JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Questions about performers on my songs

I have done forty original recordings on the internet since 2004. I have narrowed what I would like to do with added musicians for 10 of them. I would like to hook up with members of music sites. I have been thinking of bandmix. There is an administator their that used to administrate at soundclick that added me to his station player once. But I would like thoughts on where to go for musicians to where I want them to cover my originals.

Matt

Matt,

I am a bit puzzled as to your expectations. Let me ask you a question. How many junk and spam emails a day do you respond to? How many ads for products you don't use, things that look totally bogus, that pop up on the Internet hourly, do you click on, go to and investigate? In the era of identity theft, customer fraud, viruses, potential dangerous implications, how many do you just randomly respond to?

Because until people get to actually know you, to physically have some form of interaction with you, you and your music are the equivalent of a spam email. No one knows you, or has any interest in trying to find out what you have. There are simply too many choices, and most of them are besieged by trying to get their own ideas out there.

The reason I ask that is because you seem to take an "internet only" approach to music. How many of these bands or artists do you physically go out and support in your area? Who are the people you think "needs" your music?

You see, artists, bands, duos, etc. are always writing their OWN music. They have their own songs, their own emotions, their own experiences. They don't need yours. There is no need or incentive to even listen to anyone that you don't know personally. It is the biggest mistake I see writers do. Thinking that just because you click on some link on a web site, is going to connect you with countless people who can't wait to do your songs. It just doesn't work that way.

Writers with no real personal connections outside some random internet based approach really HAVE NO APPROACH. You are asking "where can I go...what can I do?" I don't know. I don't know you or your habits. But I can tell you that there are some things happening in society that are ending those approaches.

The more we are technologically brought closer, the Net, Cell phones, web sites, etc. the further apart we get. People are more likely to be confrontational, dismissive, and simply ignore anything that does not fall into what they want or have personal relationship with.

The more people try to pitch themselves and music relying only on the Internet, the less success they have because there are so many other people doing the same thing.

So you have some choices. You can actually start researching some people who perform in your area, join some groups, find a JPF chapter, actually get out and meet some people.

Or, you can continue what you are doing, which obviously is not working, or you wouldn't come here asking these questions.

That is what the people who are actually doing this do. That is what your competition does. But what you are saying is "I don't want to have to do that. I just want to put my stuff on the Internet and I want people to get it and record my songs."

Sorry, but that just doesn't work and really never has. The Internet has given a false sense of security and a lot of myths that people have bought into. That they can do everything without ever leaving the comfort of their houses. Unfortunately that simply doesn't work.

The choice is yours. But from where I sit, you keep seeming to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

There is a name for doing that.

Insanity.

MAB

Re-edited in next post for coherence.

I am in a media studies class. I intended to take a class in it years back. I looked at the net for the time being to learn more about software and what musicians do on the net for a business perspective. There are musicians that do commercials that may or may not perform in places and kick out a cd of their own, which is what I thought of having musicians for.
The musicians outlets in my school like to perform. The one student in my class that is in to music and marketing is in to hip hop, which I am not, and does events. I like the making part of it and not the performing in places. There is another thing I might reconsider with that.
So yeah, I need to get that gumption from when I was a kid and make contacts.

Thanks for your perspectives MAB

Matt,

Most musicians, authors, writers, actors, even artists, are by definition introverts. They would all like to just "do what they do and let the chips fall where they may." It's great work if you can get it, but rarely happens that way.

Many of the things that derail most people trying to do the entertainment in any way shape or form, are the things that you have to do AWAY from the writing, recording, performing. The advancing of gigs, industry functions, conferences, spending late nights driving, traveling, doing thousands of things to advance a gig that have nothing to do with the gig or even working multiple jobs just to support the music habit. If people really realized how much was involved that have NOTHING to do with music, they might think much harder about how they approach it.

Musicians who do commercials, usually do a number of other things that lead to being in the commercials. They might be friends with people who are producing the commercials. They might have played in bands or done work years or even decades ago that led to the places they are now. They might have done a lot of other work in totally unrelated jobs working their way into that position. And it is doubtful they do "Just commercials." They are most often session players, that do a variety of work and have built careers on decades of doing pretty much anything and everything.

