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#1129849 - 08/14/17 08:22 AM How close are we  
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Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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,NL Canada
How close are we to nuclear war? One mistake, one miscalculation on someone's part could be the start of the next big war. When you get two leaders of countries possessing nuclear weapons, acting like two prize fighters trying to drum up interest in an up coming boxing match, anything can happen. Neither leader wants to back down because of their egos, their pride. One little spark can cause a forest fire, one snide remark can start a fight, one little fight can escalate into a riot, one riot can become a war. Power can corrupt, absolute power can corrupt absolutely.

#1129852 - 08/14/17 08:55 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Barry David Butler Online content
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Barry David Butler  Online Content
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More about egos and a miscalculation.
In 24 hours Seoul with all it's Millions and Beautiful Skyscrapers would be toast. Millions could die and that's just from regular old fashion Artillery Shells.

WHY hasn't the South Moved their Capital 200 miles south in the past 50 years...Gotta wonder?

#1129895 - 08/15/17 09:00 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Nigel Quin Offline
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It's just a ploy by world leaders to shift the focus from the fact they they are not doing any meaningful or sensible work. However if there is a nuclear war and we all die a horrible death I'll take it back, posthumously of course wink

#1129908 - 08/15/17 02:17 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Nigel Quin]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


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Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by Nigel Quin
It's just a ploy by world leaders to shift the focus from the fact they they are not doing any meaningful or sensible work. However if there is a nuclear war and we all die a horrible death I'll take it back, posthumously of course wink


I agree, when the nuke sabers rattle, watch what the other hands are doing around the world. That's where the real trouble is.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
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jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1130100 - 08/23/17 09:20 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Actually not very much at all from one country. Mutually assured destruction actually is a pretty huge deterrent. So it is tremendously doubtful that one country is going to go launching attacks on each other. On that front you have much more to fear from cyber warfare, bringing down electronic grids, etc. Loud mouth bluster is pretty normal from countries and if you go back through history for the past 60 years, rarely has a day gone by we were NOT "One miscalculation from total destruction." That's pretty much nonsense.

Now, the real danger are small nuclear, chemical or biological attacks from a religion or philosophy that is determined to wipe out another ideology or who teaches that the only way to ensure heaven is to destroy those that do not believe like them. And when it is ingrained that the person MUST sacrifice themselves, that is something you cannot totally stop. Countries that hold territory, have populations, can be predicted. Insane individuals cannot. As we see almost daily actual terrorism attacks, not threats, that is where the real threat comes. Individuals who have nothing and are willing to die for their beliefs are impossible to stop completely. All you can hope for is someone gets them first. There is no reasoning, no negotiation, no explanations. You either fight back, keep them from killing you, or die. There is not a third option.

MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 08/23/17 09:21 AM.
#1130101 - 08/23/17 10:23 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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cochise, az, usa
An accurate gauge of history is entertainment. Look at the movies even comics from fifty or sixty years ago. Them, Godzilla and a bunch of other creature flix were born from atomic fear. That's also how The Hulk was created. Nothing ever came of it. There are shows from the 70s that mention global cooling. Nothing. Many blues songs from the 20s and 30s warn of crazy weather such as Charley Patton's High Water.

NK is led by a nut but Trump stared him down. Some culture's view suicide as honorable. If THEY get nukes...time to pray.

Ps the US media is dead. Their motive now is to whip the masses into hysteria and enjoy the profits of their ratings.
If they tell you, "these aren't the droids you're looking for", are you going to stare at your tv with a blank face and repeat, "these aren't the droids I'm looking for..."?


I have to get back to CNN....Wolf Blitzer is comparing Trump to Caligula.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 08/23/17 10:30 AM.
#1130103 - 08/23/17 10:27 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Well,
Lemmee see here. With all the things, objects such as the Periamids, Spinx, Stone Hinge to name a few as well as any number of unexplained objects all over the earth it is probably there was a advanced civilazition long ago that vanished by some means. Maybe a Nuclear war, who knows. The "Little Fruitcake" over there in North Korea thinks he has a great
advantage over civilized people. Others thought that too. Too bad.


Ray E. Strode
#1130109 - 08/23/17 03:40 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Rick Heenan Online content
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Ray, I believe the correct spelling of spinx is sphinx. It was built by sphincters whom I'm pretty sure were from Uranus.

#1130110 - 08/23/17 04:06 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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PA
Sphinx is correct. I just finished a track titled "Sphinx".

John smile

#1130111 - 08/23/17 04:54 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Feb 2005
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Dave Rice Offline
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Dave Rice  Offline
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Texas
Rick:

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I read your post. When the annual awards are passed around in Hollywood, Nashville or New York City... I hope one of the Celebrities will have paid your for those clever lines. To me, this comes close to being the funniest thing I've read here at JPF. You have certainly been nominated for the Dave Rice Award, my friend. Thanks for that tremendous display of levity. I needed that very much. ----Dave

#1130114 - 08/23/17 07:44 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Vicarn Offline
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Vicarn  Offline
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Nigel has it all summed up imo.
Why would a leader of a platoon threaten an army?
His platoon now think he's great.

But has he played his best card to early?


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.
http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold
#1130115 - 08/23/17 07:46 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Vicarn Offline
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Vicarn  Offline
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UK
Oh! And I think Ray knows how to spell.


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.
http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold
#1130117 - 08/23/17 08:22 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well Dammit,
My Computer doesn't know how to spell. Would I lie to you? It used to be my Typewriter couldn't know how to spell either. I still have a typewriter, just in case.


Ray E. Strode
#1130119 - 08/23/17 09:23 PM Re: How close are we [Re: couchgrouch]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


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Indianapolis, IN USA
Originally Posted by couchgrouch



I have to get back to CNN....Wolf Blitzer is comparing Trump to Caligula.


ROFL....


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1130120 - 08/24/17 01:27 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Sep 2011
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Pat Hardy  Offline
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Actually not very much at all from one country. Mutually assured destruction actually is a pretty huge deterrent. So it is tremendously doubtful that one country is going to go launching attacks on each other. On that front you have much more to fear from cyber warfare, bringing down electronic grids, etc. Loud mouth bluster is pretty normal from countries and if you go back through history for the past 60 years, rarely has a day gone by we were NOT "One miscalculation from total destruction." That's pretty much nonsense.

Now, the real danger are small nuclear, chemical or biological attacks from a religion or philosophy that is determined to wipe out another ideology or who teaches that the only way to ensure heaven is to destroy those that do not believe like them. And when it is ingrained that the person MUST sacrifice themselves, that is something you cannot totally stop. Countries that hold territory, have populations, can be predicted. Insane individuals cannot. As we see almost daily actual terrorism attacks, not threats, that is where the real threat comes. Individuals who have nothing and are willing to die for their beliefs are impossible to stop completely. All you can hope for is someone gets them first. There is no reasoning, no negotiation, no explanations. You either fight back, keep them from killing you, or die. There is not a third option.

MAB



The problem with your premise is that America has never known a president like Trump. Remember, he's the only leader in our history who asked, three separate times in one interview, "If we have nukes, why can't we use them?", for all others, the answer to the question is a no-brainer. The concept of MAD is beyond the grasp of this president. So far in Trump's presidency, our nation has yet to have a crisis situation ( like the Cuban Missile Crisis, or 9/11, etc ) and we have yet to learn just how a man of Trump's immense lack of character, intellectual depth, world social and political dynamics, sense of history, culture and wisdom will be able to cope and deal with it, so let's all pray to God we don't have to find out.

We have it on good authority that he walks the halls of the white house shouting at cable news TV, which is where most of his knowledge of current affairs comes, which is on TV screens spread throughout the house. This is a man who trusts the egregious headlines of the National Enquirer over that of his security staff, a man who once asked, on national TV, "Why didn't Enquirer recieve a Pulitzer? ( regarding the headline that declared Ted Cruz's dad was involved with the JFK assassination, thus failing to discern the difference between a tabloid and legit news -- in my view, that's pretty bad in the judgement dept. ).

This is a man who sued Bill Maher, not over defamation, but to fulfill a "contract" whereby Maher "promised" Trump $5 million dollars if Maher could prove that Trump was not the spawn of an orangutan having sex with his mom, to which Trump instructed his lawyers to dispatch to Maher Trump's birth certificate, thus "proving" Trump was born of human parents and no ape was involved, and thus wanted to collect his $5 million as he was promised in the verbal "contract". The problem is, it was an obvious joke (Maher is a comedian, by the way ) and as such, does not make a binding contract and the judge tossed the suit out. ANd the other amusing thing is that one does not need a birth certificate to prove one is not the offspring of an orangutan and a human, given the fact that humans cannot have sex with orangutans and produce offspring, but, apparently, Trump didn't get the memo of that little detail. Yes, folks, this is the clown who can launch nukes.

I could go one and on and on regarding Trumps complete lack of understanding of consequences of ones actions and things that most children learn when growing up, but why bother, I mean, did I mention that this president has lost 17 sailors in two months under his watch, and during his shrill, nauseating & self-serving speech last night, he did not mention them, but he did find the time to berate Sen McCain, who could die from a brain tumor, whose father the ship was named after that lost 10 (of the 17) sailors at sea.

I don't think Trump supporters understand the peril our nation faces, if a crisis should occur.

