JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Anyone play the market?

What is happening with the stock market lately? Taking a bit of a beating lately. Anyone here invest in the market?

A correction that has been coming for a long time. Actually was supposed to happen long before this. Overvalued in areas.Happens from time to time. Nothing to get too worried about. having to do a lot with China devaluing their currency. They are in a lot of trouble over there. Just have to sit tight and wait it out.

MAB

not much change in my pork bellies!

Everett, this could very well be the ramp up to the ending of the present Shemitah (pronounced Schmee-ta in Hebrew) year we are currently in that I referred to in a recent previous post when I talked about the book "The Harbinger" (NY Times bestseller). Sept 13th (Elul 29) approaches quickly. I don't believe Rabbi Cahn to be an alarmist, a sensationalist, or a glory hound. I find him to be a sincere man. I am not a doomsday person or superstitious, infact quite the contrary, BUT our country has turned it's back on God. No, not all of us, but the rain can fall on the righteous as well.

Here is a link to his most recent taping given the Shemitah is about 20 days away and he addresses questions that many have asked. It is hard to fully understand w/o reading the book though the parallels in the book from ancient Israel to America are uncanny, stunning, and as some say statistically impossible to be coincidence.

I will prepare to some degree in a calm, measured fashion for what could be a financial storm of large proportion. I recommend the same for all as a "just in case". Some are doing their "Shemitah shopping" of stocking up, etc. I have never been moved before to act upon something like this but I feel something inside this time, something different. Call me crazy but I am actually a rational person. Keep it mind it may be financial in nature or something else entirely, i.e. terrorist attack, storm, earthquake, etc. or combination thereof. I do not know.

Here is the link. Some will agree, disagree, mock, or be moved to take their own personal steps. We all have a free will.

Recent message from Rabbi/Pastor Jonathan Cahn


https://youtu.be/SgYZlPAJHv0



If you can't get the link to come up just type in "Jonathan Cahn August 2015 message"

Lynn, I've been expecting something to happen but not till Sept. so this is a little early. We don't know what will happen or in what form it will take, could be financial, weather related, terrorist related, etc. but God will not be mocked, as you say the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

Actually,
I understand everything about the Markets except the Greek Portion. It's all Greek to me. So why did China devalue their currency? Well to make it simple, they need a place to market all those goods they are making. So where is the biggest market? Right here in Amirica Sheema! But, our esteemed leaders decided to fix everything such as health Care and just the opposite of what they anticipated would happen, happened. Money is scarce. So they can't buy as much goods from China or anywhere for that matter. Do I play the Markets. Yes, the Farmers Market where I can buy some veggies from time to time.

Buy low, sell high. Do not be scared into doing the opposite. The markets have been hit many times with huge declines "that they will never recover from", but they always have recovered and moved higher.

No Everett, I don't play the market. I invest over the long run. My stocks are low risk and insured up to $250,000. However, nothing is risk free. When our Government hits rock bottom through massive inflation due to our obscene National Debt that grows daily (over 18 trillion now) and obligations they can only maintain through borrowing and stealing from the Social Security Fund.

Too many people “play the market”. Gambling, not investing. I think there should be a law (though I hate that word) that stocks have to be held for three months before cashing in. Would put an end to these destructive gamblers.

John

Hi Folks:

Whether or not we realize it... we all "play" the market in one way or another. Much of our economy is linked directly to the Stock Markets. Our Government tracks it (probably to our detriment) and many of our "social security" increases (pardon my laughter) are based on how the economy performs.

Many retirees have "fund based" retirement accounts or other methods linked directly to the market. Then there are those wealthy folks who risk a large percentage of their wealth directly into the market (like "The Donald") and others who control nearly 90% of the nations income.

I agree with John L. Schick about the minimum three month required investment period. I would even prefer that it be longer than that to stop so many risky maneuvers the traders on Wall Street, Day Traders and Bernie Madoff Look-alikes use to manipulate the direction of the market in their favor.

