Who's Online Now
27 registered members (Brian Austin Whitney, couchgrouch, ben willis, Douglas Murphy, Donna Dutchess, Barry David Butler, Deej56, Alex Berka, beechnut79, Everett Adams, 8 invisible), and 305 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Irwin
Irwin
Georgetown,Guyana,South America
Posts: 514
Joined: February 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Ads at bottom of JPF page
by Brian Austin Whitney. 03/25/17 07:24 PM
How Popular Music’s Lyrics Perpetuate American Idiocy
by Kurt Fortmeyer. 03/25/17 05:42 PM
2017 Nominees Check In Here!
by MidniteBob. 03/25/17 04:49 PM
THE BIRTH OF A NEW SONG
by Donna Dutchess. 03/25/17 04:19 PM
Vietnam....Seems Like Only Yesterday
by Barry David Butler. 03/25/17 04:19 PM
City Boy In A Country Town
by Barry David Butler. 03/25/17 03:58 PM
Filling Your Shoes
by beechnut79. 03/25/17 03:01 PM
If I Had Listened
by Barry David Butler. 03/25/17 02:57 PM
Please Come Home
by Deej56. 03/25/17 02:45 PM
Reviewing and Reviving
by beechnut79. 03/25/17 02:44 PM
Love, there is No such Thing
by beechnut79. 03/25/17 02:42 PM
The Town Where You Were Born
by Rob W. 03/25/17 02:41 PM
Ain't Nothin' Left
by Deej56. 03/25/17 02:37 PM
Being Alive (In Between)
by Rob W. 03/25/17 02:32 PM
The Magic Of The Healing Tree
by Barry David Butler. 03/25/17 01:16 PM
The Art Of Rap
by Martin Lide. 03/25/17 11:24 AM
WHAT'S IN YOUR CD PLAYER ?
by Ray E. Strode. 03/25/17 11:12 AM
The Blue Angels are in Town.
by Ray E. Strode. 03/25/17 10:37 AM
Don't Rain On My Parade
by Barry David Butler. 03/25/17 10:16 AM
I Took Love for Granted
by GabyMartinez. 03/25/17 05:46 AM
Give (Instrumental)
by Alex Berka. 03/24/17 10:30 PM
MAB on WSM radio
by MidniteBob. 03/24/17 10:01 PM
Must Have Been Blind
by Alex Berka. 03/24/17 09:58 PM
10 Points Down
by Alex Berka. 03/24/17 09:39 PM
Ballerina Rose
by couchgrouch. 03/24/17 08:38 PM
I Can't Hear Myself Drink
by couchgrouch. 03/24/17 08:33 PM
I Was Hoping You'd Deny It
by couchgrouch. 03/24/17 08:31 PM
JPF Donations Honor Roll
by Brian Austin Whitney. 03/24/17 08:01 PM
How to deal with trolls
by Brian Austin Whitney. 03/24/17 07:55 PM
Porcelain Princess
by Travis david. 03/24/17 09:52 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,009
Kevin Emmrich 10,522
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Travis david 9,962
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,673
Mike Dunbar 8,574
glynda 8,557
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,714
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,152
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,426
Joe Wrabek 6,390
ben willis 6,049
Dave Rice 5,830
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,714
Linda Sings 5,601
niteshift 5,294
KimberlyinNC 5,195
Vicarn 5,005
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,594
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,333
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
TamsNumber4 3,894
nightengale 3,892
Caroline 3,865
Roy Cooper 3,856
Neil Cotton 3,846
Kolstad 3,732
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,193
beechnut79 3,136
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Harriet Ames 2,863
PopTodd 2,854
Nigel Quin 2,794
E Swartz 2,777
Tom Tracy 2,558
MidniteBob 2,539
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Nelson 2,359
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,233
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,147
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Ray Thyer 1,929
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,727
floyd jane 1,713
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,583
Cal 1,574
Jack Swain 1,554
Rick Heenan 1,550
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,450
RogerS 1,445
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,427
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
Stan Simons 1,402
in2piano 1,397
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,367
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,311
Jan Petter 1,300
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
GocartMoz 1,253
Janice & Bud 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
IdeaGuy 1,209
Glen King 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
PeteG 1,146
summeoyo 1,076
BobbyJoe 1,075
Gerry 1,070
joro 1,045
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Petra 883
IronKnee 870
Drifter 856
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
lane1777 746
90 dB 745
tbryson 736
Andy Kemp 732
Andy K 729
Jackie444 718
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
ant 694
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
9ne 523
Roderic 522
Irwin 514
BB Wilbur 511
pathardy 501
goodfolks 499
Moosesong 489
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
R&M 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
arealrush 423
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 398
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
Cecilee 376
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 351
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
pammie 279
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#1110234 - 07/08/16 05:34 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,420
Michael Zaneski Offline
Top 100 Poster
Michael Zaneski  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,420
California
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
If the two PRO system is broken, I still don't understand how 100% licensing fixes that. Certainly two wrongs still don't make a right?

