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#1110234 - 07/08/16 04:34 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Jul 2006
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
If the two PRO system is broken, I still don't understand how 100% licensing fixes that. Certainly two wrongs still don't make a right?

Only two PROs? Last I checked there's four - ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, SoundExchange. Plus there's Harry Fox and Music Reports that collect for Mechanicals. So that might make for 6. Which is a whole lot compared to other countries...


Jody,

And there's more than two political parties, but for shorthand we often just say it's a "two-party system" referring to the two biggies, though technically there are several.

But honestly, I did not know of Sound Exchange and am appreciative to learn about them..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/08/16 04:37 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1110245 - 07/08/16 06:10 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
For the record! The Pro's collect royalties from Public Performances! That is mostly Radio Air Play but also Venues where live music may be played. They survey public venues on certain things and then the Venue pays a fee on the survey. I think Radio Stations also pay a yearly fee based on certain things. As I understand it the fees are pretty small.
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Don't forget TV and Internet Ray.

What John said but also, Film, Digital Radio XM/Sirius, Streaming Services, Stadiums, Amusement parks, Music Festivals, Pretty much everywhere you can hear music. Not just "mostly" traditional radio or live music.

Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
But honestly, I did not know of Sound Exchange and am appreciative to learn about them.

SoundExchange was started in order to collect for the Performers Royalty for digital broadcasts - as that's the only form of broadcast that pays this royalty in the U.S. The U.S. loses out on an insane amount of royalties for Performers due to the U.S. being 1 of about 4 countries in the world that doesn't pay out a Performers Royalty. But that is slowly changing. Because we don't pay it to foreign music performers, their respective countries don't pay our performers that royalty either. Hopefully congress will soon make it law across all forms of broadcast in the U.S., but the old school broadcasters are still fighting it tooth and nail.

HFA and Music Reports collects the Mechanical Royalty. HFA reps mainly Spotify and standard media, whereas Music Reports reps just about every other digital service.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1110270 - 07/08/16 09:33 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
At this point the DOJ is supposed to make the decision public at the end of July. Plus it still has to negotiate all this with the affected PROs (maybe SESAC & SoundExchange are not part of this, I'm waiting on an answer from my Rep about SESAC, but I'm pretty sure that SoundExchange does not fall under the old decrees). This could get settled in court. Congress may also step in to solve the issue - to which the DOJ has apparently expressed is the method they prefer. Once all of this is actually decided and done - the PROs will have one year to comply.

Literally received word about SESAC a moment ago - SESAC is not subject to this consent decree or any other decree. SoundExchange is too new to be a part of any decrees as well.

Furthermore, SESAC states this:

After the DOJ publishes its recommendations, it must discuss the recommendations with ASCAP and BMI, and have the recommendations approved by the separate federal judges that oversee ASCAP's and BMI's consent decrees. The issues being addressed by the DOJ could also be addressed in court proceedings or, alternatively, Congress could intervene with their views. Once a final decision is made, the DOJ will give the parties time to implement any required changes to licensing policies and practices.

Thus, the DOJ is not the definitive word on this. It has to go to federal judges. Not only that, Congress may intervene.

Time to rally the troops.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1110296 - 07/09/16 12:08 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Everett Adams Offline
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Everett Adams  Offline
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Radio stations pay a percentage of their advertising income (about five percent)into a fund which goes to the PROs and they pay out to copyright owners on a per song basis what value each play was worth for that quarter.

#1110390 - 07/10/16 11:01 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Everett Adams]  
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R&M Offline
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R&M  Offline
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There were bands over decades under cashbox (which count album sales) that have been displaced from the charts with bands that have sold fewer albums yet got more airplay.
I only know that from being a history buff.
But it all seems to be with what is in the mass medium who has the inside track. No matter what else may have been or better to those masses. Much as with politics.

#1115466 - 09/12/16 06:25 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: R&M]  
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David Gill Offline
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I think I'd be better off just puttin' my open guitar case out on the subway floor with a sign asking for change...

Get it?

Change?

HA! I kill me sometimes...


