JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Performers and Non-Performers

I have looked at performers on the net since performers have to see people's faces when they play and hear them. I am on the net more for multimedia purposes. I have been looking at audio software and am now looking at video. I am currently enrolled in a course for media studies.
I would like to perform eventually. I knew musician friends in my adolescence and enjoyed jamming with them.

How many here are currently doing endeavors other than to play a venue? What is your experience?

Hi Matt:

You bring up an interesting topic. I am a non-performing songwriter but I sing to keep my road to opportunity open. I consider myself a songwriter first and have no desire to perform. You indicate that you plan to perform eventually and that is an admirable objective.

I waited much too late in life to pursue songwriting but the dream was still possible. Little did I know how heavily the scales of the music industry are unbalanced in favor of those who perform. It runs even deeper than that because almost every "contest" expects the finalists to perform in order to be considered.

At one time, songwriters did not need to be performers, but eventually, artists discovered that writing their own songs would "cut out the people in the middle (songwriters and publishers) and thus allow them a larger slice of the pie.

Please don't take my response as that of an envious old coot. It has taken me much too long to realize my musical dream is probably never going to happen.

So I would say your objective is based a keen understanding of "the lay of the land" in the music world.

Best wishes to you for success. Eventually, only those who perform and write their own material will survive.

----Dave

Dave, unfortunately you may be right, which means people will be getting deprived of hearing lots of good songs. God gives different talents to different people. Many are good singers but can't write or play, many are good musicians but can't sing or write and many are good writers but can't perform or play, but combining their talents, great songs can make it to the public. Rarely do you find people have each of those talents to the max. It does happen but rarely. But because of the way music is today, the front man has to do it all to make a living, which can be depleted because he/she is delivering far from the best available songs to a public that are not relating to the point of buying it. We are all losers, but the biggest losers are the music lovers. But then again, many of those music lovers set this in motion when they were stealing music off the net and not willing to pay for it. If they are not willing to pay the piper, then they can not expect to call the tune. You get what you pay for. Mass produced products at low prices does not last like quality produced products. That applies to anything in the market place, from food, music, cars or appliances.

Well said, Everett:

Sorry for the delay. I'm surprised we haven't heard from more songwriters about Matt's thread.

All the best, ----Dave

Well,
Some famous Artists never wrote anything. Elvis comes to mind. Most Artists wrote very few hits. Today a lot of new Artists write, or try to write their own songs. Labels want the Artist to write their own songs because then they don't have to pay full mechanical fees and have been known to basically screw the Artist by only paying a certain amount of writer's royalties. Much less than the going rate.

These major labels will survive because they get the lion's share of airplay royalties, which can amount to millions of dollars each quarter.

This thread has made me research before rock and roll.
Frank Sinatra from what I have seen made the blueprint for the modern pop song, verse, chorus structure. But I don't see much said of him writing too much.
Maybe there are people that have a wealth of good song ideas that are fair to midland composers or arrangers.
There are probably people here that have written quite a bit that run in to what are better songwriting ideas, but then there are all these but's with them.
There seemed to be that seperation between the songwriter and composer before The Beatles.
Many are probably doing their recordings from their homes unassisted on the net. I was probably looking for that magical composer. But that was a different time and enviroment, although I still try to keep my eyes open.

Hi Matt:

To my limited knowledge, Sinatra was not known as a songwriter or composer... only one of the most talented singers of his era.

With the arrival of the Beatles, the dynamic defining songwriter versus artist was forever changed. In fact, it may have begun long before them.

My favorite songwriter/composer, Hoagy Carmichael, had the talent to be all three. His work still survives and one of his best, "Stardust" is popular with those who enjoy music not overpowered by the beat. The thing that made him stand out was his artistic ability to be able to vocalize his songs... but he realized there were other vocalists much more capable of taking them into the pop arena of that time. ...and yes, he lived in the WWII period and beyond, before Rock and Roll began to take a foothold.

Music tends to run in large circles. What was popular yesterday will be "discovered" again someday, perhaps with different forms of expression or possibly merged into another sub-genre.

Just when we think we've heard it all, something new arrives "on scene" and, in reality, it may be something old... coming around again with a new twist. That is what makes the music world revolve and continue to capture our interest.

Good luck with your search to find your place in this music world. ----Dave

Thanks Dave!
Huh, I thought Sinatra composed. Maybe he was around such great composers that I assumed that.
Like great inventors had groups of people that hav'nt been heard of.
I have heard Stardust, yet could not put the composers name to it.

But definitely the first thing with Sinatra is his singing.
When I was a kid I sung some of his better known songs trying to impress the females in to thinking I was bright.

“I would like to perform eventually.”


I would ask: where? If you're thinking of performing original music, you are going to have a limited choice of venues. Open mics, mostly. If you are in a music city, you will also have the option of showcases. Open mics are great places to hone your chops, and meet like-minded people.


