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#1125453 - 03/15/17 06:31 PM The Art Of Rap  
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Trentb Offline
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I saw this film on cable tv a few days ago. I have never been a fan of rap, I couldn't name more than 5 rappers. I have never purchased a rap cd or downloaded or streamed a rap song. So I'm an expert on rap....lol

But I have always maintained there was skill involved, many people think there is not. You can watch the film below, but be warned, it's foul language all the way through, in fact I think the f bomb, is used more than the word...the

If that bothers you don't watch it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xpWu4_hp00M. Part 1

Part two https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zxuvsm8Kkco

Last edited by Trentb; 03/15/17 06:34 PM.
#1125454 - 03/15/17 06:46 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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MidniteBob Online content
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Raleigh, ya'll
Hey Trent,

This is from 1990..."Poppa Was a Rolling Stone"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ke0Cklp6A

Was Not Was

IMHO, the best mix of music & rap ever!!!!

Totally family friendly....

Hope ya enjoy:-)

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1125465 - 03/16/17 07:09 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Hi Trent...

The art of rap... ummm

When my Helen was in hospital, I had time alone at home, and decided to have a go at doing a hip-hop /rap song, (the lyrics only) as that is what I do.

So I spent many many hours on the net, researching the structure of rap lyrics and how they are put together from a rhyming POV.

Like you I was never a fan of hip-pop or rap, and thought that it was just spoken words that had no cohesion.

How wrong I was...lol

Having written many song lyrics over the years to different rhyming schemes, I was surprised to discover how complex rhyming schemes in rap and hip-pop can be.

As an example, a verse from mine and Jackie's Christmas song, followed by the chorus, showing my typical rhyming schemes.


verse where the last words of the lines rhyme.. in pairs

An old man on a bench, smiles at passers-by
Christmas spirit warms his heart, puts a sparkle in his eye
The snow is falling now, his son comes into sight
Sits down beside his dad, to welcome in Christmas night

chorus where all the last words rhyme...

The Magic of Christmas is a wonderful thing
Remembering the past, and the birth of a king
It's not just the gifts, tied with ribbon and string
It's family and friends and all the joy they bring
The Magic of Christmas is a wonderful thing


and a verse from the fireman, having a different scheme, but still the last words of line 2 and line 3 only need to rhyme.

His favorite toy, was a fire truck
And he knew what he wanted to be
Said mum, when I'm a man
I'll fight fires, and set people free..


Now to the hip-pop /rap rhyming schemes.


Not only do they usually have lines that rhyme with other lines, but also rhymes within lines.

verse 1 with rhymes in lines and rhymes of lines..

Sleeping in their bed, was the spider with her web
Who plied a twisted thread, that got inside his head
Looked so sweet laying there, indiscreet, she didn't care
He'd just became aware, she'd had a love affair

verse 2 with rhymes in lines and rhymes of lines..

He was out of his zone, as he left on his own
To sleep on concrete and stone, the street his new home
Was a man to avoid, his world was a void
Became unemployed, his ambition destroyed

and the rap verse in the song..

Life in a cell four by six, was a world of conflicts
Saw some give out kicks, while others joined or made cliques
He would never comply, or see eye to eye
So the years didn't fly, was a sad, lonely guy

I did find it so much harder to write the double rhyme lines, but as an excersize thought it was fun... tough but fun.

anyway, just thought that I would mention this, if anyone is interested.

here is the finished song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lBc9PM6fVs

God Bless Roy and Helen

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 03/16/17 07:12 AM.

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#1125475 - 03/16/17 10:39 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: MidniteBob]  
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Originally Posted by MidniteBob
Hey Trent, This is from 1990..."Poppa Was a Rolling Stone"... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ke0Cklp6A Was Not Was IMHO, the best mix of music & rap ever!!!! Totally family friendly.... Hope ya enjoy:-) Midnite


Thanks for the link, enjoyed that.

#1125476 - 03/16/17 10:46 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Aw,Ha!,
The first Rap Song. SMOKE, SMOKE, SMOKE, THAT CIGARETTE by Tex Williams. You heard it here first! You can Goggle it.