No matter what you think... we are all connected to the stock market in more ways than we realize.

Invest well... ----Dave

P.S. - Yes, Lynn Orloff... I also agree that we are flirting with catastrophe by ignoring the Laws of God. Those doing the "flirting" will be first on the list to receive their "just reward" at Judgment Day! I hope the Supreme Court Justices are aware that there is a HIGHER POWER!

My son works at SunTrust Bank, so I helped him learn about the stock market. As for myself, I stay away from it.

Everett, I hope you have been paying attention this week. The market has almost made back all the losses it went through early in the week. Always happens like that, it goes up and down and people make money BOTH WAYS. The really big mega gazillinaiers like George Sorros, Warren Buffett and others make money both ways, when stocks fall, they BUY up huge tons of it, and when it rises, sell it and make even more money. The stock market is traditionally a pretty lousy way to judge how the economy is doing. It hits older people and 401 K's the hardest but even those often come back if no one panics.

Since they should NOT be day trading in the market anyway, they should have nothing to worry about although they do get nervous. My 84 year old mother has a good deal of money invested, but she has it in a LOT of different things, so she should be fine if she just leaves it alone. At one point, during the big crash a few years ago where supposedly the entire world was being destroyed and all was lost, in the mid 2000's, one fund we both had GAINED an enormous amount, almost doubling in value.

It's like that old Blood Sweat and Tears song, "WHAT GOES UP, MUST COME DOWN!!!" You just keep your head and it generally turns out fine.

Hope you are well up in the frozen white North.

MAB

I have my money( no great pile but too much to lose) invested in very conservative stocks through banks and credit unions investment funds, even then I took a hit of a few thousand dollars, but I didn't panic and sell, so I hope it will come back and gain and pay me dividends to supplement my pensions. Like you say these billionaires can cause panic amongst small investors just by selling a few million shares which will bring down the value of the shares, small investors panic and sell off even more furthering the slide in value, when it reaches a certain level, billionaires will buy up those low priced shares, driving up the value again. There should be laws to prevent this from happening but no one wants to touch these rich people, especially governments.

Everett,

It is not so much that people don't want to "touch" These rich people, as it is best not to. Those people bring the capital that it takes to build businesses, run the economy. While it is fun and interesting to demonize the rich, (which every one wants to do) the reality is that they are the blood that flows through everything. And most of the time if the people go after them, they find out something backfires on them.

Some of those big funds are tied up in millions and millions of retirement funds. So if someone goes after the people putting those together, they might be cutting the throat of their parents or grandparents, or people like yourself. So many things are intertwined, it is never as simple as just "going after the fat cats." Sometimes if you do enough study, you find the fat cats are actually YOU.

And remember, that as little as you may feel you are with whatever you have tied up in the market, their is a total entitlement class that think YOU ARE THE PROBLEM and would love to WRECK YOU, take your money, and leave YOU destitute. So while you might like to take down the "fat cats" ,some people consider YOU a fat cat. It's all relative.

Best to not point fingers and deal mostly with what you can deal with. It is never as simple as people think.

MAB

I think this person knows what he's talking about:

JIM ROGERS Financial Calamity The WORLD is Heading for FINANCIAL ARMAGEDDON Prepare!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN_XQAFtU6M

PS. And he isn't a pastor...but investor

This month is going to be the make or break month. The world is so connected that what happens in China affects us over here. Scary.

Sorry folks that the above link I gave was not working. I found this one that should work for anyone interested. If you listen I only ask that you listen to the entire message. This is not to scare but to prepare just in case for my all my friends here who I dearly love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbCIPFktGWU

Keep in mind when you hear Rabbi Cahn say schmeetah (it is actually spelled shemitah) which means Sabbath year or 7th year. There is a pattern of 7 years that is better explained in the book "The Harbinger".

He makes a point to say "we are not survivalists we are revivalists"

Please listen to the ENTIRE message!!!