But, the tides are turning on Trump, to wit:

A representative (Simpson) for *Fusion GPS, the commercial reseach firm who commissioned the "Steele Dossier" which outlines in great detail lurid kinky sex, but more importantly Trump's shady financials, money laundering and Russia Dealings with criminal oligarchs, helping them launder money under the blessings of Putin, as well as Trump campaign colluding with Russia to throw the election, Simpson testified under oath for 10 hours, and the transcript of that testimony is about to be released (if the Judiciary Committee votes on it, and Sen Grassley expressed that he sees no reason why they won't), and the Dossier details are backed up by 40,000 documents which Fusion has turned over to the Mueller investigation, and they stand by their Dossier that everything in it is true.

The floodgates against Trump are about to be blown wide open.



Last edited by Pat Hardy; 08/24/17 01:36 AM.
#1130122 - 08/24/17 05:41 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Pat Hardy]  
Joined: Jun 2011
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Barry David Butler Online content
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Barry David Butler  Online Content
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I was on the Trump Train but have seen the Light and am now off The Trump Train Wreck. Don't forget that Hitler was Elected. The first thing he did was Shut down the Press and then find a Scapegoat. I believe that he knows exactly what he is doing and can be really dangerous. He was psychologically damaged as a Kid and it's all coming out now. I could go on and on and post stuff all day on my Barry Butler Facebook page so come over and friend me. I have a Song now called IT CAN HAPPEN HERE....Be very afraid of this guy but the real fear should come from his Zombie Fans that while I understand a lot of their anger are very easily manipulated into us and them.

#1130124 - 08/24/17 09:04 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Whazzat?,
We have never had a President like Donald Trump? Well I guess you don't remember Harry Truman. Better be nice to
The Donald or he is going to take away your Rubber Ducky! Many of those civilians working in the Federal Government now are looking at Pink Slips in the near future. But we do need fruit and vegetable pickers in the fields. Alford E. Newman say, "What, me worry.

Uh, Gee sorry Pat, Trumps life has been mostly an open book. The Big Cheese at the Washington Post,
Bob Woodward said several months ago he was going to do a through Investigation of Donald Trump and put 18 people on it.

So far it has been a Dud. Gosh it is common practice for Presidential Candidates to meet with Foreign Leaders even before the Election. President Eisenhower sent his Vice President, Richard Nixon on missions to meet foreign leaders. Today the liberals are trying to sell is as Collusion. But Pat, you do have Nancy Pelosi ! Hey, good luck!


Ray E. Strode
#1130125 - 08/24/17 09:16 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Pat,

It is obvious you are going to believe all the nonsense you want to, which is fine. But I have a little bit of a memory and heard the exact same things said about Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and every other Republican. There is ALWAYS going to be a nuclear war, they are stupid, they don't understand anything, yes, I know. The floodgates are always about to open. Just like the Scientist nuclear clock, the global warming alarmists, the fifteen racist KKK members in their mother's basement, taking over the world, yes I know, it's all about to end.

But if you're correct then we'll all see it. And you'll get your wish. Personally I wouldn't hold my breath. And I wouldn't be watching for mushroom clouds to be appearing anytime soon. The piles of people who were wrong on everything about Trump are what actually keep piling up. And I expect that to keep coming.

But I hope that whatever you do, you don't worry so much about what other people do and focus more on what you can do to make your life a little better. That would be a more reasoned approach to life.

MAB

#1130132 - 08/24/17 08:10 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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couchgrouch  Online Content
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Thanks Brian. Better tune in to Maddow asap...a mob is defacing the George Washington Carver monument in Missouri because Carver shares his first two names with slave owner George Washington.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 08/25/17 08:57 AM.
#1130147 - 08/26/17 11:23 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Martin Lide  Online Content
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Pugsly in NK doesnt likely want to be vaporized. Too cool of a ride. We have 60 or so Nuke subs,some of which are trolling close by. Even if Pugsly fired a nuke. I suspect the Us would shower him with massive conventional weapons before nukes.

If Pugsly did go all in, SE Asia would be horribly disfigured. But he s looking at losing a cush ride and a fiery agonizing death. Dont think he'll push it to that. Sadamesque threats and odd tests seems to be Pugsly's mo.

Pakistan to me is a bigger actual threat for crazy nuke stuff. Combining nukes with morons who think that God hands out virgins to suicide bombers is truly frightening. Coupling that with the freakishness of Pakistan and their dispute with India is more frightening.


Ps to Pat...."Trumps lack of intellectual depth"...step back and take an honest look. He is POTUS because he defeated 17 repubs and 5 or so dems in a long grueling contest. Stupid people cant do that. He is wildly unconventional but not lacking intellectual anything. He lacks the view of the world that you hold.

He became prez by patterning himself after the WWF. Good guys. Bad guys. Nicknames. Bravado and challenges. And it worked. He is your president because he had the smarts to make it work.

#1130154 - 08/27/17 11:36 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I can't simply stand on the side lines anymore. I stayed away from this discussion because politics was supposed to be off the table at JPF after a tumultuous time during last year's election when the pro and anti Trump factions went after eachother---but it appears things have changed.

---and although I do believe you should concentrate on making your own life a good one, I firmly believe in the saying that "all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do (and say) nothing---

So

Trump is where he is because America believed him on lots of issues he actually lied about...like the highest unemployment ever....like immigrants are responsible for most of the US crime and social ills....like China, NAFTA and international trade is responsible for taking American jobs....like "elect me and I will drain the swamp"----like elect me and "I will keep those Mexicans out with a big wall Mexico will pay for"----

He did not need to be smart here. All he had to do was pander to fears and xenophobia and insult his opponents---and tell the biggest lies he could.

And now you have to live with him.

There are Canadians who will no longer travel to the US because they are people of colour

There are people of colour seeking asylum in Canada because of persecution in the US

Trump equates Nazis and white supremicists with those who protest against them...and doubles down by pardoning an openly abusive sheriff who has acted illegally against people of colour....and who has cost his county many millions of dollars in lawsuits.

And that is just his stance on race relations.

He has absolutely no idea how Washington works, how to build coalitions around what he wants done....which means managing the optics AND the reality on the ground...and of course blames everyone but himself for his administration's failures.

Turning to the rest of the world, American has lost its moral authority and Trump gets little respect. The man has absolutely no idea when it comes to foreign relations. You could, for example, be building up relations with Iran, but without any foundation, Trump wants to tear up a deal he knows squat about...marginalizing Iran and pushing them into a corner. Great strategy because when the oft beaten dog takes a bite out of you, you can blame the dog instead of the stick you used. That's just one example. France, Germany and other key European countries simply discount Trump and the USA.

My own "home" country, The Netherlands, were given an ambassador by the US who has absolutely no clue about the country---who believes there are no go zones because of racial unrest there...who stands against its liberal values. Real smart move. But it was a political payoff...kinda like DeVos as Education Secretary---so much for draining the swamp

The man is the most toxic and divisive president in my memory...and I went through Johnson and Nixon and the Vietnam era.

And this is the guy with the nuclear codes.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130157 - 08/27/17 12:16 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Golly John,
You are really good at repeating all the Liberal's Talking points. All the soothsayers are trying to get rid of Trump, some of them started talking Impeachment even before he was sworn in! The people had a good look at him and What's-Her-Name and then looked at their economic situation and you know the rest of the story. Golly sorry but I voted for Trump as well as all of my immediate family, some for the first time. Now don't blow a gasket John, Trump is probably going to be here for the next 8 years and The Swamp may not be fully drained before he leaves as it has been filling up for a hundred years. All the Never Trumpers are scared to death that their little Utopia is going down the drain. Rome is burning and the Titanic is sinking but all the Hangers On are still Re-Arranging the Deck Chairs on the Titanic. It is so funny, but all the Talk Shows are discussing Trump 24-7. Maybe Richard Nixon's record may finally be broken. The Liberal News Media hated Nixon but when they needed a hard hitting News Story it was Nixon they wrote about. No other President Commanded such attention. Without Trump, all those news people would have to go back to flipping hamburgers of sweeping floors! The News Media loves to hate Trump!
Heck John, maybe Trump will put you in charge of the Nuclear Codes! Hate to admit it but we have a bunch of Summer Soldiers in Congress. And the Swamp needs draining!


Ray E. Strode
#1130169 - 08/27/17 04:53 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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MidniteBob Offline
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Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Golly John,
You are really good at repeating all the Liberal's Talking points. All the soothsayers are trying to get rid of Trump, some of them started talking Impeachment even before he was sworn in! The people had a good look at him and What's-Her-Name and then looked at their economic situation and you know the rest of the story. Golly sorry but I voted for Trump as well as all of my immediate family, some for the first time. Now don't blow a gasket John, Trump is probably going to be here for the next 8 years and The Swamp may not be fully drained before he leaves as it has been filling up for a hundred years. All the Never Trumpers are scared to death that their little Utopia is going down the drain. Rome is burning and the Titanic is sinking but all the Hangers On are still Re-Arranging the Deck Chairs on the Titanic. It is so funny, but all the Talk Shows are discussing Trump 24-7. Maybe Richard Nixon's record may finally be broken. The Liberal News Media hated Nixon but when they needed a hard hitting News Story it was Nixon they wrote about. No other President Commanded such attention. Without Trump, all those news people would have to go back to flipping hamburgers of sweeping floors! The News Media loves to hate Trump!
Heck John, maybe Trump will put you in charge of the Nuclear Codes! Hate to admit it but we have a bunch of Summer Soldiers in Congress. And the Swamp needs draining!



I could, but won't, argue with the mental acumen of that.....

....sigh.....Thank you John V., for the Edmund Burke quote reminder!

