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#1127562 - 05/10/17 08:29 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Eh, Well, Marc, Your comments aside,
I'm not sure there are any local D.J's out there selecting songs a listener want's to hear in a local radio station anymore. So, I will ask, does anyone know of a radio station that has D.J.'s that take requests and play's them. Last I heard, you can call a radio station and request to hear something already on their "Selected Play List" but nothing else. They're making a few Vinyl LP Records again. Maybe they will bring back the 45, no?


Ray E. Strode
#1127587 - 05/11/17 08:37 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: beechnut79]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Originally Posted by beechnut79
Well, through the years, Marc, recording artists have had other sources of income while trying to make it in music. Examples: Tammy Wynette, hairdresser; John Prine, mailman; Naomi Judd, nurse.



Beechnut, An artists ability to make money has ALWAYS been determined by touring and merchandising. The difference in today and "yesteryear" is that the record companies also share in the touring and merchandise. But really is THIS that difference either?
In Elvis' case, Col. Tom Parker got half of everything Elvis earned. In the Beatles case, Brian Epstein was a principal beneficiary and the Beatles today still fight legal battles to earn back elements of their career they gave up early.

One of the things I always noticed when I first moved to Nashville is that almost nobody in the industry, particularly songwriters, ONLY derived income from the music industry. They almost all were involved with other businesses, some music related, some totally unrelated. Writers would have businesses like plumbing contractors, electricians, real estate agents, etc. This is EVEN WHEN they were on top of the charts at one particular time. Those times change and you might find yourself right back where you were before and often they had so much money invested in their music business that much of what they earned in the "big time" was spent paying back loans and draws made before they became successful. Some continued on to huge careers, but not as much as most people would think.

A majority of what I thought was going to happen eight years ago has happened. Songwriters artists, labels, publishers, make much less money because of the amount of product that is out there, a fickle public that has no intention of paying for music because they never have, streaming services that require more and more streams and pay less, etc. And even some of those services, Pandora and Spotify, for instance are also in the red in their account balances. They don't make money. We're in the era of "free music." Period. And it's not going to go back. We have to deal with that.There are many many more artists, songs, unending product. It is easy to do. Write songs record them, even in the most rudimentary way, and put them on the Internet. It put everyone into the game, and took the money out of the game. The high profile earners, top of the pyramid (and there will always be those) will find ways to keep going, most others will not.

And Ray, no there are no DJ's in mainstream radio that make the decisions anymore. That has been gone for around 20 years since the industry consolodated, people like Clear Channel took over radio. But again, this is not new. If you want to read an interesting book, find a book called HIT MEN. from the 80's It tells the story of PINK FLOYD, who at the time were on the top of the charts, and had some of the biggest records out there. They discovered the process of paying radio programmers and how all that was working and refused to participate. Their records suddenly dropped through the basement and they never received significant airplay again.

Now there is INTERNET RADIO, there are pod casts, there are secondary markets and college radio, there are other avenues, but again, due to the sheer vast amount of people trying to get INTO those avenues, there is more competition. So no, for the most part, DJ's have long stopped being the arbiters of airplay.

My overall point is what does that have to do with your writing? Unless you pony up millions of dollars and start your own label or radio station, there is not much you are going to be able to do about it. You can only control what YOU do. What you write. What you record or have recorded, the audience you accumulate through your efforts. You can complain all you want, but it really doesn't change anything.
My thoughts are on a trend I have been seeing for a long time which comes from writers who claim they are trying to get into the music business, yet spend most of their time complaining about the music business. They write songs that are frankly quite offensive to anyone who actually is doing this. And that is their right to be offensive to whomever they want. But these same people complain the loudest when they're careers go no where and they seem to not draw a correlation between their personal attitudes and their ability to go much of anywhere.

We have a similar situation going in the "Facebook world." People get online and become the nastiest, most bitter, angry people in the world in their unending rants on politics, religion, life, and yes, music. Most people spend as much time "unfriending" people as they do anything else. And now I am hearing more and more people who are inside the industry, and outside the industry, who are affected. I expect to see more and more people lose deals, records lose success and traction, artists completely dissappear due to the attitudes they are taking in public.

Beechnut, another prediction I am making now is that FACEBOOK, TWITTER are going to end more careers than Drugs and alcohol ever did.

What's the industry going to do? Have no idea. I imagine it will keep on, major labels and companies will still be out there, some people will rise to the top. And there will be a TON of people that COMPLAIN about everything about it.

If you have a historical perspective, and look at things from a little longer than just getting started the day you were born, you will see that history repeats itself and there is nothing really that new under the sun.

