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I've read the book twice and found this link.

"The Harbinger" (a New York Times Bestseller)

https://youtu.be/_GyZZmhE66k

Some will think this folly
Some will think it truth
Draw conclusions for yourself
I promise you'll be moved
But all I ask is if you view
You view from start to end
Don't miss a word or miss a fact
I only ask this friend!!!

Lynn, thank you for this. How many will take time to watch it, maybe a few, how many will believe it, fewer still. The US once was a very strong Christian nation blest by God but like all nations (and people) that become rich and powerful, they start to depend on themselves as the source of that power and wealth, they start to turn away from the true source, which is God. Like the nation of Israel that God blest over and over again, they turned away and God had to bring judgment on them time after time to get them to turn back. God will not be mocked.

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the last days. Sin was rampant in Noah's time, they didn't listen to Noah and his warnings until the flood came. The Jews didn't listen to many of their prophets either until they were taken into captivity. Will the US listen, I doubt it.

The Bible even says there will be a great apostasy before the final days. Very few people even read the Bible but it seems everyone has an opinion on it. Even if you are not religious, the Bible teachings are the cornerstone of Western civilization and many (if not most) of our principles can be derived from it. Most people can't be bothered to read, and those who do will spend countless hours reading their favorite author or genre but will never take the time to read the most published and arguably the most important book ever written.

I didn't watch the entire video yet, but I have watched many like it (I will take the time to watch after I move and get settled in). Whether or not you believe Bible prophesies, it is clear that there are some disturbing patterns in global events and U.S. policy. I fear for the future of my children and their children.

Peace,
TC

There have been Gloom and Doomers thru out recorded history predicting every type of disaster you could mention. Just a few years ago there was a pastor predicting the end was here. I think it was first May and when that didn't happen he revised it to November. When that didn't happen he "Retired" I think he is now deceased. It has been mentioned from time to time that you could take any set of cirimstances in the Bible and predict the "End Times" Forget it. You ain't gonna get off that easy!

You are right, you can't predict it. That being said, I believe our kids/grandkids are in for a rough time...

Peace,
TC

The Bible is about as accurate as Lord of the Rings and Shades of Gray. If you like stories where an invisibile being mass murders people and animals because he gave them free will and they disobeyed him then great. I think people see the bible for what it really is and that's why people don't read it.

The bible says we perish for the lack of knowledge.

I used to worry about my salvation but no more. I just do the best I can and never worry about the consequenses. I know when this life ends another will begin. There have been instances just recently where people have remembered past lives. Being the best I can be is of course important.

Billy Graham, Bless his Lil Ole Pea picking heart says you can do nothing to save your self but says you need to do something to save yourself! Now there's a News Flash!

Jesus saves but we have to believe, confess and accept. So simple but so hard for some to do.

Aw,Humm,
Religion is a great thing. Too bad nobody has tried it. Now who said Jesus Saves? I think that was him. Anybody read the first paragraph of Matthew lately? Written some time after the event. AND, Jesus never wrote down anything! He finally realised the Folly of his ways after he was on the Cross. If he was God, why did he ask. My God, why have you abandoned me? Read it Everett! The truth is all there in the Bible, all you have to do is check it out. When you get it wrong, it shows up sooner or later. Then people leave one church and join another. Well ,it is after all pretty harmless. Geronimo!

Ray, at that moment all the sins of the world were piled on Jesus, God can not look upon sin, so He turned away, and Jesus felt the unbearable loneliness of the absence of God, which all unrepentant sinner will feel.

It would appear that you read your bible but you get a different truth out of it than I do. Why is that? You must read it with an open mind and heart seeking the real truth, not the truth you want to believe to suit your way of thinking. The Jews were blinded to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah so that the Gospel would be taken to the Gentiles. Are you Jewish Ray? Or atheist? What do you believe in? A line from a song says "he who believes in nothing will fall for anything".

Everett,
What do you do when you hear something that is wrong? Do you buy it, Hook, Line, and Sinker or do you check it out for yourself?Martin Luther heard, knew, things were wrong in the Church and checked it out for himself! That was before the Bible was translated into German.

It seems the Hierarchy in the Church were selling something, not sure what the called them, buying there way into Heaven. No kidding Everett, that's what they believed at the time!

There is still a lot of fiction out there passed off as gospel in organized religion. However, I am happy with that, as long as you keep it to yourself, But when you post it here, expect it to be examined for what it is. There is about 8 Major Religions out there as well as a slew of minor ones, all assuming they are the correct one.

Now let me tell you about my mother, (Now Deceased) and my older brother, still living. My mother got involved with the 7Th Day Avantist Church. My brother got involved with the Calvery Babtist Church. Now the 7Th people celebrate their Sabbath on Saturday. The Calvery people celebrate on Sunday. my brother cut the grass for my mother but she got extremely upset over my brother cutting her grass on the Sabbath! He of course worked and had to do it when he could! There's your Religion for you!

I once met a guy, A catholic who, lo and behold married a Protasant girl. He said, his mother gave him holy hell for marrying out of his faith! There's your religion for you Everett!
Wise up!

