top 40 Poster
Douglas Murphy  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
thanks, Ray. It really is confusing, isn't it? I mean we can be our own worst and best critique and it might be beneficial to get that honest feedback but I wonder, as you mentioned, just what makes his or her opinions better than any other? Dose any others have an opinion on this subject?

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1131961 - 11/02/17 03:09 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,531
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,531
Crozet, VA
Why not give Marc Alan Barnette a shout? He is definitely is helpful. His web site is here: https://www.marcalanbarnette.com/
Or just PM him or post on one of his threads.


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#1131963 - 11/02/17 03:45 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,273
Ricki E. Bellos Offline
Top 40 Poster
Ricki E. Bellos  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,273
Wisconsin
I have paid for such services in the not too distant past and have come to the conclusion that the bad ones are the ones who don't like my songs and the best ones are the ones that tell me what I already know, that they're great! smile

I've come to the conclusion that when I feel really good about a song, it doesn't really matter if an "expert" thinks it's good. If it makes me happy, well isn't that the point? If you're looking to pitch songs then you probably could use a coach because they can tell you what "sells", and all the "do and don't" things you need to know. And yeah, Marc is a good source of info. He's shared a lot with us here at JPF and other websites for free. If you want more one-on-one with him, I'm sure it would be even more beneficial.

But you're right, there are a lot of such services available. What works for one person may not work for another. The "best" one would be the one that clicks with you, that you feel comfortable with and you won't know that until you test drive them, kind of like buying a car...or dating! grin

Happy hunting.

#1131965 - 11/02/17 06:31 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,649
Barry David Butler Online content
Top 200 Poster
Barry David Butler  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,649
Sebring, Florida USA
If it cost money don't do it and I mean anything as they are all rip offs....My dog can tell me about my songs better than these creeps.

#1131968 - 11/02/17 08:13 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Ray E. Strode Offline
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Offline
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
I've had a couple of my songs demoed where the demo service really liked the songs. If they like your songs you can bet they will "Nail it" on the demo. Both songs are on the Web Site. The songs are I'LL TAKE IT FROM HERE and AROUND AND AROUND. The Web Site is http://www.geocities.ws/fiverosesmusicgroup/ Keep writing, you never know when a song will "hit".


Ray E. Strode
#1131971 - 11/03/17 12:42 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Fdemetrio Offline
Casual Observer
Fdemetrio  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Songwriting coaches are generally guys who haven't had success placing their own songs, or placed songs long ago, and can't any more.

I'm all for trying to improve, but I'm not sure paying money for a.critique is your answer. And when you are paying, nobody is going to tell you you stink,

Play the song live, you get a small yet decent feedback that way, people don't mind yelling you suck in a small venue, that is, if you can find anywhere to play these days!

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/03/17 12:43 AM.
#1131976 - 11/03/17 07:03 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by Douglas Murphy
whenever I finish a lyric, put it to music and make up a demo I am satisfied but always wonder if it is as good as it can be. I am limited by my own likes and dislikes and I am looking now for some coaching. If any here have used such services in the past or are using one now what can you tell me about your experiences. I realize that this is a pay for service but how do you know which ones, and there are many here in cyberland, are worth it?

Douglas Murphy
country/folk/easy listening



This is easy. Join Taxi. Many people miss one of the best services they offer which s giving you professional feedback on songs not good enough for market. It costs 5 bucks per submission so you either get forwarded meaning it's already good enough or detailed feedback from an industry professional. It is a great low cost deal especially if you'd also like to pitch your stuff. And if you want a positive sometimes life changing experience, go out for their FREE Taxi Road Rally conference. www.taxi.com (and no, they are not JPF sponsors nor have they been for many years).


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1131978 - 11/03/17 07:35 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Douglas Murphy Offline
Top 40 Poster
Douglas Murphy  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Thank you, Brian. I am wondering if my lyrics and my music are ready and I know that over the past this topic has come up time and time again. I am going to re-visit their page later today.

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1131979 - 11/03/17 08:00 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,649
Barry David Butler Online content
Top 200 Poster
Barry David Butler  Online Content
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,649
Sebring, Florida USA
In my humble opinion Taxi is not a good place to go and it cost a fortune.

#1131982 - 11/03/17 10:56 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Douglas Murphy Offline
Top 40 Poster
Douglas Murphy  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
AH! Barry the truth must be out there somewhere. smile According to those in the know it is a crap shoot at best. Who knows where the next song is coming from and if a simple demo highlighting it will work? "No. Really? Who knows?" I don't and though I am not second guessing my lyrics or my ability to get them across musically I wonder what one has to do.

Here I can post, and critique but what makes my opinion that special, that important? AND since actually taking the time to 'critique' takes time I find that other than the 'likes' I receive either here or elsewhere it still ends up to me to be the best or worse critique I can be for what I do.

