Who's Online Now
18 registered members (Fdemetrio, couchgrouch, Irwin, Dave Rice, Barry David Butler, Everett Adams, Calvin, Harriet Ames, 5 invisible), and 270 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
glynda
glynda
Princeton Texas
Posts: 8,574
Joined: July 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Are Our Ranks Shrinking?
by Fdemetrio. 05/21/18 11:05 AM
"That Empathetic Man"
by IronKnee. 05/21/18 10:30 AM
We Can't Do Without Each Other
by IronKnee. 05/21/18 10:27 AM
Sweet Lorelei
by Dave Rice. 05/21/18 08:59 AM
SUMMER OF 76
by Travis david. 05/21/18 05:05 AM
New song, looking for feedback
by Colin Ward. 05/20/18 06:28 PM
Dawn Upon the Distant Waves
by couchgrouch. 05/20/18 05:52 PM
Living
by Irwin. 05/20/18 04:51 PM
Feeling Free
by Neil Cotton. 05/20/18 02:54 PM
Another for your perusal - The Flow
by Travis david. 05/20/18 02:44 PM
Remembering Jake
by Vicarn. 05/20/18 11:42 AM
Serial Winner
by Neil Cotton. 05/20/18 11:15 AM
Worse To Have Loved & Lost?
by Deej56. 05/19/18 10:08 PM
The key
by John Lawrence Schick. 05/19/18 01:33 PM
When Worries Go Haywire
by beechnut79. 05/19/18 11:00 AM
My Only True Love
by beechnut79. 05/19/18 10:07 AM
Why Do I
by Irwin. 05/19/18 09:57 AM
That Song
by the_lyricwriter. 05/19/18 09:06 AM
Upper Big Branch Mining Disaster - WV
by E Swartz. 05/18/18 11:30 PM
My Helen passed on today - My song for her
by Roy Cooper. 05/18/18 10:26 PM
Feeling Free
by Neil Cotton. 05/18/18 11:49 AM
Shadow Self
by beechnut79. 05/18/18 11:26 AM
A Life Fully Lived
by beechnut79. 05/18/18 11:25 AM
Testosterone Is What Makes Men Men
by Barry David Butler. 05/18/18 11:16 AM
A Serial Winner
by Neil Cotton. 05/17/18 11:01 PM
PORTMEIRION. (Mike Zaneski production.Travis song)
by Travis david. 05/17/18 04:52 PM
My Colombiana
by Doug Buche. 05/17/18 03:34 PM
Green Bottles. Vic
by Vicarn. 05/17/18 03:20 PM
Unpopular Hero
by Barry David Butler. 05/17/18 11:10 AM
Good Morning Night Time
by Deej56. 05/17/18 01:06 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,446
Travis david 10,819
Kevin Emmrich 10,537
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,808
glynda 8,574
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,878
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,291
Dave Rice 6,612
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,432
Joe Wrabek 6,401
ben willis 6,092
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Vicarn 5,618
Linda Sings 5,604
niteshift 5,366
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,615
Blake Hill 4,528
Neil Cotton 4,361
Bob Cushing 4,351
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
TamsNumber4 4,024
Roy Cooper 3,988
nightengale 3,965
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,776
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
beechnut79 3,363
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
E Swartz 3,120
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
PopTodd 2,881
Harriet Ames 2,869
Nigel Quin 2,805
MidniteBob 2,706
Nelson 2,561
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,241
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,182
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
floyd jane 1,879
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,823
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,615
Cal 1,574
Rick Heenan 1,572
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,461
Tom Franz 1,452
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,428
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
Janice & Bud 1,385
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
GocartMoz 1,311
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
Ian Ferrin 1,230
PeteG 1,228
Glen King 1,212
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
summeoyo 1,085
Gerry 1,084
joro 1,077
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
lane1777 1,013
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
IronKnee 925
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
90 dB 745
tbryson 737
Andy K 734
Andy Kemp 733
ant 732
Jackie444 722
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
9ne 692
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Pat Hardy 596
Deej56 589
Shandy 589
Ria 587
Irwin 586
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
Moosesong 524
Roderic 522
BonzaiWag 513
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
R&M 452
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Cecilee 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 352
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Fdemetrio 294
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1112889 - 08/11/16 03:29 PM Small Bars - Economically Viable ?  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
niteshift Offline
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
Sydney, Australia
Hey All,

I was interested in the small bar scene in your town/city. Are there many, some or few ? And do you support them ?

Sydney used have quite a few, and provided venues for local musicians, and an interesting night life.

Then we had the introduction of pokie machines in pubs, and it was easier and cheaper for publicans to replace their stages with gambling lounges.

