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Man what awesome news. Bob Dylan won the 2016 Nobel Prize for literature

Big huge congratulations Robert Zimmerman!

maybe this will bring JPFers focus back on music instead of electioneering smile

Last edited by John Voorpostel; 10/13/16 01:51 PM.

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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Bob Dylan won the 1016 Nobel Prize for literature
That is so last millennium wink

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Big huge congratulations Robert Zimmerman!

maybe this will bring JPFers focus back on music instead of electioneering smile

Those last 2 points I will definitely raise a glass to grin

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smile was so excited about this I did not see that---correcting it now Nigel


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Way cool !

cheers, niteshift

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Got to be a joke. Right?

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Cool! One small step for songwriters.

John smile

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I'm surprised but really pleased. Thanks for sharing... and yes, it is encouraging to songwriters of all stripes!

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Couch writes better lyrics than Dylan.

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When does Bono get a nobel peace prize for literature.

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Originally Posted by Aaron Authier
When does Bono get a nobel peace prize for literature.


Bono should be given a one-way ticket to Africa.

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No comment

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Man I cannot believe some of the reaction...not only here but all over the media.

What some see as "why him!!!!???", I see as a total celebration of someone's body of work, influence, reach, impact...how many lines of Dylan's can you quote--how many complete lyrics do you know....and compare that to what you may specifically know and quote from passages in the best works of those who have won this honour....

I'm betting "you" don't remember the last 5 winners of this Nobel and their body of work without looking it up....nor would I expect you may have heard of three out of the 5 before they won. I say this because I an reasonably literate and have no idea myself.

On the other hand, I expect most people a) know Dylan is b) have heard a few of his most famous songs and c) know bits and pieces of his life.

Now is that because he is part of "pop culture"...yeah, probably---but he was already influential before the Beatles and he still is a legend.

AND I expect he has touched more lives for longer than many of the past Nobel winners.




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I am thrilled that Bob won this award.Mike

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Congratulations, Bob. You changed my life back in 81 when I first heard Highway 61 Revisited.

Thanks Jim. You have no idea how much that means to me. smile

Bono is barely mediocre as a writer. The Doors accomplished more in five years than U2 have in nearly 40. Bono should take a space shuttle to Pluto and never come back...and take his stupid sunglasses and Edge's beanie with him. An insufferable bloviator.





Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
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Now Robert George, have we finally found out who this writer is who inspired you to become a writer?


I recall we all tried to find out who it was your teacher introduced you to (that is all you would tell us) all those years ago. I have to think we guessed Dylan as a possibility, but you kept it under your vest so to speak.





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John, it's a long story but I don't recall feeling a need to keep it a secret. I was a mallrat in Salinas, Ca back in 78. An older guy who managed the arcade introduced me to The Beatles. He was a weird guy with a crazy sense of humor and was slightly anti-social.a self taught magician who was really good. Anyway, I went full on Beatlemania for nearly three years and listened to nothing else. When you read books on The Beatles, Dylan always comes up. I eventually bought a few albums , quickly followed by Beggar's Banquet, Let It Bleed, Who's Next and a flood of albums I don't think will equaled again. That's the Bazooka Joe version of my tale. smile


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
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"Bazooka Joe????

I'll toss in Archie and Jughead: "Cool".

:-)

Midnite

P.S....

I read a biography a few years ago, the name of which I've forgotten.

But it addressed why so many of the Jewish Faith were in a northern Minnesota town in the middle of nowhere.

My memory is slightly foggy, but not by much...

Turns out, they came from northern Russia and landed here. At Ellis Island, they were asked "What can you do?"

We can survive cold and we can dig.

They were given train tickets to northern Minnesota to dig for iron ore.

Me, with the last name of Gustafson, know why my ancestors ended up in Minnesota....But Mr. Zimmerman's parents? I'd always wondered...






Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

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Well done, Bob Dylan. smile

So exciting that lyrics are finally now being seen as a part of mainstream literature.

When I was doing a segment of my teacher's training at a high school in Western Australia, I used a number of lyrics in one of my English literature classes. Much to the surprise of the supervising teacher. wink

The students loved first listening to the songs (with which they were already familiar), and then exploring how and why certain lyrics had particular effects. All the kids took an active part in those classes. Their teacher was impressed. wink

I'd like to think a future winner might one day be Canada's own Leonard Cohen. wink

Donna





Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere.