Frustrating, to say the least, but I am in between the paying or not paying someone mainly because and again, "What makes their opinion any more valid than someone else?

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1131983 - 11/03/17 11:29 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 156
MATT STONEHAM Offline
Serious Contributor
Happy Birthday MATT STONEHAM  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 156
Le Monde
If You Have To Ask Taxi If Your Songs Are Good Enough I would say don't

bother because if you don't know, they are not good enough

Douglas has got a very good point about opinions

If you can play an instrument and sing, you have a start over others who don't

The worst thing you can do on a demo is try and sing if your voice is not up to it

Two old friends of mine who passed away a few years back waisted money having

Demos of songs that were quite honestly below average ,

It's very easy to say I Like this , mainly because an honest critique is not what they

are looking for It's pats on the back , and that's what keeps them at it .

It can take ten to thirty years for some would be writers to get something even close

to a CUT , but most fail , There are many reasons , and you can find an awful lot of help

from the better books that are out there , Re Write and Re Write and then re Write Again

You will become a better writer if you practice writing in many genres ;


Without the right music your clever lyrics will never be heard, if you want success be prepared to re write many times and even change the meter you chose originally
#1131994 - 11/03/17 02:32 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Barry David Butler]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Songwriting coaches are generally guys who haven't had success placing their own songs, or placed songs long ago, and can't any more.

I'm all for trying to improve, but I'm not sure paying money for a.critique is your answer. And when you are paying, nobody is going to tell you you stink

This may or may not be true. But I get people who come to me for my advice. While I don't make it a business of providing feedback, I will ask they buy me lunch or something for my time. Then again, I've had 1,000s of placements and usages. Are there people out there who critique and haven't had any success? Probably. But doing your due diligence on who you're asking advice from is the songwriter's responsibility.

There's a couple of people on this site who do make it a business to mentor others. And they're good at what they do. MAB being one of them.

Originally Posted by Barry David Butler
In my humble opinion Taxi is not a good place to go and it cost a fortune.

[sarcasm]Yeah, I can understand how paying to have actual A&R people that work at the labels give you feedback could be a real waste of your time and money.[/sarcasm]


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1132018 - 11/04/17 12:42 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Fdemetrio Offline
Casual Observer
Fdemetrio  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Songwriting coaches are generally guys who haven't had success placing their own songs, or placed songs long ago, and can't any more.

I'm all for trying to improve, but I'm not sure paying money for a.critique is your answer. And when you are paying, nobody is going to tell you you stink

This may or may not be true. But I get people who come to me for my advice. While I don't make it a business of providing feedback, I will ask they buy me lunch or something for my time. Then again, I've had 1,000s of placements and usages. Are there people out there who critique and haven't had any success? Probably. But doing your due diligence on who you're asking advice from is the songwriter's responsibility.

There's a couple of people on this site who do make it a business to mentor others. And they're good at what they do. MAB being one of them.

Originally Posted by Barry David Butler
In my humble opinion Taxi is not a good place to go and it cost a fortune.

[sarcasm]Yeah, I can understand how paying to have actual A&R people that work at the labels give you feedback could be a real waste of your time and money.[/sarcasm]


Jody, it may be semantics, but I think there is a difference between placing songs in movies and tv, and writing songs for another artist, in hopes they will have a hit with it.

To me songwriting coaches focus on the latter. And those are the ones who wouldn't be doing it if they were scoring hits and placing songs with majors all the time

Correct me if I'm wrong, but tv and movie spots most often use 30 seconds iof a track, so placing for tv and ml it's is more about how you sound than how you write

But I'm sure mentoring can help in either case.

But songwriting is an art, making money is an art too I suppose but for a different reason

I dint have any problem with teachers or coaches, everybody can use them from time to time. Yet at the end of the day nobody really knows what a great song is, they only know what they like to hear,

But it's cool you have all those placements

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/04/17 12:44 AM.
#1132022 - 11/04/17 05:27 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Indianapolis, IN USA
Taxi isn't for everyone. If you are short on talent and unwilling to listen to and act on constructive feedback, then you should not join TAXI nor should you pay ANYONE to do anything for your songs, because you know, you apparently know better in the first place and don't need their help. If, on the other hand you have a reasonable amount of talent and you want to hone your skills in ways that would help you guide your talent towards being commercially viable, then TAXI is the only valid option I have seen out there to help. 99% of the people asking for money to help you in the music business are frauds. It doesn't mean they all have bad intentions, but in truth no one can ever help you if you aren't serious about taking the advice and acting on it and also working hard at your craft every day, producing new content and improving that content regularly based on feedback and indications if your stuff is even competitive. That's what TAXI is good at doing. But it means you still have to do the work and bring the talent and drive and persistence. If that doesn't apply to you, stop wasting your time dreaming about commercial success and just enjoy making music. There's nothing wrong with that. And you can always post it online or make a video to go with it and post it on Youtube. If you have a clever idea for a video, especially if it is humorous or politically relevant, you might even gain some followers/fans that way. Additionally, play out live anytime you have a chance, not to become famous, but for the joy of it.