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

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#1130170 - 08/27/17 05:03 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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So Ray, just to be clear----you dismiss my facts as unworthy liberal talking points and basically state that you would vote for Trump again because he is an excellent president and deserves another term....is that right?


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130171 - 08/27/17 05:27 PM Re: How close are we [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
So Ray, just to be clear----you dismiss my facts as unworthy liberal talking points and basically state that you would vote for Trump again because he is an excellent president and deserves another term....is that right?



Well, John V.

Hhhmmm, golly gosh, why wouldn't anyone vote for anyone other than Trump in 2020. He has accomplished so much in in first 8 months! Stop being such a "Snowflake"!!!!

Fup the Duck, I hope this thread gets obliterated soon!!!

And sometime, in the near future, I hope that Ray, the biggest proponent of "There is no free ride" might actually drop a dime into the yellow button before he spouts again!

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

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#1130172 - 08/27/17 05:34 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Raleigh, ya'll
To quote Edmund Burke:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."


The Trumpeteers will interpret the quote their way...And they are welcomed to it....But as for me, I would prefer to have a president who knew that Frederick Douglass had been dead for a century....

Midnite

Last edited by MidniteBob; 08/27/17 05:37 PM.

Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

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#1130175 - 08/27/17 07:30 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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For the sake of civility, I would suggest we walk away from this "thread to nowhere!" It is a cinch neither group will be able to convince the other of the "righteousness" of their "cause." We have a collection of Trump haters and a group of folks who remember the last eight years of waste, squandering and intentional race baiting coming from the White House. Politics in the United States has sunk to a deplorable state and it is undoubtedly the fault of an unbalanced media hell-bent on inventing news about Russia's meddling in our last election. (Yeah, right! I had three meetings with Putin's KGB agents and single-handedly caused Saint Hillary to lose. LOL!)

I am pleasantly surprised at the number of our "northern neighbors" who take an active interest in American Politics. Is it possible that the Clinton's are paying you to demolish "the Donald?" (I hope you know I have the integrity to admit that such a theory would be a fairy tale of magnificent proportions.)

While I'm at it... I would be remiss to fail to thank "the Fearless Leader of the NOKOs" for only firing off three short-range missiles recently (even though one blew up on the launch pad) and not cause us to "use the codes" to erase them from the Earth's Surface.

Later, youse guys... ----Dave

#1130183 - 08/27/17 09:09 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Gosh John,
Did I read that right? You are from the Netherlands? Did I hear right that the Netherlands is the most liberal, country Europe?
John, I follow Harry Truman's Mantra. I don't Give 'em Hell, I just tell the truth, they think it's hell! And just be fair John, I hope the Canadians win the Stanley Cup this year, or whatever it's called.

Heck no John, I don't dismiss your facts, if you only had some! Have a nice day!


Ray E. Strode
#1130187 - 08/27/17 09:26 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Why can't we all just get along .......?


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.
http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold
#1130188 - 08/27/17 10:15 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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MidniteBob Offline
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Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Gosh John,
Did I read that right? You are from the Netherlands? Did I hear right that the Netherlands is the most liberal, country Europe?
John, I follow Harry Truman's Mantra. I don't Give 'em Hell, I just tell the truth, they think it's hell! And just be fair John, I hope the Canadians win the Stanley Cup this year, or whatever it's called.

Heck no John, I don't dismiss your facts, if you only had some! Have a nice day!


Ray?

Facts,

John V. was born and raised and still lives in Canada, and has done an incredible amount of work after he finished his day-job every day job, helping to bring a variety of churches, of various Faiths together....And when I say "Faiths", I mean Catholics and Christians and Jews and Hindus and etc, etc, etc, and I have an incredible amount of respect for him and his efforts!!!

John is of Dutch decent, but held off on posting as long as his conscience allowed him to.

John lives in Canada, as does the one who started this who started this post!

If anyone can find anything "fake news" about what I have just written, then please do so!

To quote one of the last posts from someone I miss: "I'm scared sh!tless"...

And the "sh!tless" had nothing to do with the nuclear codes....


Midnite











Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1130189 - 08/27/17 10:24 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Vicarn]  
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Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by Vicarn
Why can't we all just get along .......?


Hey, Vic, beats me!

But here, on the JPF General Forum, apparently, old white farts rants are shouting down anyone who is not a Trumpeteer....But I digress...

The link I'm posting is Nick Lowe's...."What's So Funny About Peace Love And Understanding"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy3LpV0THB0

Last edited by MidniteBob; 08/27/17 10:29 PM.

Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1130194 - 08/28/17 08:22 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Thanks Midnite for the kind words. I've been very fortunate in life and feel it is important to give back--to leave this world a bit better than how I found it---and I've been lucky enough to associate myself with the right kinds of people and inspire them to help get some pretty neat things done over the years---. Guess that makes me one of those liberal no goods smile


Ray, instead of presenting Alternative Facts, (thank you Kelly Ann) you simply deny them..so let's just leave that behind because that will get us nowhere.

Before coming back to my unanswered question, lets detour through the coming debt ceiling increase that is being called for by Trump and the Republican controlled House and Senate....does that not just irk you---man...you never accepted that both Democrats and Republicans raised the national debt (another fact you simply denied away) and now that it is happening in real time---man that must be biting you in the A$$....just one of those inconvenient facts that get in the way of your own little world where Trump, who can afford to pay for the talent so he does not pay tax gets more sympathy from you than those who really cannot afford to pay taxes--those shirkers and freeloaders.

So lets just get back to the question you did not answer in your haste to deny the facts ---you would vote for Trump again because he is an excellent president and deserves another term....is that right?

And a quick note to Dave--we closely follow the US because we a re neighbours with a long history and because what you do affects us deeply. So, nope, it's no Clinton conspiracy, and any disrepute associated with Trump is entirely his own doing





If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130195 - 08/28/17 08:56 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Aw,Humm, Well,
Yes it is easy to blame everybody for the Nations Ills. Sorry but all the Entitlement Programs that were passed were by Democrats. All with the best of intentions, I might add. The Republicans never had enough elected reps to do anything. Sorry guys but I was there and saw it first hand, or much of it. The National Debt is again rising because there isn't enough money coming in to pay all the bills. I of course don't have all the details of who put some spending bill on the docket and was passed into the great slush fund now to be forever lost in the shuffle of history. Hell is for heroes and Trump fills the bill to a T. I understand Rome Rotted from the inside out. But it's Midnight Cinderella and the string has run out. Why do you think Corporations have left the country? Because the Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, and Communists all want to run the country but they want the Conservatives to pay for it. Hey, just raise taxes on the Rich. Only one thing wrong with that. The Rich don't have enough money to fund all the programs the democrats have passed. It is midnight and your Carriage has turned back into a pumpkin. The democrats had the congress for 40 years. Everything should have been fixed by now. So peasants, I have to ask, what happened????


Ray E. Strode
#1130201 - 08/28/17 12:16 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Don't you just love being selective about what caused the debt to rise Ray? To you it's all because of these pesky poor who get entitlements and the d&(*&(mn liberals ---

Military spending, subsidies to farmers and corporations, transportation, all kinds of other federal programs in the annual federal budgets---another set of facts you simply choose to ignore...maybe worse..."if they had not spent on social programs we would .... yes, choices....if you had not ....

And now all that federal money being spent to help the people in Texas...d*)(*mn, why can't Dave Rice just look after himself. Why should you pay anything to help???? (Dave I do hope you are alright)

And you are still ducking the question Ray------you would vote for Trump again because he is an excellent president and deserves another term....is that right?


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1130203 - 08/28/17 01:23 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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OK, John,
To answer your question, would or will I vote for Trump again? Well I may not be here as I am older than dirt but yes, I will and most will vote for Trump again. But John, to be fair, name me some democrats you think will be better for the country? Hillary has been running for President all her life. She, and maybe you think the country needs a baby sitter. But what the country needs is a good Marine Sargent. Oh shucks that's what they voted for! Silly me. If the U.S. goes down the drain guess where the rest of the world goes. Everybody wants to come here and they all want to sell goods to the United States. We need to get rid of Obama Care so people will have jobs so they can buy more goods.

Whazzat John? I am ducking the reason why the National Debt keeps going up? Gosh John, I have no clue. Maybe it's because the people send a nickle up to the government and get 10 dollars back in services. Maybe that's it John, what's your answer? I believe Hillary's plan was to tax the top one tenth of one percent and hand the money out in subsidies. You know, more Corporations leaving the country and jobs disappearing. I should be charging for all this good advice, no?


Ray E. Strode
#1130206 - 08/28/17 03:29 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Pat,

It is obvious you are going to believe all the nonsense you want to, which is fine. But I have a little bit of a memory and heard the exact same things said about Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and every other Republican. There is ALWAYS going to be a nuclear war, they are stupid, they don't understand anything, yes, I know. The floodgates are always about to open. Just like the Scientist nuclear clock, the global warming alarmists, the fifteen racist KKK members in their mother's basement, taking over the world, yes I know, it's all about to end.

But if you're correct then we'll all see it. And you'll get your wish. Personally I wouldn't hold my breath. And I wouldn't be watching for mushroom clouds to be appearing anytime soon. The piles of people who were wrong on everything about Trump are what actually keep piling up. And I expect that to keep coming.

But I hope that whatever you do, you don't worry so much about what other people do and focus more on what you can do to make your life a little better. That would be a more reasoned approach to life.

