Who's Online Now
27 registered members (Irwin, 9ne, couchgrouch, Gavin Sinclair, Dennis Wright, beechnut79, Dave Rice, Everett Adams, Barry David Butler, Harriet Ames, 4 invisible), and 228 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
R&M
R&M
Posts: 442
Joined: July 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Lovers, Artists, Dancers and Players
by Perry Neal Crawford. 07/25/17 07:52 PM
I Talk To Jesus.
by Perry Neal Crawford. 07/25/17 07:32 PM
Do you want to buy
by Michael LeBlanc. 07/25/17 05:20 PM
It's Not Your Fault
by Michael LeBlanc. 07/25/17 02:12 PM
Little Stevie B Prayers And Good Thoughts
by John Lawrence Schick. 07/25/17 12:11 PM
Aoife's Song
by Gavin Sinclair. 07/25/17 10:09 AM
Amazing price appreciation of my SX guitars
by meghayadav045. 07/25/17 01:49 AM
SWAMP FEVER
by Mackie H.. 07/24/17 10:03 PM
ASCAP/ Landr?
by John Lawrence Schick. 07/24/17 07:57 PM
People Who Don't Wanna Be Found
by couchgrouch. 07/24/17 06:06 PM
Joe Nichols country music story
by beechnut79. 07/24/17 12:24 PM
The Perfect Part
by beechnut79. 07/24/17 12:01 PM
Shout box
by Perry Neal Crawford. 07/24/17 11:37 AM
A Song For You
by Michael LeBlanc. 07/24/17 11:24 AM
What President do you most admire
by Michael LeBlanc. 07/24/17 11:21 AM
Am I On Your Radar
by Neil Cotton. 07/24/17 08:59 AM
Edgar
by TamsNumber4. 07/23/17 11:51 PM
Into The Mystic
by ant. 07/23/17 11:02 PM
A Name Iíll Never Divulge To You
by Neil Cotton. 07/23/17 08:57 PM
Leave It All Behind
by Nelson. 07/23/17 08:36 PM
Way Back
by Neil Cotton. 07/23/17 08:29 PM
Computers Shut Down At Midnight
by Barry David Butler. 07/23/17 05:32 PM
"The Teacher"
by Barry David Butler. 07/23/17 05:31 PM
What's On Your Spotify Playlist
by Dave Rice. 07/23/17 08:52 AM
Going To Try- Working Title
by Jen Shaner. 07/22/17 01:45 PM
How Long Do I Have
by couchgrouch. 07/22/17 12:36 PM
Does a song HAVE to have a universal theme??
by Ray E. Strode. 07/22/17 11:23 AM
The New Country (work in progress)
by Martin Lide. 07/22/17 07:42 AM
Journey 3rd rewrite
by Travis david. 07/22/17 07:31 AM
WHAT'S IN YOUR CD PLAYER ?
by Jody Whitesides. 07/21/17 03:53 PM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,103
Kevin Emmrich 10,528
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Travis david 10,105
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,731
Mike Dunbar 8,574
glynda 8,559
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,773
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,181
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,427
Joe Wrabek 6,392
ben willis 6,056
Dave Rice 6,022
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,718
Linda Sings 5,601
niteshift 5,320
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Vicarn 5,146
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,598
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,342
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
Neil Cotton 4,016
nightengale 3,964
TamsNumber4 3,922
Roy Cooper 3,880
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,752
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
beechnut79 3,187
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Harriet Ames 2,866
PopTodd 2,855
E Swartz 2,846
Nigel Quin 2,795
MidniteBob 2,604
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Nelson 2,371
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,241
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,151
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Ray Thyer 1,929
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,755
floyd jane 1,713
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,589
Cal 1,574
Rick Heenan 1,557
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,451
RogerS 1,445
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,427
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
Stan Simons 1,402
in2piano 1,397
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,372
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,300
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
GocartMoz 1,261
Janice & Bud 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
IdeaGuy 1,209
Glen King 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
PeteG 1,146
summeoyo 1,083
Gerry 1,077
BobbyJoe 1,075
joro 1,045
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
IronKnee 894
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
lane1777 764
teletwang 762
90 dB 745
tbryson 736
Andy Kemp 732
Andy K 729
Jackie444 718
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
ant 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
9ne 543
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
Pat Hardy 523
Irwin 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
Moosesong 491
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
R&M 442
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 398
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
Cecilee 376
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 351
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
pammie 279
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1125354 - 03/14/17 12:35 PM Obtaining a Compulsory License  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,708
Kristi McKeever Offline
Top 100 Poster
Kristi McKeever  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,708
USA
I'm wondering if you guys can tell me more about something I received in the mail. It's a one page certificate from the HFA agency:

a Notice of Intention to Obtain a Compulsory License for Making and Distributing Phonorecords. The Licensee is Spotify USA.