"Where there's a Gill, there's a way"
#1115764 - 09/17/16 05:04 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: David Gill]  
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Jody Whitesides Offline
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Park City, UT, USA
And then the Decree was decimated...

http://www.billboard.com/articles/n...t-dept-of-justices-100-percent-licensing

Y'all from BMI & ASCAP and breathe a little sigh of relief.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1116513 - 09/30/16 03:47 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
Brian Austin Whitney  Online Content


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I am still a bit confused after reading that article....

Fractional means only one writer out of all legal writers has to give permission?


Brian Austin Whitney
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#1116518 - 09/30/16 10:50 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Humm,
I do think somebody was confused about the music business. If two writer's who belong to different Pro's write a song or songs together the best advice is to have a Co-Writing Agreement so each knows what they can and cannot do with a song. A separate agreement on each song. Naturally if assigning a song to a Publisher both Writer's would have to grant permission. If the Congress had put this Bill into Law there would have been Lawsuits to no end to repeal the Law. The old Adage, If it ain't broke don't fix it most likely applies here.


Ray E. Strode
#1116575 - 10/01/16 11:01 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Texas
This "turf war" seems to be coming from a group of Federal Employees who don't understand how the music biz is structured. I get a newsletter from ASCAP nearly every day warning about this poorly thought out attempt to mismanage music.

When coupled with the distinct possibility that the U.S. is giving up control of the internet, I wonder where we (songwriters) will be in a couple of years? We also have a new lady in charge of the Library of Congress' Copyright Office.

Sometimes change is good and sometimes it causes large ripples on the "Music Pond."

Thanks, Marc and Jody for your input. I sure don't have time to keep up with all this malarkey. Being stuck with trying to decide which Presidential candidate is the most vile is bad enough. Like Ray, I hope these idiots will keep their hands off the controls. I don't think we have heard the last of this.


#1116714 - 10/03/16 06:11 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Pat Hardy  Offline
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Nothing has been more devastating to songwriters more than the digital revolution.



#1116719 - 10/03/16 09:58 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Kolstad Offline
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Kolstad  Offline
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Denmark
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I am still a bit confused after reading that article....

Fractional means only one writer out of all legal writers has to give permission?


Yes, I believe you are correct. That is also how PRS in the UK reads the DOJ.

In a report about this issue PRS writes:

--- (quote)

4. The potential impact of the Department of Justice’s proposal

PRS believes that if the US PROs are obliged to grant licenses for the whole of a work even where in reality they are mandated to represent only a share of that work, this will cause significant harm to PRS and its writer members in particular because:

- Music users will inevitably seek to license 100% of any work from the PRO to whom they pay less;

- A PRO therefore may find itself obliged to account for an unspecified share of royalties to writer or music publisher with whom it has no contractual relationship or even adequate details to be able to identify them;

- A PRO will not necessarily be able to increase fees charged to music users to compensate writers that they do not represent and therefore, even if a PRO can assess what may be due to other writers it will potentially dilute royalties that would have been due to the writers they do represent.

- A PRO may not be incentivised to continue to invest in improving its administration systems if there is no certainty that it will administer its own repertoire. The competition between the US PROs for the provision of administration services to PRS members may therefore be reduced.

- A PRO may not be incentivised to invest in enforcement activities for the rights it has been given if there is no certainty that the enforcement activity will result in a licence.

- We understand that under US law, although a joint owner of a copyright can bind others to a licence he grants, it is also possible that the joint owners agree otherwise. How will any PRO know whether such an agreement exists? For them to investigate the actual position will add significantly to their administration processes and costs.

- PRS itself will have no idea which PRO may account for royalties for any particular writer member. If it seeks to track royalties that are due from known exploitation, there will inevitably be utter confusion as to whether royalties have in fact been accounted for by the PRO contractually obliged to license it and account for royalties or some other PRO. How can PRS enforce its own contractual terms with a PRO in such circumstances?

PRS sees the Department of Justice’s proposal as fundamentally distorting the competitive market to provide services to rightsowners.

--- (end quote)

Source: https://www.justice.gov/atr/public/ascapbmi2015/ascapbmi48.pdf (page 2-3)

We currently have a copyright reform process in the EU, where similar issues have been discussed. The European Writers group are working on a transnational level to protect and improve authorship rights in the digital age of now.

For those of you who are working with this in the US, and maybe want to view the European discussions and arguments, can follow this work here http://www.europeanwriterscouncil.e...&layout=blog&id=7&Itemid=125


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