Who's Online Now
19 registered members (9ne, Everett Adams, Harriet Ames, Barry David Butler, Gavin Sinclair, couchgrouch, Calvin, Brian Austin Whitney, 5 invisible), and 207 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Tom Franz
Tom Franz
Northern California
Posts: 1,451
Joined: September 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Door Open Wide
by Gavin Sinclair. 10/18/17 10:05 AM
THANKS FOR ALL THE PRAYERS AND CONCERN
by Ricki E. Bellos. 10/18/17 09:48 AM
Only 332 days left until...
by Ricki E. Bellos. 10/18/17 09:41 AM
So She Tells Him
by DonnaMarilyn. 10/18/17 08:14 AM
I May Not Be The One For You
by Calvin. 10/18/17 04:09 AM
Underage Thinking
by couchgrouch. 10/17/17 08:24 PM
Soul Seasoned
by John Voorpostel. 10/17/17 01:26 PM
Financial prophecy
by John Voorpostel. 10/17/17 01:20 PM
Create Your Own Story
by Barry David Butler. 10/17/17 12:43 PM
H.R. 3945 - Small Claims For Creators
by Jody Whitesides. 10/17/17 12:19 PM
Broken Glass
by Marvin Adcock. 10/17/17 06:11 AM
Who's Going to Hold me When I cry?  Travis/ Mimmo
by DonnaMarilyn. 10/17/17 04:52 AM
'' I will never leave you''
by Dennis Wright. 10/16/17 10:22 PM
Soft whispers of melody
by Dave Rice. 10/15/17 09:13 AM
My First CD `This That and Other Things
by John Lawrence Schick. 10/15/17 08:06 AM
Bump in the Road
by Michael W. Brown. 10/15/17 02:41 AM
Silence
by lane1777. 10/14/17 02:53 PM
Between friends
by lane1777. 10/14/17 02:47 PM
The First Beer of the Rest of My Life
by couchgrouch. 10/14/17 02:40 PM
Springsteen on Broadway (A Review)
by Barry David Butler. 10/14/17 10:07 AM
I'll Take My Socks Off
by Gavin Sinclair. 10/13/17 05:44 PM
Delinquent Submissions From Nominees
by maccharles. 10/13/17 04:10 PM
Dying art of the song intro
by John Voorpostel. 10/13/17 10:56 AM
SOBER ENGINEER (A TRAIN SONG)
by Travis david. 10/13/17 07:45 AM
this microphone did you use ?
by sevenoak88. 10/13/17 04:42 AM
45
by Deej56. 10/13/17 01:42 AM
Love Goes
by Deej56. 10/13/17 12:14 AM
I'm A Train
by Barry David Butler. 10/12/17 04:17 PM
Making Great Demos with BIAB
by Michael Zaneski. 10/12/17 01:37 PM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,162
Kevin Emmrich 10,529
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Travis david 10,234
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,744
Mike Dunbar 8,574
glynda 8,560
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,804
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,204
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,428
Joe Wrabek 6,400
Dave Rice 6,147
ben willis 6,065
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,718
Linda Sings 5,601
niteshift 5,323
Vicarn 5,213
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,605
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,342
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
Neil Cotton 4,075
nightengale 3,964
TamsNumber4 3,962
Roy Cooper 3,890
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,759
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
beechnut79 3,219
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
E Swartz 2,881
Harriet Ames 2,868
PopTodd 2,864
Nigel Quin 2,801
MidniteBob 2,645
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Nelson 2,392
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,241
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,151
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Ray Thyer 1,929
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,768
floyd jane 1,713
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,592
Cal 1,574
Rick Heenan 1,560
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,451
RogerS 1,445
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,427
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
Stan Simons 1,402
in2piano 1,399
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,300
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
GocartMoz 1,261
Janice & Bud 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
IdeaGuy 1,209
Glen King 1,209
PeteG 1,195
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
summeoyo 1,083
Gerry 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
joro 1,045
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
IronKnee 894
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
lane1777 885
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
90 dB 745
tbryson 737
Andy K 733
Andy Kemp 732
Jackie444 720
ant 709
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
9ne 588
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
Pat Hardy 577
qbaum 570
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
Irwin 524
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
Moosesong 495
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
R&M 444
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 398
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
Cecilee 376
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 352
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
pammie 279
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#1130265 - 08/30/17 12:57 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Uh, John,
If you remember, you probably don't, Trump funded his own campaign so he wouldn't owe anything to anybody. Corporate Welfare? Musta not worked out too well as many Corporations just left the country. There a lot of things the Liberal News Media doesn't report because all the F'***ups they participated in were glaring failures. Why cut your own throat if you don't have to.
If all the good programs some like were such successes we wouldn't have a 20 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt. Obama sit around with his finger up his *ss and his mind in neutral waiting for good things to happen.

