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#1111058 - 07/20/16 11:11 AM SELLING OUT!!!YES  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
We always hear the term "Selling out" used in negative terms for creative people. The actual POINT of being IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS in the first place, is to SELL OUT! Your shows, your merchandise, your music, etc. Without "SELLING" you cannot hope to stay relevant in the "MUSIC BUSINESS!"

"ALTERNATIVE" and "INDIE" bands and artists were always the one's most resistant to "SELLING OUT." They were there to "give it to the man!" and "fight the power". The new era of the music industry, as in most of life, is dawning on everyone that if you don't monetize what you do, you will never HAVE any power to "give to the man." And in many cases, those out in left field musicians, artists, promoters, labels, etc. BECOME THE MAN!

An area they are doing now is COMMERCIALS. Indie and Alt Rock ads are selling Soda, watches, cars, and many other products, and introducing people to their music VIA the EVIL COMMERCIAL WAYS.
Finding it easier to "stick it to the man" if you speak the "man's language" and sometimes you can get "the MAN" to PAY FOR IT!!! LOL!
An interesting article on that.



#1111061 - 07/20/16 11:57 AM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: May 2001
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Aw, Humm,
So you say. SO, what was the biggest sellout of all time? Maybe it was when Hank Thompson introduced drums into country music? Or it was when Johnny Cash put a paper on his guitar because he wasn't allowed to use drums, maybe at the Opry. Or maybe when Ray Price recorded a lot of pop songs. Hell I tried to get some to record my songs by offering a free mechanical license! Elvis, who started out pure country went Rock. Yeah, he "Sold Out".

As long as you are making some music that people like, YOU AIN'T SELLING OUT! If you can't write, play, sing, you may be selling out. But who's listening?

Ray E. Strode
#1111070 - 07/20/16 01:39 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Michael LeBlanc Online content
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Michael LeBlanc  Online Content
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i like to refer to it as "buying in".

#1111071 - 07/20/16 01:50 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Sorry, forgot that Ray Charles recorded a couple of Country Albums. Damn those sellouts!

Ray E. Strode
#1111147 - 07/21/16 11:56 AM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Yeah Ray. He sort of did that. Have a kind of fun story for you. Being from Georgia, you might like this.

I had to put this story together over decades, because I remember parts of it, but most had to find out later. I was three years old, and my family lived in Atlanta Ga. My Dad, who had been a Gospel Quartet singer in the 50's and beginning of the 60's, was working for Lockeed, the Airplane defense contractor.
One night we all went out with several of his clients to a very exclusive "Supper Club". This was the old days, where you got all dressed up, formals, etc. And went to a dinner and a show.

The place was (talk about politically incorrect)called "Aunt Fannie's Cabin" and was a converted slave plantation that was very famous. It served all this great food and was THE place to be in the 60's. Now it would be burned down. LOL!
They would have this sort of amphiteater with a stage in the round surrounded by the tables around the room. I remember some of it. And I remember being mesmerized by this man playing this huge grand piano in the middle of the room.

I remember going down to the piano, standing next to it and suddenly being picked up, and put on the lap of the piano player. He put his hands over mine and played "Sweet Georgia Brown." Then I was picked up, the audience all went crazy and my Mother took me back to our table. Now to tell you the child raising skills of parents in the 60's, my parents didn't even realize I was GONE from the table until they heard the crowd cheering.

I remembered all that vividly, but couldn't remember who it was. About two years before he passed away in 1998, my Dad started talking about that story, that I had not thought of for years. Then he said "you know who that was don't you?" I said "No."

He said "That was RAY CHARLES."

In 1962, Ray came out with "RAY CHARLES MODERN SOUNDS OF COUNTRY AND WESTERN MUSIC." It was a ground breaking record, that took his soul style into the country field with songs like "I Can't Stop Loving You" "Your Cheatin' Heart" and more.
He was doing a "stripped down" ("Raw" in your terms) tour through Georgia, and other states, to promote that, with just solo piano or a jazz type trio. Not long after that, he quit playing Ga. due to Segregation. But that was one of his stops on that tour.

I never realized who it was till my Dad told me. So you see, I have LITERALLY been touched by Greatness.


Last edited by Marc Barnette; 07/21/16 12:04 PM.
#1111150 - 07/21/16 12:31 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Great human interest story Marc. Now on to sellouts! Dean Martin also recorded some Country Music! Gheesh. Ain't anything Sacred! And Jo Stafford, Tony Bennett, Kay Starr, etc.

Ray E. Strode
#1111644 - 07/28/16 06:55 AM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Fun story Marc. When I was about 3 I climbed up on a live TV show broadcast nationwide with a hugely famous star. I ran around the stage evading some stagehands trying to wrangle me. Finally, I ran up to the star and put my arms up and on queue he picked me up and proceeded to carry me in his arms until the end of the show. I got huge applause and like you I still remember the experience amazingly, and I believe it is my earliest lifetime memory.