The title is the same as a lyric I wrote several years ago. I'm not aware of it ever becoming a song, but interestingly enough, this lyric was part of a "Collected Works" (of lyrics) that I sent to the Library of Congress several years ago.

I also posted it here on JPF in the Lyric Critique Forum back then.

Anyway, on this certificate, my name is listed as the copyright owner and the recording artist is someone I can google and his name comes up as a professional musician/composer.

So naturally I am curious, and go to Spotify, find the song title under his name, and play it. Very nice song, however, soon I realize it's an instrumental-only and my lyrics are not part of the song.

I know a little bit about compulsory licenses and kind of understand how it works. Seems to be standard practice, but I'm a bit perplexed as I have no idea why I am receiving this notice. confused

Anyone have any idea what I should make of it?

Thanks so much! smile

Kristi


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
#1125356 - 03/14/17 01:10 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,831
Jody Whitesides Online content
Jody Whitesides  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,831
Park City, UT, USA
They have made a mistake and you should make them aware that you're not the correct composer for that version of said title. Reason being is, they'll be collecting mechanical royalties for each stream and then eventually paying you.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1125357 - 03/14/17 01:22 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,752
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 40 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,752
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
In this case the Artist/Label/ Publisher couldn't find you and went thru the Library of Congress to obtain the license.
It is kind of mistifying if you never had a demo done or pitched the song to anyone.
You may need to request more information from the Library of Congress in case they are talking about someone else's song.

A Compulsory License issued by the Library of Congress would only be issued if a song was already Published and the Publisher refused to issue a license to someone. Once a song is published, released for public consumption, anyone can record and release the song by paying the Mechanical License. Since your song has never been published, I assume, a Compulsory License cannot be issued by the Library of Congress.


Ray E. Strode
#1125375 - 03/14/17 06:39 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,708
Kristi McKeever Offline
Top 100 Poster
Kristi McKeever  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,708
USA
Thanks Jody & Ray,

Yeah, no one I know added music to that lyric of mine.

The recording artist is a composer, so he should be getting any compensation.

So strange! The agency has contact info to address questions to too.

Kristi


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist
#1125377 - 03/14/17 07:17 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,397
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,397
PA
Originally Posted by Kristi McKeever
Thanks Jody & Ray,

Yeah, no one I know added music to that lyric of mine.

The recording artist is a composer, so he should be getting any compensation.

So strange! The agency has contact info to address questions to too.

Kristi


Hopefully it's not someone you don't know that stole your lyrics Kristi. Either way it would be interesting to hear the song in question.

Best, John smile

#1125393 - 03/15/17 08:31 AM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,264
Everett Adams Online content
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,264
,NL Canada
If your lyrics were the inspiration for the instrumental version, you should own a share of the copyright. It would work in reverse if a lyric was written to an instrumental track. I'm no lawyer but that sounds reasonable to me.

#1125415 - 03/15/17 12:46 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,831
Jody Whitesides Online content
Jody Whitesides  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,831
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
A Compulsory License issued by the Library of Congress would only be issued if a song was already Published and the Publisher refused to issue a license to someone. Once a song is published, released for public consumption, anyone can record and release the song by paying the Mechanical License. Since your song has never been published, I assume, a Compulsory License cannot be issued by the Library of Congress.

They don't always contact the publisher. I get NOIs all the time from various services via HFA and also MusicReports who have never contacted my publisher (Me). These companies generally don't contact the publisher, they just get the CL and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
If your lyrics were the inspiration for the instrumental version, you should own a share of the copyright. It would work in reverse if a lyric was written to an instrumental track. I'm no lawyer but that sounds reasonable to me.

You can't copyright a title. There's no way to prove that someone would spend their days looking thru the library of congress to find unreleased lyrics to gather inspiration. While Kristi didn't say it outright, pretty sure she meant that it was the same title for her lyrics and said composer's song (which is apparently instrumental). Thus the only similarity is the title, which can't be copyrighted. In that regard its pretty clear that a mistake has been made and needs to be corrected by telling HFA. Chances are there may be a similar issue at MusicReports for other streaming services as well.

This example is another great reason why artists need to be diligent about their business.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1125430 - 03/15/17 01:57 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,752
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 40 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,752
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Once Again,
If someone wants to record and release a copyrighted song they have to get permission form the copyright owner, either an individual or publisher if the song is assigned to a publisher. Publisher's many times join the Harry Fox Agency who can issue a Mechanical License on a request. I believe Harry Fox as well as the Library of Congress if they issue a Mechanical License require the full statutory rate. If a song has not been Published, distributed for public consumption no one can invoke a Mechanical License. If you assign your song or songs to a song library I would assume you, (As the Publisher), have given permission to distribute according to Copyright Law.