Maybe you have heard about the Goose that laid the Golden Egg. The Automobile Unions tried to kill the goose and wrote themselves big pay raises until the money ran out. The Auto companies just cut the quality of the auto and raised the prices and wanted to sell you a new car as soon as the Warrenty ran out. That's about as long as a car would last.

But, along came the Japanese and started making tough long lasting cars. Hell people couldn't believe it! You mean a car will last 10 or 20 years! So today what do you see most of on the roads?

Food stamps? Obama was the Food Stamp President, wasn't he? I hear all the illegals are no longer signing up for Food Stamps because they are afraid they going to be deported. There is only so much money in the system John. That means you have to work to get anywhere.

And all those voters John, they could care less what happens on Wall Street. Many of them are still way behind with their economic situation. But another Big Spending Bill will solve that, eh, John? Just like the last ones.


Ray E. Strode
#1130268 - 08/30/17 03:46 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 166
Gavin Sinclair Online content
Serious Contributor
Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
Serious Contributor

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 166
Conover, North Carolina, USA
John, Ray has consumed prodigious amounts of the Kool-Aid and you are standing in the way.

#1130285 - 08/31/17 09:44 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 577
Pat Hardy Offline
Top 500 Poster
Pat Hardy  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 577
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Whazzat?,
We have never had a President like Donald Trump? Well I guess you don't remember Harry Truman. Better be nice to
The Donald or he is going to take away your Rubber Ducky! Many of those civilians working in the Federal Government now are looking at Pink Slips in the near future. But we do need fruit and vegetable pickers in the fields. Alford E. Newman say, "What, me worry.

Uh, Gee sorry Pat, Trumps life has been mostly an open book. The Big Cheese at the Washington Post,
Bob Woodward said several months ago he was going to do a through Investigation of Donald Trump and put 18 people on it.

So far it has been a Dud. Gosh it is common practice for Presidential Candidates to meet with Foreign Leaders even before the Election. President Eisenhower sent his Vice President, Richard Nixon on missions to meet foreign leaders. Today the liberals are trying to sell is as Collusion. But Pat, you do have Nancy Pelosi ! Hey, good luck!


Collusion is not illegal, but if it involves aiding and abetting espionage to corrupt democracy, or colluding with Russian oligarchs to launder money, that's another story. As for evidence of this, there's a lot of smoke pointing at that direction, but, whether the cloud is smoke, or vapor, we'll just have to wait to see where Mueller's investigation leads. Not certain about collusion with Russians to thwart the election, but I do believe they have evidence of Trump either doing money laundering himself, or aiding and abbetting Russians doing it, or both. Trump blatantly lied when he exclaimed during the campaign "I made no contact with Russia" when, in fact, we have a signed letter of intent of building a Trump Tower in Moscow (and applying for a loan with VTB bank -- Russian bank, noting that 61% of that bank's shares are owned by Putin ) and this was going on about the time of the third debate.

Okay, you got me with Pelosi, but most dems I know want some new blood. Personally, I'm liking Kamala Harris more and more.

First thing I want to say, Ray, is that if you still have a typewriter, "just in case", well, despite your politics, I have to like a guy that keeps a typewriter "just in case", that would be me, as well. I'm a closet Luddite at heart ( but don't take away my cell phone ).

Now then, please don't compare Truman to Trump.