Unlike you, I wasn't touched by "greatness" unless you consider Bozo the Clown, who was famous sure enough and watched around the country, to be greatness.


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

#1111718 - 07/28/16 07:15 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Brian, good to hear from you. That's a good en' too. I'd say anyone that has created a persona so strong that one word can sum it up, "BOZO" would pretty much qualify as "greatness." There is definately an art to "branding" as well as anything. Sounds totally logical to me. I'd say you've been touched by greatness as well. Makes for great stories don't it?


#1111795 - 07/29/16 08:01 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Jim Colyer Offline
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It is hard to keep doing music without an income. I have decided to start hanging out at the Bluebird after I get back from Hong Kong. Being an Internet writer is fun, but I have written 1500 songs and want a real publisher.

#1111879 - 07/30/16 08:20 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Jim Colyer]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Jim, you might find out that "hanging out" at the Bluebird is a lot more difficult than you realize. Every single show is sold out with standing room only and a waiting list to get in, by 8:05 on Monday morning. People will arrive there around 12:00-1:00 and sit in the sun all day waiting for the doors to open at 5:30. There is always a line of those who don't have reservations waiting to see who won't show up so they can take their tables. It is not the good old days of just going to hang out. It is 90% tourists and out of town people that are there to see shows.

There are tons of other songwriters clubs around town. Douglas Corner, Pucketts, The Commodore, the Maxwell House, The Listening room. WE do two shows a week during the day on Wed. and from 7:00- on on Thus. At Bobby's Idle Hour. The Row, Losers, Winners. Rebar, the Blue bar, all have writers nights. There are tons of them in East Nashville in the 5 points area. Read the Nashville scene each week and see who is playing. Around 35 writers nights shows a week.

But if you are looking for publishers, basically you aren't going to find them that way. They don't go out to shows because they are bombarded by music all day and there are really not that many legitimate publishers anymore anyway. most are fee for services song pluggers, pitching services or libraries. All of those charge money.

To find publishers, you have to write your way into the back door. By finding artists. Those are the only people publishers are interested in, because money in songs is long gone. Find a bunch of artists and be involved with their careers. Aside from that you are probably playing on a playing field that is 20 years out of date. It's a co-writing town.

First lesson everyone has to learn. Your ability to advance is totally incumbent upon your ability to do something for someone else.


#1111880 - 07/30/16 08:43 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Had to get a look at this famous establishment.

John smile

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#1111882 - 07/30/16 08:59 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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So this is your stomping grounds Marc?

John smile

#1112442 - 08/06/16 01:36 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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beechnut79 Offline
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Must reply to this one. Recall when Dolly Parton outraged her early fans by going so heavily pop during her "9 to 5" days. But guess what? In recent years she has returned to her mountain-tinged roots and has recorded much of the same sound she began with in her early years, albeit it without the same type of commercial success she had before.

Another example is Mary Chapin Carpenter who began as a pure folkie and later had many mainstream so-called country hits. She too has returned to the introspective type of music she did early on. Did both these ladies "sell-out"? Who really knows.

#1112455 - 08/06/16 06:17 PM Re: SELLING OUT!!!YES [Re: beechnut79]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Yep. That is her. Every day around 10:00 am, the tour buses pull up, people get off just to have their pictures taken out front. The lines for the nightly shows start around 3:00-4:00. The doors open at 5:30. And if you are not there, you are not going to get in because there are actually TWO lines. One, to the left, of people who have reservations, one, to the right, which are people without reservations waiting to see who DOESN'T SHOW UP.

It is the Broadway Musical HAMILTON, on steroids. I actually have thought of a new "scheme." I thought I might book myself to play at the Bluebird and then just sell my slots to outside writers who want to "play the Bluebird." I figure, with four seats, and probably 100-300 people who would want to play, I could charge $100 per song, per slot, each doing 5-6 songs, 12-14 songs. I could clear $1200-$1400 per show. Probably could only do it ONCE but HEY!!!! LOL!

I respect the Bird too much to do that and actually I don't even book myself there. Other people I play with book it and invite me. Have played three times this year so far. And had to miss one because I was out of town.

But it is the best place in the world to play. Audiences are amazing, sitting on the edge of their seats and into every note and every word. It is songwriters Heaven.

Beechnut, it was the SELLING OUT that allowed Dolly and Mary Chapin to do whatever they WANT to. Not many people know this but Dolly Parton owns more real estate than just about anyone in Nashville. She owns strip malls, buildings, parking lots, entire chunks of property downtown and in surrounding areas. She has lots that she has sold for development and actually closer to DONALD TRUMP than anything else. She also owns half of Sevierville, Maryville, Townsend and Gatlinburg Tenn. Her theme park is HUGE and I have been told she is worth over a billion dollars.

Mary Chapin created her own niche and is very much in demand in her Virginia/Maryland area. She plays as much as she wants to, doing theater and symphony dates. She doesn't have to play a lot per year, and does quite well financially.

Those "MAINSTREAM" hits, are the reason both of these women can afford to do whatever they want to.

That is "selling out."

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