MAB

#1127623 - 05/12/17 08:17 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Hey guys,

Here's some possibly good news for those of you who hate modern radio. Now, it seems like I Heart Radio, the satellite radio network that bought out Clear Channel and is currently the largest radio organization, is also $20 billion in debt. So they may go out of business next year. This, along with Pandora and Spotify, are sort of the whole thing about what is going on "behind the scenes" in music and entertainment is that there are a lot of empty shell industries out there that while revolutionizing the way we get all our information, are actually going broke. Guess they can't collect on "free" either.

So maybe all radio will just fail and you guys can program whatever you want to.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ih...urvive-another-year-2017-04-21-121035436

MAB

#1127624 - 05/12/17 08:21 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Here's even more good news for some of you. If you don't like the songs that are hitting the top of the charts, don't worry. They won't be there very long. See, there is all kinds of good news if you just look for it. LOL!

http://www.billboard.com/articles/b...dio-format-programmers-frustrated-labels

#1127626 - 05/12/17 08:54 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Hi Mark:

I'll be happy to "raise a toast" to the demise of "I Heart Radio/Clear Channel" if and when they "go under!" I miss those days when real DJ's played what they thought we should hear... or what their "fans" would request by phone or snail-mail.

I'm also guessing you are 100% right about ruined careers because of inappropriate posts.

Thankfully, touring and merchandising are not on my horizon. Talk about a rat race and a quick trip to oblivion! No thanks.

Thanks for the good news. Be well and happy! ----Dave

#1127629 - 05/12/17 09:09 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Aw, Well, Humm, Marc,
As much as it hurts me, I have never been one to jump off the deep end thinking I am going to get rich. Didja read the list of latest CD's I bought on Barry's post Heaven's Radio? When Elvis came out a lot of other such type Artists began putting out records and Alan Freed had a program, can't remember the exact program playing much of it. Bascially POP/Rock music. I remember hearing a lot of them back in the 50's when the music was raw and good! Now why would I be surprised that some of these big music services are going broke? Lotta people selling Snake Oil, including some in Washington. Well, gotta hitch up the mules now. Have you listened to Mule Train lately? I recommend all those slick lawyers trying to sell me on gaming the law to Google PHILADELPHIA LAWYER by Maddox Brothers and Rose. That' al get ya. Geronimo!


Ray E. Strode
#1127815 - 05/17/17 10:27 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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From "American Idol" I can name two who became big stars: Jennifer Hudson and Kelly Clarkson. There may be a third, I believe his name is Lee DeWise, and he hailed from a Chicago suburb not far from where I live; that is why I am familiar with this name. That show may be the modern-day equivalent of what Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts was in its time; the show that produced Patsy Cline. Don't know for sure if any other well-known names came out of that show or not.

#1127816 - 05/17/17 10:30 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Your paragraph regarding Pink Floyd is eerily reminiscent of the Payola scandal of the late 1950s and early 1960s. Even Dick Clark was investigated, although it was assumed that he wasn't directly involved in any of the shenanigans himself. In its own way it was the music industry's Watergate. Yet I don't know the names of any of the key players who were taken down. Perhaps some book was written about it at some point.

#1127817 - 05/17/17 10:34 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Slightly off the topic of this thread but interesting nevertheless is that your final paragraph about nothing new under the sun brought me to the point of watching the PBS special concerning our involvement in World War I. Things were revealed on that show that we never learned in our history classes. And, if you think that the whole "Big Brother is watching you" concept is something new, think again. Even without the invasive technology we kneel at the feet of today, there was plenty of invasiveness at that time, and those who didn't partake of the mandated sacrifices to aid the war effort were totally ostracized even if not criminally prosecuted. And the country was every bit as divisive over the issue as it is today.

#1127828 - 05/17/17 02:55 PM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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It put everyone into the game, and took the money out of the game.

Now, if we could get the same result from our political establishment as well, many of us would seemingly be m ore content with their lives.

#1127831 - 05/17/17 04:53 PM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: beechnut79]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Originally Posted by beechnut79
From "American Idol" I can name two who became big stars: Jennifer Hudson and Kelly Clarkson. There may be a third, I believe his name is Lee DeWise, and he hailed from a Chicago suburb not far from where I live; that is why I am familiar with this name. That show may be the modern-day equivalent of what Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts was in its time; the show that produced Patsy Cline. Don't know for sure if any other well-known names came out of that show or not.