Trump went to Texas the other day, and when the body count was about 20 lost souls, long before Trump even mentioned them ( the next day, on teleprompter ) what did Trump talk about? Crowd size. This is a president whose gut reaction is about crowd size, and no mention of the deaths and no mention of the brave first responders, etc, his gut reaction is "crowd size". Similarly, when confronted about what the Khan family said about him at the convention, any concerned right thinking person's first instinct would have been to thank them for their sacrifice ( they lost a son in the war ), so what was Trump's gut reaction when asked about their comments about him at the convention" Trump's gut reaction was to criticize that their religion was responsible for her being quiet during her Husband's speech.

I"m sorry, Ray, these types of things are the mark of a little man. And Trump most definitely is a little man. Little men are rarely capable of doing big things. Oh, they can do things that will get noticed, like slap names on buildings or do reality TV, but they never do great things.

I could fill a book with his flaws, but if your reaction is " well every one has flaws" my answer is this: Hey, I like Archie Bunker, but an Archie Bunker who inherited a lot of money and slapped his names on a lot of buildings is still Archie Bunker, and I would shoot pool, have a beer, with Archie, but as for who should be president, I want a man who is bigger, better, greater, nobler, than me for that Job, and I can say categorically that Trump is not a bigger , better, greater and more noble than me, and if I were running for president, I would not vote me, nor would any sensible person.

Trump not only is not "presidential" he's not even acting professional. But that's just it, he's had a ton of money since day one, he's never had to apply for a job, and deal with bosses who might have whipped him into shape. It's obvious that his early bout with a military styled school was all for naught, and the reason is that Trump new all along that he was going to start out life rich and had no incentive to modify his behavior.

If I acted like Trump in the real world, I wouldn't have a job for very long. Trump has never had to apply for a job, he's never been subject to many life's situations that force people to park their egos and grow.

I don't even buy the premise that because he's rich he will therefore be able to "get things done".

He's been the boss, the guy holding the purse strings, and in his former world he would snap his fingers and people would jump. He lacked the wisdom to understand that the Job of president will not afford him that luxury, he thought it would be just as easy as it was to get things done as he was able to in his businesses. If he had possessed the wisdom to understand that aspect of the presidency, he would never have made such stupid statements as "only I can fix it"

Again, the complete list of his shortcomings could easily fill a book, and that is the point. Everyone has shortcomings, it's just that I want a president whose shortcomings would only fill a paragraph or two, not an entire book.

Truman had a plaque on his desk, it said " The Buck Stops Here".

With Trump, the buck stops over there, or anywhere but "here".











Last edited by Pat Hardy; 08/31/17 10:36 AM.
#1130286 - 08/31/17 09:49 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
John Voorpostel Offline
Top 10 Poster
John Voorpostel  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
Gavin this should not get personal....I too am frustrated by Ray's "selective thinking" but fully support his right to his opinion. The ONLY reason I jumped into this conversation was to, once again, challenge some of his "alternative facts"

And Ray, I think there are two fundamental flaws in your argument (well besides the "alternative facts").

1) You assume everyone is equally capable, everyone faces the same challenges, everyone is equally healthy etc so that everyone is equally capable of looking after themselves. Not everyone's arc of life has unfolded like yours and\or mine. and

2) You fail to recognize that lots of very well off people and corporations get federal money and entitlements and tax concessions they actually lobby hard for...yet you only beef about monies going to help the poor because "they take advantage of the system"







If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130290 - 08/31/17 10:47 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
John, I said, think I said, that all Entitlements, Welfare Programs, etc. belong in the States where the people in each state can Fund them, and decide what is needed. Now I can give you 20 Trillion reasons why I say that. True, some people need help. I have no problem with that. Clear?

Some time ago the big thinkers thought they had a better plan. Would be nice if it worked but the results are anything but.
When the Pilgrims came to the New World they had to work, there was no Welfare system in place for them to fall back on. Again, yes from time to time people need some help. I have no problem with that. No one does but when a program was put in place to help it never ended and has now run up a 20 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt with no end in sight. The people finally had enough of the Welfare State, Hillary's World, and rejected it last election. The Swamp is deep and wide, and draining it will have to have people with guts enough to take it on or go down the same road Rome went.

The National Debt is on the docket to be raised again. Again, a Glaring Failure of the Liberal Left. And it appears the Liberal Left would rather destroy the country than do any repairs. The plan seems to be Kick the can down the road and Rome is now in sight. Trump sees this. But will the people do the hard work or pass the Buck????