MAB


What did I write about Trump that was "nonsense"? I'm 66, and Reagan, Bush, etc., at least had qualities requisite of being a president, but Trump has very little. And the floodgates did blow wide open on Reagan - his presidency was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials. The exact same things were not said of either Bush, though they were criticized. I admire your attempt to trivialize a very real concern about Trump due to what others have said about other presidents, but your not going to get away with that one, not on this president.

Mueller will get the goods on this president, eventually, but the question is, will the republican congress have the will to impeach him? Mueller will have to find some pretty serious things to provoke it, I think the chances are 50/50. Chances will be a lot higher should dems retake congress.

I don't worry about what others do, but everyone should be concerned about the simple fact we have the most incompetent, ignorant, President in history, who just pardoned Sheriff Arpaio whom many republicans and democrats have admonished..

Who is Arpaio? The depth of his cruelty knows no bounds, he didn't run a jail, he ran a concentration camp.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maricopa_County_Sheriff%27s_Office_controversies#Joe_Arpaio

The presidency of Donald Trump is not about America, it's a strategy to raise awareness of the Trump brand. He is monetizing the presidency like no one in history.

While Trump, was exclaiming, "I never contacted the Russians" we now know that during the campaign, he was communicating to Russians about a new Trump tower in Moscow.






Last edited by Pat Hardy; 08/28/17 03:32 PM.
#1130207 - 08/28/17 03:52 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
OK, John,
To answer your question, would or will I vote for Trump again? Well I may not be here as I am older than dirt but yes, I will and most will vote for Trump again. But John, to be fair, name me some democrats you think will be better for the country? Hillary has been running for President all her life. She, and maybe you think the country needs a baby sitter. But what the country needs is a good Marine Sargent. Oh shucks that's what they voted for! Silly me. If the U.S. goes down the drain guess where the rest of the world goes. Everybody wants to come here and they all want to sell goods to the United States. We need to get rid of Obama Care so people will have jobs so they can buy more goods.

Whazzat John? I am ducking the reason why the National Debt keeps going up? Gosh John, I have no clue. Maybe it's because the people send a nickle up to the government and get 10 dollars back in services. Maybe that's it John, what's your answer? I believe Hillary's plan was to tax the top one tenth of one percent and hand the money out in subsidies. You know, more Corporations leaving the country and jobs disappearing. I should be charging for all this good advice, no?


Ray, you seem to be suggesting that your reason for voting for a Republican is

1. We need a Marine Sargent as president
2. The debt keeps going up and up (implying dems are the sole reason )


On 1#, Trump applied for 5 draft deferments, and never served.

On 2#, Republican administrations have increased the national debt more than Democratic administrations ( excluding World War II [therefore, 1946 to end of year 2015], the average increase in the federal debt was 4.7% under a Democratic administrations and 7.9% under a Republican administrations ).

Moreover, stocks did better under democrats, as well. Jobs, etc, were better.

Here's the deal, Ray, in the 80s, I was a republican, and I voted for Reagan.

I gradually switched to democratic party. The republican message made a lot of sense, but one day I thought I would look at the stats on republican vs democrats, and the stats are better with democrats. I switched on stats, alone. It took me several years to grasp why this was true.

The republicans do not practice what they preach. Moreover, what seems like sound logic for micro economics breaks down in macro economics. For example, republicans argue that a minimum wage increases unemployment. While that might be true for an excessively high minimum wage, but for a reasonable minimum wage, history defies that argument. I could go on and on about republican ideology and flawed thinking.

You run a business like the military, a command line structure, reward the productive and penalize the non-productive, that's correct, you can't have committees running a business.

A business is a private enterprize. A nation is the opposite, it is a public enterprise and if you run a nation like a business you will eventually wind up with bolshevik styled revolution.

You simply have to take care of the disadvantaged and not let the super rich rig the system (which is what they have done) which widens the gap between the rich and the poor. Nothing spawns the seeds of revolution more than when national morale tanks owing to oppressive policies to the lower classes.

"If you want to live like a republicans, vote like a democrat" --Harry S. Truman

The pendulum can only rest in the center.

"there are no road apples in the center of the road" -- Jimmy Carter




Last edited by Pat Hardy; 08/28/17 03:58 PM.
#1130208 - 08/28/17 03:58 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Hi Gang:

I sat down last night and started writing my "treatise" on this "problem" and after about four or five paragraphs, paused and realized I am wasting my time on this highly toxic political drivel. I will never convince those of you on the side of the left that I am right and you are wrong. With that in mind, I propose a truce. I have so many opinions about all of this and get so tired of hearing all the opinions about how bad things are here in the United States. Be grateful you don't live in Nokoland, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Syria... and all those other places where human rights are not even in the zone of consideration.

Many of you on the opposing side present eloquent theories and attempt to be polite while others hurl profanities and insults. We can argue our opinions until we are blue in the face and neither side will prevail. Eventually, all of this will subside and we will return to normal. Above all, I respect your right to be wrong... and my right to be right! LOL! Truce! Let's find something we can agree about. Remember, God loves all of us... even when we are naughty. ----Dave

#1130216 - 08/28/17 08:24 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray, I have no issues with your voting choice...just wanted you to say it loud and proud because you were ducking the question.

I do have issues with your economic analyis but that is because I actually majored in economics in university as a basis for getting my CPA.

You rail against Obamcare and minimum wages as job killers, but I can point to other countries with universal health care and mandatory health insurance programs, and their World Economic Forum Rankings (ranks countries on their international competitiveness) are just fine. Singapore and Switzerland rank ahead of the USA last year and both have versions of Obamacare. The US ranks 3rd. Germany and (yes that bastion of Liberals) the Netherlands follow, and both have mandated health insurace. Japan, which comes next at 6th place, actually has a co pay system where the individual pays 30% of their health care costs. After that come Hong Kong, Finland, Sweden, the UK, Denmark, and Canada.....all with national health care programs.

Out of the TOP 13 most competitive nations in the world, ONLY the US has an issue with providing "Obamacare" to its citizens. I can't think of clearer proof that a national health care system does not hinder a nation's competitiveness.

As for Republican or Democrat...that to me is entirely up to the US voter and the differences really mean nothing. We can both point to good and bad administrations and they have been Republican and Democrat. Neither party has a monopoly on virtue, smarts, or idiots who should not be in power.

My preference is to see both parties actually work together for the common good of ALL Americans. You can go back to our earlier discussions to see that I advocated this back then and still do. The US government is entirely dysfunctional at the national level because neither party want to see the other pary succeed in anything because that could mean votes and support in the next election. The polarization is extreme. IMO a lot of the issues faced by the US will go away if both parties actually co operate.

And I do hope you are around to cast a vote in 2020. We may disagree, but I'd be honoured and happy to, given the chance, hoist a beer or three with you and shoot the breeze.

And Dave, glad to see you are alright.







If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130217 - 08/28/17 09:01 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well Pat,
While you were becoming a Democrat much of the country was becoming Republican. Most of the states have Republican Governors and legislators. A black democrat legislator congressman from Alabama who seconded Obama's first term got disillusioned with Obama and changed to a Republican. The Governor of West Virginia just changed to Republican.

Sorry John, I didn't rail about the minimum wage. So far a few places in the country have tried it and the results were people lost their jobs. Once again the Democrats, voted for by the people, have set the agenda in the country for the last 100 years.Give or take some exceptions. Of course you can ignore all the Chaos around you but it will bite you in the ass sooner or later.The nearly 20 Trillion Dollar Federal debt is a glaring failure of the left. People were surprised when Trump was elected.

There is an old saying good buddies, CHARITY STARTS AT HOME. What that means is before you ask for help you try to do it your self. And once again, all the Entitlements are running out of money, Pension Funds are severely under funded, and Health Premiums are going up. It is all around you. So people may still vote for the Nanny State but like in the Old Soviet Union, when the go to the grocery store and there are severe shortages they will understand.

People have been trying it your way John for the last 100 years. Guess 100 years is not enough time.


Ray E. Strode
#1130218 - 08/28/17 11:03 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Raleigh, ya'll
Life is too short....

Ray, please, just answer me this. Have you EVER dropped a penny into keeping the JPF Boards from closing down from lack of funds?

I think that's a very simple "yes or no" question....The answer is easily found, but I would just like to hear your response before you mouth off again....

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1130226 - 08/29/17 11:45 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Aw, Humm, Well,
Pat, if the National Debt went up more under Republican Administrations it was because of Programs passed by the Democrats. But the people voted for it all these years, no? Now those chickens have come home to roost. Do we need a Nanny or a Marine Sargent in the White House? Well somebody needs to keep the Grocery Shelves filled. Can your Nanny do the job?

Uh, Midnite, about that dropping a dime. Do you know how hard it is to find a Phone Booth these days? Even Superman is having trouble. But as soon as I can find a Phone Booth......


Ray E. Strode
#1130239 - 08/29/17 05:39 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well Pat,
While you were becoming a Democrat much of the country was becoming Republican. Most of the states have Republican Governors and legislators. A black democrat legislator congressman from Alabama who seconded Obama's first term got disillusioned with Obama and changed to a Republican. The Governor of West Virginia just changed to Republican.

Sorry John, I didn't rail about the minimum wage. So far a few places in the country have tried it and the results were people lost their jobs. Once again the Democrats, voted for by the people, have set the agenda in the country for the last 100 years.Give or take some exceptions. Of course you can ignore all the Chaos around you but it will bite you in the ass sooner or later.The nearly 20 Trillion Dollar Federal debt is a glaring failure of the left. People were surprised when Trump was elected.