That's the best advice my nearly 33 years of experience helping musicians can offer and I am the last person who would ever tell you to spend money on something that wasn't worth it. If you're serious, TAXI is a solid tool. But if all of the above doesn't apply to you, don't do it. Just make music and understand your ability to do so is something 98% of the world wishes they too had the talent to pull off. You can be happy and fulfilled without a hit or a fan base. Music is a gift, so be grateful you have it in you if you do.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1132030 - 11/04/17 07:58 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Douglas Murphy Offline
Top 40 Poster
Douglas Murphy  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Great words of advice Brian. "I know it may sound funny but money don't mean nothing to me. I don't make my music for money 'cause I make my music for me." Kenny Rodgers

CD Baby and Taxi is in my future even if it is only for a year with Taxi to get 'paid' critiques.


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1132297 - 11/10/17 05:48 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 156
MATT STONEHAM Offline
Serious Contributor
Happy Birthday MATT STONEHAM  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 156
Le Monde
whenever I finish a lyric, put it to music and make up a demo I am satisfied but always wonder if it is as good as it can be. I am limited by my own likes and dislikes and I am looking now for some coaching. If any here have used such services in the past or are using one now what can you tell me about your experiences. I realize that this is a pay for service but how do you know which ones, and there are many here in cyberland, are worth it?

Douglas Murphy
country/folk/easy listening

DOUGLASS According to Pro writers that I know , and it's something I agree with the best way to write a
song is to do both the music and lyrics together, (at the same time) I work that way and have had more
satisfaction , than trying to work with someone's finished lyric

This method assumes one can do both, Another method is to put a new lyric to an existing hit song, and
then change the music from the original , this method can work as well, as the Pro Writers fully understand
Repetition , Meter and Rhyme Schemes as well as so much more

We can learn from everyone even Bad Writers of Poor Songs
Above all enjoy your writing also try writing in as many genres as you can

Last edited by MATT STONEHAM; 11/10/17 05:50 AM.

Without the right music your clever lyrics will never be heard, if you want success be prepared to re write many times and even change the meter you chose originally
#1132324 - 11/10/17 01:46 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Fdemetrio]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Jody, it may be semantics, but I think there is a difference between placing songs in movies and tv, and writing songs for another artist, in hopes they will have a hit with it.

Actually writing music for me always has a purpose now. If I write music for a movie, tv, trailer, video game, commercial, or another artist, its always about getting them what they need for their audience. Going for placements, is going for placements regardless of what its for. Whether you hit the zeitgeist or not is something completely different.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1132331 - 11/10/17 03:04 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Fdemetrio Offline
Casual Observer
Fdemetrio  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
in a business sense, I guess.

so we can agree songwriting coaches are about trying for some sort of commercial success.

In school, we didn't learn how to write or how to read to make money. We did it because it makes us efficient human beings.

Learning songwriting in class should be about becoming a good songwriter, not about making money at songwriting.

Ie. When we take guitar lessons or piano lessons, it's not to become rock stars or country stars, or anything else, but to learn how to play the instrument

Seems like songwriting coaches want to make money dangling the chance at making money in front of their clients

The question you have to ask, is why do you want coaching? The answer may come shortly after the question.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 11/10/17 03:06 PM.
#1132337 - 11/10/17 05:29 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,501
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,501
PA
Songwriting coaches? Reminds me of what Ravel told Gershwin when Gershwin wanted to study with Ravel. Ravel turned him down. He said if you study with me you'll be composing poor Ravel rather than good Gershwin. Dig deep into your soul to find your special place. Then be true to yourself. Trust yourself. And blah, blah, blah... laugh

That being said... we all are influenced by what we hear and have heard. And we all use the same raw materials.

Good luck Douglas!

Best, John smile

#1132346 - 11/11/17 04:59 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Jody, it may be semantics, but I think there is a difference between placing songs in movies and tv, and writing songs for another artist, in hopes they will have a hit with it.

Actually writing music for me always has a purpose now. If I write music for a movie, tv, trailer, video game, commercial, or another artist, its always about getting them what they need for their audience. Going for placements, is going for placements regardless of what its for. Whether you hit the zeitgeist or not is something completely different.


Ha! I tried to tell you all of this starting in the late 90's Jody... I remember you arguing these ideas in a parking lot after we had a late night group meal after a show... you've come a long way grasshopper!