“How many here are currently doing endeavors other than to play a venue? What is your experience?”


I write and pitch songs, but make my living playing covers in bars. It's not glamorous, and it's actually rather hard work. Few people realize that.


Regards,

Bob

Having just returned from two days at the ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME in Cleveland, I was able to read and view quite a bit on the history of rock and popular music over the past century to now.

Up until Feb. 9, 1964, there were composers, lyricists and artists.
The second the Beatles hit the Ed Sullivan stage, music changed forever. After that in rock, all artists were signed as much for their ability write as their performing abilities. The era of the composer ended and the writer/artist began. The same as the era of black and white television ended. It is a normal evolution.

All forms of music have followed suite, with country being one of the last formats to change over. That has been happening over the past 15 years as the money declined in songs themselves and artist branding began. But again, this is nothing new. Elvis was a brand. The Beatles were a Brand. Sinatra was a brand. That is what music IS. A way to BRAND an artist as a viable product.

Now, everyone HAS their own format. Everyone is an artist.Everyone is a writer. They no longer need anyone to put words in their mouths. And music is the most subjective thing in the world, so saying "the songs are bad...or the artist is bad... is a relative opinion. And unless you are the one doing it, or involved with the presentation or development of those artists, you opinion means nothing. It is yours, and you might get other people to agree with you, but you will probably have just as many people or more dissagree with you. You have no more say than anyone else.

In Nashville, the business changed over a decade ago, as writers began to skip the publisher route and began to develop artists on their own. Now you see all the same hit writers get all the big cuts, because they have developed the artists themselves. Spent their own money and done what record companies once did and publishers took over. Now the record company/publishing company era is over.

There is very little or any publishing anymore, and the money has all but dissapeared from songs themselves. That era is over as well.

It is the "DO IT YOURSELF" ERA. Any money is going to be derived from artist branding, artist touring and merchandise. And any writer wanting to stay viable will find ways to be involved in that. The rest will write songs from their living rooms, put them on the Internet, only to be replaced in a nano second of time by other songs replacing them, and other songs that will replace those.

The long careers are gone. The long songs are gone. And the "millions in royalties from airplay" are LONG GONE. Songs make hundreds OR thousands of dollars now, not HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS. The million selling song is gone.

The interesting thing about the ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME is that you can see the path of popular music and the business of music as it adapted and changed over the decades. From the equipment used to make it, to record it, to distribute it, then seeing the writers, artists, and people involved adapt and change is very instructive. That is the change everyone is in now.

Everyone sooner or later has to wake up to that or be left behind by it. In my opinion, most writers, particularly those on the Internet, are long left behind. Those that don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

MAB

Even 30+ years ago, one of the best routes to get your original music 'out there' was to hit the road, perform them live, and build a following. I did this for years as a guitarist in a touring band and made a living. Very few people ever hit the 'big time' but there are still many performing artists out there who make a living doing what they love.

If you want to perform, start doing it now, don't wait. That would be my only advice.

Peace,
TC

Thanks much for the insights. My bit of knowledge is much more minimal and sporadic.

My interests where I live from my adolescence is a bit of an oddity with the other childhood friends that played in bands. For starters, I started out (and still do) liking much of the new romantic new wave and Europop, and also North American new wave acts like The Cars, Talking Heads, and what the indie sub/pop acts from Minniapolis were doing. With an affection for eighties visits classic rock acts like Asia. I do like goth also, which is what I like with some metal and eighties meets classical acts. Other than that, much of what I liked went against the more traditional metal and classic rock influences of my musician friends. And I became interested in doing originals around the time of the grunge explosion in the nineties. Maybe I could have handled trying what is not a favorite of mine to build my way up, but where there were band opportunities, some of their lyrical subjects were a bit too left of center for me, such as the life vs. choice issue.

But I don't like giving moral per view in lyrics either way. There are more universal subjects that I like when I do have political lyrics, such as government and large internationalists corruption, as well as the citizens losing privacy in that big game.

What I do know from jamming with musicians on keyboard and vocal, the few occasions I have done that, is that there is something much more magical and vibrant than doing overdubs to myself.

I think I would like to be a songwriter that wants a part in the performance and with the development of a song with others.
It looks like I will definitely look at other than the net for that.
But what is clear with the members on here is finding that medium for that.

I never had a clear influence outside of what I started out liking.
I don't have much that would follow a trend, I want to do something individual and looked at certain influences that I have always liked but have never quite learned, did not know what they were, or had my own slant. Which can sound like noise to others.

For learning purposes on this site, I decided from here on out to scale down to instrument and voice tracks on the mp3 forum.
So I am looking to get heavily in to what stands out with the learned members. As well as re-hooking with like minded people locally.

Matt