Ray E. Strode
#1125477 - 03/16/17 10:53 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Trentb Offline
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Originally Posted by Roy Cooper
Hi Trent... The art of rap... ummm When my Helen was in hospital, I had time alone at home, and decided to have a go at doing a hip-hop /rap song, (the lyrics only) as that is what I do. So I spent many many hours on the net, researching the structure of rap lyrics and how they are put together from a rhyming POV. Like you I was never a fan of hip-pop or rap, and thought that it was just spoken words that had no cohesion. How wrong I was...lol Having written many song lyrics over the years to different rhyming schemes, I was surprised to discover how complex rhyming schemes in rap and hip-pop can be. As an example, a verse from mine and Jackie's Christmas song, followed by the chorus, showing my typical rhyming schemes. verse where the last words of the lines rhyme.. in pairs An old man on a bench, smiles at passers-by Christmas spirit warms his heart, puts a sparkle in his eye The snow is falling now, his son comes into sight Sits down beside his dad, to welcome in Christmas night chorus where all the last words rhyme... The Magic of Christmas is a wonderful thing Remembering the past, and the birth of a king It's not just the gifts, tied with ribbon and string It's family and friends and all the joy they bring The Magic of Christmas is a wonderful thing and a verse from the fireman, having a different scheme, but still the last words of line 2 and line 3 only need to rhyme. His favorite toy, was a fire truck And he knew what he wanted to be Said mum, when I'm a man I'll fight fires, and set people free.. Now to the hip-pop /rap rhyming schemes. Not only do they usually have lines that rhyme with other lines, but also rhymes within lines. verse 1 with rhymes in lines and rhymes of lines.. Sleeping in their bed, was the spider with her web Who plied a twisted thread, that got inside his head Looked so sweet laying there, indiscreet, she didn't care He'd just became aware, she'd had a love affair verse 2 with rhymes in lines and rhymes of lines.. He was out of his zone, as he left on his own To sleep on concrete and stone, the street his new home Was a man to avoid, his world was a void Became unemployed, his ambition destroyed and the rap verse in the song.. Life in a cell four by six, was a world of conflicts Saw some give out kicks, while others joined or made cliques He would never comply, or see eye to eye So the years didn't fly, was a sad, lonely guy I did find it so much harder to write the double rhyme lines, but as an excersize thought it was fun... tough but fun. anyway, just thought that I would mention this, if anyone is interested. here is the finished song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lBc9PM6fVs God Bless Roy and Helen
Pretty darn good first attempt at rap Roy. I agree the rhyme schemes get complicated. If it was just the rhyme, I'd say anyone could grab a rhyming dictionary and work from there. And alot of the content is just like, your mama jokes, I can do this thing and you can't, I'm cool and your not, I make ladies go crazy, etc etc etc

But the thing is if you are not from that culture, you think of it as stupid. You even think two guys talking to each other in the hood sound pretty stupid too, and the way they communicate is way different than us.

it's the rhymes, but also there is musicality to it. There is rhythm to your talking, there is the sound of your voice, a lot of syncopation, and lyrically alot of alliteration, and euphemisms, and hyperbole, I mean they use the same tools as poets and songwriters use.

And then there is the cool factor. Elvis had cool too. To be able to grab a mic and get people to pay attention. Not everybody has the ability to work a crowd, if you have ever played live, you know this

And the real impressive feature is when they can free style, it's no different than improvising on an instrument. So, while I simply don't like it, I can tip my hat to the talents needed to be good at it

Eminem freestyling, make fun if you want, but not many people can do this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8ZkiRijI8g

Last edited by Trentb; 03/16/17 10:57 AM.
#1125482 - 03/16/17 02:09 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by Trentb
[quote=Roy Cooper]

Eminem freestyling, make fun if you want, but not many people can do this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8ZkiRijI8g


Glad you enjoyed "Poppa", Trent. Since you mentioned Eminem, and I have my own issues with rap, but I assume you've seen the movie 8 Mile? It gave me a whole appreciation of freestyling after watching it years ago.

