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#1131883 - 10/30/17 01:01 PM Admin Service Needed?  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 153
Donna Dutchess Offline
Serious Contributor
Donna Dutchess  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 153
WNY, USA
Hi. I've read the various threads about Tunecore, CD baby, etc. I've got a question. I recently fired my publisher (long story). Now I'm about to get my second cut from Canada and I'm a little bit concerned and a lot confused. Do I need to join one of those for admin services? Where do you get the various licence forms from? BMI?


https://donnadutchessmusic.com/
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/donnadutchesssongwriter
https://www.youtube.com/user/dutchessdnn
#1131908 - 10/31/17 09:21 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Park City, UT, USA
Do you own your own publishing? Is your publishing name registered with your PRO (I'm under the assumption that you're a BMI writer, thus you should have a BMI publishing name too). If you're registered as a publisher, you would need to let your PRO know that you have a song to register and inform them in the registration who the artist is. BMI should have reciprocal deals with all other countries.

The idea of using a publishing Admin is if you have a hit or a large catalog that would be faster to collect on from other countries, rather than waiting on the information filtering thru BMI from foreign territories.

Essentially an Admin would take over the responsibility of registering the song in all the territories its released in.

I don't recommend any publishing services provided by Tunecore or CD Baby Pro. Most people would never make back what they spend on the service.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1131920 - 11/01/17 10:26 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Ray E. Strode Offline
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Ray E. Strode  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
The best solution is to find a Publisher that has license agreements in other countries such as Canada. You will have to do some research and will have to sign a Publishing Agreement but it is the best way. If I found an Artist that wanted to release some of my songs in another country I would only do it thru a U.S. Publisher. All countries that signed the Berne Agreement will have reciprocal agreements so you will receive any royalties due after other splits with the Publishers. Most first world countries including the United Kingdom have signed the Berne Agreement. Good luck.


Ray E. Strode
#1132016 - 11/03/17 11:09 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Indianapolis, IN USA
What Jody said!

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1132041 - 11/04/17 10:18 AM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Ray E. Strode Offline
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Ray E. Strode  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Yes you can act as your own publisher. However there is no need to sign up as a Publisher with your PRO unless you are going to seek outside songs from other writers and be a real publisher. Sometime back I "borrowed" a mechanical license form from Harry Fox and worked up my own Mechanical License. The License necessarily includes all the information for the release including The Artist, Song Title, Record Label, (If any), song writer(s), Pro, number of copies the license is issued for, date paid, and requirements for one or two copies of the release for license to be issued.

I have a permission letter I send with all the required Information granting the Artist/Label permission to release the song by paying the mechanical license. When payment is received the license is sent.

As noted by signing a publishing contract the publisher does these things as well as Registering you song with the PRO.

While I am not in the business of selling music forms I can put the 2 forms as well as the BMI Registration form on a disc and send it for $20.00 Postpaid. You will need the MicroSoft Works Program to open the two forms. I can send on a Floppy Disc. If you no longer have a floppy disc drive you can buy one for around or less than 20 dollars. You just plug it into a USB Port and open it from Your My Computer link.

It is a lot of work to be your own publisher. One more thing, Canada has a different PRO, SOCAN, I Think. So who said the Music Business was easy!

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 11/04/17 10:20 AM.

Ray E. Strode
#1132073 - 11/04/17 04:28 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Yes you can act as your own publisher. However there is no need to sign up as a Publisher with your PRO unless you are going to seek outside songs from other writers and be a real publisher.

I realize you mean well Ray, but this is a false statement and bad advice.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1132075 - 11/04/17 04:46 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,501
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,501
PA
Yes you can act as your own publisher. However there is no need to sign up as a Publisher with your PRO unless you are going to seek outside songs from other writers and be a real publisher - Ray

Or if you want the publishing share of royalties Ray.

Congrats on your second cut Donna!

