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#1104711 - 04/12/16 01:08 PM You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit??  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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Courts have decided to let this case proceed, Essentially Spirit says Page copied the opening of STH from their Taurus. Definitely similar IMO, and "within the family" so to speak, but also dissimilar in a number of ways...so I can see why the courts have to decide this based on the experts.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/led-zeppelin-copyright-trial-1.3531641


Taurus-Spirit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8AVbwB_6E&nohtml5=False


BTW, Spirit is an awesome band and were IMO way ahead of their time (active lates sixties to mid\late seventies) and very influential. Personal favourite is The Twelve Dreams of Dr Sardonicus. Great music with headphones...can do so via Youtube as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkd5JWYM9wM

but I bought one of those "packaged discograhies" of theirs from Amazon last year and it's all pretty good.


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1104713 - 04/12/16 01:43 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Hey John,

I imagine it's the chord progression the copyright infringement is referring to. And that chord progression has been used extensively through the years. The Beatles have a song using it (though I can't think of the title at the moment). I'm sure if I had the time I'd find numerous songs using that progression long before either of these. Anyway, chord progressions aren’t copyrightable. We all use them. These kind of copyright infringement cases are nonsense. I bet I could find an 18th Century folk song using this chord progression. But I’m not wasting my time on nonsense – unless they want to pay me $100 and hour for my research.

John smile

#1104722 - 04/12/16 02:25 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Can somebody please tell me the chord progression for country songs? I had it written down but I lost it.

Scott

#1104723 - 04/12/16 02:28 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Dave Rice  Offline
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I don't consider myself an expert on anything but this appears to be "much to-do about nothing" because the chord progression in both works are similar to each other and to many earlier works, including the Beatles. I agree with John about the probability of finding 18th or even 17th century (or before) works including similar passages.

My best guess is the probability the suit will either be thrown out or "ruled" in-favor of the Zeps.

It all seems to go back to the old adage, "Any publicity is better than no publicity!"

----Dave

#1104724 - 04/12/16 03:32 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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I don't care! Listened to a part of the Brahms Academic Overture in the car this morning as I was coming back from my monthly haircut. A great recording by the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra. As we all know this has to be decided, if it is decided, in Court, and you can get more than one opinion. Wow. I need to go back thru all my records to see who the bleep I can sue!

Country Song Chord Progressions? Never heard of such a thing. It depends where the song/lyrics go.

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 04/12/16 04:19 PM.

Ray E. Strode
#1104746 - 04/12/16 06:12 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Jim Colyer Offline
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Innocent until proven guilty.

#1104751 - 04/12/16 07:01 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Jim Colyer]  
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Michael LeBlanc Offline
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Michael LeBlanc  Offline
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it's a bunch of balogny!

#1104753 - 04/12/16 07:13 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael LeBlanc
it's a bunch of balogny!


Well said Mike! laugh

John smile

#1104794 - 04/13/16 10:04 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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Some people will sue over anything, keeps the lawyer happy and well fed but keeps the courts tied up while criminals go free. Makes a person nervous when writing songs, you may accidently use a part of another song and get sued for it.

#1104798 - 04/13/16 11:05 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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This case has been around many years. At one point it had been thrown out because of a Classical piece written a few hundred years before. I believe it was Bach, but I cannot remember. You hear of these things all the time, they sort of make the joke rounds among songwriters and publishers, and everyone starts pulling out examples of blatant rip offs or accidental things.
They usually are thrown out or settled behind closed doors, with non-disclosure aggreements that no one can talk about. Also rarely for the amounts that are claimed. Usually most of the people involved are long dead so it doesn't much matter anyway.

The fact is that EVERYTHING sounds like something else, and all of these suits are just another problem writers have to deal with. And the fact that this has even been going since the SEVENTIES is proof of how long it takes to get anything adjudicated. If you are paying legal fees all that time, probably no one will ever get a dime.