I'll hafta check out the links you've dropped, because, as you say, even if one doesn't enjoy the music(?), that doesn't mean ya can't appreciate the "art" and derned hard work that goes into it.

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1125484 - 03/16/17 02:57 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: MidniteBob]  
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Raleigh, ya'll
I tried my hand at writing a rap(mild) ONCE(it's beneficial to know one's limitations) while I was living in D.C. It was early at an open-mic and a young group had just rapped their way through 3 pieces. Since I was gonna be there for a while, I grabbed a handful of napkins and wrote this out and gave it to 'em before I left.

I never made it back to that open-mic and I doubt if they ever did anything with it, but it was a fun bit o' creative energy.

the tears of the mothers turn to salt in the gutters
down among the litter of discarded glass and sneakers
spray painted epitaph no one has the last laugh
empty bed at midnight someone cries at first light
that's the price you're gonna pay when you got another deal gone down.

empty space on porch swing voices in my head ring
a limousine tomorrow weighted down with sorrow
on a ride that lasts forever to a place that holds no pity
where everyone is equal and each soul has a marker
with flowers to remember a child who once was smiling

each day is a season with no promise of a future
and the rhythm of the traffic blends with heartbeats of survivors
while the tears of the mothers turn to salt in the gutter
just around the corner where everybody knows
there's gonna be a price 'cause they got another deal goin' down.


As I said, it's beneficial to know one's limitations:-)

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1125493 - 03/16/17 08:30 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Roy Cooper Online content
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But the thing is if you are not from that culture, you think of it as stupid. You even think two guys talking to each other in the hood sound pretty stupid too, and the way they communicate is way different than us.

it's the rhymes, but also there is musicality to it. There is rhythm to your talking, there is the sound of your voice, a lot of syncopation, and lyrically alot of alliteration, and euphemisms, and hyperbole, I mean they use the same tools as poets and songwriters use.

And then there is the cool factor. Elvis had cool too. To be able to grab a mic and get people to pay attention. Not everybody has the ability to work a crowd, if you have ever played live, you know this

And the real impressive feature is when they can free style, it's no different than improvising on an instrument. So, while I simply don't like it, I can tip my hat to the talents needed to be good at it

Eminem freestyling, make fun if you want, but not many people can do this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8ZkiRijI8g[/quote]

Your so right Trent.. but it was worth the effort lol

God Bless Roy and Helen


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1125495 - 03/17/17 05:04 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Hey All,

"And the real impressive feature is when they can free style, it's no different than improvising on an instrument."

Must agree. When in a venue a few weeks back, to see the main artist and on a ciggy break, out the front, courtesy of an extension lead was a three piece band playing jazz. Up walked 2 guys and started to rap with the trio. Just instinct. So the trio went into "cool beat" mode, and the rappers stole the show. Just improvised, but they looked around the small crowd and used Q's . i.e. big earrings, skinny jeans, dude smoking a cigarette etc. and made a story out of it for the ever increasing crowd.

We caught up with them later, while they were watching the main act, which was a rock guitar virtuoso.

REAL musicians don't have boundaries. It is only the inept and the musically incompetent that use their own limitations as a means to put others down.

cheers, niteshift

#1125748 - 03/24/17 08:46 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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When rap is done well, it rivals any lyrical art form.Probably exceeds most.

But talking emphatically to a meter is not nearly as difficult as singing well up through 2 octaves (or even into 3 for Martina McBride).

Last edited by Martin Lide; 03/24/17 08:51 AM.
#1125759 - 03/24/17 04:37 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Martin Lide]  
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MidniteBob Online content
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Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
When rap is done well, it rivals any lyrical art form.Probably exceeds most.

But talking emphatically to a meter is not nearly as difficult as singing well up through 2 octaves (or even into 3 for Martina McBride).


Hey Martin,

I'll give a nod to yer point....And thanks!!....

And I will respond with apples and oranges....

Oranges first: The Oranges are those few who are blessed with the vocal abilities to hit every high or low note....That ability is something that they are born to be able to do......It is, mostly about their "range"....Very rare and special and a "gift" that most don't possess...