This lead to beer barns as the only place you could find local music, and combined with "lockout laws" which don't allow you enter a venue after midnight, to stop alchohol fueled violence, has put a serious dent in an industry which used to be worth $19 Billion per anum.

The local and state Governments tried to counter their own legislation by introducing and encouraging a Small Bar Licence, which is relatively cheap to purchase, at about $500 per yr. all up.

Problem is, it's for a maximum of 60 patrons, and you must also provide "suitable or substantial" food. Add to that, in some cases hefty rent and paying for 2x sets of 3-4 hrs live music per night, statutory taxes, levies and insurance, a licensed security guard, free iced water ( I kid you not ) and my "back of the used envelope analysis " suggests it's pretty hard going to make a buck.

The government wishes for a greater number of "small intimate venues", so I think it's well supported, but perhaps not economically viable.

There is a push to increase patron numbers to a max of 120, which I think would be much more economically viable. It's really due to the patrons, who will "pre-load", buy 1 drink if any, drink all your ice water, listen to the band, and then leave for the next venue.

So how and does it work in your city ? Is it worth the hassle and do you enjoy a small bar culture ?

cheers, niteshift


#1112895 - 08/11/16 05:12 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
niteshift Offline
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
Sydney, Australia
PS - an ancillary note, there was a local musician who wrote a song about the pokies destroying both the live music industry, and lives in general, called "Blow Up the Pokies".

Live version .... just after it was released ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4-4HRIuqMU&list=RDC4-4HRIuqMU#t=185

Studio version ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj5ztTE0zw

And then 10 yrs later with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra.... at the Opera House. I guess it takes 10 yrs for a songwriter to sway industry and government perception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZAhbhfcrhg

The line "so the trains run on time" relates to the huge influx of gaming revenue which provided for a better train service.

You'll note, that when the song was first released, the clubs wouldn't hire him, and in some cases banned him, probably because he was speaking the truth.

I had the unique privilege of seeing this song performed live to an audience of 1 1/2 ( myself and my 2 yr old son on my hip ) on a vast sound stage pre-release. Upon completion, and fade out, my son started clapping. To which he got a thank you and a very gracious bow from the performer. The song moved me very much, and as they say.... out of the mouths of babes.....

cheers, niteshift

#1112899 - 08/11/16 05:37 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,191
Michael LeBlanc Offline
Top 10 Poster
Michael LeBlanc  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,191
Louisiana
hey Geoff,i used to be in the amusement biz,we'd set up those small and pretty big clubs with poker machines,juke boxes,pool tables and video games.Worked it about 8 years but as far as going to a bar and sit and drink,NO,i don't do that anymore.I can't afford a d.u.i. and i don't trust other drunks driving me home.Besides i think bars are mostly for singles,divorcee's and cheaters so that leaves me out.But i did my time in them in my early years.

#1112903 - 08/11/16 05:49 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
niteshift Offline
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
Sydney, Australia
Thanks for your input Mike,

Really appreciate it.

Yep, I know them ones, been in a few myself.

Would you go to a bar with live music and a high level of service ?

cheers, niteshift

#1112906 - 08/11/16 06:25 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,191
Michael LeBlanc Offline
Top 10 Poster
Michael LeBlanc  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,191
Louisiana
i'd take in a good band every now and then.High level of service is hard to come by over here,usually it's one barkeep between a bar full of drunks so you have to wait a bit for a drink,always order doubles!Fancy bars/lounges,i'm not in to that scene,i'm a laid back country boy who likes his jeans.And if the band is playing top 40 then count me out.I guess the venue i like most around here would be The House Of Blues or Tipitina's in New Orleans,small places with descent bands.

#1112910 - 08/11/16 06:37 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,657
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,657
PA
Great song and quite a talent he is Nite! There all good, but I like the Sydney Symphony Orchestra one the most.

Best, John smile

#1112918 - 08/11/16 08:19 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,578
Wyman Lloyd Offline
Wyman Lloyd  Offline

Top 30 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,578
Missouri
I'd think a small bar would find it tough going here. There's some fair sized restaurant-eating places that serve drinks or have a bar and would be stiff competition I'd think. That and there
are some well establshed small bars here already
We're only a city of 20 some thousand though and probably not a very good example

#1112919 - 08/11/16 09:12 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: Wyman Lloyd]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
niteshift Offline
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
Sydney, Australia
Hey Mike,

Understand what you're saying. When I used to play, then it was hot sweat and dirty and full on. And then afterwards, a nice dive bar, with smoke filled rooms and a relaxed vibe.

In between all of that, I used to go sit in the fancy bars of the best hotels.... why ?, because always appreciated the piano player, being one myself. It took me to another world.