Life is too important to take seriously.

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Shillue: The Nobel Prize is a ridiculous award
Oct. 14, 2016 - 5:28 - Why do we care about what some Scandinavian academics think?
http://video.foxnews.com/v/51703007...ze-is-a-ridiculous-award/?#sp=show-clips

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http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/why-bob-dylan-deserves-his-nobel-prize-w444799

Midnite

P.S. Since I'm no academic, but have the last name of Gustafson, I am only half offended by the Fox News link!


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
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For those who say a songwriter should not win, Dario Fo just died

He won the Literature Nobel in 1997

Here's what he "looked like"

Dario Fo was an Italian actor–playwright, comedian, singer, theatre director, stage designer, songwriter, painter and political campaigner of the Italian left-wing, recipient of the 1997 Nobel Prize in Literature.

In his time he was "arguably the most widely performed contemporary playwright in world theatre".


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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Man I cannot believe some of the reaction...not only here but all over the media.

What some see as "why him!!!!???", I see as a total celebration of someone's body of work, influence, reach, impact...how many lines of Dylan's can you quote--how many complete lyrics do you know....and compare that to what you may specifically know and quote from passages in the best works of those who have won this honour....

I'm betting "you" don't remember the last 5 winners of this Nobel and their body of work without looking it up....nor would I expect you may have heard of three out of the 5 before they won. I say this because I an reasonably literate and have no idea myself.

On the other hand, I expect most people a) know Dylan is b) have heard a few of his most famous songs and c) know bits and pieces of his life.

Now is that because he is part of "pop culture"...yeah, probably---but he was already influential before the Beatles and he still is a legend.

AND I expect he has touched more lives for longer than many of the past Nobel winners.




What actual positive change did Dylan have on society? (Or negative for that matter) that the Beatles didn't have to a greater degree? I'd argue that Dylan isn't even the most influential Folk singer. Woody Guthrie? Any number of 60's era Folk singers could also lay claim. It's funny because when Dylan became ultra religious for a time in his life, he was widely condemned by the left which is synonymous with the media. But now that that particular outrage has long since faded, this.

Keep in mind we're in an era where the Nobel prize has little relevance after Obama won it after doing exactly nothing except being multi-racial and being elected President. It was all hype and has proven to be one of the most fraudulent awards ever given even after the fact. Violence and racial tensions are at a high in my lifetime where things were significantly improved before he stoked the racial fires at every turn to gain more political power. The Millennials were, for the most part, past racial divide (and most still are) but the left loves to split us apart. He's done more towards division of his own people than any single American in our history. So let's preemptively give him that award. And that's not even mentioning the creation of ISIS and their minions due to terrible policy around the world that has seen them expand to 32 countries world wide. He's such a unifying figure... to Islamic Terrorists... not Americans.

This may well still be a solid program to recognize science achievements, but the Peace Prize, which gets the most attention, has removed any shine this award had. And now it seems they just want publicity. If you're talking musical contribution to the world, he is WAY down the list. If you're talking social contribution, he doesn't move the scale in any direction. If you're talking PR Stunt, well then you have it. Nobel Prize for Nobel Prize PR Stunt goes to Bob Dylan.

By the way, isn't the Nobel Prize supposed to be forward looking? Is it often given to people who have had zero relevance in their field in about 50 years? Do they do Nobel Prize career retrospectives? Just in his specific genre, Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger were miles ahead in influence and importance, albeit to one half of political thought, and would be far better choices. I think strictly from a musical point of view, nobody touches the Beatles or a myriad of others going back to Classical composers through today.

So the left pats itself on the back again... yawn.


Brian Austin Whitney
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Brian for you of all people to downplay this amazes me.

A chance for the left to pat itself on the back again?????

No doubt The Beatles were awesome, influential and touched many...but Dylan was it it BEFORE them and has LASTED LONG AFTER them...and they NEVER WROTE ANYTHING like Dylan.

Great with melodies, solid lyrics...but NOTHING like Dylan.

Woody too...he actually collected existing folk songs...

And why bring in the Peace Prize, or any of the science priozes, or the economics prize. That's like saying apples suck because you don't like the oranges that come from the same distributor....or, no, you don't like Obama winning...so suddenly the process is entirely tainted

Your argument basically boils down to...The Beatles, together for about 4 years deserve it more, and anyway, the Nobel prizes are irrelevant these days...and leftist propaganda.