Apples: "Talking emphatically to a meter"....Well, that is something that any common mortal can, and should, and ARE able to do...Dylan....Subterranean Homesick Blues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGxjIBEZvx0

Not sayin' that we can all do it well...

Just sayin' that we can appreciate those who try...

Midnite





Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1125780 - 03/25/17 01:06 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Talking rhythmically to a meter is actually a skill and a natural talent versus something you are born with (a vocal range). Now, vocalists can dramatically improve control with lessons and practice etc. no doubt. But great opera singers are born. Rapping is certainly partially about having the right vocal control and inherent rhythm which many seem to be born with, but I have also known people with little natural rapping talent learn and practice and become top notch in the skill. If you aren't born with Opera range, or perfect pitch etc. you can't learn it or practice it without the built in ability you are born with.

It would be laughable to see the great opera singers attempt rapping. I highly doubt any, as disciplined as they are, could do it. Just as a top rapper is unlikely able to approach opera range. It really is Apples and Oranges and some prefer one, some prefer the other. I love them both.


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#1125789 - 03/25/17 07:24 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Lots of creativity and skill in rap music.

I'm from a generation where rock music was the peoples music, but as we grew older and entered the middle class, rap became the new peoples music in the meantime.

So I enjoy rap as cultural critique, but I don't have the skills to do it myself, not legit to do it either.. but I do appreciate it.


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#1125793 - 03/25/17 11:24 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Talking rhythmically to a meter is actually a skill and a natural talent versus something you are born with (a vocal range).


Reinforcing what has already been stated.... wink...

Preface...I have respect for good rappers. 60 minutes did a segment on M&M years ago and it was real clear that he and people like him have a very real talent with words and a mind that can store them up and improvisationally flow them out in a coherent continuous stream on demand. Marco Rubio wishes he had that depth of talent.

But...When I used to take my songwriting hobby to studios, I found that the hardest people to get what I needed from were vocalists...so, to avoid the pain...I started learning to sing myself. I don't know what my range is but it is very limited. Working within those limitations and basically singing to pitch with a little bit of stylization has taken me years and is sadly still a hopelessly lacking work in progress.

Yet, I contend that I could have become proficient at talking to a meter after a one weekend seminar.

After a little practice and technique honing over a few months my life as a White rapper would all come down to natural timbre and having or not having the "it" factor. To that extent it seems a natural talent.

Admittedly, that's the view of an uncredentialed, unschooled (in music) , never paid his musical dues and don't intend to start....amateur hobbyist internet songwriting forum lurker. (though passionate smile ) But I think it's reasonably well founded and realistic.

Martin

Last edited by Martin Lide; 03/26/17 09:01 AM.
#1125820 - 03/25/17 08:43 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Martin Lide]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Talking rhythmically to a meter is actually a skill and a natural talent versus something you are born with (a vocal range).


Beg to differ...

Preface...I have respect for good rappers. 60 minutes did a segment on M&M years ago and it was real clear that he and people like him have a very real talent with words and a mind that can store them up and improvisationally flow them out in a coherent continuous stream on demand. Marco Rubio wishes he had that depth of talent.

But...When I used to take my songwriting hobby to studios, I found that the hardest people to get what I needed from were vocalists...so, to avoid the pain...I started learning to sing myself. I don't know what my range is but it is very limited. Working within those limitations and basically singing to pitch with a little bit of stylization has taken me years and is sadly still a hopelessly lacking work in progress.

Yet, I contend that I could have become proficient at talking to a meter after a one weekend seminar.

After a little practice and technique honing over a few months my life as a White rapper would all come down to natural timbre and having or not having the "it" factor. To that extent it seems a natural talent.

Admittedly, that's the view of an uncredentialed, unschooled (in music) , never paid his musical dues and don't intend to start....amateur hobbyist internet songwriting forum lurker. (though passionate smile ) But I think it's reasonably well founded and realistic.