I was sort of known as a rough guy, but could sit there and appreciate the music. One well known player, whilst playing, asked me to play one night. I had all the rock chops, but only knew one song suitable for the venue.

So, I played it. It went Ok, and then this great player invited me over to his place, and taught me how to play the blues .

Why ? Perhaps he saw I was interested, in both his own playing and my own.

So, I played, and we talked about music in general. His words were "you play for an AUDIANCE and that's your main concern. You don't do it for YOU, you do it for the audience in which you play for. If you're a real musician, you can wing it anywhere. Great advice.

Hey John, yeah pretty cool being a "banned person" 10 yrs previous, and then playing with the Symphonic is something. I knew the arranger would come out in you. smile

Hey Wy, yep I understand the small town mentality, and that has come from a previous isolation. With folks doing what they're doing these days, I'd bet if you looked around your town, there's be some fine musicians just looking for somewhere to play at a venue near you.

cheers, niteshift

#1112927 - 08/12/16 01:02 AM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,878
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline

Top 25 Poster

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,878
Saint Petersburg. FL
There are a lot of small bars here in the St. Pete area. My friend's is a "listening room" aimed at real music lovers. He does OK as long as there are butts in seats which is mostly dependent on the music and how it draws. The musicians don't get paid much - usually on the weekends they get the door and during the week they get tips and a small paycheck. His place holds 100 but a lot of the time, he has less than 60. He doesn't have a security guard but he does have a soundman/woman and someone at the door when there is a cover charge. It's tough to make a living.

The other bar I am familiar with is a tiki hut on the beach. It holds about 60 and stays busy with tourists (been there a long time). They have a band every night and people keep coming for blues night on Mondays or bluegrass on Sunday, etc. I think it's a goldmine but depends heavily on location and moving a lot of booze.

We also have a lot of small breweries (about 15 or more in the county). They are very popular with the craft beer crowd. Some have music, others not. I think the market is close to saturation but people spend a lot on a good home made beer.

I don't know what a pokie is but it sounds like a slot machine and we basically don't have those except on Indian reservations and in Las Vegas. Laws about the hours a place can stay open, etc. are not a big factor as long as it is the same everywhere (and you can't drive 5 miles to another town and get around them).

I think the bar/restaurant business is very difficult because the barrier to entry is low and everybody thinks he can open one and make a killing. 50% don't make it a year.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1113025 - 08/13/16 06:12 AM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
niteshift Offline
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
Sydney, Australia
Hey Colin,

That's some great info and advice. Thanks mate !

cheers, niteshift


#1113026 - 08/13/16 07:33 AM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,618
Vicarn Offline
Top 50 Poster
Vicarn  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,618
UK
Every bar here is a small bar and a struggling bar. Most local musicians sing and play for fun or free beer.

Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.
http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold
#1113035 - 08/13/16 11:37 AM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 745
90 dB Offline
Top 500 Poster
90 dB  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 745
Florida
We live in the country, so most of the bars around here are redneck beer bars. Live music? Why should the bar owner pay a band when they can get a karaoke jock for 1/3 the price? Karaoke killed live music around here, and I don't think that will change.

When we lived in Miami, there were dozens of places to play, but even with fewer places to play, we prefer the country.

As for the viability of small bars in a big city or college town, sure. Here in the Sticks, not so much.


Regards,

Bob

#1113495 - 08/18/16 02:13 PM Re: Small Bars - Economically Viable ? [Re: 90 dB]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
niteshift Offline
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,366
Sydney, Australia
Hey Vic and Bob,

Thanks for the comments guys.

Heck ! From one side of the globe to the other, it all sounds a bit dismal. frown

Damn shame, as in my day, that's where you learned your chops, and if you weren't half bad and could attract a crowd, then you moved on to bigger venues, and the top guys went on to play nationally and internationally.

Is there even a career path anymore for those who are serious ?

Maybe it's "I got discovered on Utube " grin

cheers, niteshift


Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
Ijyae259, stikmstr, plcorange, burningman, erictrent2147
21032 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics117,956
Posts1,111,356
Members21,032
Average Posts Daily32
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"Our enemies may not be who we think they are. They are not Major Label monopolies. The world will always have 'majors.' They are not big corporations who own everything. The world will always have 'big' ones. Our enemies are not the loud mouthed critics telling us we will fail. The world will always have those too. Our most dangerous enemy is our own quiet acceptance of the fate we perceive these entities have mapped out for us. The only danger is our own complacency, or inactivity, and our willingness to believe so called experts who tell us we 'can't' and that our grim fate is inevitable." -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
Ande Rasmussen (2018), Jill Sansores/JPJill (42), RumOnIce (51)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0