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Well, at least it's a good thing that this post hasn't turned political, eh?

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Brian, I completely agree about Obama, as well as other modern awards and accolades (Jay-Z songwriter hall of fame, Run DMC Rock and Roll Hall of Fame). But if they were going to give the award to someone from the rock and roll era, it had to be Dylan. The Beatles were four people, not to mention George Martin and Geoff Emerick. Seperately, no Beatle matches Dylan. Dylan single handedly brought meaning and depth to rock. I don't even consider Dylan a folksinger so that's not even relevant. His folk days were over by '64. Plus, Seeger and Guthrie don't have the overwhelming body of work Dylan does. I honestly don't think politics had anything to do with it. Bruce Springsteen bashes Trump every day. Bob hasn't said a word to my knowledge. His classic lps like Highway 61, Blonde on Blonde, John Wesley Harding and Blood on the Tracks don't have a single political song on them. There are a few scattered here and there like Neighborhood Bully but they're rare. Dylan's forte is songs about the conscience and love songs.

Yeah, the Obama award is a head scratcher, as is the onslaught of negative propaganda by the media and Hollywood against Trump, but I think that's seperate from Dylan's award. They're just thanking Bob for a lifetime of great songs. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...just ask Bill Clinton.

Last edited by couchgrouch; 10/22/16 06:43 PM.

Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
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I watched Tony Bennett's birthday party. Dylan did a cover of once upon a time, I think he was lucky he was able to write!

Dylan became famous for his political songs, he was Bob Dylan the activist, long before he got into rock music, so he clearly benefited from his political songs.

Even bad artists make names for themselves by becoming political, it's a way to make the news and be heard.

His silence on the Trump matter is mostly because nobody asks him what he thinks any more. You say Bruce Springsteen bashes Trump every day, I recall one rolling stone article where he bashed him, and that's because he was asked.

Dont get me wrong, I dont agree with most of either of their politics, but fair is fair if somebody asks you what you think of a candidate, you are entitled to say what you think.

When people get crazy amounts of money, they all become big time liberals. They feel they were given some extraodrinary gift, and so they become happy go lucky. They no longer live amongst the real people in the world.

Dylan was more musically talented than people give him credit for, but he wasn't as musical as any Beatle. He just changed the content of lyrics from love songs to other stuff.

But politics fuled Dylan's popularity

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Springsteen endorsed Clinton and campaigned for her, which is fine and obviously didn't help at all, but it was far more than one article and I assure you that no interviewer is asking him anything he doesn't want to talk about and getting an answer from him. It was just another boring PR statement for Clinton...


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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Brian for you of all people to downplay this amazes me.

A chance for the left to pat itself on the back again?????

No doubt The Beatles were awesome, influential and touched many...but Dylan was it it BEFORE them and has LASTED LONG AFTER them...and they NEVER WROTE ANYTHING like Dylan.

Great with melodies, solid lyrics...but NOTHING like Dylan.

Woody too...he actually collected existing folk songs...

And why bring in the Peace Prize, or any of the science priozes, or the economics prize. That's like saying apples suck because you don't like the oranges that come from the same distributor....or, no, you don't like Obama winning...so suddenly the process is entirely tainted

Your argument basically boils down to...The Beatles, together for about 4 years deserve it more, and anyway, the Nobel prizes are irrelevant these days...and leftist propaganda.



John,

In all sincerity, please name what difference Dylan's music has made on the greater society, and when that difference (if you find on, I sure can't) took place? Was it contemporary? For a recent work? Usually the nobel prize for literature is given for a contemporary work. A book for example recently published. In the case of music, I can think of many contemporary artists who have had far more current impacts on people than Dylan. If you allow for career retrospective (which seems to be something inconsistent with history of the award) I would give it to Motown founder Barry Gordy first who helped make black music made by actual black artists widely accessible to all races. That, though neither recent nor forward looking, would have been far more applicable. If we're doing career retrospectives, then how about Shakespeare whose works form the basis for nearly all storytelling forms that followed? Certainly the classical composers could form a long line to get recognition before Dylan. But if you want biggest impact on Pop Culture across race, religion, nationalities etc. no one compares to the still living Paul McCartney. I didn't realize that the Nobel Literature prize had to be about Political literature? And we all know that they would never consider giving such an award to a non-leftist ideology in recent years now that the Nobel prize has been whored out to a particular political party and their sycophants.