Martin


You said you beg to differ, then went on to agree with my point basic point, singers are born with it and rapping is a combination of skill learned and practiced along with rhythm and tonality (and as you pointed out, the ability to put strings of thoughts together on the fly, though not all rapping is spur of the moment, some top rappers are better in the studio writing out the rhymes and then riffing off of them in live performances, but I do know many who can rap instantly on any subject. For that matter I know musicians who can do the same thing, one of the best in the world at that is a friend of mine who gets hired to do improv music all over the world on the topics and events of their choice, but that's another discussion). So I don't know what else to add. Singers with great range and perfect pitch are born with it, Opera singers being the most extreme examples. Rappers, who can benefit from natural ability as well, use learned and developed skills through practice and even someone without the same natural gifts as some can learn and practice and find success that way. The skill of improv thinking and word play isn't unique to any genre (or even music for that matter) so it's a bit of a different subject.


Brian Austin Whitney
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#1125826 - 03/25/17 10:05 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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niteshift Online content
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Musicians are story tellers. Songwriters are story tellers. Rappers are story tellers. And the good ones are all highly skilled in what they do.

Who is "more skilled" ? Not one over the other I would say. The apples and oranges quote best sums it up.

cheers, niteshift

#1125836 - 03/26/17 08:58 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Martin Lide Online content
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[/quote] You said you beg to differ, then went on to agree with my point basic point, [/quote]




Ok....Please read "beg to differ" instead to say...."reinforcing what has already been stated"..... wink

Last edited by Martin Lide; 03/26/17 08:59 AM.
#1125837 - 03/26/17 11:51 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: niteshift]  
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Barry David Butler Online content
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Actually there is more protest lyrics than in Rock or Pop...

#1125843 - 03/26/17 06:46 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Martin Lide]  
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MidniteBob Online content
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Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
[/quote] You said you beg to differ, then went on to agree with my point basic point,



[/quote] ...Ok....Please read "beg to differ" instead to say...."reinforcing what has already been stated"..... wink
[/quote]

Okee-dokey....

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"...Rumor has it that someone once said that....

And I'll take the time to S'plain why I used that quote...:-)

12 years of being in Catholic schools....As a "Catholic", The Virgin Mary was without sin....

From the Gospels, when the woman, caught in adultery,was brought before Jesus and they wanted his permission to stone her, he knelt down and drew something in the dirt.

Here comes the "Catholic" silliness that a priest shared with me...

Jesus looked up, after drawing something in the dirt, and said: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

A Big Ol' rock came from the crowd and conked the woman on the head, dropping her dead....

And Jesus said: Mom! I told you to stay home!"

Sorry, ya'll....40 years later, I still get a chuckle and a life-lesson outta that old Catholic joke that a priest...One of the good ones!!!...Told me....:-)

Midnite





Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1125846 - 03/27/17 07:02 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Midnite, I had a good laugh at that one, I must try to remember that one. Of course even Mary had the original sin of Adam that everyone is born with. Good joke just the same. laugh

#1126011 - 03/30/17 01:31 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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terranceg Offline
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Opera singers work on their breathing, and diaphragmatic control daily. They study and practice for years, and continue building their sound for life, They study voice and music for years, if not decades.

They are born with the talent, and the tools, but greatness is not reached until they put in the time.

Not many pop or country or rock singers can sing like opera singers either. Doesn't devalue what those artists can do.

Why compare rap to other art forms?  Sure the entry into rap may be easier than others, not needing to learn an instrument, or understand music theory, gives you a very big head start, but one thing is one thing, another is another.

Paul McCartney can't dance like Prince, but who was asking Paul to dance?

As was said, apples and oranges.

It requires vocal talent and a sense of rhythm to rap.  It requires the ability to speak clearly and enunciate, no matter how fast the words may be coming out. It requires street cred, and an ability to resonate with people with similar surroundings.  And many aspects of rapping are inborn, great diction, and articulation, for two. If you talk like you have marbles in your mouth, you will never be a great rapper.

one other interesting thing about the film, was the explanation of how hip hop came around. The music programs were being cut in inner cities, so they had to come up with their own art form that didn't require musical instruments. They made turntables into an instrument, and started using rhymes and rhythm to create music.

Nothing to sneeze at.