There are some that get lucky and just fall into things. But that only gets you in the door. Their talent and instincts have to keep them there. And in this business, there is one very solid rule.

"IT IS NOT WHO YOU KNOW."
"IT IS WHO KNOWS YOU, AND HOW THEY KNOW YOU."

At any rate, whatever you do, the biggest thing you are going to have to have is good political, social and people skills. That is something you can never overlook.

MAB

Hey Matt,

Marc has pretty much covered it. ( Good to see you Mr Motormouth )

As a pro muso 20 yrs ago, it was a tough but well paid gig. Do anything anywhere, anytime, but of all things be involved.

Walk out your front door, and find your nearest venue that you're interested in. Talk to the owner, tell him you're a songwriter. Ask if you could speak with bands that come through there. Be genuine, honest, and don't germ anyone.

Tell people who YOU are, and what you do. Most won't be bothered, but some will. Meet and greet, and back off if they're too busy. If that doesn't work, try again from a different angle with others whom you may think may appreciate you as a songwriter. Repeat over....

As Marc said, it is about personal relationships. The internet helps somewhat but is only a tool in the arsenal.

Ask me how I know ? I have a 16 yr old daughter, who besides being a sometimes actor, is a very good musician, played piano since 6, guitar both acoustic and electric since 10, and is also a vocalist and songwriter, but so what ?

I can give her all the intro's in the world ( which I have done ) but it's up to her to make her own intros', find her own way with her own peer group and take it from there.

There's no easy way, just hard work and a lot of hit and miss.

Get out there, and make it happen.

cheers, niteshift

PS - I quite agree with Marc that the vast majority of performance people are introverts, especially the talented ones.

Very good nightshift, glad we are on the same page.

Hey Matt, a couple of questions for you.

What are your expectations?

What are you currently doing outside the Internet for your career.

What are your normal habits in your writing, performing, networking?

You see, a big thing I run into with younger people, and since you are in college I take it you are a bit younger, is that there is often an attitude of ENTITLEMENT. Not to say it is with you, but a lot of people that just do the Internet seem to expect it all just to be served up to them. That is why so many overlook the physical part of getting out of their home.

So if you can fill in a few blanks, we might be able to zero in on things you can do.

MAB

Appreciate the insights niteshift and MAB.
I guess I was a little green in my thinking of the net. Though I never believed people that said I could just post a cd and sell 500 of them.

The musician friends I had known with music was around the first time I became interested in it in the nineties. That was definately not a good time with me to forge plans. Those friends have either moved, have gone on to other things, or are deceased.

I looked at the net to take a more constructive route to stay involved in music.
Get in to audio and video making and soundtrack work and do that with others, perhaps. There are a lot of writers, producers, and collaberators of various sorts. I have been on the net pretty infrequently though and have lacked the social skills for a long time.

I am mixed on how I feel of the performers lifestyle. That is something I feel I can't do on an ongoing basis even though I would like to do that to some extent.
Perhaps just mingling more in my school will do that. The students are pretty approachable and the instructor is supportive.

I was thinking that it would be good to have a site to hook up with for that and do some demos. But since it was mentioned, I havn't really communicated the way I should have.
That can be the hardest to learn for some.

I know people on major record deals who are not selling 500 CD's. Not many people at all selling those anymore. Most are downloads and a lot of those are for FREE. Most people have found that out about the Net. It is mostly a sellers market and everyone is a seller. There are people who manage to find a platform but it is my contention and experience it still takes a good deal, probably 90% of it in a LIVE situation. Which goes back to my original question, are you performing at all?

A "performers" lifestyle is just that. PERFORMING. And unless you are inviting people into your living room, they are probably not going to come to you. You have to go where they are.
Many people perform when they can, around their schedules, mostly in their own neighborhoods. That is probably where you should start.

Around your school again could be a good place to get going, but remember, everyone there is trying to do the same thing you are. So again, a SELLERS market.

The biggest thing you have to do is find CUSTOMERS for your music. That is fan base, those are people who support you.

The Internet is something that can be fairly confusing and misleading. It sounds great about having a way to get your music EVERYWHERE. It is a little harder in practical application to GET PEOPLE TO FIND YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And that is the delima that everyone trying to do this from any direction is having to deal with.

Good luck,

MAB