Ray E. Strode
#1130291 - 08/31/17 11:20 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
John,
You are frustrated because all the Social Programs that you and many others bought into are going to Hell in a Hand Basket.
The ever rising Premiums for Obama Care is one Example. Can't remember exactly but I seem to remember The Annointed One said you would save about $2500 on your Preimums. They are going thru the roof even with the government subsidies sent by the government, Tax Payers, to the Health Insurers. And remember John, I don't make the News, I just report the News!


Ray E. Strode
#1130293 - 08/31/17 12:26 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,489
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,489
PA
There’s no easy answer… no doubt the entitlement programs create a degree of dependence and abuse. Distinguishing between the abuse and the truly needed is as difficult as distinguishing between honesty and dishonesty in our society (impossible task). How many more people would fend for themselves without the safety net can’t be determined without making the truly needy suffer (that’s the catch). But the Government should be careful in what kind of society it’s creating.

Just observations, no solutions. Though making recipients of entitlements do a couple days of community service would place them in the mainstream and give them incentive and possibly skills to move ahead. And would set precedence that there’s no such thing as free rides.

John smile

#1130294 - 08/31/17 12:38 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
John Voorpostel Offline
Top 10 Poster
John Voorpostel  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
Lots to unpack there Ray...

1) To transfer all such programs to individual states is problematic because not all states are as equally endowed with resources, businesses, populations, infrastructure conditions, experiences, etc---so that there is no way all US citizens would be treated equally. You just end up with, from a national perspective, patchwork solutions and large economic disparities between them. AND as I said, you simply end up with people who WANT to rig the system moving to states with the best programs, or worse, and this happens, you give the poor and transients one way bus tickets and voila, problem gone. A national program and mandate sets minimum standards for every US citizen

2) When the pilgrims came, you had a very basic agrarian economy and no cities with a very diverse and specialized labour\talent pool-two very fundamentally different states of existence.

3) I think I get it now Ray...even Republicans are part of the Liberal Left to you...I can think of no other reason why you now call a Republican controlled House, Senate AND Presidency who are now responsible for raising the debt ceiling ..AND we have proven to you time and again that debt was run up by Democrats and Repblicans alike.

4) Health care is a basic human right. To not be bankrupted by medical costs because you happen to be unlucky\unfortunate is also an important right. That Obamacare was badly implemented is a result of both parties bickering destructively over the plan. You would have been far better off had both parties worked together to do it right.

This all may not be news that I'm reporting, but it too is reality.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130296 - 08/31/17 01:18 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Um, yes,
True you can't fix in 8 or 12 years what the country has been 100 years getting into this mess. It may have been a even bigger mess for the Pilgrims, no? Most people can take care of themselves and of course have to to pay taxes for those that need some assistance. But some, many maybe learn nothing and continue on the same path.

Health care is a basic right? That means you/they can stick their hand in my pocket and take what they want. I don't mind helping but I resist stealing. But I say, you can have anything you want, as long as you pay for it. No, basic health care isn't a right but we have approved spending programs to help. And we have the 20 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt to prove it!

I was once watching a Nature Program about a pair of Ospreys (Large Birds of Prey) raising their young. The nest was way up high in a tree. When the young were fully grown the Adult Birds left the nest. The young either had to fly or die.

Excuse me. Medicare, Medicaid, Obama Care, etc. The people would have been better off leaving things the way they were.
People are always trying to beat the system. Me too.


Ray E. Strode
#1130302 - 08/31/17 02:13 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
John Voorpostel Offline
Top 10 Poster
John Voorpostel  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
Ray you miss the entire point of a universal health care system. It exist so that if YOU get sick, YOU are not bankrupt.

Your essential problem is that you want no part of any plan whereby your money subsidizes someone else.

But that means that as you age and become more susceptible to illness, that you don't end up paying exorbitant premiums or worse, can't get insurance.

So nothing wrong at all taking that approach. It is definitely not stealing your money. It protects YOU from financial disaster just like any other form of insurance.