Best, John smile

#1132077 - 11/04/17 07:58 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Ray E. Strode Offline
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Offline
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,838
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Holy Mis-information!
Have you looked at a BMI Work Registration form lately? You can Google it for a look. It plainly States, Check here if no rights are granted by writer(s) to any Publisher. It is right below where the writer(s) put their information. In case there is no Publisher, all Pro Royalties go to the writer or writers as indicated on the WORK REGISTRATION FORM. You don't need a Publisher to collect royalties. You won't receive any royalties from a Pro anyway unless you have a huge hit on the Air and the song is with a Big Publisher.

Jody, I hate to say it but you are a plethora of mis-information when it comes to a lot of things in the Music Business.


Ray E. Strode
#1132083 - 11/04/17 11:06 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,501
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,501
PA
I'm with ASCAP Ray and I'd have to register as my own publisher to collect the publishing royalties. Unless it recently changed.

John smile

#1132129 - 11/05/17 08:38 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Holy Mis-information!
Have you looked at a BMI Work Registration form lately? You can Google it for a look. It plainly States, Check here if no rights are granted by writer(s) to any Publisher. It is right below where the writer(s) put their information. In case there is no Publisher, all Pro Royalties go to the writer or writers as indicated on the WORK REGISTRATION FORM. You don't need a Publisher to collect royalties. You won't receive any royalties from a Pro anyway unless you have a huge hit on the Air and the song is with a Big Publisher.

Jody, I hate to say it but you are a plethora of mis-information when it comes to a lot of things in the Music Business.

Ray, I don't think you hate saying that.

To answer to your question: No, I haven't looked at their work registrations lately. That being said... As a former BMI writer/publisher, I was advised by my BMI rep, at the time, to register a publishing entity. However BMI treated me so poorly during my tenure there that I moved my catalog over to SESAC. So I'm going by first hand experience between two of the PROs that represent writers & publishers.

BTW - I've started a thread here ( http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1132101.html#Post1132101 ) please list all the mis-information that I've proposed about the music business at JPF. Please publicly out my plethora of ignorance so I can correct my lack of knowledge.

p.s. - I'd be out half my income if I didn't register my publishing. I don't own anyone else's publishing under my two publishing entities. And despite not having a huge hit on the air, or a song with a big publisher, I do have a worldwide publishing admin for all things outside the U.S. Oh, and based on first hand experience, digital distributors do want publishing names on all digital releases. Those pesky streaming services apparently want to know who to send publishing income to.

p.p.s. - John L Schick apparently needs a publishing name too.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1132132 - 11/05/17 10:28 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Indianapolis, IN USA
What Jody said.

SMH.

Ray, it's not 1987 anymore.

And frankly, for the record, selling forms to people here on a floppy that you admit "Sometime back I 'borrowed' a mechanical license form from Harry Fox" and rewrote is kind of desperate sounding. Do you really need Donna's $20.00 to send them to her? Have you ever heard of attaching them to an email? After all, you must have them in digital form already if you can put them on a floppy disk, and you registered here so I know you have email and obviously you have a working computer still, so why waste the money and effort to mail it on a disk that most computers made since early this century don't even use anymore without an add on drive. For that matter few devices even have drives for any media anymore outside of USB ports which are likely to be gone soon as well. And why would you want to charge Donna money for something that would only cost you a minute of your time to send her? After all, I know you understand free stuff being the longest tenured member here who has never tossed in a few bucks to help with the costs of this site, so why would you be a hypocrite with the friendly Donna Duchess, just to needlessly shake her down for a few bucks? Not very gentlemanly of you.

Folks, I would always defer to Jody and John here for current day issues concerning royalties since they both regularly license and sell music on all types of platforms around the world. It doesn't mean they are never wrong, all humans are sometimes, but they offer up what they know freely and without the shipping and handling fees. There was a time when I kept up with all of it, but the past few years I've let off that particular gas pedal until I need to know something, then I research and get the most up to date info from people who know, which includes John and Jody who deal with this stuff daily.