There is an old saying good buddies, CHARITY STARTS AT HOME. What that means is before you ask for help you try to do it your self. And once again, all the Entitlements are running out of money, Pension Funds are severely under funded, and Health Premiums are going up. It is all around you. So people may still vote for the Nanny State but like in the Old Soviet Union, when the go to the grocery store and there are severe shortages they will understand.

People have been trying it your way John for the last 100 years. Guess 100 years is not enough time.


This "USA will turn into Soviet Union with dems in charge" that republicans spew is such BS and is scare mongering, a tactic they are fond of doing. None of the countries, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, are even remotely similar to the Soviet Union nor is there any possibility they will become like the Soviet Union..

1. "much of the country has turned republican". What matters is how people vote, not which party they identify with. Both Hillary and Obama got a the larger share of the votes. Hillary got almost 3 million more votes ( most dems argue that Bernie could have done better, but we will never know). Bush / Gore was, statistically speaking, 50/50. Bush won because a conservative SCOTUS disallowed a handful of uncounted votes in FLA to be counted, and by the way, Bush's brother was gov of FLA at the time. Trump won because of a fluke in the electoral system, he lost the popular vote by a wider margin that some presidents won by. Republicans win in congress because republicans have gerrymandered many districts, so representation is not commensurate with the vote.

2. When wages are lower than necessary to live, workers go on food stamps, etc., which results in a higher cost to society than if a firm paid a livable wage. Walmart was encouraging employees to go on foodstamps. When you don't pay a livable wage, society is giving welfare to the corporation ( requiring tax payers to take up the slack ).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareo...llion-in-public-assistance/#2bb431b4720b

3. No one disagrees with the concept of self initiative, that argument is a red herring. Also, libertarians argue to end entitlements and let charities handle it. Charities help, but they are where near enough to deal with the problem.

SS is projected to be solvent until 2034, so congress has 17 years to solve that problem. I wouldn't sound the alarms just yet.

Medicare is also solvent, despite the lies by Trump and Ryan.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextav...securitys-solvency-and-you/#6dcc17372199

Many governors are elected in midterm elections, and the big beef I have with democrats is that for midterm elections, because there is no president running, dems tend to stay home, while republicans, who are older and more politically active than dems, do. This is also why there are so many laws being enacted by republican legislatures & governors whose effect is to make it harder for minorities to vote, since if they can reduce the size of the voting block, it helps republicans. So, your argument that there are more republican governors "proves" republicans are the larger group is nonsense. Trump is causing many democrats to wake up, and realize the importance of the mid term elections.

But, Trump has galvanized dems like no other, so let's see what happens in 2018.

Last edited by Pat Hardy; 08/29/17 05:56 PM.
#1130240 - 08/29/17 06:26 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Aw, Humm, Well,
Pat, if the National Debt went up more under Republican Administrations it was because of Programs passed by the Democrats. But the people voted for it all these years, no? Now those chickens have come home to roost. Do we need a Nanny or a Marine Sargent in the White House? Well somebody needs to keep the Grocery Shelves filled. Can your Nanny do the job?

Uh, Midnite, about that dropping a dime. Do you know how hard it is to find a Phone Booth these days? Even Superman is having trouble. But as soon as I can find a Phone Booth......


"Programs passed by Dems" ?

Presidents have the veto pen so whatever is passed, the buck stops with the prez. (Unless you are Trump, where the buck stops somewhere else ).

I find it interesting that despite all the republican rhetoric, "republicans are the party of fiscal conservatism", that the stats do not bear this out. I find it interesting that despite their claim of being "the party for pro-business policies" stocks have historically done better under democrats. One would think, at the very least, stocks would do better under republicans.

Let's take California in the 70s. I remember when they enacted stricter carbon emissions laws, the republicans bellyached all over the place, arguing "jobs will be lost' blah blah. Back then I remember it well -- I drove down the 91 to LAX, and downtown, about 10 miles away, you could not see it for all the smog. Well, CA carbon emissions are very strict, but guess what, you can drive down the 91 today and downtown is clear as day, and you know what else? Public heath is better, resulting in less strain on health care costs, and new green industries are being spawned, and whoa, it turned out the the stricter controls were BETTER for business, let alone health.

The decline of the standard of living is much worse now when the highest tax rate for the super rich is 39% than it was in the 50s when it was much much higher. The decline of the standard of living corresponds pretty much to the gradual chipping away of the progressive tax system, which is largely the result of conservativism.

Your "marine sargent for prez" and "nanny state" is emotional nonsense, having nothing to do with reality. I argue hard data, and pragmatism as the basis of policy, not ideology.

"If you want to live like a republican, vote like a democrat" --- Harry S. Truman

"If the rich are allow to keep more, more will trickle down to the poor" --- Reagan

Money won't trickle down, but the rich will trickle ON the poor, if repubs are allowed to enact their crazy policies.

#1130243 - 08/29/17 08:35 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Yesssir Goldberg,
All those Dirty low down Republicans got elected by the Skin of their Teeth! There ain't nothin' but Crooks running Wall street. Damn, the last four special elections for congress were for those dirty low down Republicans! The last three congressional elections were won by Republicans. Damn, they can fool a lot of people! Guess us peasants don't have a chance!
Sorry Pat, Harry Truman also said, IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT, STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN.
And Pat we have been doing things your way for the last 100 years. Things should have been all fixed by now, so I have to ask,
What Happened????


Ray E. Strode
#1130249 - 08/29/17 10:19 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Pat, save your breath (or your fingers). There is no point in winning the same argument every day and still having to do it the next. Ray ain't listening, and he's not obliged to. Life is way too short and there is too much music to be made.

#1130257 - 08/30/17 09:54 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well Damn!
Where is Al Capp when we need him! I guess all those SHMOOS died. Well we still have Nancy and Chuckie. And Pat and Gavin. I think it was Abe Lincoln who said: YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME AND YOU CAN FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME. All those carefully laid plans have gone down the drain. The Left Wing Politicians are running around like a bunch of rats leaving a sinking ship. You put somebody else in charge of your Check Book and see what happens.

It was Harry Truman who said, THE BUCK STOPS HERE, but didn't like it.
It was Bill Clinton who said, THE BUCK NEVER GOT HERE, and got the first Republican Congress in 40 years.
News Flash. Re-read the words above by Abe Lincoln, and wave goodbye to your Welfare Check.


Ray E. Strode
#1130259 - 08/30/17 10:32 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray you must be fuming that the Feds are going beyond their constitutional powers (well they are not really but you have argued this in the past) by helping out in Texas and Louisisana...those freeloaders!

Why can't charities do this work? (They are--but limited resources) Why can't those neighbours help? (They are in a magnificent way as they rise to the occasion) Why is this not a state responsibility? (they too are working as best they can)

Really----why does it have to be YOUR hard earned tax dollars? It's not right Ray---you should write your Congressman and Senator and complain bitterly.

And welfare? No stinking welfare for anyone. Let them live and die in the streets like decent human beings should,,,handouts harrumpf.

You need the money to keep paying farmers not to grow certain crops, make BILLIONS of payments to companies like GM, Shell, JP Morgan Chase ..., fund tax cuts for the wealthy. Thank goodness though that those payment do not contribute to your deficit.

And that almost 8 Trillion dollar bailout to Wall Street? Certainly that had to be done because you know it was those greedy people who bought houses with shady mortgages that were to blame---certainly not the sleazy mortgage brokers who made sure those who could not afford to buy a house qualified for deferred payment and back loaded mortgages and eager lenders who were incentived (read got rich off of) all those shaky mortgages and then sold them to Wall Street who got lots of money (read got rich off of) syndicating them out who then lost big time when the housing market crashed. Wall Street was the victim for sure, so all those people who then got huge bonuses out of the bailout funds were just getting what they deserved. Oh and that too did not add to the deficit.

Meanwhile, get those welfare collecting shirkers out of sight. There has to be an underpass somewhere for them



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130261 - 08/30/17 11:26 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Aw, Humm, Well,
John. I have said and it is time to return all Entitlements to the States where the people in each state can decide what to do with them. It is the old story, just pass some bill in Congress and it will take care of it's self. Well they passed Medicare and what happened? Lots of Crooks went into the medicine business and ripped off the system. In fact it was said if you want to rip the system the best way to do it was get into medicine. Bank robbing was old hat. Now John not to criticize you but when things like Harvey happen there have been people charging enormous prices for things people need to help like plywood, etc. Yes sometimes people need welfare. I have no problem with that. As we speak I am waiting for a request from the Red Cross for money for Harvey. Sent money for 911.

As far as the Mortgage situation it was the Government, congress, that relaxed the Banking rules that allowed anybody to get a mortgage. I think they were called Liar Loans. Tons of them couldn't make the payments and were forclosed on. And who did those same congressman blame. Wall Street! And lets see, the "Crooks" Taxed the Businness out of the Country. The money sitting Offshore ain't going to come back as long as the "Crooks" can get their hands on it.


Ray E. Strode
#1130263 - 08/30/17 12:17 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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yes Ray, lots of crooks went into medicine...and many other businesses dependent on federal programs--like veterans education. But the bad guys include the big money lobby groups and a federal government that allows businesses to write legislation favourable to themselves in exchange for hefty campaign contributions or make sure their friends stand first in line to take advantage of these programs. And those inflated supply contracts? Could it be cronyism? Campaign contributions? Nawwww...never.