And Ospreys??? Well Sea Turtles lay eggs and leave. Their young have no parenting at all. Many wild "pack\pride" animals lose their young when a new alpha male takes over and kills them. Did you ever see the one where the wild stallion killed the colts? Something about instinct destroying all but their own genetic line. Some packs, like wolves, only allow their alpha pair to breed. Harp seals simply leave their young behind to fend for themselves..and many of them get eaten by predators. Panda Bears generally have two cubs, but mom instinctively focuses on only the stronger one and lets to weaker one die. Now...what is your point? Is it to leave your kids to sink or swim? Is to to not care about your neighbour? Please enlighten me.


AND YES YES. People are always looking to beat the system. You can look at GM, Ford, Boeing, Walmart, General Electric, Intel, Big Pharma, etc etc etc.who get scads of federal handouts...and of course those pesky welfare cheats who seem to be the only ones vilified for doing it. No one seems to care when Boeing takes lots of handouts just before closing a plant and lays off their work force...wonder why that is?

AND YES YES YES, that pesky 20 trillion dollar is growing...as that Paragon of the Liberal Left Trump and his Liberal Bigly Lefter Republican controlled House and Senate raise the ceiling



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130303 - 08/31/17 04:10 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Aw, Yes John,
I understand the Universal Health Care Plan all too well. Called the Single Payer Plan. Everybody gets Health Care but nobody pays. That Plan? I under stood it when Lyndon Johnson Got Medicare passed. Senator Diane Fienstien, Senator from California of all places told the people of California she wasn't on board with the idea. But some people think it will work. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Socalisim has been tried in the Old Soviet Union, Greece Porto Rico, Venezuela, France, etc, etc, etc.

John, several years ago there were some Hospitals in Texas that had to close their doors. It seems only the illegals were using the services and of course nobody was paying. Not sure but probably some convoluted Law that requires a Hospital to serve everybody. A couple of songs I invite you to Google and listen to. CASH ON THE BARREL HEAD by The Louvin Brothers and PHILADELPHIA LAWYER by Maddox Brothers and Rose. I of course guess my posts will go in one ear and out the other but some people never learn, No?


Ray E. Strode
#1130308 - 08/31/17 06:15 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
John Voorpostel Offline
Top 10 Poster
John Voorpostel  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
If you understand universal health care programs, then how can you bash it?

Let's just focus on outcomes


We'll let Business Insider take the first crack at telling you how the world ranks

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/the-16-countries-with-the-worlds-best-healthcare-systems-2017-1/

Highlights--Canada at #16 with a fully government funded system, and there is that pesky Netherlands again taking the #5 spot.
Unsurprisingly, the USA does not make the cut,,,but it does say the Canadians are heading south for specialist treatment...



http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...ns-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

Maybe you like this one better. It is a ranking by the World Health Organization. It actually ranks Canada 30th. Now that is awesome if you want to bash our universal health care system...until you see the USA is ranked at 37th, and a lot of countries with universal health care or versions of "Obamacare" rank very highly...and that pesky bastion of Liberal thinking Netherlands is 17th



http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

Then there is this gem of a report,,,again based on WHO data.

It ranks the top 11 countries and the US comes in at, wait for it, 11th (man the pesky Liberal Netherlands is actually number 3 here---what is it about these liberal countries that seems to get it right????Just asking!!!) They note that the US is last DESPITE spending way more than other countries. Of course that is unsurprising since the health care sector in the US is a very profitable business. In fairness, it has some good things to say about the US system, but then gets real as well with the negatives.


So the conclusion....d'ya think the issue is not the liberal thinking and universal health care and fully funded health care----but in how things are actually implemented? Wait, does that harken back to what I said about the Republicans and Democrats not being able to work together to get things done right???







If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130310 - 09/01/17 05:28 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 577
Pat Hardy Offline
Top 500 Poster
Pat Hardy  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 577
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Aw, Yes John,
I understand the Universal Health Care Plan all too well. Called the Single Payer Plan. Everybody gets Health Care but nobody pays. That Plan? I under stood it when Lyndon Johnson Got Medicare passed. Senator Diane Fienstien, Senator from California of all places told the people of California she wasn't on board with the idea. But some people think it will work. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Socalisim has been tried in the Old Soviet Union, Greece Porto Rico, Venezuela, France, etc, etc, etc.