Thank you Lynn. I believe judgment is coming very soon. A woman is now in jail because she refused to issue marriage license to same sex partners, this fulfills prophesy that says Christians will be jailed for their beliefs. As in the days of Noah so it will be in the last days. Sodom and Gomorra were judged because of the same immorality that is happening today in back sliding Christian countries. Even so, come Lord Jesus come.

Aw, Well Lynn,
I quit listening to rumors a long time ago. While I was in the Navy and deployed on the Roosevelt, an Aircraft Carrier, there was a rumor that we were going to go to General Quarters at 3 A.M. So, me and my buddy, we were pretty young at the time, decided we would just stay up for it. No reason the turn in. Well 3 A.M. came and went and no General Quarters! Everett, you have got to stop listening to rumors!

One cannot behave like the end of times is imminent. If you believe in the "idea", then that is fine...you believe it will happen but the timing is entirely out of your hands. You can try to pinpoint "when", and even obsess about it, but it only leads to dysfunctional behaviour we have all seen played out time and again...in fact I read an article that ISIS is actually trying to consciously script "the end of times" in their behaviour

I bought into the market during the second day of the drop...grabbing a nice yield of close to 8%. It is a company I had my eyes on for some time (its only business is royalty based financing) and when it dropped, I acted. So I don't care if it drops a bit more (it has actually rebounded nicely) because I will get an on going monthly dividend of almost 8% (annualized).

If you only think about end of times, you base all your decisions on its inevitability...so why invest? I happen to think all our best results as mankind come about because of hope, curiosity, forward thinking, ...and that if things go sour, we also have a tremendous capacity to cope.

As far as Ms Davis goes, my take is that a thrice divorced four times married individual has absolutely no moral authority to dictate anything in the area of personal relationships and marriage. Even if she had not been divorced, I would have agreed with the judge's decision to send her to jail.

My argument goes along these lines.

If, as a Christian, you use the Bible and what you believe is the Word of God to judge anyone, you are on very shaky ground. For one, the Bible is full of contradiction and anachronisms. We do not stone people or pluck out eyes anymore, and Jesus himself was well known for forgiving sinners. Christians believe he died on the cross for our sins and believe our God is a forgiving God.

We also know that as humans, we are fallible creatures...prone to pettiness, vindictiveness, acting rashly and without understanding...

So who are we to judge? Why not trust in God to do what God will do in these circumstances? Who are we to take the judgement out of God's hands?

Why not embrace them as fellow human beings, forgive them if we BELIEVE they have sinned, and leave everything up to God?

Or is your faith so shallow that you think that God will not do what you BELIEVE God will do? Or are you so arrogant to believe that you should be cop, judge and jury in cases where you BELIEVE someone crossed the line?

And what business is it of mine\yours anyway?

John, point out where the bible is full of contradictions. People say this all the time but when pressed to point them out, they fail.

First off Everett, I do not mean what I said in a bad way.

Even though the Bible may have been written by those inspired by God, they were still fallible individuals. Furthermore, the Bible stems from early times and has been revised and translated and injected with language and meaning from later times...

In addition, things such as context, customs, viewpoints, limits to understanding given then known facts and principles, literal and figurative language etc must also be considered

So although I respect the Bible as an important book, one full of historical events and important lessons, I cannot take it and use it to judge and punish someone, nor would I use it to try and pinpoint when what might happen in the future.

I've read a tremendous amount of history, philosophy etc, and would label myself as a Humanist who believes in God and practices Christianity in the Lutheran tradition, who respects all faiths and people of goodwill, and who tries hard to adhere to the 10 Commandments, The Golden Rule, and Aristotle's Golden Mean.

Now directly to your charge...rather than fulfil that task I will simply say Google Bible contradictions. There is lots of information there...from both those pointing out contradictions and those defending and reconciling them.

I would say this supports my thesis. The fact these types of discussions exist, and the fact both sides are able to make good points and do make them, leads to the conclusion that in judging others through the lens of God, we MUST leave the final say up to God.