Only two PROs? Last I checked there's four - ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, SoundExchange. Plus there's Harry Fox and Music Reports that collect for Mechanicals. So that might make for 6. Which is a whole lot compared to other countries...


Jody,

And there's more than two political parties, but for shorthand we often just say it's a "two-party system" referring to the two biggies, though technically there are several.

But honestly, I did not know of Sound Exchange and am appreciative to learn about them..

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 07/08/16 05:37 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#1110245 - 07/08/16 07:10 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,797
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,797
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
For the record! The Pro's collect royalties from Public Performances! That is mostly Radio Air Play but also Venues where live music may be played. They survey public venues on certain things and then the Venue pays a fee on the survey. I think Radio Stations also pay a yearly fee based on certain things. As I understand it the fees are pretty small.
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Don't forget TV and Internet Ray.

What John said but also, Film, Digital Radio XM/Sirius, Streaming Services, Stadiums, Amusement parks, Music Festivals, Pretty much everywhere you can hear music. Not just "mostly" traditional radio or live music.

Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
But honestly, I did not know of Sound Exchange and am appreciative to learn about them.

SoundExchange was started in order to collect for the Performers Royalty for digital broadcasts - as that's the only form of broadcast that pays this royalty in the U.S. The U.S. loses out on an insane amount of royalties for Performers due to the U.S. being 1 of about 4 countries in the world that doesn't pay out a Performers Royalty. But that is slowly changing. Because we don't pay it to foreign music performers, their respective countries don't pay our performers that royalty either. Hopefully congress will soon make it law across all forms of broadcast in the U.S., but the old school broadcasters are still fighting it tooth and nail.

HFA and Music Reports collects the Mechanical Royalty. HFA reps mainly Spotify and standard media, whereas Music Reports reps just about every other digital service.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1110270 - 07/08/16 10:33 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,797
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,797
Park City, UT, USA
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
At this point the DOJ is supposed to make the decision public at the end of July. Plus it still has to negotiate all this with the affected PROs (maybe SESAC & SoundExchange are not part of this, I'm waiting on an answer from my Rep about SESAC, but I'm pretty sure that SoundExchange does not fall under the old decrees). This could get settled in court. Congress may also step in to solve the issue - to which the DOJ has apparently expressed is the method they prefer. Once all of this is actually decided and done - the PROs will have one year to comply.

Literally received word about SESAC a moment ago - SESAC is not subject to this consent decree or any other decree. SoundExchange is too new to be a part of any decrees as well.

Furthermore, SESAC states this:

After the DOJ publishes its recommendations, it must discuss the recommendations with ASCAP and BMI, and have the recommendations approved by the separate federal judges that oversee ASCAP's and BMI's consent decrees. The issues being addressed by the DOJ could also be addressed in court proceedings or, alternatively, Congress could intervene with their views. Once a final decision is made, the DOJ will give the parties time to implement any required changes to licensing policies and practices.

Thus, the DOJ is not the definitive word on this. It has to go to federal judges. Not only that, Congress may intervene.

Time to rally the troops.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1110296 - 07/09/16 01:08 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,209
Everett Adams Online content
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,209
,NL Canada
Radio stations pay a percentage of their advertising income (about five percent)into a fund which goes to the PROs and they pay out to copyright owners on a per song basis what value each play was worth for that quarter.

#1110390 - 07/10/16 12:01 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 437
R&M Offline
Top 500 Poster
R&M  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 437
There were bands over decades under cashbox (which count album sales) that have been displaced from the charts with bands that have sold fewer albums yet got more airplay.
I only know that from being a history buff.
But it all seems to be with what is in the mass medium who has the inside track. No matter what else may have been or better to those masses. Much as with politics.

#1115466 - 09/12/16 07:25 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: R&M]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 962
David Gill Offline
Top 500 Poster
David Gill  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 962
Buffalo, NY
I think I'd be better off just puttin' my open guitar case out on the subway floor with a sign asking for change...

Get it?

Change?

HA! I kill me sometimes...


"Where there's a Gill, there's a way"
#1115764 - 09/17/16 06:04 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: David Gill]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,797
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,797
Park City, UT, USA
And then the Decree was decimated...

http://www.billboard.com/articles/n...t-dept-of-justices-100-percent-licensing

Y'all from BMI & ASCAP and breathe a little sigh of relief.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1116513 - 09/30/16 04:47 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,012
Brian Austin Whitney Online content
Brian Austin Whitney  Online Content


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,012
Indianapolis, IN USA
I am still a bit confused after reading that article....