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1132350 - 11/11/17 09:30 AM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,838
Marc Barnette Offline
Top 100 Poster
Marc Barnette  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,838
Nashville, Tn.
There are a million opinions on this. Some people embrace it and have great success, some hate them, and go their own way. Personally, my use of one at the beginning of my career before I moved to Nashville is the reason I got a cut my first night in town because he showed me techniques I could have taken decades to learn, and greatly sped up my process. It also helped me approach co-writing with others and the different dynamics of personality which to me is the most important part of anything.

Whatever you do, you should ask for references and see what other people have experienced, listen to their songs and most of all, see if their personality is someone you can get along with. Song coaches, like guitar teachers, piano teachers, voice teachers, lend expertise that go beyond the song. There are a million other things about etticate, about process, about follow through, that only work through working with others. So if they are good, they will help you beyond the song as well. Possibly placements but more likely how to deal with some of the people you will encounter in your musical journey. It is NEVER JUST ABOUT THE SONG. There are always hundreds of issues BEYOND the song you have to be aware of. This is the business of PERSONALITY AND EGO so you better understand how those all come to play.

Thanks for those of you who mentioned me, and for those of you who don't care for me or any of us, that is fine too. It's not for everybody. But is a viable option when you get as far as you can go, and need someone to help out, it can be good as much for a sounding board than anything else. Beware of people that over promise and underdeliver. And keep things in perspective. It is ONLY an OPINION, and only ONE PART OF AN OVERALL JOURNEY.

MAB

#1132363 - 11/11/17 01:15 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Ha! I tried to tell you all of this starting in the late 90's Jody... I remember you arguing these ideas in a parking lot after we had a late night group meal after a show... you've come a long way grasshopper!

I remember that night well.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1132446 - 11/14/17 07:36 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 580
Pat Hardy Offline
Top 500 Poster
Pat Hardy  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 580
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode


When you sign a Publishing Contract there is a Clause in the contract allowing the song to be edited if



And I always add..."subject to composer/lyricist approval" to that clause or I don't sign. Of course, if the artist is big enough, that's another story, I'd probably be a lot more accepting of whatever change was needed.

#1132448 - 11/14/17 07:45 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 580
Pat Hardy Offline
Top 500 Poster
Pat Hardy  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 580
Originally Posted by Douglas Murphy
whenever I finish a lyric, put it to music and make up a demo I am satisfied but always wonder if it is as good as it can be. I am limited by my own likes and dislikes and I am looking now for some coaching. If any here have used such services in the past or are using one now what can you tell me about your experiences. I realize that this is a pay for service but how do you know which ones, and there are many here in cyberland, are worth it?

Douglas Murphy
country/folk/easy listening


I think the best way to go is to join a songwriting guild, and shop it there for live feedback. It's helped me a lot in the past. Others will perform their songs, you can learn just by listening to what others are doing, and nothing like live reaction to a song, the audience reaction is the truth (usually, there are different audiences, of course ).

I once had a chance meeting with one of the founders of the L.A songwriter's guild back round about 1976, it was before it became a big organization, Len Chandler I think was his name, ( I was selling a motorcycle, and he showed up to buy it, and I struck up a conversation since I recognized him ). He told me a story about how he heard the demo to "Three Times A Lady" before it became a hit song. He told me how he had this heady criticism of the lyric that upon hearing the demo. Later, the song became a hit, no lyric change, and the point of the story was, even those who are supposed to know can get too much into the technical, the cerebral, and miss the song. The point was, don't accept any one person's word for it, play it for a lot of people, and look for points for which there is a consensus. If one person says something, and he or she is the only one saying it, it's not an issue, probably. but if 30 people hear the song, and six or seven say the samething about it, you have an issue. also, public boards are a bad way to get criticism, because of the "bandwagon effect". One guy says something, and another says "me, too". But, nothing like an audience reaction to get the truth.



Last edited by Pat Hardy; 11/14/17 07:46 PM.
#1132473 - 11/15/17 06:29 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Douglas Murphy Offline
Top 40 Poster
Douglas Murphy  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Thank you, Pat great advice.

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
#1132474 - 11/15/17 06:32 PM Re: Songwriting Coaches [Re: Douglas Murphy]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Douglas Murphy Offline
Top 40 Poster
Douglas Murphy  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,127
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
and thank you MAB.

Douglas


"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy

Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8

Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
mason_mcmahon, Lingbeek, David Snyder, bassmanmike, ahendriks
20967 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics117,177
Posts1,103,138
Members20,968
Average Posts Daily37
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"A lot of people will tell you that preparation is what will make you successful. But I think that people misunderstand exactly what that means sometimes. The type of preparation you need most is the kind that allows you to instantly seize an opportunity, change your course based on a momentary circumstance, and grab hold of the totally unexpected when it happens, and allow it to take you for the ride of your life! That is the kind of preparation that can lead to the most enjoyable type of success." -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
Mahlers.Com (50), MATT STONEHAM (58)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0