And state welfare, yup. I can see how that could end up being a one way bus ticket several states over where welfare may be better.

Except of course for Walmart employees who get paid squat but get counseled how to apply for food stamps. They have to stay where they are because Walmart needs them...how else will that turn into hundreds of millions of dollars annually to subsidise the Waltons wage costs.

But then Ray, you do seem to ignore corporate welfare which costs far more than individual welfare programs...and you could be right to do so. I mean how else can income and wealth inequality grow?

Just had an idea how Trump could really make a difference and end up looking really good. How's about he kickstarts a "Billionaire's Reconstruction Fund" with say 100 million of his own dollars, that can then be added to by the super wealthy people. They can go a long way to rebuilding Texas and other affected areas and what a political coup for Trump and the wealthy US citizens that would instantly gain him so much goodwill.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130265 - 08/30/17 12:57 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Uh, John,
If you remember, you probably don't, Trump funded his own campaign so he wouldn't owe anything to anybody. Corporate Welfare? Musta not worked out too well as many Corporations just left the country. There a lot of things the Liberal News Media doesn't report because all the F'***ups they participated in were glaring failures. Why cut your own throat if you don't have to.
If all the good programs some like were such successes we wouldn't have a 20 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt. Obama sit around with his finger up his *ss and his mind in neutral waiting for good things to happen.

Maybe you have heard about the Goose that laid the Golden Egg. The Automobile Unions tried to kill the goose and wrote themselves big pay raises until the money ran out. The Auto companies just cut the quality of the auto and raised the prices and wanted to sell you a new car as soon as the Warrenty ran out. That's about as long as a car would last.

But, along came the Japanese and started making tough long lasting cars. Hell people couldn't believe it! You mean a car will last 10 or 20 years! So today what do you see most of on the roads?

Food stamps? Obama was the Food Stamp President, wasn't he? I hear all the illegals are no longer signing up for Food Stamps because they are afraid they going to be deported. There is only so much money in the system John. That means you have to work to get anywhere.

And all those voters John, they could care less what happens on Wall Street. Many of them are still way behind with their economic situation. But another Big Spending Bill will solve that, eh, John? Just like the last ones.


Ray E. Strode
#1130268 - 08/30/17 03:46 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John, Ray has consumed prodigious amounts of the Kool-Aid and you are standing in the way.

#1130285 - 08/31/17 09:44 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Whazzat?,
We have never had a President like Donald Trump? Well I guess you don't remember Harry Truman. Better be nice to
The Donald or he is going to take away your Rubber Ducky! Many of those civilians working in the Federal Government now are looking at Pink Slips in the near future. But we do need fruit and vegetable pickers in the fields. Alford E. Newman say, "What, me worry.

Uh, Gee sorry Pat, Trumps life has been mostly an open book. The Big Cheese at the Washington Post,
Bob Woodward said several months ago he was going to do a through Investigation of Donald Trump and put 18 people on it.

So far it has been a Dud. Gosh it is common practice for Presidential Candidates to meet with Foreign Leaders even before the Election. President Eisenhower sent his Vice President, Richard Nixon on missions to meet foreign leaders. Today the liberals are trying to sell is as Collusion. But Pat, you do have Nancy Pelosi ! Hey, good luck!


Collusion is not illegal, but if it involves aiding and abetting espionage to corrupt democracy, or colluding with Russian oligarchs to launder money, that's another story. As for evidence of this, there's a lot of smoke pointing at that direction, but, whether the cloud is smoke, or vapor, we'll just have to wait to see where Mueller's investigation leads. Not certain about collusion with Russians to thwart the election, but I do believe they have evidence of Trump either doing money laundering himself, or aiding and abbetting Russians doing it, or both. Trump blatantly lied when he exclaimed during the campaign "I made no contact with Russia" when, in fact, we have a signed letter of intent of building a Trump Tower in Moscow (and applying for a loan with VTB bank -- Russian bank, noting that 61% of that bank's shares are owned by Putin ) and this was going on about the time of the third debate.

Okay, you got me with Pelosi, but most dems I know want some new blood. Personally, I'm liking Kamala Harris more and more.

First thing I want to say, Ray, is that if you still have a typewriter, "just in case", well, despite your politics, I have to like a guy that keeps a typewriter "just in case", that would be me, as well. I'm a closet Luddite at heart ( but don't take away my cell phone ).

Now then, please don't compare Truman to Trump.

Trump went to Texas the other day, and when the body count was about 20 lost souls, long before Trump even mentioned them ( the next day, on teleprompter ) what did Trump talk about? Crowd size. This is a president whose gut reaction is about crowd size, and no mention of the deaths and no mention of the brave first responders, etc, his gut reaction is "crowd size". Similarly, when confronted about what the Khan family said about him at the convention, any concerned right thinking person's first instinct would have been to thank them for their sacrifice ( they lost a son in the war ), so what was Trump's gut reaction when asked about their comments about him at the convention" Trump's gut reaction was to criticize that their religion was responsible for her being quiet during her Husband's speech.

I"m sorry, Ray, these types of things are the mark of a little man. And Trump most definitely is a little man. Little men are rarely capable of doing big things. Oh, they can do things that will get noticed, like slap names on buildings or do reality TV, but they never do great things.

I could fill a book with his flaws, but if your reaction is " well every one has flaws" my answer is this: Hey, I like Archie Bunker, but an Archie Bunker who inherited a lot of money and slapped his names on a lot of buildings is still Archie Bunker, and I would shoot pool, have a beer, with Archie, but as for who should be president, I want a man who is bigger, better, greater, nobler, than me for that Job, and I can say categorically that Trump is not a bigger , better, greater and more noble than me, and if I were running for president, I would not vote me, nor would any sensible person.

Trump not only is not "presidential" he's not even acting professional. But that's just it, he's had a ton of money since day one, he's never had to apply for a job, and deal with bosses who might have whipped him into shape. It's obvious that his early bout with a military styled school was all for naught, and the reason is that Trump new all along that he was going to start out life rich and had no incentive to modify his behavior.

If I acted like Trump in the real world, I wouldn't have a job for very long. Trump has never had to apply for a job, he's never been subject to many life's situations that force people to park their egos and grow.

I don't even buy the premise that because he's rich he will therefore be able to "get things done".

He's been the boss, the guy holding the purse strings, and in his former world he would snap his fingers and people would jump. He lacked the wisdom to understand that the Job of president will not afford him that luxury, he thought it would be just as easy as it was to get things done as he was able to in his businesses. If he had possessed the wisdom to understand that aspect of the presidency, he would never have made such stupid statements as "only I can fix it"

Again, the complete list of his shortcomings could easily fill a book, and that is the point. Everyone has shortcomings, it's just that I want a president whose shortcomings would only fill a paragraph or two, not an entire book.

Truman had a plaque on his desk, it said " The Buck Stops Here".

With Trump, the buck stops over there, or anywhere but "here".











Last edited by Pat Hardy; 08/31/17 10:36 AM.
#1130286 - 08/31/17 09:49 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Gavin this should not get personal....I too am frustrated by Ray's "selective thinking" but fully support his right to his opinion. The ONLY reason I jumped into this conversation was to, once again, challenge some of his "alternative facts"

And Ray, I think there are two fundamental flaws in your argument (well besides the "alternative facts").

1) You assume everyone is equally capable, everyone faces the same challenges, everyone is equally healthy etc so that everyone is equally capable of looking after themselves. Not everyone's arc of life has unfolded like yours and\or mine. and

2) You fail to recognize that lots of very well off people and corporations get federal money and entitlements and tax concessions they actually lobby hard for...yet you only beef about monies going to help the poor because "they take advantage of the system"







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#1130290 - 08/31/17 10:47 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Well,
John, I said, think I said, that all Entitlements, Welfare Programs, etc. belong in the States where the people in each state can Fund them, and decide what is needed. Now I can give you 20 Trillion reasons why I say that. True, some people need help. I have no problem with that. Clear?

Some time ago the big thinkers thought they had a better plan. Would be nice if it worked but the results are anything but.
When the Pilgrims came to the New World they had to work, there was no Welfare system in place for them to fall back on. Again, yes from time to time people need some help. I have no problem with that. No one does but when a program was put in place to help it never ended and has now run up a 20 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt with no end in sight. The people finally had enough of the Welfare State, Hillary's World, and rejected it last election. The Swamp is deep and wide, and draining it will have to have people with guts enough to take it on or go down the same road Rome went.

The National Debt is on the docket to be raised again. Again, a Glaring Failure of the Liberal Left. And it appears the Liberal Left would rather destroy the country than do any repairs. The plan seems to be Kick the can down the road and Rome is now in sight. Trump sees this. But will the people do the hard work or pass the Buck????


Ray E. Strode
#1130291 - 08/31/17 11:20 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John,
You are frustrated because all the Social Programs that you and many others bought into are going to Hell in a Hand Basket.
The ever rising Premiums for Obama Care is one Example. Can't remember exactly but I seem to remember The Annointed One said you would save about $2500 on your Preimums. They are going thru the roof even with the government subsidies sent by the government, Tax Payers, to the Health Insurers. And remember John, I don't make the News, I just report the News!


Ray E. Strode
#1130293 - 08/31/17 12:26 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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There’s no easy answer… no doubt the entitlement programs create a degree of dependence and abuse. Distinguishing between the abuse and the truly needed is as difficult as distinguishing between honesty and dishonesty in our society (impossible task). How many more people would fend for themselves without the safety net can’t be determined without making the truly needy suffer (that’s the catch). But the Government should be careful in what kind of society it’s creating.