Last edited by terranceg; 03/30/17 01:41 AM.
#1126424 - 04/11/17 12:40 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: terranceg]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Originally Posted by terranceg
Opera singers work on their breathing, and diaphragmatic control daily. They study and practice for years, and continue building their sound for life, They study voice and music for years, if not decades.

They are born with the talent, and the tools, but greatness is not reached until they put in the time.

Not many pop or country or rock singers can sing like opera singers either. Doesn't devalue what those artists can do.

Why compare rap to other art forms?  Sure the entry into rap may be easier than others, not needing to learn an instrument, or understand music theory, gives you a very big head start, but one thing is one thing, another is another.

Paul McCartney can't dance like Prince, but who was asking Paul to dance?

As was said, apples and oranges.

It requires vocal talent and a sense of rhythm to rap.  It requires the ability to speak clearly and enunciate, no matter how fast the words may be coming out. It requires street cred, and an ability to resonate with people with similar surroundings.  And many aspects of rapping are inborn, great diction, and articulation, for two. If you talk like you have marbles in your mouth, you will never be a great rapper.

one other interesting thing about the film, was the explanation of how hip hop came around. The music programs were being cut in inner cities, so they had to come up with their own art form that didn't require musical instruments. They made turntables into an instrument, and started using rhymes and rhythm to create music.

Nothing to sneeze at.


Keep in mind that you can't be taught perfect pitch or opera range. To reach full potential, anything takes practice, but without those types of "born with" skills (especially top end range) all the practice won't matter. Rap, on the other hand, can be approximated at a very high level including hit song success through learning and practice. "No one who is tone deaf or who has limited vocal range can simply practice their way into 5+ octave range for example. For example Springsteen won't be singing opera no matter how much he practices, perhaps contrary to your belief... which is it... oh yeah... TerranceG (any relation to Ali G?) Don't worry, it's rhetorical.


Brian Austin Whitney
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#1126493 - 04/12/17 01:05 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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#1126524 - 04/12/17 03:31 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides


You're joking right?


Brian Austin Whitney
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#1126525 - 04/12/17 03:45 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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I wrote a piece intended to be a rap, but I found I couldn't pull it off. About a third of the way through it I become Porky Pig and can't get the words out or keep the flow going. Here is the piece about the Princess and the Frog.

Frog appears in the spring, lonely now he starts to sing.
Princess hears, by the stream, misty eyes her teardrops gleam.
His lonely calls makes her heart ache, when love is blind, a risk we take.
With keen and peering eyes...the Princess at the stream he spies,
He sees her blowing chestnut hair...that waves and flows with graceful flair,
Both heart and legs at leaping pace, he cannot wait to see her face,
His appetite and hunger whets with every tiny glimpse he gets,
She walks up to the water's brink and then she stoops, to take a drink.
He stands at last with her alone but freezes fast upon a stone.
Now with a start his knees grow weak, his pounding heart won't let him speak.
He feels the aches her form creates; his eyes affixed no breath he takes.
He looks at her and wonders how a creature such as he sees now,
With graceful moves, his senses please and touch them all with gentle ease.
She rises up, and sees the frog and drops her cup down on a log.
He picks it up and kneels to fill the loving cup he caused to spill.
Still on his knees he sees her eyes so soft and fixed with mutual ties.
Growing feelings bid them touch, as hand meets hand in trembling clutch,
She kneels before him, cheek to cheek, and kisses him AT PASSION'S PEAK!
Frog transformed, the legends say, he reappeared a prince to stay,
But truth is told in history's log, of one crazy girl, and one lucky frog.

#1126549 - 04/13/17 11:20 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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niteshift Online content
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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides


You're joking right?


Brian, I think he's pulling your leg. smile .... well, I hope he is. Geez, just imagine the tone deaf folks who will now "think" they can pitch, because of an online course.

cheers, ( holding ears ) niteshift

#1126626 - 04/15/17 06:07 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: niteshift]  
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Jody Whitesides Online content
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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides


You're joking right?