John, several years ago there were some Hospitals in Texas that had to close their doors. It seems only the illegals were using the services and of course nobody was paying. Not sure but probably some convoluted Law that requires a Hospital to serve everybody. A couple of songs I invite you to Google and listen to. CASH ON THE BARREL HEAD by The Louvin Brothers and PHILADELPHIA LAWYER by Maddox Brothers and Rose. I of course guess my posts will go in one ear and out the other but some people never learn, No?


I'm on medicare and it works beautifully. I know many people on medicare and I do not know anyone who would trade it for anything be proposed by republicans. No one is saying health care is free for everyone, so please stop spreading this lie. Single Payer system will be funded by taxes, taxes paid by ability to pay, that is fair and just. Medicare for everyone would work just as well -- In the developed countries that have universal health care, the cost per capita is roughly half of what US pays and not one of them became a totalitarian state .

I've talked to many people from Canada, France, Sweden, Norway, etc, over the years, and I always am curious for their answer to the following question: "Would you trade your country's health care system for that of the US?" So far, I have yet to hear one person from any of these countries that said yes, they all said NO, loud and clear. Usually I get a reaction like "you got to be kidding me? " etc.

Here is the fundamental concept you fail to grasp. Health care is paid for one way or the other, no matter the system. But, to explain a complicated subject in simple terms, with medicare for all, existing flow of funds that are already being spent anyway would just be redirected, and the only difference is that you won't have a middleman taking a huge chunk of the change, the insurance company costs are not part of the cost structure. And, it's a public "option", you can opt out, if you want, just as you are free to send your kids to private schools if you want and can afford it ( I'm against vouchers ).

You keep saying "it's been tried before" citing USSR, which is the wrong country. Cite Canada, France, Norway, etc if you are going to utter "it's been tried before" otherwise you
are being disingenuous. USSR failed because it's a totalitarian police state which enslaved it's citizens, a fact having nothing to do with the UHC systems implemented in the many developed countries whose health care systems, overall, surpass ours. In these countries,

I've heard the "Uh oh, universal health care is going to turn the USA into a sea of goose-stepping comrades singing the Russian National Anthem" , and , it's complete and total bullcrap." I'll make a deal with you, quit repeating this stupid and wrong idea and I will agree not to accuse republicans of trying to convert the USA into a fascist/nationalist/white supremacist state.

Deal?

But, as for free market health care, there is not even one country with a free market system that gives access to all of its citizens. The U.S. stands almost entirely alone among developed nations that lack universal health care.

The hospitals being strained along the Texas border, the vast majority of cases are injuries occurring will trying to cross the border, dehydration, broken bones falling from fences, that sort of thing.

But that argument is also a red herring, that particular problem is a border control problem, and has nothing to do with UHC how it is run in the countries that implement it successfully.





Last edited by Pat Hardy; 09/01/17 05:33 AM.
#1130311 - 09/01/17 07:24 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,294
Everett Adams Online content
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,294
,NL Canada
In Canada, health care is a provincial responsibility, they run the system by minimum standards set by the Feds, the Feds pay a percentage of the health cost care to each province, based on population I believe. The welfare system is again a provincial responsibility, no help from the Feds at all. Ray may have it right that each state should have control over welfare and health care. They are closer to what is happening and can better control abuse.

Having said that, I believe that health care should not be a profit oriented business as it is in the US. Police and fire protection is paid by government for the benefit of all, so should health care. The rich will always find a way to have better care and everything else that the average citizen can't have. But most of the rich got their wealth off the backs of the working poor, so they should be happy to keep them healthy and working for them. As it is, companies pay a fair dollar in health care insurance for their employees, those insurance companies are profit oriented, as are Doctors and hospitals. Your governments could run a better system at half the cost of your profit oriented systems with everyone having good coverage and not having to wonder how they can pay for it.

#1130312 - 09/01/17 09:38 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
John,
We do have Universal Health here in the U.S. We just don't have Universal Pay for it. The peasants voted for the OPM Pay System, Other Peoples Money. However OPM got tired of being gouged for every F**kup spending plan and OPM left the country. Now the peasants have to figure out some other way to fund their welfare. "Obama Care was such a great plan. All the young people would sign up and pay into the system and it would work. However the people that wrote the Bill also included an Employer Mandate that employers with enough employees would supply the Health Plan. Most small employers couldn't afford to pay for health insurance so they cut their employees so they could stay in business. We've been thru all this before John. but you and others still think it will work. Keep believing John. Hell, I believe in the Tooth Fairy!