MAB

#1104806 - 04/13/16 11:59 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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John Voorpostel Offline
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Audience, one my absolutely favourite early seventies bands, had an instrumental , "Raviole", that on their album "House on the Hill" was credited to the band


One day, driving along, I heard it....but by a classic 17th\18th century composer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txWr19EG2SA&list=RDtxWr19EG2SA&nohtml5=False#t=95

As I recall, Lennon and McCartney also found fertile ground in the classics.


Anyway, I posted the item so you could hear for yourselves what was being alleged. It is my understanding this would NOT go to court unless a judge found merit in the arguments presented...not that this is a decision, only that it should be decided in a court of law



If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

iAccountant --- Info L inc --- Taxboard
#1105004 - 04/17/16 04:00 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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On an unrelated note, I had the honor of opening for Randy California and Spirit in a club in Dayton Oh in the early 90's. Small turnout but they were great. Randy was nice but a little weird. Probably the only rock star to die while doing something NOBLE. He and his family were on vacation in Hawaii and his son got caught in a rip-tide. Randy managed to save his son, but HE drowned.


bc
#1105005 - 04/17/16 04:01 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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What the hell is "balogny?" LOL!


bc
#1105006 - 04/17/16 04:14 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: John Voorpostel]  
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Bob Cushing Offline
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And I just listened to it, and although they are SIMILAR, I don't think the lawsuit has a leg to stand on. THOUSANDS of songs are SIMILAR to each other. And why NOW all these years later? Sounds like an attempted money grab from who ever is in charge of Randy's estate.


bc
#1105168 - 04/19/16 01:45 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Ahh, a new wrinkle. Found another song from 1953 with the same thing. Now they can sue Spirit, for stealing it first. Then someone will sue them. And the case goes on forever.

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/15/bombshell-emerges-in-stairway-to-heaven-plagiarism-case/

#1105171 - 04/19/16 01:51 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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#1105173 - 04/19/16 03:17 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Whatwazit?
Spirit stole a Rif from CRY ME A RIVER. Golly I remember that song around the late 50's. Recorded by Julie London if it's the same one. Well in the words of Satchel Page, NEVER LOOK BACK, SOMETHING MAY BE GAINING ON YOU!


Ray E. Strode
#1107568 - 05/22/16 06:18 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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I agree, you can't copyright a chord progression, it would be like trying to copyright water, and suing Pepsi because there's water in it.

I don't see this suit going anywhere, but they won on "blurred lines" which had only a beat in common, so if they can persuade a jury, that's all that matters.


#1107645 - 05/23/16 04:11 PM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Pat Hardy]  
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Michael LeBlanc Offline
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Michael LeBlanc  Offline
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i would decide if i was on the jury then me Jimmy and Robert would go have a couple colds ones and celebrate.Mike

#1107723 - 05/25/16 10:02 AM Re: You decide- did led Zeppelin copy Spirit?? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
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E Swartz Offline
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I listened above to Mike's link with Spirit's original song in question vs. Zep's Stairway.

I know chord progressions cannot be copyrighted, however melodies can be, as well as "significant riffs." Spirit IMO, probably has "some" foundation that the similarity "may" be too similar, and at least have a case worthy of "sampling" which is just stealing a major riff or chorus melody/verse melody in "one area" of a song structure. This is NOT an exact notation, however, given it's style and tempo, it definitely is a "1st cousin!" The question will be determining "how" similar, and when is that line crossed? Therein lies the opportunity for powers that be for bias--as we know, genuine fairness can only come from unbiased appraisal with most situations.

What really bothers me here, is that almost 40 years later, you have a big enough beef to want to stir up this pot! I wouldn't be surprised if the impetus here began with attorneys anyway. My thoughts would be as a judge or juror, is that your plea is at this point in time a little "sour grapes," had you come to me years ago, I "may" have been inclined to recognize your grievance.....sorry case dismissed, too much water over this bridge. Attacking gray haired icons may get you some initial publicity, but only harm your legacy in the long run.

steady-eddie.


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