You said you can't be taught Perfect Pitch. You can. This course was around long before the internet became what it is now. The guy who created it explains exactly how it works. A process that actually makes a lot of sense, but does take work and practice - just like anything else in music.

Originally Posted by niteshift
Brian, I think he's pulling your leg. smile .... well, I hope he is. Geez, just imagine the tone deaf folks who will now "think" they can pitch, because of an online course.

cheers, ( holding ears ) niteshift

I don't mean pitching crap music to music supervisors. wink


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
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#1126629 - 04/15/17 09:32 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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MidniteBob Online content
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Raleigh, ya'll
Okeedokee,

I held off before jumping in again after Jody's post...T'wasn't easy:-)

The bottom line? Everyone is right!!!

If I may?

"Perfect pitch" CAN be taught, with a whole ton of effort to those of us who were born "tone deaf"....I am one of them!

But a multi-octave-vocal-range is something that one has to be born with...My Spousal Unit has it and got her "Bachelors College Degree" by singing operas in 5 different languages...And in the process, lost of her joy in singing, because EVERY NOTE, and EVERY WORD(in the various languages) had to be perfect....

As for me? I was born tone-death and with a speech impediment...My "speech impediment"? It all came down to me hearing sounds come in through my ears, but not being able to get them right when they came out of my mouth....

Whoops, enough about me...

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1126819 - 04/21/17 11:09 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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sjames17 Offline
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Jody is correct, you CAN learn perfect pitch. There is one caveat though. Its not called perfect pitch when you learn it, its called relative pitch, when its inborn its called perfect pitch. But the end result is the same, can you indentfty this middle c? why yes, I can

I would never buy this program simply cause I dont think i need it, but it can be learned, if you'd like to become a musician's musician

There arent that many practical uses for having perfect pitch, or relative pitch.

One glaring use would be when you are at the guitar shop, and as usual, the guitars on the wall are out of tune, and you want to play it. Knowing exactly what your low E or High E, or any of the 5 strings should sound like, helps you tune it. Or having to tune a guitar anywhere when you dont have a pitch fork or tuner. Although not many people tune by ear any more anyway. its all tuners.

Perfect pitch obviously helps you sing in tune, also helps cover bands hear recordings better, so they can learn what part they need to play. I suppose it would help in a live setting, where you are asked to join a band on stage, and being able to reproduce what they are doing on the spot.

Not sure why the extreme example of being "Tone Deaf" and this course helping them, is the argument though?

Nobody tone deaf should be doing anything in music, period. This is for musicians who want to sharpen their ears, and improve themselves as musicians. Great musicians can still want to learn perfect pitch.

Nobody made the argument that talent, and range, and pitch weren't essential. The only argument made was that no matter how gifted you are, you have to work hard to be great.

The music business is filled with average, ordinarily talented people who worked their tail off...

#1126892 - 04/22/17 04:10 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: sjames17]  
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Jody Whitesides Online content
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Originally Posted by sjames17
Jody is correct, you CAN learn perfect pitch. There is one caveat though. Its not called perfect pitch when you learn it, its called relative pitch, when its inborn its called perfect pitch. But the end result is the same, can you indentfty this middle c? why yes, I can

Unfortunately this is an incorrect definition what Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch are. Perfect Pitch is also termed as Absolute Pitch, the ability to know a pitch without another reference pitch. Relative Pitch is the ability to determine the relative distance between a known pitch and another pitch.

Both can be learned. Which one is more widely taught? Relative Pitch.


Jody Whitesides
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www.jodywhitesides.com
#1126895 - 04/22/17 04:32 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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That's debatable Jody. If you learn it, you are always referencing other pitches. You cant learn to have perfect pitch no more than you can learn to have blue eyes. But you can learn to do the same exact thing somebody who has perfect pitch can do which is to identify notes

I took interval training in high school music class, those annoying tones that sound like telphone buttons. what interval is this.... ahhh a 5th?

