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#1128189 - 06/02/17 11:43 AM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 391
Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Conover, North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"A lot of them want a Polished Screen Play ready to go. I don't have it written as a screen play, they can have the pleasure of doing that if they like the story" - Ray

Hmm... I've read a couple dozen books related to directors, actors, screenplays, etc. Everyone of then used their own writers to adapt a novel to a screenplay. Many instances the directors/ producers used multiple writers. In essence, seems like a waste of time polishing a screenplay, when chances are it won't fly anyway.

"Oh, and one other thing. It is not difficult to make a small fortune in publishing. The secret is to start out with a large one"- Gavin

In other words, you're saying it takes a fortune to make a fortune. Maybe I'm reading that wrong Gavin.

John smile


Yes, it was a joke, John. I just meant that publishing is an easy way to lose money.

As for screenplays, the chances of anyone who actually has what it takes to get a movie made being interested in an unpublished story from an unrecognized writer are disappearingly small. Unless you happen to know the producer in question. As always, it's all about connections. The chances of interesting big name producers in a screenplay are about the same. There are so many screenplays churned out and launched hopefully in the general direction of the industry.
Do you know someone who makes films? It could be somebody local just graduating from film school. If so, contact him/her/them and get to know them. These kind of folks just might be interested in material for a low/no budget short film in order to build their resume or showreel.

There are screenwriting formatting programs available to help you format your screenplay professionally. I have used Celtx. It used to be free. I think the basic version still is..

#1128192 - 06/02/17 03:57 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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I agree that good connections gives the writer a better chance of success Gavin. I have a couple I plan to use & abuse. grin The bottom-line is the product itself. If it doesn't pull the readers in, it's a lost cause from the beginning.

John smile

#1128194 - 06/02/17 08:57 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Jan 2013
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Ted Martin Offline
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Ted Martin  Offline
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Oregon
In my opinion the music business has come full circle back to the days when you had to play live to make money. It has gone through many changes over the years but now if you want people to hear the songs you are writing (and have a chance at making money from them) you are going to have to either play and sing them yourself or find one or more people who will do that with you. If you can't sing or play an instrument then songwriting will most likely be nothing more than a hobby.

If you can sing and play then you need to work at being entertaining or have someone with you who is since a musician on stage is really nothing more than an actor who plays and sings. Even orchestras do better when they have a flamboyant conductor. Think Andre Rieu.

Today's musicians do have something in their favor that the early day musicians didn't. The merch table.

Here is a story of an early day musician that changed the landscape forever and showed the way.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/22/141617637/how-franz-liszt-became-the-worlds-first-rock-star

#1128196 - 06/02/17 10:11 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Ted Martin]  
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Gavin Sinclair Online content
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Gavin Sinclair  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Ted Martin
In my opinion the music business has come full circle back to the days when you had to play live to make money. It has gone through many changes over the years but now if you want people to hear the songs you are writing (and have a chance at making money from them) you are going to have to either play and sing them yourself or find one or more people who will do that with you. If you can't sing or play an instrument then songwriting will most likely be nothing more than a hobby.

If you can sing and play then you need to work at being entertaining or have someone with you who is since a musician on stage is really nothing more than an actor who plays and sings. Even orchestras do better when they have a flamboyant conductor. Think Andre Rieu.

Today's musicians do have something in their favor that the early day musicians didn't. The merch table.

Here is a story of an early day musician that changed the landscape forever and showed the way.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/22/141617637/how-franz-liszt-became-the-worlds-first-rock-star


Wise words! This about sums it up.

#1128199 - 06/03/17 02:36 AM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Ted Martin]  
Joined: Nov 2014
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Chris Erhardt Offline
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Chris Erhardt  Offline
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Originally Posted by Ted Martin
In my opinion the music business has come full circle back to the days when you had to play live to make money.


I betcha Markus Sepehrmanesh, Martin Sandberg, Linus Wiklund, Sarah Aarons, Mark Nilan, Geoff Warburton, Nathan Perez, Julian Bunetta and a few more would probably not confirm that statement. I'm not saying that it's easy to make a living as a non performing songwriter, but it's not impossible.

Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
The most recent statements just came out from BMI and ASCAP. Almost every hit writer I know has taken to Facebook to complain about what is happening. The biggest are people like Tom Douglas and Alan Shamblin, who wrote "HOUSE THAT BUILT ME", a huge break through hit from Miranda Lambert. They received 20 million streams from Spotify and Pandora and their checks were less than $1000 each.


Out of curiosity: Did they only show the statements they received for streaming? I mean, the song did sell just over 2 million copies in the U.S. which should generate them some mechanical royalties, around $182,000 total (not each). Everybody keeps saying radio is dying, yet, there are still a lot of radio stations out there and I'm sure they gave the song a few spins. Couldn't find any stats, but considering the success of the song, I'm sure this also got them around $100k. The video probably got a few spins on CMT = more royalties.

While I get where they come from, I don't think they are too bad off considering the bigger picture.