And was it not Jesus who said "let those without sin cast the first stone" ?

Now having said all this, I fully respect your right to believe what you believe, to live according to that belief, and to present your opinion based on those beliefs. What I would not condone is you punishing someone based on that belief, or on the basis of your belief, deny someone basic human rights.

Humm,
Everett,
In one place in the Bible, maybe more than one, it says: WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD, or some such statement. In another place it says: JUDGE NOT THAT YOU MAY BE JUDGED or some such statement. Now Everett you have to come down on one side of that issue or the other. Organized Religion for better or worse, has judged us all sinners. Now like it or not, that is a contradiction. Because all the words in the Bible were written by sinners how can you believe any of it? After all we have all fallen short of the glory of God and know nothing from nothing. Why do you think there are so many different brands of religion out there? All professing that they are the true one.
Even the 10 Commandments gives you a contradiction right out of the gate. Thou shall have no other Gods before me. Everett, here is God professing there are other Gods out there, or more likely, Moses didn't think it thru when he wrote down those words, no?
But just add drama to the game, Moses didn't just get those 10 commandments, he had to go up on a mountain, and to add more drama, there was a burning bush! There is no doubt in my mind that there is a lot of polishing of the Bible over the centuries, and it is still being polished. So good buddy you have a lot of new questions to ask your preacher, if he takes questions!

You said a lot of truths here and I commend you for such an articulate expression. I went from a Jewish Kid to nothing till I was fifty to studying about Jesus and other religions and BACK to being a NON Religionist who believes in God. I also DON'T believe in the end times Prophecy. I don't believe all my Jewish Relatives are in Hell as my Brilliant Bible Believing best friend says. He weasels out of it by saying that they put themselves in hell by NOT Accepting Jesus as their personal Savior and it's NOT Jesus or God saying that. That's ridiculous as they didn't know anything about Jesus or the Grace Story. SO I could go on and on and always wind up pissing somebody off who is a Purist on all the Jesus Stuff so I'll stop......B

Right ON Ray.....wow....great stuff.....and SOOOOO True.
Religion is causing most of the problems on Earth and it's about primitive crap.. GOD is GOD and He created ALL THIS and it's very cool BUT IF you want to talk to HIM or PRAY to HIM just do it.....don't need an Ornate Building or a Pastor Middleman for that. Pray and HE Hears.....all the rest is about MONEY, POWER and CONTROL. It's really awful....I wrote a very cool song about this called I'M A BELIEVER at barrydbutler channel on youtube. Thanks for your cogent responses Great Stuff.....made my day.

There is but one true God, but man has invented many gods. Man must have something to look up to, to worship. We even make rock stars or sports heroes our gods. We make them out of stone or precious metals, even flesh and bone. The one true God is invisible, seems we can't believe unless we can see. So God sent His Son Jesus Christ so we could see, but He told man that they were sinners, they didn't like that so they crucified Him. Man don't like the truth unless it lines up with man's definition of truth.

Ray, you are right to a point, we are all sinners, we live in a fallen world where the Devil and his demons have full access to us, urging us to reject God because he wants to be god. God knows we have no hope of ever making it on our own, that is why He sent Jesus to die in our place, to pay for our sins that we could never pay for, that part of God's plan is now complete, all we have to do is accept God's plan and believe that Jesus is God's Son and that His sacrifice has paid for our sins, once you do that, you are saved from the consequences of your sins. God has made it so easy for us, still man will not accept, preferring to continue in sinful ways that lead to final destruction.

By the way Barry, Jesus made all that was made. You can pray to God but I'd advise doing it through His Son Jesus. No man can come unto the Father unless he comes through the Son, and no man can come to the Son unless called by the Holy Spirit. He who tries to climb up any other way is a robber and a thief. Barry, the Jewish people are still God's chosen people. Yes they made some mistakes along the way and didn't do what God wanted them to do, but God doesn't go back on His word. He made a covenant with Abraham, the father of the Jewish nation, and God will not break that covenant. The Jews were suppose to take the Gospel to the Gentiles but did not, they also worshipped false gods, they have been punished as no other nation on earth, but God still loves them, and He will save a remnant, and protect the rest through the tribulations.