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Wise words spoken by Jesus. More things have been done in the name of religion (good and bad) than anything else. Man has used religion to his own advantage for centuries. Man's heart is evil. I am not religious as you understand the word, I am Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ. Even the most religious or atheistic persons in the world can find no fault in His preaching. If the world followed His preaching, we'd have a much better world. But man's heart is evil and he will follow after the god of this world, Satan. Man is either a follower of Christ or a follower of his enemy, there is no natural ground.

We are under grace and have been since Jesus came to earth, which means man can do much of what he wants without being judged and condemned by God. His Son Jesus took the punishment for our sins to the cross, but those that won't accept and believe that, will die in their sins and pay for their own sins after death. God wants no one to die in their sins, so you can ask for forgiveness on your death bed and it will be granted. God allows us to govern ourselves and make our own laws, see what a mess we have made of that. But soon He is going to come back and judge this world and set up His own government and rule with a rod of iron. Even so come quickly Lord Jesus.

Whazzat?
Man has used religion to his own advantage for centuries.

You wouldn't kid a fellow would you Everett?

Jesus Christ was a great fictional character but so was Atticus Finch & so was Eric Taylor. Good men to look up to and aspire to be like.

I know Him personally so he's not fictitious.

I guess I write songs because I prefer shorter messages.

For those who don't wish to watch all 41 minutes, the point comes at 37 minutes in - repent and be saved. turn away from evil and turn back to God. For the US as a nation that is. Which leaves a lot of people in the world out of it. It also connects me with a whole bunch of people who will never repent or be saved. I could be in trouble.
While I don't doubt their sincere motivations for the greater good, for folks who believe that you cannot serve both God and money they sure talked about em both a lot.

Secular history mentions Him so He is not fictional. You might like to think so but one day you will bow down and call Him Lord, only thing then it will be too late for you. He will be your judge, not your saviour. Who is Atticus Finch and Eric Taylor?

Aw, Well,
No Aaron, no doubt Jesus was real. However a lot of stuff attributed to him since is uh, aw, mostly Fiction. At best he was a confused young man. No doubt a lot of stuff over the Centuries was, is Polished, Repaired, to the hilt. Plenty of people even today are just as confused. You have to learn to separate the Sheep from the Goats, fact from fiction. Jesus was born at the beginning of the Astrological Age of Pisces. Pisces is ruled by the Planet Neptune. Of which includes illusion, confusion, deception, and self deception. But Religion is pretty harmless for the most part except when you start killing other people over it.

He could have been real but since I don't believe in god it's kind of hard for me to believe any of those stories.

Or when you die there is nothing, but you won't be aware of that because you won't exist anymore in any shape of physical, spiritual or mental form.

Or maybe you're right and he is real. Then I am gonna get pwnt

You have a 50 % shot of being right. But so do I.

Atticus Finch is a lawyer in the book To Kill A Mockingbird and Eric Taylor is a high school football coach in Texas on the tv show Friday Night Lights.

I think it takes more faith to believe there is no God than to believe there is a God. Even scientist who like to prove everything with a slide rule, are becoming to believe there has to be a God. The more they study into nature and outer space, the more they are convinced that this just didn't happen by any explosion or through evolution.

You have every right to believe as you want, as wrong as that is, as I do to believe as I do, and as you say, if I am wrong, which I am not, then I've lived a good life, done little harm, and left the world, hopefully, a better place. But if I am right I will face a God who is pleased with me, but you will face a God displeased with you. So before I would write God off, I would seriously check Him out, and the best place to start is by reading His word, then I'd study nature and see His hand at work to provide for His children here on earth. God wants no one to be lost, that is why He sent His son to pay for our sins. If you don't believe, then you are calling God a liar and the two billion Christians believe in vain. Without faith it is impossible to please God. I can't prove to you God exist but you can't prove that He does not exist. I believe I have more to show that He does exist than you can show that He does not exist. The difference is faith.

I always believed in God, even in my younger days, but as I started searching for proof, I found it in His word, in nature, in people, in answered prayers. He and His angels are all around us all the time, we can not see them because our eyes have limited vision. God gave man a limited time to accept Him as God and a limited time to govern ourselves, that time is soon to run out.

If it's true that god will forgive anybody and the catch is they only have to believe in him, why would I want anything to do with him? I haven't harmed anyone. So guys who raped little kids but repented while they were in prison are better in his eyes than me? That's how I know God isn't real.

The bible says he who says there is no God is a fool. It also say not to call anyone a fool, so I'll not say it. But if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch. I would investigate every avenue before declaring God does not exist. Seek and you shall find, knock and it will be opened unto you. I can lead a horse to water but I can't force it to drink.

The bible says he who says there is no God is a fool. It also say not to call anyone a fool, so I'll not say it. But if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch. I would investigate every avenue before declaring God does not exist. Seek and you shall find, knock and it will be opened unto you. I can lead a horse to water but I can't force it to drink.

