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#1096310 - 11/29/15 04:11 AM Do You Do Demos to differnt influences?  
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R&M Offline
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I would like to add influences in to primary influences.
Mainly classic rock to new wave.
I have looked at playing out individual forms and infusing them, but would like people learrned in the forms with the set of songs I am working on and to put their parts in it.
Programmed samples would'nt make it individual enough.
I am understood the most in new wave.
But people don't understand the beats and arrangements outside of the most basic.
And I would like everything played. Even though I have been cosidering programmed samples as a neccesity for demos to better get the point across to perspective musicians. Or just going with a primary instrument and voice.

#1096345 - 11/30/15 01:21 AM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: R&M]  
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Chris Erhardt Offline
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Can you give an example of what exactly you're trying to do? When talking about classic rock and new wave even within the genre there are so many sub genres and many artists had their own unique style so it's hard to really understand exactly what you are trying to achieve. I do agree that when looking for something very different and not the usual middle of the road kind of stuff, samples are not the best solution in most cases. Playing the parts will give you much more freedom and room to customize as needed.


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#1096373 - 11/30/15 10:50 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Chris Erhardt]  
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What I have posted at broadjam would be more of a rough summary.

I can tell you what I was thinking doing them.
I hope I don't sound too self indulgent.

The first track titled "Living In An Icy Snow", is a stab at an eighties rock track.

The second "Now", is Talking Heads with metal influences combined with Bryan Ferry, David Bowie influenced vocals.

The third track "Out In The Sun", I am trying Big Country and some blues influences in the instrumental with the electric piano.
Except that I use a harmonica in the Big Country influences instead of an eboe.

The fourth track titled "Go Stop", is more of a straight new wave recording. Except that I am trying to infuse pop standards with harmony vocals and handclaps in the chorus.

I was thinking with your comments that I should parse these different arrangements on a demo individually. I have some more recordings to work on too.

Thanks for your time and feedback.

#1096409 - 12/01/15 04:54 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: R&M]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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In a word, no. The basic demo is to show off the song in the form and style it was written in. If you are doing your own production for public sale of course put in what you like. If something distracts too much from the original idea it may not be received as well as it could have been. With the basic demo don't over do it!


Ray E. Strode
#1096412 - 12/01/15 05:43 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: R&M]  
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
In a word, no. The basic demo is to show off the song in the form and style it was written in. If you are doing your own production for public sale of course put in what you like. If something distracts too much from the original idea it may not be received as well as it could have been. With the basic demo don't over do it!


That is true if you make demos without a specific brief of a current opportunity or from your publisher. In that case you would try to stay as much in the middle of the road as possible as you don't really know where and who you're pitching to. However, most songwriters make a demo for a specific brief and if the publisher asks for something specific, you should put it in, otherwise your chances of being picked for that particular opportunity is equal to 0. Just recently a songwriter came to us with a very specific request of a dark, heavy, rock/metal song for a new video game. She ended up placing the song but only because her demo was exactly as per the supervisor's brief. If she had the song produced safely to show the original form and style it was written in, she would have not placed it with the video game producer. Always know who you're pitching to and what's requested.

Originally Posted by R&M
What I have posted at broadjam would be more of a rough summary.

I can tell you what I was thinking doing them.
I hope I don't sound too self indulgent.

The first track titled "Living In An Icy Snow", is a stab at an eighties rock track.

The second "Now", is Talking Heads with metal influences combined with Bryan Ferry, David Bowie influenced vocals.

The third track "Out In The Sun", I am trying Big Country and some blues influences in the instrumental with the electric piano.
Except that I use a harmonica in the Big Country influences instead of an eboe.

The fourth track titled "Go Stop", is more of a straight new wave recording. Except that I am trying to infuse pop standards with harmony vocals and handclaps in the chorus.

I was thinking with your comments that I should parse these different arrangements on a demo individually. I have some more recordings to work on too.

Thanks for your time and feedback.


I will take a listen to the songs on your broadjam later today or tomorrow. After reading the description of the songs I'm very curious to hear them and see if I can make out the influences you were shooting for. I'll get back to you then.


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#1096415 - 12/01/15 07:55 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Chris Erhardt]  
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songcat,
If a Publisher is signing a song from a "Worktape" and doing the polished demo they can do whatever "Floats Their Boat". It is pretty rare for a publisher today to sign anything. Believe it or not, some want a raw basic demo. I have had producer's tell me that. I have had songs signed from just a Guitar/Vocal. Wanna demo one of my songs for free? I have a few.


Ray E. Strode
#1096419 - 12/01/15 08:06 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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I never use the word "demo."

