Who's Online Now
25 registered members (Gavin Sinclair, couchgrouch, Dave Rice, 9ne, Irwin, Harriet Ames, Everett Adams, Deej56, 5 invisible), and 320 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Posts: 3,710
Joined: July 2010
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Diamond Garden Music
by Gavin Sinclair. 09/20/17 07:40 PM
Wintertime a Max Greco cowrite
by Nelson. 09/20/17 07:04 PM
Diamond Garden Music
by KimKondrashoff. 09/20/17 05:39 PM
The Cash Me Outside Girl
by Michael LeBlanc. 09/20/17 04:07 PM
Dancing Horses
by lane1777. 09/20/17 03:13 PM
PIECE OF MY LIFE
by Travis david. 09/20/17 03:06 PM
Okay, so how do I make money at this?
by John Lawrence Schick. 09/20/17 02:28 PM
Forage
by lane1777. 09/20/17 02:14 PM
Lord leave a message in my heart
by Travis david. 09/20/17 02:05 PM
BURNT BIBLES
by Travis david. 09/20/17 02:02 PM
I Can Kiss Your Blues Goodbye
by lane1777. 09/20/17 12:14 PM
Sheet music and chord charts
by Gavin Sinclair. 09/20/17 11:25 AM
Me to You
by Vicarn. 09/20/17 04:18 AM
Long and Hard Way to Fall
by Vicarn. 09/20/17 04:10 AM
getting gone
by Deej56. 09/20/17 12:39 AM
Lovers in the Rain
by PeteG. 09/19/17 11:10 PM
The NPR Song
by Gavin Sinclair. 09/19/17 12:48 PM
You say it's all right.I say it's so wrong
by Travis david. 09/19/17 05:56 AM
Sanitarium
by Travis david. 09/19/17 05:37 AM
Life Wish
by couchgrouch. 09/18/17 11:42 PM
I'm her new daddy now
by Travis david. 09/18/17 03:31 PM
Earth in Pain
by Pat Hardy. 09/18/17 02:18 PM
Rest in peace, Harry Dean Stanton
by DonnaMarilyn. 09/18/17 03:46 AM
Brainwashed Google Policy
by Martin Lide. 09/17/17 02:26 PM
Way Station
by Gavin Sinclair. 09/17/17 01:34 PM
Little Stevie B Prayers And Good Thoughts
by Dave Rice. 09/17/17 08:29 AM
Canadian songwriters-Thanks..
by Everett Adams. 09/17/17 06:52 AM
Most popular songs through the decades
by ben willis. 09/16/17 09:08 PM
Uncertain Departure
by Martin Lide. 09/16/17 08:50 PM
Not My Type
by 9ne. 09/16/17 11:14 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,137
Kevin Emmrich 10,528
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Travis david 10,188
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,744
Mike Dunbar 8,574
glynda 8,560
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,782
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,197
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,427
Joe Wrabek 6,400
Dave Rice 6,117
ben willis 6,063
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,718
Linda Sings 5,601
niteshift 5,320
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Vicarn 5,203
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,600
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,342
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
Neil Cotton 4,074
nightengale 3,964
TamsNumber4 3,962
Roy Cooper 3,880
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,759
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
beechnut79 3,209
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
E Swartz 2,871
Harriet Ames 2,867
PopTodd 2,864
Nigel Quin 2,798
MidniteBob 2,632
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Nelson 2,390
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,241
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,151
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Ray Thyer 1,929
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,762
floyd jane 1,713
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,590
Cal 1,574
Rick Heenan 1,559
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,451
RogerS 1,445
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,427
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
Stan Simons 1,402
in2piano 1,397
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,300
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
GocartMoz 1,261
Janice & Bud 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
IdeaGuy 1,209
Glen King 1,209
PeteG 1,178
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
summeoyo 1,083
Gerry 1,078
BobbyJoe 1,075
joro 1,045
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
IronKnee 894
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
lane1777 856
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
90 dB 745
tbryson 736
Andy K 733
Andy Kemp 732
Jackie444 720
ant 708
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
Pat Hardy 571
qbaum 570
9ne 566
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
Irwin 524
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
Moosesong 492
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
R&M 444
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 398
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
Cecilee 376
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 351
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
pammie 279
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1124154 - 02/15/17 11:19 PM Theory Question  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33
Don Bellew Offline
Casual Observer
Don Bellew  Offline
Casual Observer

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33
Ellicott City, Maryland USA
So.... I do an acoustic solo act. One of the songs I play is "Can't Buy Me Love" by The Beatles. Nice song. I like it.
Anyway, the song is in a major key yet the melody vocal follows a minor scale...same key...chords are major... melody is minor.
Playing guitar, sometimes taking a solo, I'll play in the minor of a song when the chords are in the major. It works well. My question is, Why does it work? Is there some layman's explanation as to why this works?
All opinions are welcome!
Thanks,
Don

#1124156 - 02/16/17 02:02 AM Re: Theory Question [Re: Don Bellew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,536
Barry David Butler Offline
Top 200 Poster
Barry David Butler  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,536
Sebring, Florida USA
YES...The Beatles probably landed on a space ship and do all kinds of magic with their songs.....lol

#1124157 - 02/16/17 02:58 AM Re: Theory Question [Re: Don Bellew]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
Trentb Offline
Serious Contributor
Trentb  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by Don Bellew
So.... I do an acoustic solo act. One of the songs I play is "Can't Buy Me Love" by The Beatles. Nice song. I like it.
Anyway, the song is in a major key yet the melody vocal follows a minor scale...same key...chords are major... melody is minor.
Playing guitar, sometimes taking a solo, I'll play in the minor of a song when the chords are in the major. It works well. My question is, Why does it work? Is there some layman's explanation as to why this works?
All opinions are welcome!
Thanks,
Don


Hi Don, I think it works because rock music is based on the blues. And minor notes bending up to the major is what gives the blues it's sound.