Ray E. Strode
#1125467 - 03/16/17 08:14 AM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,264
Everett Adams Online content
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,264
,NL Canada
I know you can't copyright a title, so if he only used a title, why bother getting a compulsory license at all. Just the lyrics alone would not have a chord progression or a melody but it could have inspired him to write one, making them co-owners of the song. And like you said it could be another song all together he asked the license for and Harry Fox got it mixed up. Strange, but that is not Kristi's fault.

#1125470 - 03/16/17 09:31 AM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,397
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,397
PA
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I know you can't copyright a title, so if he only used a title, why bother getting a compulsory license at all. Just the lyrics alone would not have a chord progression or a melody but it could have inspired him to write one, making them co-owners of the song. And like you said it could be another song all together he asked the license for and Harry Fox got it mixed up. Strange, but that is not Kristi's fault.


I agree with you Everett. If lyrics guided the melody, then the lyricist should be a co-writer. I do instrumentals of all my songs. I always give the lyricist equal billing and royalties.Rightfully so. Though if a composer is simply inspired by someone's lyrics, then it doesn't apply. That would be no different than being inspired by a movie, book, or person.

Best, John smile

#1125478 - 03/16/17 12:11 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,831
Jody Whitesides Online content
Jody Whitesides  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,831
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I know you can't copyright a title, so if he only used a title, why bother getting a compulsory license at all. Just the lyrics alone would not have a chord progression or a melody but it could have inspired him to write one, making them co-owners of the song. And like you said it could be another song all together he asked the license for and Harry Fox got it mixed up. Strange, but that is not Kristi's fault.

This isn't the composer looking for a license. This is a streaming service, directly named by Kristi: Spotify. They have to send out an NOI because its the law. Obviously HFA got it mixed up. No its not Kristi's fault. But she should inform HFA of the mixup. She isn't due someone else's royalties just because their songs contain the same title.

Why bother getting a compulsory license? Because the music for said song title by composer who isn't Kristi is being streamed at Spotify. That is why. Spotify owes the mechanical royalty of that song to the rightful person.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1125497 - 03/17/17 07:57 AM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,264
Everett Adams Online content
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,264
,NL Canada
How would Harry Fox even have Kristi name and lyrics in their catalogue unless she registered it with them. I have no songs with HF, I register with their Canadian counter part. It does seem like a comedy of errors on someone's part. I agree, maybe Kristi should touch base with Harry Fox to see just what is going on. It could get messy later on down the line when the rightful owner come looking for his/her royalties.

#1125519 - 03/18/17 04:10 AM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,135
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,135
Indianapolis, IN USA
Jody and Ray have it right. Perhaps Kristi should reach out, let the artist know of the screw up and offer to write a song together in honor of their unlikely path crossing. Afterall, she writes lyrics, he writes music, and at worst she could make a new friend and create a complete song together. And in the very unlikely case he somehow DID use her lyric and admitted it setting off this scenario (though I really doubt it) you'd learn that too. Any potential royalties are rightfully his, so it's the right thing to do and something good beyond just doing the right thing could come out of it.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1125661 - 03/21/17 03:27 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Kristi McKeever]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 523
Pat Hardy Offline
Top 500 Poster
Pat Hardy  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 523
Once you have a release, eventually you'll start receiving them. I think you should get some money for this, like 9 cents each copy distributed, or downloaded, but I'm not sure.
I just file them and don't give them much thought. If some artist sends me one, and it's a big hit, that's another story, but until then, it's just nickels so I don't think much of it. The two artists who have recorded my songs, I think they registered with HFA, and that's why i occasionally get them.

Last edited by pathardy; 03/21/17 03:29 PM.
#1126118 - 04/02/17 12:42 PM Re: Obtaining a Compulsory License [Re: Pat Hardy]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,708
Kristi McKeever Offline
Top 100 Poster
Kristi McKeever  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,708
USA
Well, okay, thank you all for your input and advice! smile

I emailed Harry Fox Agency as per all your suggestions here and told them of the error and itís been two weeks and I havenít heard anything back. So, there it is.

Tryin' to do the right thing. Thatís all one can do!!


A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. What a man can be,
he must be. -- Abraham Maslow, American Psychologist

Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
Thetuneman1, Joanne8, stranger, JPUMPMUSIC, Scott171
20921 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics116,756
Posts1,099,790
Members20,922
Average Posts Daily21
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"We are all millionaires, billionaires even, because right now we have today. And today is worth more than all the wealth we can imagine. So spend today wisely. Spend tomorrow wisely. Enjoy the wealth of today, and realize it is worth far more than all the money and possessions of tomorrow and beyond." -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
Chrisfabs (49)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0