I judge no one, except by the word, I am a sinner like the rest of you, only difference is I am saved by grace, because I believe and trust in God's word. I try my best to obey God's law, but I fail at times, but I know my failures are already paid for, I just have to acknowledge them and He is faithful and just to forgive them.

Any mistakes in the bible are trivial, usually through translating errors going from Greek to English. Man is fallible but God is not. Some religious groups (usually cults) have made changes in their bibles to suit their false doctrine. They are playing a dangerous game.

I don't want to appear Holier than thou, I learned the truth the hard way, though never a great sinner, I was still a sinner. When I started studying the bible I realized I was a sinner and only the blood of Jesus could erase that sin. I was a sinner but I was no fool, I did what the bible said I must do to be born again. Read John's gospel chapter three. Jesus made it very plain that we must be born again, born from above, born of the Spirit. Study, (don't just read), the word, your eternity depends on it.

Humm, Yes,
Blame it all on someone else Everett. In the old cowboy movies there was always a good guy and a bad guy. Without the bad guy there was no story. now in Professional Wrestling the same thing. You had to have a villain or nobody would come to the "Matches".

So in Religion we have Jesus and Lucifer. You really need that bad guy! So the rumor goes, at one time things were perfect in Heaven. But were they? If things were perfect in Heaven they would have had to be perfect for Lucifer too! So what happened?

I Greek Myth or Norse Myth or some such thing we have Achilles and the Achilles Heel. And in Religion we have Myth, Superstition, more myth and superstition, etc, etc, and etc!

Everett, have you read the first Verse of Matthew lately?
Humm, Whazzat Everett, we are all sinners to a point? Well that's a new one on me. I thought there was no division?????

SO let me get this straight.....Jesus wipes away ALL our sins before we accept him AND after no matter HOW Disgusting they may be like Murder and Embezzlement....etc???? IS that right?

How does that work.....Makes NO Sense and I'm living in the 21st Century.....Chosen People....? come on the Jews have been slaughtered for centuries so I'd hate to see what God's rath is for un chosen people. Everette you can believe what YOU want and I'll believe what I want and we'll see how it shapes out AFTER we die. I don't believe missing the mark is a sin it's being human....And the second coming nonsense with the Rapture and Tribulation might make for a blockbuster movie but man I was born but not last night. ONE God and I Pray to HIM.....

Now what was this thread supposed to be about? Oh yeah, the Stock Market.

John

Oh well, I've done my best to make you see but the blind will not open their eyes. The word tells me there comes a time when I should not cast my pearls before swine. Also you will be judged by every word that proceeds from your mouth. None are as blind as those that refuse to see and none as deaf as those that refuse to hear.

Interesting Everett that you can so easily characterize those who do not share your beliefs as deaf, blind swine, knowing you can seek refuge in your belief that particular sin has been paid for.


I expect those TV Christian evangelists who profess to share the word of God, constantly demanding donations and bleeding their viewers dry, and living the high life on their money, feel much the same way....as do those high profile evangelist who engaged in extra marital affairs. Acknowledge my sin and it is forgiven.


And what about Torquemada. Do you think he also used this justification when he condemned to death those who did not agree with the then Catholic dogma? Then again, he probably did not see these murders as a sin because those he sentenced were deaf, blind swine to him.


You know it becomes so easy to condemn others when you can justify excluding them and de-humanize them. It is, in fact, one of the time honoured strategies in war. De-humanize your opponent. It makes it so much easier to justify killing them.


Now I do not believe your intent is bad. You see your mission as one of saving others, and I really do respect your right to believe as you do, but you crossed the line in your condemnation (or alternatively your tacit agreement of condemnation) of those who do not agree with you....something I cannot let slip.