Ray E. Strode
#1130313 - 09/01/17 10:06 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
John Voorpostel Offline
Top 10 Poster
John Voorpostel  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
So Ray you agree the real problem is in implementation. I actually think we're making some headway

And "the peasants" as you so derisively call the US voter, only votes for their representatives. It is the House and Senate that crafted and voted on the legislation

Furthermore, "the peasants" have no influence compared to Big Insurance, Big Pharma, Big Medicine etc who are the real powers behind the health care business throne because their reward is Big Money.

And lastly, why is it that it works in many other places BUT NOT in the USA??? Are other countries smarter, better organized, more caring about the health of ALL its citizens???



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130314 - 09/01/17 11:15 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 856
Martin Lide Online content
Top 500 Poster
Martin Lide  Online Content
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 856
Houston, Texas
Roy

In a casual conversation we would agree on a great deal. You are conservative as am I and everything that you write is laced with the self reliance of the individual. You buttress your arguments with hard realities and facts taught in the school of hard knocks. But there is a fact that I think that you're missing.

You cant leave people in the street to die. Trump said that over and over again in the campaign.

I dont know if Marie Antoinette ever actually said.. " let them eat cake" but her head was removed because that was her perceived attitude.

Another fact is that western civ has been moving towards collectivism for a couple centuries. Realization of that trend is necessary for any viable solutions. The trend is here to stay if and until the economy collapses under its weight.

To all of your liberal detractors. Money is based on work product and some kind of value. A healthcare system where people take way more than they give will drain and collapse the treasury. Money is not just an abstract idea.

And...Denmark,Switzerland,Finland,Iceland are tiny countries that can do things that the United States cant copy. Our situation is not theirs.

Im sitting in Bham Ala waiting to go home to Houston. The feds are spending a fortune on my home town. Im glad that they are but cant help but wonder how long a govt 20 tril in debt and still borrowing every year...can keep it up.

And how bad will things get if and when the treasury finally fails?

It feels like a house of cards in a building breeze.

The preceding pontification and musings are worth what you paid for them.

#1130315 - 09/01/17 11:25 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Um Sure John,
In the 1920's things were going real good so people borrowed small sums of money and invested it in the Stock Market expecting to make a killing and wind up on Easy Street. However the Stock Market Crashed and people were back to square one, again. move forward a few years and the big thinkers in Congress relaxed the banking rules so anybody and everybody could get a Mortgage. Hell I was dumb John, the News Media didn't report it but I heard where you could get a Mortgage and only pay the interest on the loan. Silly me, now how I asked would you ever pay it off on that plan? Well John the Ship hit the Sand and Mortgages were flying everywhere and being for closed on. So moving right along, the same people that dreamed up that fantastic mortgage plan applied the same principle to health care! So now Health Premiums are going thru the roof but those planners and movers are dragging their feet, expecting the Calvery to come over the hill just in time to save them.
Progress you say? The Calvery has been decimated John. The money went for Health Care. A lot of repairs to do in the country John. If the U.S goes broke, guess what happens to Canada, and the rest of the world.


Ray E. Strode
#1130335 - 09/01/17 05:05 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
John Voorpostel Offline
Top 10 Poster
John Voorpostel  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,350
Now you're rambling Ray. Happy to listen if you want to speak to the point


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130382 - 09/03/17 01:35 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 856
Martin Lide Online content
Top 500 Poster
Martin Lide  Online Content
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 856
Houston, Texas
oh well.

#1130383 - 09/03/17 01:49 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,204
Brian Austin Whitney Online content
Brian Austin Whitney  Online Content


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,204
Indianapolis, IN USA
I haven't read all the back and forth because it appears to just be the same thoughtless pablum we find on social media.