So, please enlighten me on what actual difference Dylan's music made on society? Did it improve race relations? No. War or atrocities around the world? No. Poverty? No. Sure, it made a lot of people of a particular ideology happy (except that time that shall not be acknowledged when he went Pro-Religion and was treat like garbage by the elites on the left).

I think he has less impact on people's lives than dozens of other musicians that came before and after him but who would never be considered for a Nobel prize. It's a vapid desperate PR Stunt. Fail.


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Brian, I answered all your questions in my post. Making society better is completely irrelevant to songwriting. Dylan single handedly brought poetry and literature to pop music. Not to mention spearheading country rock and inventing sing-songwriters. He also killed Tin Pan Alley. Paul McCartney is possibly the greatest pop songwriter alive but his lyrics could never be considered literature. The ones that can exist because of Dylan. If they were gonna give the prize to a pop writer, it had to be Bob. Just be glad it wasn't Run DMC...


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It's cool that Dylan is being recognized for his work. I can get behind it a lot more than many of the other choices for Nobel Prizes...

... like when Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973.

Peace,
TC


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Originally Posted by TC Perkins
It's cool that Dylan is being recognized for his work. I can get behind it a lot more than many of the other choices for Nobel Prizes...

... like when Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973.

Peace,
TC


That was FAR more legit than Obama... Obama hadn't even been sworn in and they pre-emptively gave it to him and he sure didn't earn it later!


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Brian, with all due respect...your problem with Dylan winning the Nobel sounds more like partisan griping than a factual refutation of his achievements, which are considerable.

One of the most distasteful aspects of Hollywood SJWs are their hypocrisy. They claim to stand for inclusion...except when you disagree with them. Disagreeing with Dylan's social views (whatever they are, they're not apparent from Every Grain of Sand), doesn't erase his influence, which is enormous. Even into country and rap. Take a little advice...Let It Be.


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Ben, I didn't see your post earlier.

Dylan won the award for literature. Not being as musical at The Beatles is irrelevant to that award.

Dylan was famous for "protest" songs by '63. But there were more to them than that. Hard Rain is a wonderful lyric, visionary for that time. Is it political? What's political about it? He also recorded rock songs at the time, widely available on bootlegs. Mr. Tambourine Man was being performed in '64, one year later. What's political about that? Even Chimes of Freedom and My Back Pages are nowhere near partisan, his greatest songs from that era. By 64 he'd completely abandoned the stifling, stagnant "protest" movement. He wasn't given the award for politics. That's nonsense. Left wing bloviators like John Lennon and Springsteen (not to mention the insufferable mediocrity Bono)are always spouting their views publicly. Bruce didn't like Reagan, either. None of their opinions have ever mattered in the long run, or made them better writers. Being a good writer is no more dependant on politics than being a good plumber. Neither is "making society a better place." Those are arbitrary standards for creativity imposed by people who, frankly, don't have much creativity to express themselves.

You don't like Bob? Fine. But if they were going to give the award for literature to someone from rock and roll, they was no other choice. And it's nice they did it before he passed. He was a gracious, humble recipient.

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Ok Brian, you have placed very high standards on Bob Dylan.

Fair enough...so please enlighten us. What did the past 10 Literature Nobel winners do to make a difference to society? Tell us what they did to improve race relations, reduce wars, poverty and atriocities around the world.

While you are busy putting all that together, he was given the Nobel for "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition"...please explain how is that a publicity stunt and a fail



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Originally Posted by couchgrouch
Ben, I didn't see your post earlier.

Dylan won the award for literature. Not being as musical at The Beatles is irrelevant to that award.

Dylan was famous for "protest" songs by '63. But there were more to them than that. Hard Rain is a wonderful lyric, visionary for that time. Is it political? What's political about it? He also recorded rock songs at the time, widely available on bootlegs. Mr. Tambourine Man was being performed in '64, one year later. What's political about that? Even Chimes of Freedom and My Back Pages are nowhere near partisan, his greatest songs from that era. By 64 he'd completely abandoned the stifling, stagnant "protest" movement. He wasn't given the award for politics. That's nonsense. Left wing bloviators like John Lennon and Springsteen (not to mention the insufferable mediocrity Bono)are always spouting their views publicly. Bruce didn't like Reagan, either. None of their opinions have ever mattered in the long run, or made them better writers. Being a good writer is no more dependant on politics than being a good plumber. Neither is "making society a better place." Those are arbitrary standards for creativity imposed by people who, frankly, don't have much creativity to express themselves.