For example, if you hit a b flat note, over a g major chord, technically, the b flat would be part of the g minor chord, not the g major, but in blues this is done intentionally.

What won't work, is if you play sharp! Then you start playing a different style of music altogether!

#1124161 - 02/16/17 03:25 AM Re: Theory Question [Re: Don Bellew]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,475
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,475
PA
There can be a theoretical explanation for any combination of notes. I use a lot of dissonance in my music. Clashes with neighboring half-tones can even be used effectively, like C/Db. The stacking order of notes determine the chord name, e.g., an Eb6 chord (Eb,G,Bb,C) built on the root note C (C,Eb,G,Bb) becomes a Cm7 chord. So the bass note can alter the name of a chord. Bottom-line... if it sounds good to you, that's all that matters. No right or wrong.

John smile

#1124458 - 02/23/17 04:34 PM Re: Theory Question [Re: Don Bellew]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,844
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,844
Park City, UT, USA
You're using the relative minor to the major. Thus if the song is in G major, your singing the E minor. Both use the same notes, what changes is where the resolution lays.

That being said: Can't Buy Me Love the chorus is in E minor. The Verses are in the relative major of G major. They occasionally change to some 7th chord structures and modify the melody accordingly. Thus you're not singing a minor melody over major chords, you're singing a minor resolution over the minor part and a major resolution over the major part.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1124461 - 02/23/17 07:07 PM Re: Theory Question [Re: Don Bellew]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
Trentb Offline
Serious Contributor
Trentb  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
The relative minor might explain why it works over can't buy me love, but I think he was asking in general why minor notes work over major chords. Technically they don't, but in blues they do. Same thing with singing, it's ten times better to sing flat than sing sharp, a lot of times it gives it a blues feel, and easier fixed.

But this should explain what I was trying to articulate before
http://www.fretjam.com/minor-pentatonic-over-major-chords.html

#1124538 - 02/24/17 07:38 PM Re: Theory Question [Re: Trentb]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,844
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,844
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Trentb
The relative minor might explain why it works over can't buy me love, but I think he was asking in general why minor notes work over major chords. Technically they don't, but in blues they do. Same thing with singing, it's ten times better to sing flat than sing sharp, a lot of times it gives it a blues feel, and easier fixed.

But this should explain what I was trying to articulate before
http://www.fretjam.com/minor-pentatonic-over-major-chords.html

Trent, you really should read my whole post before responding.

If I play an E minor scale over a progression of G major, C major, D major - that's gonna work just fine. But if I play D minor over those same chords it won't. There is no "technically" to it. Either you're using the notes of the key or you're not. E minor & G major use the same notes.

As for the link suggesting to play E minor pentatonic (E, G, A, A#, B, D) over E A & B major - that's rather bizarre as this would only result in a minor 3rd (over the major 3rd of the chord) and the "blue" note of the tritone is now the A# which is way off - it doesn't resolve well at all with those notes. The "schooled" method would be playing C# minor pentatonic (C#, E, G, G#, A, B) over E A & B major. This allows for that tension of the minor 3rd to resolve to the Major 3rd. Said minor 3rd of E is the tritone from C# (AKA a passing tone, which is the true nature of blues - passing tones). The reality of this is that the ear will pull the resolutions to the E major, which is the relative major of C# minor.

As for whether anything sounds good sung flat or sharp or fixable - that's in the ear of the beholder. I'm not a fan of singing out of tune, regardless of style.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1124539 - 02/24/17 09:20 PM Re: Theory Question [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
Trentb Offline
Serious Contributor
Trentb  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
I read your post Jody, I just thought he was asking less about can't buy me love, as much as he was why minor runs work over major chords There is a "technically" because music educators have beeen teaching students forever that if the note doesn't belong in the chord, you shouldn't play it.

My example of b flat being played over a G major chord is playing the minor third, not the major third. Basically your playing B flat note, and the arrangement is playing G major chord with B major notes, the third of a G chord

Those two notes in theory clash like night and day. But blues musicians have done this since the beginning. Music teachers would say what they were doing was musically ignorant, but blues did not care, that is what made it unique, and gave it it's unique sound.

And since blues gave rise to rock, and country, and everything else, that's why it happens in rock and country too. I studied blues guitar for 2 years. You say playing a minor pentatonic over a 1-4-5 progression is "bizarre" , your saying what the opponents of blues said all along, but it's not bizarre at all.

It's what chuck berry did In Johnny b Goode and just about any tune from that era.

As for singing out of tune, everybody does it, auto tune leads people to believe nobody does, but even the best of the best sing out of tune. You saw Adelle start the song over on the Grammys cause she was singing out of tune? Especially live, better to be flat than sharp though

Last edited by Trentb; 02/24/17 09:29 PM.
#1124541 - 02/24/17 09:36 PM Re: Theory Question [Re: Don Bellew]  
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
Trentb Offline
Serious Contributor
Trentb  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 165
Chuck berry style, notice him ripping on the c note over an A major chord, and all down the line.

Nothing bizarre about it at all, this is the great Chuck Berrys style https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/chuck-berry-style-lesson/

Last edited by Trentb; 02/24/17 09:46 PM.

Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
Palmhead, POLISHJANGSTA1, segarlyrics, JaneK, Achazia
20939 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics116,923
Posts1,101,309
Members20,940
Average Posts Daily26
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"Sometimes, the best thing you can say, isn't the easiest thing" -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
Bill Robinson (73), Derek Hines (42), neoism (27)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0