Bernie Sanders nearly won the Dem nomination and his policies are straight up communism posing as socialism. We see how well that worked for the richest country in South America where people had to resort to breaking into the zoo to eat the animals. Socialism/Communism always fails and always brings authoritarianism to drive the remnants completely into the ground. All the violence I have seen in the various "protests" have been initiated entirely by the left. The supposed Nazi's are, in many cases, plants by our lovely US Govt Bureaucracies and people like David Duke are paid by the left to provide the straw man which they use to justify violence against innocents. The left is the entity that is killing free speech. The left is the side breaking immigration laws, picking and choosing whatever laws they want to ignore which is unAmerican and unjust. If they want to change laws, do it the right way and stop teaching our youth that lawlessness is totally okay if you simply disagree with them. Until the left MSM finally acknowledged this week that Antifa and the militarized left are the real aggressors in these clashes, they were actually not only endorsing Antifa thugs, but telling them it was okay and just to use violence against anyone you deem a Nazi, which in their case is anyone who doesn't toe the exact line they do on all issues. We see them regularly tar and feather anyone on the right as well as Libertarians with the racist and Nazi paintbrush. Of course it got so out of control that in Boston when only a tiny number of mostly prayer group types showed up on the right and thousands showed up on the left dressed like ISIS with weapons, black clothing and masks, helmets and bats, clubs, sticks, mace, bear spray, molotov cocktails, bricks, urine and feces to throw on police and because they could find obvious targets in multiple cases they randomly picked out people who either we not involved on any side or even people on their own side and beat and terrorized them instead. That finally caused the left media to acknowledge and call out the Antifa thugs. It's ironic that as usual the ad hominem attacks by the left usually turn out to be self described actions where they were the fascists, the thugs, the terrorists, the racists, the hatemongers, the free speech killers, the true evil entity.

If you do much research into the many examples of false flag attacks in the US's history, and check out the large number of researches who have thoroughly examined the very bizarre facts in the Car attack in Charlottesville which saw paid Soros actors playing protesters on BOTH sides and a great deal of questions about what really happened once you see all the footage from all sources it's clear it all wasn't what it seemed. We know that the government has been caught regularly brainwashing mentally ill people to commit crimes (it happened again recently in OK City, do a search for details on that atrocity for an example of pure evil done by our government so they could claim a victory unraveling a terrorist attack. In my view the USA were the true terrorists in that particular case. The lack of honest reporting in Charlottesville, combined with Soros money and influence and the staged and intentionally absent police who funneled the legal protesters who had a permit to be there into the armed rabid illegal protesters who should all have been arrested rather than let loose to beat and attack the people legally exercising the free speech rights. There was so much "wrong" at that event from the media, the police, the politicians, the paid protesters, and the very odd and questionable facts surrounding the car attack and it's mentally ill driver (or perhaps a false flag driver, I am really no longer sure about any of it) that it is hard explain it all without some level of conspiracy and fraud throughout.

The bottom line goal seems to be to keep people thinking there's this big divide between two halves of the country when at worst it is a small handful of nutcases, misinformed miscreants and paid thugs causing most of the grief. In truth, people get along amazingly well on all sides of all issues daily and the media defrauds us all daily of the truth.

I was against Trump but still am glad his win prevented a much worse evil from ascending to power to completely destroy what fading freedoms we have left. Both parties are morally and ethically bankrupt (and the Libertarian party is sadly no better) and now we have internet monopolies like Google/YouTube and Facebook and Twitter all aligning themselves with the hard left and racing to censor anyone who dare have a different view on any given topic. We've reached the point of "wrongthink" being grounds for elimination and complete destruction by the media, social media, the Internet gatekeepers and both parties. Meanwhile good people spend their time spewing talking points and not actually talking to their neighbors or even life long friends who have dared to think differently from the oppressive approved universal opinions espoused by those in control of everything.

We're all being played folks... and have been for many decades. Our government is evil, not because of a party or leader, but because of the ever growing collective of power uniting major corporations with the government bureaucrats who actually run everything are are not elected nor can or will they ever be fired (unless they step out of line).

All that to say, enough of this back and forth. It's all part of the planned agenda and they must be cheering from the wings each time google crawls our site.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


Page 2 of 2 1 2

Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
sravy, NielsA, sevenoak88, ClaytonBlas1, Mella
20951 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics117,019
Posts1,101,957
Members20,951
Average Posts Daily24
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"Never accept no as an answer from someone not empowered to say yes in the first place." –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
Mary Jo (49)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0