You don't like Bob? Fine. But if they were going to give the award for literature to someone from rock and roll, they was no other choice. And it's nice they did it before he passed. He was a gracious, humble recipient.


I think you might have crossed up some of the ideas. You mentioned that Bob didn't say anything about trump, as if his answer would have been any different than any other far left artists when asked if they like a republican? His answer would be more or less the same so that's not really a pass for Bob.

I mentioned the Beatles being more musical, because you mentioned that none of the Beatles alone are equal to bob. Equal in what way? I always thought literature was not songs. Song are meant to be sung, not read. I mean he rhymes at the end of lines just for songwriting purposes.

Songs are jets, they come and go fast, they are meant to be heard and felt, the lyric alone is not the thing.

Dylan was a songwriter, probably one of the best, but I think there is room for debate as to whether or not lyrics meant to be sung, are literature.

I agree with you, that just because somebody is completely different in views than ourselves, that doesn't mean they can't win an award like this, it should be based on merit. If we eliminated all far left songwriters, we'd undone top ten of all time, so I don't think that should be. Dylan, Neil Young, Paul Simon, James Taylor, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel to name a few of the cream of crop.

I find myself in the middle on most issues, I was irritated that the media was so biased against trump, yeah he's a jerk, yeah he sends his own business overseas, but now wants to make other companies stay here, yeah he's a bad example, but you never read a word about Hilliary, I was onto that a long time ago, and it bothered me.

I think that's why trump won, he worked harder on captain and people saw through the biasedness

Back to the Dylan issue, as was highlighted above, is that really, the award itself is political, forget the politics of the nominee, the award itself is political.

If Dylan had been the same great artist, but wrote pro vietnam songs, or pro Nixon songs, or pro trump songs, he wouldn't have been given the award.

If you look at the Kennedy awards, the winners are all people aligned with the presidents views, and it shouldn't be, it should be based on the music.

Bush had to pick the who because they are one of the few that didn't have political convictions.

You don't get many great artists who are not libs, even e modern pop stars are all left.

Maybe you get Ted Nugent or Sammy Hagar.

To clarify I'd say Dylan influence more singer songwriters, the Beatles influenced more pop and rock bands.

But even the Beatles and stones who are English are left in mindset. Keith Richards bashed trump too, so did Jagger. Paul McCartney is a Vegan who is an animal rights activist, and pro gay marriage, he' s way lib too

Anyway, it's still all opinion to who is most deserving. The arts are impossible to nail down, it's all subjective, I'm sure I could find as many as a million people who hate the Beatles, if I had to ability to find them. Likewise for bob or any artist.

There is no 1+1 answer when it comes to tastes
.

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Politics are irrelevant to art. 99% of Dylan's songs aren't political. Dylan singlehandedly brought poetry to lyrics. No one else can say that. No one. That's why he was awarded the prize...what he's done lyrically. That said, Id like to have seen John Lennon perform Desolation Row at the Royal Albert Hall with a guitar and harmonica. Lennon was no live performer. Neither was George or Ringo. Compare The Beatles at the Hollywood Bowl to The Bootleg Series 4 by Dylan and The Hawks. Dylan makes The Beatles sound like The Monkees. This point has been made more than once...you don't believe lyrics are literature. Fine...the Nobel committee disagreed. IF they were going to give the award to someone from the rock and roll era...it had to be Dylan. There is no one else.

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Again most of this is your opinion, there is no right and wrong answer on who blows away who.

I said there is room for debate, I didnt glaringly say lyrics are not literature.

The committe disagreed? Again you missed the point, why did they disagree? Because Dylan is an extreme leftist. Many felt he was borderline communist.

Will you acknowledge that if Dylan wrote right wing songs, he wouldnt have been awarded, and he wouldnt have been the icon that he is?

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Yet Dylan also wrote some great love songs. "I'll Be Your Baby Tonight" is probably his best known in that genre. Has been covered by many artists including Linda Ronstadt and Bernadette Peters.