Just observations, no solutions. Though making recipients of entitlements do a couple days of community service would place them in the mainstream and give them incentive and possibly skills to move ahead. And would set precedence that there’s no such thing as free rides.

John smile

#1130294 - 08/31/17 12:38 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Lots to unpack there Ray...

1) To transfer all such programs to individual states is problematic because not all states are as equally endowed with resources, businesses, populations, infrastructure conditions, experiences, etc---so that there is no way all US citizens would be treated equally. You just end up with, from a national perspective, patchwork solutions and large economic disparities between them. AND as I said, you simply end up with people who WANT to rig the system moving to states with the best programs, or worse, and this happens, you give the poor and transients one way bus tickets and voila, problem gone. A national program and mandate sets minimum standards for every US citizen

2) When the pilgrims came, you had a very basic agrarian economy and no cities with a very diverse and specialized labour\talent pool-two very fundamentally different states of existence.

3) I think I get it now Ray...even Republicans are part of the Liberal Left to you...I can think of no other reason why you now call a Republican controlled House, Senate AND Presidency who are now responsible for raising the debt ceiling ..AND we have proven to you time and again that debt was run up by Democrats and Repblicans alike.

4) Health care is a basic human right. To not be bankrupted by medical costs because you happen to be unlucky\unfortunate is also an important right. That Obamacare was badly implemented is a result of both parties bickering destructively over the plan. You would have been far better off had both parties worked together to do it right.

This all may not be news that I'm reporting, but it too is reality.



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130296 - 08/31/17 01:18 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Um, yes,
True you can't fix in 8 or 12 years what the country has been 100 years getting into this mess. It may have been a even bigger mess for the Pilgrims, no? Most people can take care of themselves and of course have to to pay taxes for those that need some assistance. But some, many maybe learn nothing and continue on the same path.

Health care is a basic right? That means you/they can stick their hand in my pocket and take what they want. I don't mind helping but I resist stealing. But I say, you can have anything you want, as long as you pay for it. No, basic health care isn't a right but we have approved spending programs to help. And we have the 20 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt to prove it!

I was once watching a Nature Program about a pair of Ospreys (Large Birds of Prey) raising their young. The nest was way up high in a tree. When the young were fully grown the Adult Birds left the nest. The young either had to fly or die.

Excuse me. Medicare, Medicaid, Obama Care, etc. The people would have been better off leaving things the way they were.
People are always trying to beat the system. Me too.


Ray E. Strode
#1130302 - 08/31/17 02:13 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray you miss the entire point of a universal health care system. It exist so that if YOU get sick, YOU are not bankrupt.

Your essential problem is that you want no part of any plan whereby your money subsidizes someone else.

But that means that as you age and become more susceptible to illness, that you don't end up paying exorbitant premiums or worse, can't get insurance.

So nothing wrong at all taking that approach. It is definitely not stealing your money. It protects YOU from financial disaster just like any other form of insurance.

And Ospreys??? Well Sea Turtles lay eggs and leave. Their young have no parenting at all. Many wild "pack\pride" animals lose their young when a new alpha male takes over and kills them. Did you ever see the one where the wild stallion killed the colts? Something about instinct destroying all but their own genetic line. Some packs, like wolves, only allow their alpha pair to breed. Harp seals simply leave their young behind to fend for themselves..and many of them get eaten by predators. Panda Bears generally have two cubs, but mom instinctively focuses on only the stronger one and lets to weaker one die. Now...what is your point? Is it to leave your kids to sink or swim? Is to to not care about your neighbour? Please enlighten me.


AND YES YES. People are always looking to beat the system. You can look at GM, Ford, Boeing, Walmart, General Electric, Intel, Big Pharma, etc etc etc.who get scads of federal handouts...and of course those pesky welfare cheats who seem to be the only ones vilified for doing it. No one seems to care when Boeing takes lots of handouts just before closing a plant and lays off their work force...wonder why that is?

AND YES YES YES, that pesky 20 trillion dollar is growing...as that Paragon of the Liberal Left Trump and his Liberal Bigly Lefter Republican controlled House and Senate raise the ceiling



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130303 - 08/31/17 04:10 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Aw, Yes John,
I understand the Universal Health Care Plan all too well. Called the Single Payer Plan. Everybody gets Health Care but nobody pays. That Plan? I under stood it when Lyndon Johnson Got Medicare passed. Senator Diane Fienstien, Senator from California of all places told the people of California she wasn't on board with the idea. But some people think it will work. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Socalisim has been tried in the Old Soviet Union, Greece Porto Rico, Venezuela, France, etc, etc, etc.

John, several years ago there were some Hospitals in Texas that had to close their doors. It seems only the illegals were using the services and of course nobody was paying. Not sure but probably some convoluted Law that requires a Hospital to serve everybody. A couple of songs I invite you to Google and listen to. CASH ON THE BARREL HEAD by The Louvin Brothers and PHILADELPHIA LAWYER by Maddox Brothers and Rose. I of course guess my posts will go in one ear and out the other but some people never learn, No?


Ray E. Strode
#1130308 - 08/31/17 06:15 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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If you understand universal health care programs, then how can you bash it?

Let's just focus on outcomes


We'll let Business Insider take the first crack at telling you how the world ranks

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/the-16-countries-with-the-worlds-best-healthcare-systems-2017-1/

Highlights--Canada at #16 with a fully government funded system, and there is that pesky Netherlands again taking the #5 spot.
Unsurprisingly, the USA does not make the cut,,,but it does say the Canadians are heading south for specialist treatment...



http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...ns-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

Maybe you like this one better. It is a ranking by the World Health Organization. It actually ranks Canada 30th. Now that is awesome if you want to bash our universal health care system...until you see the USA is ranked at 37th, and a lot of countries with universal health care or versions of "Obamacare" rank very highly...and that pesky bastion of Liberal thinking Netherlands is 17th



http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

Then there is this gem of a report,,,again based on WHO data.

It ranks the top 11 countries and the US comes in at, wait for it, 11th (man the pesky Liberal Netherlands is actually number 3 here---what is it about these liberal countries that seems to get it right????Just asking!!!) They note that the US is last DESPITE spending way more than other countries. Of course that is unsurprising since the health care sector in the US is a very profitable business. In fairness, it has some good things to say about the US system, but then gets real as well with the negatives.


So the conclusion....d'ya think the issue is not the liberal thinking and universal health care and fully funded health care----but in how things are actually implemented? Wait, does that harken back to what I said about the Republicans and Democrats not being able to work together to get things done right???







If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130310 - 09/01/17 05:28 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Aw, Yes John,
I understand the Universal Health Care Plan all too well. Called the Single Payer Plan. Everybody gets Health Care but nobody pays. That Plan? I under stood it when Lyndon Johnson Got Medicare passed. Senator Diane Fienstien, Senator from California of all places told the people of California she wasn't on board with the idea. But some people think it will work. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Socalisim has been tried in the Old Soviet Union, Greece Porto Rico, Venezuela, France, etc, etc, etc.

John, several years ago there were some Hospitals in Texas that had to close their doors. It seems only the illegals were using the services and of course nobody was paying. Not sure but probably some convoluted Law that requires a Hospital to serve everybody. A couple of songs I invite you to Google and listen to. CASH ON THE BARREL HEAD by The Louvin Brothers and PHILADELPHIA LAWYER by Maddox Brothers and Rose. I of course guess my posts will go in one ear and out the other but some people never learn, No?


I'm on medicare and it works beautifully. I know many people on medicare and I do not know anyone who would trade it for anything be proposed by republicans. No one is saying health care is free for everyone, so please stop spreading this lie. Single Payer system will be funded by taxes, taxes paid by ability to pay, that is fair and just. Medicare for everyone would work just as well -- In the developed countries that have universal health care, the cost per capita is roughly half of what US pays and not one of them became a totalitarian state .

I've talked to many people from Canada, France, Sweden, Norway, etc, over the years, and I always am curious for their answer to the following question: "Would you trade your country's health care system for that of the US?" So far, I have yet to hear one person from any of these countries that said yes, they all said NO, loud and clear. Usually I get a reaction like "you got to be kidding me? " etc.

Here is the fundamental concept you fail to grasp. Health care is paid for one way or the other, no matter the system. But, to explain a complicated subject in simple terms, with medicare for all, existing flow of funds that are already being spent anyway would just be redirected, and the only difference is that you won't have a middleman taking a huge chunk of the change, the insurance company costs are not part of the cost structure. And, it's a public "option", you can opt out, if you want, just as you are free to send your kids to private schools if you want and can afford it ( I'm against vouchers ).

You keep saying "it's been tried before" citing USSR, which is the wrong country. Cite Canada, France, Norway, etc if you are going to utter "it's been tried before" otherwise you
are being disingenuous. USSR failed because it's a totalitarian police state which enslaved it's citizens, a fact having nothing to do with the UHC systems implemented in the many developed countries whose health care systems, overall, surpass ours. In these countries,

I've heard the "Uh oh, universal health care is going to turn the USA into a sea of goose-stepping comrades singing the Russian National Anthem" , and , it's complete and total bullcrap." I'll make a deal with you, quit repeating this stupid and wrong idea and I will agree not to accuse republicans of trying to convert the USA into a fascist/nationalist/white supremacist state.

Deal?