#1096422 - 12/01/15 08:19 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Jim Colyer]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Addendum,
If you sign a song, or songs, to a Publisher they will have a clause in the contract that allows editing if needed by the Artist. Many times it is necessary to make the song a better fit. Legally editing a song in no way, shape or form, gives someone a writing credit on a song. Write a Hit!


Ray E. Strode
#1096434 - 12/02/15 02:32 AM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Chris Erhardt Offline
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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
songcat,
If a Publisher is signing a song from a "Worktape" and doing the polished demo they can do whatever "Floats Their Boat". It is pretty rare for a publisher today to sign anything. Believe it or not, some want a raw basic demo. I have had producer's tell me that. I have had songs signed from just a Guitar/Vocal. Wanna demo one of my songs for free? I have a few.


I can't deny that some publishers or producers rather hear a stripped down version of a song. I heard that happens from time to time. But, let's face it, most won't sign a guitar/vocal demo. As Jim said, using the word 'demo' is not even appropriate. When talking about a demo today, we're talking about full blown productions.

Again, I don't deny that some might prefer a stripped down production, but those are mostly producers and publishers in pretty much the same situation as yourself. They don't know who, when and where to pitch the song in the first place. If they knew, they would request a 'demo' specifically for that artist, movie, ad, etc.

I can only speak from what I hear from the songwriters hiring us and my own experience. The vast majority contacts us saying: "Hey, this producer/publisher/A&R/Supervisor is looking for this or that (often even naming the artist, film, ad, etc). Here is my work tape... Can you do it?"


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Contact me at chris@tunedly.com
#1096437 - 12/02/15 06:59 AM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Chris Erhardt]  
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I can already attest in my own small way with what was said with forms Ray and songcat.
I posted some recordings in a distribution site in concise forms. At least for what I can do.
I had prior knowledge from people that strayed away from form too much.


But from what is said it sounds like there are connections leading up to that demo with much thought. Stay with concise forms and look at forums for what I second guess on.
But having learned musicians around me could give that a better maybe.
As much as I think something might work, I have to look at what others hear if I don't want to be the only one hearing it.
Whatever you hear in my recordings songcat, I am looking at having what I do make sense.
I will attempt more than embellishments.

I want that demo to where peopkle can say "this is it".
But I need people.

I love soundtrack music myself and would like to look at various mediums.

But who would I send that presentation to?
It sounds like there is a lot of perspective on here with that and choices.
I look forward to who might join me on that way.

#1096450 - 12/02/15 01:36 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: R&M]  
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Well,
I have no first hand knowledge of how a producer does it in the Major Music Centers but I suspect the producer puts out a call for songs for such and such named artist to the Publisher's and the Publisher's puts together a package of songs and submit's them. And the submissions are most likely full band demos. No problem. Most of us songwriter's don't have tons of money to make full price, many times very expensive, demos so some make demos with a music program in a computer or just a Guitar/Vocal. And even the more seasoned writer's get rejected most of the time!


Ray E. Strode
#1096919 - 12/11/15 07:29 AM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Cheyenne Offline
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If you were trying to persuade other Rock Groups including

all known Subcategories , to listen and record your songs

You are going to have a very long period (and in my opinion)

of wasted time, Why ? Groups prefer

to write their own, and Record Companies and Publishers dont

want it especially in this New Millennium of Music companies

going belly up Daily

If however you are forming or have a band around you, thats an

entirely different matter, Song Production is a very

specialised art, and Great Producers are very rare

The real problem for everyone is getting your song to someone

who is in a position to say YES any idiot can say NO

Even if you manage to write an innovative master piece and

that includes a fantastic production the chances for you and

your band are ten million to one

If however you are writing Contemporary Country or good old

Pop songs that's another matter a simple DEMO will suffice

providing the song is well written and the singer can sing in

tune

YOU TUBE Great option providing the group and front man look the

part and the song is great The buzz will get around and will

lower your odds of any sort of success

I listened to your first song and to be honest it needs many re

writes, it does not pull the listener in and the Chord sequence

is far too old fashioned

Last edited by Cheyenne; 12/11/15 07:31 AM.

One of the most important principles of songwriting is to remember that a good song is a partnership of many different components, all working together to produce a satisfying musical experience.

In that respect, song components are either enhancing or compromising their combined effects.
#1097094 - 12/13/15 08:11 PM Re: Do You Do Demos to differnt influences? [Re: Cheyenne]  
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Thanks cheyenne for your detailed response.
I can't tell you how old fasioned and too plaintive sounds better to me than bad head music and am I trying to be an alternative.
I have narrowed my scope.
I would like to do many rewrites and inclde others in that too.


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