Lee DeWise was a JPF member and I recall him entering his CD in our Music Awards the year he was on the show, but just before, and it got eliminated early on in our process and I remember going back to listen to it to see if someone had missed something and they hadn't, it was very weak. We've had more talented members on the show, but somehow he won even though let's face it, that might have been the low point for that show and he's been the least successful winner as far as I am aware. Right place, right time. But he was never going to be a star even with that show behind him. It's why they started manipulating things especially in the early rounds (not to mention the years they flat out cheated with Paula Abdul's little boyfriend who couldn't sing a note and was removed shortly after their affair became public but I still remember them aggressively praising him even when he was complete garbage.

In the later years, it was so obviously biased and STILL they couldn't find a big success and it killed the show. Had they found more true talents, it would still be on. Simon Cowell got out before it burned down, and though the judges at the end were actually a huge improvement, the talent they were pushing through the show just sucked for the most part.

The world has changed. The eras when artists gigged for years or even decades all over the country, getting better, having real life experiences, improving their stage presence etc. are long over. There is lots and lots of raw talent out there, but corporations are neither patient nor very good at all things artistic, they only know how to squeeze every penny out of something ready to go. Now that supply is roughly a million to one over demand, there's never going to be a reason to pay these folks tons of money. It will always be powerful producers and whoever they groom in their stables going forward. It won't usually be special, but it will be well over produced.


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1127836 - 05/17/17 08:29 PM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Uh, Well, Marc,
I do have Jimmy Bowen's book, ROUGH MIX Published in 1997! Maybe I should read that thing again! I ain't complaining about the stuff that comes out today, except with my Wallet! I heard a new song by Frankie Ballard yesterday on Fox I think. His new song if I remember correctly. About as strong as Mammy Yokum is weak!


Ray E. Strode
#1127988 - 05/23/17 08:25 PM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Nice song Everett!

I agree with you for the most part, at least where commercial radio is concerned. Most of it is pretty boring, lowest common denominator stuff. However, for years now I've been listening pretty exclusively to NPR, or other public radio station like WXPN out of Philly. They truely are a breath of fresh air in the broadcasting business, and I'm pretty sure those DJs still program their own shows, especially if its a local small public radio station. I've also been listening to NPR's All Songs Considered podcast now for several years. It's a once/twice a week show and it's really turned me on to a lot of new music that otherwise I may never have discovered.


Phil Swanson
#1127990 - 05/23/17 11:49 PM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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One of the reasons most of you (should I say US, because it applies to me also) don't care for current music is because it is not from OUR time. Our tastes tend to stop expanding before we hit 30. This is an article from BMI this week that you might find interesting.

https://aeon.co/essays/why-do-your-musical-tastes-get-frozen-over-in-your-twenties

#1127992 - 05/24/17 08:14 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Good Article Marc and thanks for posting it.
Songs are So Subjective to people and that is the way it is.
Art is in the eye of the beholder. I TRY and be fair and objective but in the end for me it is the melody that grabs me first....always has and always will. Even a great story isn't enough for me without the Great Melody.

I watched the Billboard awards the other night and was mortified at the lack of melody in all the songs. Some of the women could sing but the songs were terrible and I was wondering why they couldn't find better songs....I was really dismayed at Drake singing that Rap Crap on the water in Vegas. I thought he was better than that. So Many Great Songs and Songwriters in the world and they were all singing crappy songs.....I WONDER WHY? Maybe they insist on singing songs that they wrote. I see in Country Music now ALL the new Hunks and Chicks are supposedly one of the writers on the songs. NOW In my heart I know that they probably just sat in the room with some Pros from Music Row and THEY really wrote the songs. Oh Well what can you do.....I posted a song recently on facebook where I used to play in Central Park and pretend I was a Star....Also posted another one that got a lot of comments called THE MUGGER & ME...where a guy came to mug me and after seeing I had no money and was homeless felt sorry for me and became my manager.....lol....Just a silly story but many could relate to me about this song. I have found as an OLD Singer Songwriter that I get more personal about my story and write songs about ME and tell my story I seem to be getting a lot more Fans. They like to know how I wrote a song or how I came up with the idea so I've been doing that a lot more...Story behind the song....SO that's MY STORY and I'm sticking to it....LOL...Barry...

#1128029 - 05/26/17 09:07 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Barry,

Thanks for reading and good comments. I am in Nashville doing what I do because of a phenomenon I saw happening in the 90's. I grew up with the songs of the EAGLES, RAY CHARLES, MOTOWN, CROSBY STILLS NASH, THE CALIFORNIA movement, even heavy rock of BOSTON, STYXX, KISS, and pretty much an amazing selection of music. I had a lot of music history and always studied songs of the past, THE BEATLES, STONES, etc. it was always MELODY that had me. Lyrics were an afterthought. But at that same time, I listened to JOHNNY CASH, MARTY ROBBINS, GEORGE JONES, OAK RIDGE BOYS, KENNY ROGERS and other things that were happening in country music. Actually my Band, 24 KARAT used to give me hell for listening to that "SAD OLD COUNTRY CRAP!"