But, as for free market health care, there is not even one country with a free market system that gives access to all of its citizens. The U.S. stands almost entirely alone among developed nations that lack universal health care.

The hospitals being strained along the Texas border, the vast majority of cases are injuries occurring will trying to cross the border, dehydration, broken bones falling from fences, that sort of thing.

But that argument is also a red herring, that particular problem is a border control problem, and has nothing to do with UHC how it is run in the countries that implement it successfully.





Last edited by Pat Hardy; 09/01/17 05:33 AM.
#1130311 - 09/01/17 07:24 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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,NL Canada
In Canada, health care is a provincial responsibility, they run the system by minimum standards set by the Feds, the Feds pay a percentage of the health cost care to each province, based on population I believe. The welfare system is again a provincial responsibility, no help from the Feds at all. Ray may have it right that each state should have control over welfare and health care. They are closer to what is happening and can better control abuse.

Having said that, I believe that health care should not be a profit oriented business as it is in the US. Police and fire protection is paid by government for the benefit of all, so should health care. The rich will always find a way to have better care and everything else that the average citizen can't have. But most of the rich got their wealth off the backs of the working poor, so they should be happy to keep them healthy and working for them. As it is, companies pay a fair dollar in health care insurance for their employees, those insurance companies are profit oriented, as are Doctors and hospitals. Your governments could run a better system at half the cost of your profit oriented systems with everyone having good coverage and not having to wonder how they can pay for it.

#1130312 - 09/01/17 09:38 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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John,
We do have Universal Health here in the U.S. We just don't have Universal Pay for it. The peasants voted for the OPM Pay System, Other Peoples Money. However OPM got tired of being gouged for every F**kup spending plan and OPM left the country. Now the peasants have to figure out some other way to fund their welfare. "Obama Care was such a great plan. All the young people would sign up and pay into the system and it would work. However the people that wrote the Bill also included an Employer Mandate that employers with enough employees would supply the Health Plan. Most small employers couldn't afford to pay for health insurance so they cut their employees so they could stay in business. We've been thru all this before John. but you and others still think it will work. Keep believing John. Hell, I believe in the Tooth Fairy!


Ray E. Strode
#1130313 - 09/01/17 10:06 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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So Ray you agree the real problem is in implementation. I actually think we're making some headway

And "the peasants" as you so derisively call the US voter, only votes for their representatives. It is the House and Senate that crafted and voted on the legislation

Furthermore, "the peasants" have no influence compared to Big Insurance, Big Pharma, Big Medicine etc who are the real powers behind the health care business throne because their reward is Big Money.

And lastly, why is it that it works in many other places BUT NOT in the USA??? Are other countries smarter, better organized, more caring about the health of ALL its citizens???



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130314 - 09/01/17 11:15 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Roy

In a casual conversation we would agree on a great deal. You are conservative as am I and everything that you write is laced with the self reliance of the individual. You buttress your arguments with hard realities and facts taught in the school of hard knocks. But there is a fact that I think that you're missing.

You cant leave people in the street to die. Trump said that over and over again in the campaign.

I dont know if Marie Antoinette ever actually said.. " let them eat cake" but her head was removed because that was her perceived attitude.

Another fact is that western civ has been moving towards collectivism for a couple centuries. Realization of that trend is necessary for any viable solutions. The trend is here to stay if and until the economy collapses under its weight.

To all of your liberal detractors. Money is based on work product and some kind of value. A healthcare system where people take way more than they give will drain and collapse the treasury. Money is not just an abstract idea.

And...Denmark,Switzerland,Finland,Iceland are tiny countries that can do things that the United States cant copy. Our situation is not theirs.

Im sitting in Bham Ala waiting to go home to Houston. The feds are spending a fortune on my home town. Im glad that they are but cant help but wonder how long a govt 20 tril in debt and still borrowing every year...can keep it up.

And how bad will things get if and when the treasury finally fails?

It feels like a house of cards in a building breeze.

The preceding pontification and musings are worth what you paid for them.

#1130315 - 09/01/17 11:25 AM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Um Sure John,
In the 1920's things were going real good so people borrowed small sums of money and invested it in the Stock Market expecting to make a killing and wind up on Easy Street. However the Stock Market Crashed and people were back to square one, again. move forward a few years and the big thinkers in Congress relaxed the banking rules so anybody and everybody could get a Mortgage. Hell I was dumb John, the News Media didn't report it but I heard where you could get a Mortgage and only pay the interest on the loan. Silly me, now how I asked would you ever pay it off on that plan? Well John the Ship hit the Sand and Mortgages were flying everywhere and being for closed on. So moving right along, the same people that dreamed up that fantastic mortgage plan applied the same principle to health care! So now Health Premiums are going thru the roof but those planners and movers are dragging their feet, expecting the Calvery to come over the hill just in time to save them.
Progress you say? The Calvery has been decimated John. The money went for Health Care. A lot of repairs to do in the country John. If the U.S goes broke, guess what happens to Canada, and the rest of the world.


Ray E. Strode
#1130335 - 09/01/17 05:05 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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Now you're rambling Ray. Happy to listen if you want to speak to the point


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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#1130382 - 09/03/17 01:35 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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oh well.

#1130383 - 09/03/17 01:49 PM Re: How close are we [Re: Everett Adams]  
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I haven't read all the back and forth because it appears to just be the same thoughtless pablum we find on social media.

Bernie Sanders nearly won the Dem nomination and his policies are straight up communism posing as socialism. We see how well that worked for the richest country in South America where people had to resort to breaking into the zoo to eat the animals. Socialism/Communism always fails and always brings authoritarianism to drive the remnants completely into the ground. All the violence I have seen in the various "protests" have been initiated entirely by the left. The supposed Nazi's are, in many cases, plants by our lovely US Govt Bureaucracies and people like David Duke are paid by the left to provide the straw man which they use to justify violence against innocents. The left is the entity that is killing free speech. The left is the side breaking immigration laws, picking and choosing whatever laws they want to ignore which is unAmerican and unjust. If they want to change laws, do it the right way and stop teaching our youth that lawlessness is totally okay if you simply disagree with them. Until the left MSM finally acknowledged this week that Antifa and the militarized left are the real aggressors in these clashes, they were actually not only endorsing Antifa thugs, but telling them it was okay and just to use violence against anyone you deem a Nazi, which in their case is anyone who doesn't toe the exact line they do on all issues. We see them regularly tar and feather anyone on the right as well as Libertarians with the racist and Nazi paintbrush. Of course it got so out of control that in Boston when only a tiny number of mostly prayer group types showed up on the right and thousands showed up on the left dressed like ISIS with weapons, black clothing and masks, helmets and bats, clubs, sticks, mace, bear spray, molotov cocktails, bricks, urine and feces to throw on police and because they could find obvious targets in multiple cases they randomly picked out people who either we not involved on any side or even people on their own side and beat and terrorized them instead. That finally caused the left media to acknowledge and call out the Antifa thugs. It's ironic that as usual the ad hominem attacks by the left usually turn out to be self described actions where they were the fascists, the thugs, the terrorists, the racists, the hatemongers, the free speech killers, the true evil entity.

If you do much research into the many examples of false flag attacks in the US's history, and check out the large number of researches who have thoroughly examined the very bizarre facts in the Car attack in Charlottesville which saw paid Soros actors playing protesters on BOTH sides and a great deal of questions about what really happened once you see all the footage from all sources it's clear it all wasn't what it seemed. We know that the government has been caught regularly brainwashing mentally ill people to commit crimes (it happened again recently in OK City, do a search for details on that atrocity for an example of pure evil done by our government so they could claim a victory unraveling a terrorist attack. In my view the USA were the true terrorists in that particular case. The lack of honest reporting in Charlottesville, combined with Soros money and influence and the staged and intentionally absent police who funneled the legal protesters who had a permit to be there into the armed rabid illegal protesters who should all have been arrested rather than let loose to beat and attack the people legally exercising the free speech rights. There was so much "wrong" at that event from the media, the police, the politicians, the paid protesters, and the very odd and questionable facts surrounding the car attack and it's mentally ill driver (or perhaps a false flag driver, I am really no longer sure about any of it) that it is hard explain it all without some level of conspiracy and fraud throughout.

The bottom line goal seems to be to keep people thinking there's this big divide between two halves of the country when at worst it is a small handful of nutcases, misinformed miscreants and paid thugs causing most of the grief. In truth, people get along amazingly well on all sides of all issues daily and the media defrauds us all daily of the truth.

I was against Trump but still am glad his win prevented a much worse evil from ascending to power to completely destroy what fading freedoms we have left. Both parties are morally and ethically bankrupt (and the Libertarian party is sadly no better) and now we have internet monopolies like Google/YouTube and Facebook and Twitter all aligning themselves with the hard left and racing to censor anyone who dare have a different view on any given topic. We've reached the point of "wrongthink" being grounds for elimination and complete destruction by the media, social media, the Internet gatekeepers and both parties. Meanwhile good people spend their time spewing talking points and not actually talking to their neighbors or even life long friends who have dared to think differently from the oppressive approved universal opinions espoused by those in control of everything.

We're all being played folks... and have been for many decades. Our government is evil, not because of a party or leader, but because of the ever growing collective of power uniting major corporations with the government bureaucrats who actually run everything are are not elected nor can or will they ever be fired (unless they step out of line).

All that to say, enough of this back and forth. It's all part of the planned agenda and they must be cheering from the wings each time google crawls our site.


Brian Austin Whitney
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