The teacher explained she never had it, I never had it, and that only a tiny percentage of people actually do have perfect pitch, although many claim they do. its rare, but you dont learn ability, you learn how to use ability.

but you can learn to do the same thing somebody else has an easier time with, identify pitch

http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/ab/Absolute_pitch
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/20/s...may-lie-in-the-genes.html?pagewanted=all

#1126917 - Yesterday at 11:08 AM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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niteshift Online content
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Just wondering when someone with perfect pitch meets a band that has tuned up/down by a fraction. Does it drive them nuts ? smile

And what's their internal reference for A4, 435.. 440 .... 444 Hz ? I wonder if they can mentally adapt ? crazy

cheers, niteshift

#1126929 - Yesterday at 08:44 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: niteshift]  
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Originally Posted by sjames17
That's debatable Jody. If you learn it, you are always referencing other pitches. You cant learn to have perfect pitch no more than you can learn to have blue eyes. But you can learn to do the same exact thing somebody who has perfect pitch can do which is to identify notes

You can debate it all you want, there's a difference between the "color" of a pitch compared to the relative distance between notes. How do you know you can't develop Absolute Pitch/Perfect Pitch? Have you ever tried? If you have, why is it that your failure = failure for everyone?

Does it matter if someone can learn to hear pitch color, i.e. absolute pitch? Why are you so against it? I never understood why people who don't have it/develop it are so against it. Is it because they don't understand it?

Originally Posted by niteshift
Just wondering when someone with perfect pitch meets a band that has tuned up/down by a fraction. Does it drive them nuts ? smile

Put it this way, notes sound the same to someone with Absolute Pitch as they do with someone who hasn't developed it. Colors have a range of spectrum, but most blue hues are still blue hues to people that recognize colors. Its a range. Much like pitch and what frequency things are tuned to. Which means Absolute Pitch isn't like A is always 440, but rather a range around it.

As a little history to tuning, it wasn't until humans developed tuners where concert pitch actually stopped slowly getting more sharp, or rather higher in Hertz for A. Mozart's A isn't technically the same frequency A that we have today.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1126930 - Yesterday at 10:44 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Don't waste any time with Bugsey's SJames17. He's no longer with us.


Brian Austin Whitney
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Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1126933 - Yesterday at 11:33 PM Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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niteshift Online content
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Hey Jody,

Interesting about range of pitch. I had an old upright piano made in 1909. Got a piano tuner in, and I was commenting on its "full" sound. He said that was because the strings don't hold properly and are slightly "off" relative to each other even when tuned.

On the other side, similar I guess trying to pitch shift backing vocals to create harmonies... too perfect.

I like being vocally imperfect. In fact I'm so imperfect I'm a legend in my own lunchtime. smile

cheers, niteshift

#1126934 - 22 hours ago Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: niteshift]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Originally Posted by niteshift
Hey Jody,

Interesting about range of pitch. I had an old upright piano made in 1909. Got a piano tuner in, and I was commenting on its "full" sound. He said that was because the strings don't hold properly and are slightly "off" relative to each other even when tuned.

On the other side, similar I guess trying to pitch shift backing vocals to create harmonies... too perfect.

I like being vocally imperfect. In fact I'm so imperfect I'm a legend in my own lunchtime. smile

cheers, niteshift



Ha!


Brian Austin Whitney
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jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1126957 - 1 hour ago Re: The Art Of Rap [Re: Trentb]  
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couchgrouch Online content
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These are just words...be not afraid...


I first heard rap in early 1981. since then it has been my experience that rap is worthless garbage and unworthy to be called "art". I've yet to hear anything artful about it. the very best rappers write at a mediocre level. and that's being generous. without violence, sex and profanity, they would vanish. it may require skill to talk really fast, just as it requires skill to eat eighty hot dogs in sixty seconds, but that's not art. Rappers are little more than pornographic auctioneers. Those that praise rappers rarely quote their work. They can't...it's awful. I just read the review of Kendrick Lamar's new cd on AllMusic.com. AllMusic is generally trustworthy. go to the site and read the glowing review for yourself. I think they quoted one line. It's trash.

In the early nineties, Ry Cooder was interviewed by Musician magazine for an article about Robert Johnson. Ry pointed out that these days people are put on a pedestal for doing nothing. (Compared to Johnson) Nothing fits that description better than rappers.


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