Fractional means only one writer out of all legal writers has to give permission?


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney


#1116518 - 09/30/16 11:50 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,685
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 40 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,685
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Humm,
I do think somebody was confused about the music business. If two writer's who belong to different Pro's write a song or songs together the best advice is to have a Co-Writing Agreement so each knows what they can and cannot do with a song. A separate agreement on each song. Naturally if assigning a song to a Publisher both Writer's would have to grant permission. If the Congress had put this Bill into Law there would have been Lawsuits to no end to repeal the Law. The old Adage, If it ain't broke don't fix it most likely applies here.


Ray E. Strode
#1116575 - 10/01/16 12:01 PM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,830
Dave Rice Offline
Top 40 Poster
Dave Rice  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,830
Texas
This "turf war" seems to be coming from a group of Federal Employees who don't understand how the music biz is structured. I get a newsletter from ASCAP nearly every day warning about this poorly thought out attempt to mismanage music.

When coupled with the distinct possibility that the U.S. is giving up control of the internet, I wonder where we (songwriters) will be in a couple of years? We also have a new lady in charge of the Library of Congress' Copyright Office.

Sometimes change is good and sometimes it causes large ripples on the "Music Pond."

Thanks, Marc and Jody for your input. I sure don't have time to keep up with all this malarkey. Being stuck with trying to decide which Presidential candidate is the most vile is bad enough. Like Ray, I hope these idiots will keep their hands off the controls. I don't think we have heard the last of this.


#1116714 - 10/03/16 07:11 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 501
pathardy Offline
Top 500 Poster
pathardy  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 501


Nothing has been more devastating to songwriters more than the digital revolution.



#1116719 - 10/03/16 10:58 AM Re: NEW PRO RULINGS ON THE WAY [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,732
Kolstad Offline
Top 100 Poster
Kolstad  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,732
Denmark
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I am still a bit confused after reading that article....

Fractional means only one writer out of all legal writers has to give permission?


Yes, I believe you are correct. That is also how PRS in the UK reads the DOJ.

In a report about this issue PRS writes:

--- (quote)

4. The potential impact of the Department of Justice’s proposal

PRS believes that if the US PROs are obliged to grant licenses for the whole of a work even where in reality they are mandated to represent only a share of that work, this will cause significant harm to PRS and its writer members in particular because:

- Music users will inevitably seek to license 100% of any work from the PRO to whom they pay less;

- A PRO therefore may find itself obliged to account for an unspecified share of royalties to writer or music publisher with whom it has no contractual relationship or even adequate details to be able to identify them;

- A PRO will not necessarily be able to increase fees charged to music users to compensate writers that they do not represent and therefore, even if a PRO can assess what may be due to other writers it will potentially dilute royalties that would have been due to the writers they do represent.

- A PRO may not be incentivised to continue to invest in improving its administration systems if there is no certainty that it will administer its own repertoire. The competition between the US PROs for the provision of administration services to PRS members may therefore be reduced.

- A PRO may not be incentivised to invest in enforcement activities for the rights it has been given if there is no certainty that the enforcement activity will result in a licence.

- We understand that under US law, although a joint owner of a copyright can bind others to a licence he grants, it is also possible that the joint owners agree otherwise. How will any PRO know whether such an agreement exists? For them to investigate the actual position will add significantly to their administration processes and costs.

- PRS itself will have no idea which PRO may account for royalties for any particular writer member. If it seeks to track royalties that are due from known exploitation, there will inevitably be utter confusion as to whether royalties have in fact been accounted for by the PRO contractually obliged to license it and account for royalties or some other PRO. How can PRS enforce its own contractual terms with a PRO in such circumstances?

PRS sees the Department of Justice’s proposal as fundamentally distorting the competitive market to provide services to rightsowners.

--- (end quote)

Source: https://www.justice.gov/atr/public/ascapbmi2015/ascapbmi48.pdf (page 2-3)

We currently have a copyright reform process in the EU, where similar issues have been discussed. The European Writers group are working on a transnational level to protect and improve authorship rights in the digital age of now.

For those of you who are working with this in the US, and maybe want to view the European discussions and arguments, can follow this work here http://www.europeanwriterscouncil.e...&layout=blog&id=7&Itemid=125


Buzz Tracks
Making media sweeter

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/buzztracks
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
Alex Berka, Simone, Taikoza, MikeontheMoon, BlakeAllyn
20872 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums117
Topics116,364
Posts1,098,883
Members20,872
Average Posts Daily45
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"Never accept no as an answer from someone not empowered to say yes in the first place." –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
AlessiaMagalotti (38)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0