What is it what Jesus (and many other faiths) said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?


Tell me, how would you feel if a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jain, Mormon or non evangelical Christian condemned you for your beliefs, quoted their scripture, and used it to deprive you of your rights?

Well John,
We are either discussing the past or the future. Isn't it funny that some try to get rich but then it will be easier for a rich man to get thru the eye of a needle than get into Heaven. On the other hand there is nothing wrong with playing the Stock Market and getting rich! Humm, reminds me of a song, THE POOR PEOPLE OF PARIS! Go look it up. Meantime I am still trying to get rich! Heaven can wait!

I Googled the lyric Ray. Does have a great underlying message. I see Dean Martin did a version...will have to chase it down.

The Poor People of Paris. By Les Baxter. Well it was in the middle 50's that it was being played on the Radio!

Actually John, that is EXACTLY what Muslims are doing to other people. And they are just killing, beheading, torturing, stoning,drowning and setting people on fire for exactly this thing.

That is why I stay completely out of these discussions. I don't ever want to be seen doing those exact same things.

MAB

Muslim EXTREMISTS, primarily those of the Wahabbi or Salafi sects, definitely do as you and I say Marc, and they taint all of Islam....just as those crazy Christian pastors Terry Jones and Fred Phelps tainted Christianity with their hate towards everyone who was not like them.

Unlike you, I cannot stay out of these discussions because I have a deep seated need to promote tolerance and respect among all people of faith and goodwill. I believe I can fully believe in God and live my faith and still respect and embrace those who do not believe in God the same way as I do.

In fact I feel my faith in the God of Abraham is strengthened when I see others worship Him according to their histories, cultures and traditions, and when I see Hindus, Buddhists and other faiths practice their faiths and beliefs in their Supreme Being or "Ultimate Reality" ....not because I feel my way is better, but because the fact that they are living their faith means God has engaged them and touched them and they are responding to that.

Faith in God is not a zero sum game where my faith is only validated via the invalidation of someone else's ...where my faith is only enhanced by diminishing someone else's

To me, acting in God's name while harming another is the ultimate in hypocracy

Back to regularly scheduled programmimg.

Just saw that none other than Warren Buffet put money into the market in half billion dollar chunks when the market dipped, adding positions in companies he likes.

John, I was just quoting a verse from the bible. My intent is not to hurt anyone, just do what my beliefs says I should do. If I see someone heading for destruction, I'm suppose to warn them of dangers ahead, if they do not listen, then there is little else I can do. They won't be able to point their finger at me and say why didn't you tell me. Most people say live and let live, which seem good advice, except when it becomes live and let die, people perish for the lack of knowledge.

Good morning Everett

I know you meant well and said as much. I've known you for many years now and you've always been polite and giving and humble so I have no issue with you at all...except...

....you did quote scripture, a scripture you wholeheartedly believe in, that essentially demonizes and de humanizes those who do not believe as scripture would have them believe.

So I have far less of an issue with you than I have with the passages you referenced.

I’m sure I’ll be sorry I entered this discussion…

The people prior to the resurrection of Jesus were better off then. All they had to do was believe in God and live righteous lives. I believe in God and try to live an honorable life, but not living in the Old Testament time period, I’m out of luck. Why would a God that loves us all equally have two different sets of standards to enter Heaven? Bottom-line, God ultimately will decide – not mere interpreters of the Bible. There are many very Biblical scholars that disagree with each other on the subject of salvation. All of them sure their way is the only way. The complexities of life are mind boggling. I’m sure there is more to life/ afterlife than a simple trick in faith to salvation.

Best, John

Your last sentence pretty much covers it john

Well,
The Markets are slightly flat to a bit positive today 9 September 2015. Word is don't put all your Eggs in One Basket and don't Count your Chickens before they hatch!

I don't have time for the chickens Ray. I'll eat the eggs.

John

Though I wouldn't trust your afterlife on my opinion Wy.

Best, John