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But yet artists such as Toby Keith seem to do all right with the RW fringe.

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Dylan also took on mainstream country quite nicely with his "Nashville Skyline" album, which featured a duet with the late, legendary Johnny Cash.

And when Dylan's departure comes I feel that one gigantic remembrance of him will be that he proved that it doesn't take either a pretty face or a great voice to become a legend. There will never be another, even though for a while John Prine was being billed as a possible successor. Although Prine has many great songs and I am a fan of his, he never even really came close. The comparison came in that he also has the shrill, raspy voice that Dylan did. Perhaps it was because both were heavy smokers for a long time.

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Nobody needs to sell me on Dylan's talent. I like a lot of his music, I think he is a very underrated musician, and probably the best lyricist we have had.

His voice is atrocious, but he was a good singer. On pitch, and even though he wasn't capable of doing what he wanted with his voice, he managed to get it done.

He also was a great fingerpicking guitarist. Paul Simon said that when they went on tour together, Dylan blew him away with his finger picking and he wanted to do the whole tour fingerpicking duets, but Dylan responded...nah, nobody wants to hear that stuff.

And I also realize he wrote other stuff, but there was a political vibe to Bob Dylan, and most people know him for that reason.

The point was, he became famous for political songs, that enabled him to get famous and then change pop music. And most of all he is revered and respected because of his personal beliefs.

If he was a republican, and wrote pro right wing songs, I can nearly guarantee you that the vast majority of artists he inspired, would not have let themselves be inspired by him, and probably would not like him at all. And the media wouldn't have hyped him up to his legendary status

Would you hear Neil young, or Springsteen, or James Taylor praising Dylan, if he wrote right wing songs?

That was the point, he as selected by liberal minded people.

I I'll agree that if giving the award to a singer songwriter, he probably deserves it, but I also think if he and Ted Nugent went on hunting trips, and blasted the left win, he wouldn't be the legend he became.

And probably wouldn't have been so popular. I know he pissed of a lot of dads of kids who were listening to him

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Ben, I mean no offense but I don't think you know what you're talking about. How is it a matter of opinion that Dylan's songs reached pop culture before Springsteen 's or Neil Young's? How is Mr. Tambourine Man an extreme left wing song? Or Sad Eye'd Lady of the Lowlands? He rejected the protest movement which is why an audience member called him "Judas" at the Manchester Free Trade Hall concert.

How is Ain't Talkin' a left wing song? I don't think you know what you are talking about. Calling Dylan a left wing singer because of a handful of songs in 62 and 63 is like calling Kevin Bacon and Johnny Depp horror movie actors because of Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm St.



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No chief, no offense taken. I also hope you don't take offense at me saying you have very bad reading skills.

You make arguments that are not there. For example, you just stating, how is it a matter of opinion that Dylan came before Neil young, or Bruce Springsteen....

Where did anybody say that? The Only opinion given was you when you said Dylan's box set made Lennon seem blah blah blah, that was the opinion, I said was your opinion.

It's also the opinion of peopl who voted for Dylan, that song lyrics are literature, and that he was the best out of anybody, which I stated several times, is always a matter of opinion. Music has awards, he's a musician, let him write a book and maybe we'll talk.

As a songwriter my opinion is he is worthy, but many people dislike him, for his politics, and whiter you lists songs that are political or not, doesn't change the fact that he is symbolic of a protest singer. His heroes were woodie guthrie, and Pete Seeger, two other songwriters who wrote liberal songs, it's the same ilk

As I also said, I don't think somebody's views should play into it, no more than somebody who likes to hunt or fire rifles, or somebody who is gay, and promotes gay rights, it should always come down to the music

The question is here, does it? If he was a republican he would he

But when refuting my statements, try to line them up because your comebacks are not even on the same page as to what was actually said.

Try reading Chief

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You know Ben and Brian, I get that Dylan may not be everybody's cup of tea, but to say he does not deserve this because he is an almost communist left winger selected by left wingers ...which is what both your arguments boil down to...is far more a reflection of your own biases than any kind of comment on Dylan.

I'm with Couch and the pro Hurray for Dylan side.

This is a site for songwriters...and it's sad that you both turned what should be a celebration of one of the world's most prestigious awards being awarded to a poet\lyricist\songwriter into a slam based on your own personal political views.