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#1128203 - 06/03/17 10:44 AM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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My brother just finished his novel - 90,000 words. Now the games begin... First the proofreading.

John smile

#1128251 - 06/05/17 08:59 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Chris, they did when they were getting mainstream radio airplay. That is not happening now, nor is physical product. The main way people are getting music to begin with is TERRESTRIAL RADIO. Has always been that way and will continue. But as that starts to fade away, streaming is the main way people will get music. The 20 million is the main figure they are using. Which is what it was last year. Overall they have done well but the amount of money even for new hit songs is declining. The money overall in the industry for everything is declining.

MAB

#1128260 - 06/06/17 07:51 AM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Chris,

One more thing. Last year there were only three artists with one million in sales of physical product. So mechanicals are disappearing too. But if you have a tour that sells tens of millions in tickets, tens of millions in merchandise, get product endorsements, etc. you will do quite well. All there is to it.

MAB

#1128276 - 06/06/17 01:17 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Nov 2014
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Chris Erhardt Offline
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Chris Erhardt  Offline
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Oh, no question about it. The industry has been shifting drastically. No one argues, that with today's legislation, songwriters couldn't make a living with just streaming. Here is to hoping that laws and regulations will catch up by the time other revenue streams disappear. However, they're not gone yet. I was just wondering for that particular example you gave, since the song did actually sell 2 Million copies in the year it was released, so I take their complain with a grain of salt. They cashed in alright when it mattered.

Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
The money overall in the industry for everything is declining. MAB


Well, that's not completely true. Someone is making money: https://www.ascap.com/press/2017/04-04-2016-financial


https://tunedly.com - Connecting you to the world's best session musicians online.

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#1128277 - 06/06/17 01:49 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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ben willis Offline
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Just wondering. Where does this leave the writers and artists who are constantly being played on broadcast oldies and classic rock radio stations. Are they still getting royalties?

#1128278 - 06/06/17 02:00 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Chris, yes. I see those. We see them all the time as members. Also members of BMI, and SESAC, We are all told how great the business is and how much money we are making. I also am around the MEMBERS who are wondering why that has not filtered to them yet.

You also have to look at other things. HOUSE THAT BUILT ME, recorded by Miranda Lambert and written By Allen Shamblin and Tom Douglas, took 13 YEARS to get out there where it was earning income like that. It was five years to write and 8 to pitch and promote. And yes it was successful. But when you think about that $100,000 plus, also think about the YEARS in between cuts. Bills they were PAYING in the mean time.
The cost of doing business. When you start splitting that between a couple of writers, a couple of publishers, spread out in payments over a couple of years, it is not the milk and honey most people think.

One of my friends who wrote an enormously successful Tim McGraw song, "Live Like You Were Dying" told me once, " A lot of people think I'm rolling in money, and I am doing well right now. But if you AMORTIZE the amount of years it took me to get here, the investment I made in my career, the overall things I have had to PAY to get where I am, I make about $6000 per year.

And that is what it is like. Many writers write for years, going through multiple publishing deals BEFORE getting some tangible success. And those are LOANS that have been loaned them against future earnings. I've known people with number one songs that have declared bankruptcy.

It is not a perfect, easily explainable business. Most people don't understand it .You should go sit with ASCAP or BMI sometime and try to get them to explain to you the FORMULAS they use to divy out money and all the reasons people aren't making the money they are supposed to be. I think it's very easy to look on the outside, read some things and make judgement calls and another thing actually living it.

After all, when people like METALICA were complaining that their music was being stolen, the general public just thought they were being spoiled rich rock stars. I'd like to see any of them work a job, take a lifetime to get there and then realize they are NOT making the money they think they are, complain and then be told they are just whiners.

MAB

#1128285 - 06/06/17 08:34 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,800
Dave Rice Offline
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Dave Rice  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,800
Texas
Forgive the Hi-Jack but I wanted to let John L. know I think it's great his brother has completed his novel. I know it is probably as difficult to get published in that medium as it is in the music biz... but I know you are proud of him. Keep us posted on his progress (or lack thereof) as the story unfolds.

All the best,

----Dave

#1128287 - 06/06/17 10:11 PM Re: The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!! [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Nov 2014
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Chris Erhardt Offline
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Chris Erhardt  Offline
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NYC/L.A.
Marc, I didn't say who is making money. I just said "someone" is making money (that's a fact based on the numbers). I'll leave it up to interpretation who "someone" is ;-)

However, fact is that some songwriters do make a decent living writing songs. I know a few of them personally. They pretty much worked their behinds off to get there, but isn't that the case for all highly desirable jobs, you actually have to WORK, invest time and money to reach the goal? Now, songwriting might not be the best paying "desirable" job, but yet, a highly desirable profession.

Last edited by Chris Erhardt; 06/06/17 10:20 PM.

https://tunedly.com - Connecting you to the world's best session musicians online.

Contact me at chris@tunedly.com
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