I can say that there was a time when Ray would have been a good resource as I recall a small publishing business I believe he was involved in once offered me publishing contracts on two of my songs I wrote when I was 13. Five Roses Publishing was the name and I found them in a book I would later write for called the "Songwriter's Market." My how 40 years have flown since I wrote those songs and sent them in years later when I came across that book, though I think it was the other guy I dealt with, I still have the correspondence and contracts somewhere in a box in storage. But I digress. Maybe it was a different Ray or a different "Five Roses" back then out of Georgia.

Ah, memories.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1132135 - 11/05/17 11:15 PM Re: Admin Service Needed? [Re: Donna Dutchess]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,883
Park City, UT, USA
Sorry Donna, about to go off topic here based on Brian's post.

All American PROs, including Harry Fox, SoundExchange, and Music Reports use online forms and/or spreadsheets to accept information. All my song registrations are done online at the various websites. Then I send an email to my publishing admin with all relevant information for all songs for them to do the non-U.S. registrations. Once the SESAC form is filled out I also send an email to SESAC asking for them to grab me an ISWC # for each song, as that is not automatic and they have to go to ASCAP in order to get it. Used to take a few weeks to get the ISWC, now it usually takes a couple of days. After that, I plug all that info into a master spreadsheet that I keep for all my creations. Putting in writer info, publishing info, IPI/CAE, SESAC #, ISWC #, ISRC #, and other relevant Metadata. Every service has different requirements for song related data, this happens to make it easier to copy and paste it around. The new thing I'm working with is RIN data as well.

Turns out that all the Streaming Services, as well as lot of licensors like to have all relevant data. ISRC, ISWC (depends on service), writer(s), writer splits (depends on service), publisher(s), pub splits (depends on service), catalog #s (depends on service), release dates, barcodes, etc. There's a lot of data needed these days. All of which is designed to make sure all interested parties get paid appropriately.

That's my current method for any new music I put out. If a co-writer is part of it, I let them know they need to do their registrations at their PRO, but I don't do it for them. Of course, if they're a SESAC co-writer, they have nothing to do as its taken care of when I register the material. My publishing admin does not collect globally for any of my co-writers, only me. But I do let them know where our tunes have generated income so they can keep an eye out for it on their own.

I also use a PDF version of a songwriter split sheet that I created. That way, my information is automatically filled out correctly. I send it to the co-writer(s) for them to plug their information in, they save it and send it back to me. Works like a charm, reduces paper waste, can be viewed/edited on a myriad of devices (phones, computers, iPads, etc) , and creates a timestamp record of when we created the song. Not that it would hold up in a court of law, as only a registration with the Library of Congress is eligible for that - to my knowledge [take that with a grain of salt as I'm spreading a lot of misinformation apparently]. But at least its additional information prior to the LoC submission.

BTW - I'm happy to give anyone a copy of my songwriter split sheet, sans my automatic info. Its thorough and allows for up to 6 writers on it. Also, I do have quite a few boilerplate type of contracts for various music business purposes in MS word format. I'm happy to pass those along as well, for free. That being said, I always recommend that one uses a lawyer for any contracts.

All of this can be done online without the need to buy a floppy drive or floppy disc and no need to spend money on a $20 file that Harry Fox and/or Music Reports would turn around and tell you to "use our website form." Why? Because it will go right into queue for their database.

A brief aside about tech in 2017: As Brian has stated about floppy discs, they haven't been in use on the Mac side of computing since 1998, that's what 20 years ago? I haven't used CDs in 5+ years, except in special cases of request - such as the most recent JPF award submissions. The only optical discs I currently use are BluRay's. I have 50gb discs that I use as additional hardcopy backups of finished projects. I imagine in the next couple of years, I'll have to transfer those to backup SSDs as who knows if even BluRay media will last very long in the market. But they do hold a lot of data which is great for high resolution audio files.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com

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