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Could you show me a reference as to what my political view are? The only thing I hinted at, was that I find myself in the middle on most issues.

You are another one who reads what you want to read it seems.

My questioning of the award was just a follow up to some of the points made here

I don't think when somebody receives a Grammy, that anybody respects that award, everybody knows those awards are bull hit. So why would it be way off saying this one is too?

I mean, I said I like Dylan, I praised his talent, I think he is great, would you and couch grouch stop and read before you get combative?
,

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I know this focuses on a few lines, but it is the central argument in your narratives and Brian's as well.


These are your exact words...I did read them

The committe disagreed? Again you missed the point, why did they disagree? Because Dylan is an extreme leftist. Many felt he was borderline communist.



The simple act of labeling Dylan who, at the beginning, and even later in his career (1976 Hurricane---which was about an innocent man in jail for murder--) wrote songs about what he passionately believed in, as an extreme leftists, displays your own political bias. To add a painting phrase like "many felt that he was a borderline communist" just piles that sentiment on because when you say that, you bring all the baggage that labelling someone a communist in America does, and really....Many???

As Couch pointed out, he was far more than a "protest singer". The fact that he is remembered for the ones he did write is a testament to his skills and his times---he definitely fed a generation.

But let's look at some of his more famous protest songs and what it was about them that labels him a communist by "many" and a leftist by you

1963 Freewheeling
1) Blowing in the Wind---it's a call for peace
2) Masters of War---the frenetic buildup of weapons of mass destruction
3) Oxford Town---Civil rights violations of a black university student
4) A Hard Rain's Gonna fall--antiwar and anti violence

1964 The Times They Are a Changing
5) The Times They Are a Changing-all about living in turbulant times, but does call out obstructing politicians (among writers, criticsa, mothers fathers and people in general
5) The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll--white dude kills black barmaid--sentenced to 6 months
6) With God on our Side--is it right to say God is on our side when we engage in war or violence?


Also your exact words...I read these too

Back to the Dylan issue, as was highlighted above, is that really, the award itself is political, forget the politics of the nominee, the award itself is political.


Is this fact or simply your opimion, or are you spouting back something you read somewhere? Are The Gnomes of Stockholm secretly plotting to take over the minds of man with leftist propaganda perpetuated by left leaning, or even worse, communist artists? Maybe you need to explain what you mean by "the award itself is political.







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Well saying somebody's politics played a role in them winning the ward, or insinuating that there are lots of politics in awards, is a far cry from saying that you are the opposite, and so you are saying these things because you don't like that persons views.

I don't care what his views are, but many people do. Many people refuse to listen to Neil young music, or springsteens music because of their support for the dems.

But you haven't seen me write that, I'm not throwing out records because somebody sang for a candidate they like, that is their right

I'm neither right win nor left win, I find extremes very dangerous, and I find people who vote the same party regardless of who is running to be silly.

I still contend if Dylan's career was about exposing liberals and showing support for right wingers, he wouldn't have been escalated to this status, and you would probably have not started his thread....

The great republican Bob Dylan wins Nobel prize!

I doubt you would, don't you?.

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Well,
I don't know Dylan's political views but I think he once said he didn't mean for his music to mean left wing stuff.
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Well Dylan has never been forthcoming on his views, and he had a habit of changing his views and ideas as he went along so he was hard to get a hold on. And he never answered questions directly.

We are all going by what we have read, nobody knows him, you can find conflicting points in various places.

He is consistent,y included in leftish ish, lists, but he also became born again Christian, which that religion requires you to change your stance, i.e. A liberal hippie who embrace gay people, would call it a sin if born again. He supposedly spoke against gays, which I just read that.

That kind of flies hard in the face of his civil right songs such as chimes of freedom, which some think was a tip of the hat to democratic Kennedy

He was also supposed to have endorsed Obama, I haven't seen him endorse a republican

But he also has said any idiot can write a song, maybe that was spot on!

But to say Dylan is not known as a political figure is wrong, he is.

There are politics involved in jobs, in society, in the church, in politics itself, so how can you argue that ere are no politics involved in awards

I mean there is politics involved in saying the national anthem and praying.

Of course there is politics involved in any award, that's why people with no talent can win a grammy

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Ben, what do you call a person who says something about another, but veils it in "Many people say..." and then just leaves it hanging there???

Why bring it up at all if you do not feel it is your truth?


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