The main years of our band was in the 80's, along with LOVERBOY, JOURNEY, REO SPEEDWAGON, etc. Doing original material based around that. We were quite successful for a while in the mid 80's,winning a National battle of the bands, being played on the radio, performing around the southeast. When the band broke up in 1986, I tried to bring the music forward, but the day of that type of music ended in rock and pop.
It got decidedly angrier and actually ATONAL. With the Seattle grunge movement, it was as if the pendulum swung WAY to the other side with people going AWAY from anything that had a melody. And if it had a melody it was pissed off about something. Minor chords were seemingly all anyone could play anymore. When the rap, hip hop, scene came in, with rapid fire lyrics, no melody at all, again, very angry lyrics, debasement of women, rampant sampling of existing songs, etc. that was it for me. I didn't leave rock. It left me.

At the same time, in Country, with groups like EXILE, ALABAMA, singers like Lee Greenwood, and later T. Graham Brown, Delbert McClinton, etc. it was the exact opposite. Those songs, which had always been negative and downer lyrics, turned positive. It was a party, up tempo, stage shows got bigger and more elaborate, and I was hooked. Meeting someone who had lived in Nashville for ten years and had success in the industry, pushed me to PAY him, for his experience. That is how I got to Nashville.

Now. the "ATONAL" aspect of music is everywhere. Country is far from it's pure roots. Everything sounds very similar, and the follow the leader mentality is everywhere. And much of it is not worth following in the first place. It is like the cassette days, where you would make dub after dub, with the quality diminishing with each successive generation. It doesn't help when the hit makers of today have emulated the really bad music of yesterday. Yet that is what it is.

But in my opinion, there are always breakouts. There are people who still ring true, who still grab me. In country, Maren Morris, Eric Church, Zac Brown, Chris Stapleton, and others still have that special extra. I have just been watching FOX AND FRIENDS this morning and one of my friends, PHIL VASSAR, was on for an hour performing for the USO and military people in the audience. That is where my heart is.

I can't tell you where music is going or what is going to happen in this business. In many ways, it is the BEST OF TIMES and the WORST OF TIMES. But there will always be emergence, always be people that break through. And we all will do our best to stay involved. I would not get too caught up in awards shows or the "trend of the moment." I would immerse myself in things I like, be aware of the others, don't follow the leader and try to find my own voice.

That is about all that you can do.

MAB

#1128032 - 05/26/17 09:20 AM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,822
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
I have heard, but can't confirm, that a lot of rockers, maybe from your era Marc, really liked Classic Country. For some reason, Conway Twitty, stopped playing rock and turned country. But to be perfectly fair, I am listening to DREAM DANCING on a cassette tape I recorded a lot of years ago by Ray Anthony. Easy listening music. Another artist you may want to look up and get some of his CD's.


Ray E. Strode
#1128049 - 05/26/17 03:59 PM Re: I pity today's DJs [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,830
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,830
Nashville, Tn.
Ray, most people who end up in country usually gravitate out of rock into country. But it is not usually their fault. It is that music changes around them.

When Kenny Rogers started his career from the New Christy Minstrals, he was a folk artist. Folk changed with Bob Dylan and Kenny went into rock with the FIRST EDITION. Then rock changed with the advent of the Beatles, the British invasion and then harder edge rock of people like Led Zepplin and others. So rock left him. He could not get arrested anymore in rock with the fans, so he came back as a country artist.

Same with Conway. The "crooner" pop stylings he started with, Elvis, etc. changed in the 70's and he morphed into country.

Exile, my favorite group started off as a pop band with "I want to Kiss You All Over" and then morphed to country in the 80's.

When Elvis left for the army, his fans changed. He came back in HOLLYWOOD as an actor, for several years and had to redefine himself as he and his fans changed over the years.

You can look at pretty much any artist and the process repeats as they age, and are shunned by the newer fans of whatever genre they started in.

And that is the bottom line.
Your FANS change too. If your fans no longer accept you or that type of music, you have to make the changes as well.

Fans age. They are replaced by YOUNGER FANS in the genre and so everything moves into different phases.

Part of a career. Change. The only thing in music that's constant.

MAB

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