Everett,
So far how many Sermon's have you written? You really should get into the Pulpit and start Preaching. You're mostly wasting your time here.

My own thoughts on this is the bible was written by many from the old Testament to the new Testament which to many was an updated version of the old or a continuation but this was a few thousand years back and from those words that was written came religion which to me proves one thing, the human mind or maybe that should be the written word created god and not the other way around, the written word can be a powerful weapon especially when those words has many followers but the bible has never been updated since the new Testament and that will be its downfall, already showing signs of it.

Again my own thoughts but religions purpose in existence a few thousand years back was to control and dictate how and what way humans should live because back then there was no proper form of law and order and also no proper form of education, also if you read from history religion has never won wars because its still fighting them and for that reason it certainly has been involve in the cause of many of them.

The bible and other so call holy books is long over due an update and if religious people don't understand the reason why that should happen then that is probably due to the reason why these books where written in the first place, modern times vs words that refuse to break from the chains of the past.

Again just my own thoughts on this.

You are right Ray, a person can only beat his head against a stone so many times before getting a headache. Even the bible says to not cast your pearls before swine. But I live in hope that some may see the light, even in darkness, light will over come.

Pat, God is Holy, He never changes, He is the same today as yesterday. Man is forever changing to satisfy the demands of a sinful world. Things that were disgraceful a few years ago is not accepted as normal. God's law written in the bible is still the law that God will judge the world by, not by weak laws brought in by man.

Lynn,
Thank you for caring to post this and being a little vulnerable in the process.
Everett,
Thank you for taking the bushel off of the lamp so that it may shine on all who are in the house. Light can be very revealing.
Skip

Thanks swestern, glad to see some appreciate the light of the gospel.

First off, one religion or faith is not going to save the world nor the individual. This is not to attack or downplay the Christian narrative, it simply means religion and faith are the wrong tools if making the world a better place is your aim.

I believe in God, but I also believe that no one faith has a monopoly on God, nor has God "chosen" any one person or group of people as more worthy than the rest.

I believe that God allows all people to worship and practice their faith as they found Him. I also believe that if you are a person of faith, that you should respect all people of faith and goodwill, even those who worship God in a different way.

This recognizes that EVERY INDIVIDUAL has a different perception of who God is and what God means to their lives...even those who say Jesus is their saviour will not agree among themselves about the finer details of his life and death...yet despite evidence to the contrary, would argue items on the basis of faith.

Faith is the basis for ALL religion. It recognizes we simply do not have a nice clean answer about God and religion that can be considered a universal truth.

It's simply the way our physical universe was created.

The clearest scientific evidence we have, based on physics and astronomy, is that what light we see today, "sprang into existence" just over 13 Billion years ago, and because our universe appears to be expanding.

That has led to the Big Bang Theory, because if the universe is expanding, it must have been smaller back then...and because we can see that light moving outward as if from a single point, well we have concluded it MAY have sprung from a singularity.

But we simply do not know, and we are incapable of knowing what went on before the Big bang, and we are not fortune tellers beyond what we can reasonable expect our futures to bring us.

What all we believers do take on faith is that God must be outside of this universe in terms of existence and experience and this is certainly possible.

In fact, if we plot known and unknown on a three dimensional Cartesian model, it becomes clear that doubt and faith are both assymptotic and in our relevant volume there is far more unknown than known.

So in my mind, atheism is simply illogical, because it assumes away whatever is not known or knowable. Agnosticism, which says "I'm not sure and it is not provable" is at least an honest in its assessment, but once again ignores the unknown and unknowable which creates a huge volume of possibility and even the notion of mathematical probability.

But beyond this, we can only ascribe to God those characteristics we have heard from our Prophets and respective faiths and those we personally believe are attributable to our own personal conception of God.

Our own personal conception stems largely from our birthright, from our examinations and introspections, exposure to ideas and and from our own personal journeys through life

So faith is a personal attribute, and people of similar faith and ideas will naturally come together into communities of believers.

The problem arises when these communities decide that only they have "The Answer" or "The Road To Salvation" or are "Worthy Beyond Others"....and this is a real result. It is why we have different faiths, each fractured around sometimes very profound differences, so entrenched so as to cause deep friction and animosity among followers.

So no, faith is not the answer and the answer is DEFINITELY NOT trying to convert others to our beliefs, or presenting our ideologies as superior

The answer is people of goodwill, acting in concert, engaging in activities that make our neighbourhoods, our communities, and our world a better place for all.

It is about practical, on the ground plans and activities....embracing others and learning more about them, engaging in discussions with them, working together with them on worthy projects.

I am thankful that for the most part our debate/conversation thus far has indeed been kept civil and I appreciate that.

I recommend reading the book "The Harbinger" or purchasing the DVD if you are not a reader. You will devour the book and not be able to put it down. The facts cannot be disputed. Some I already knew to be true and others I looked up and found them to be true and factual as well. Someone I know who read the book said it was statistically impossible for all those things to be coincidental and I concur.

The next Shemitah which is Elul 29 (Jewish calendar) is Sept. 13, 2015 on our calendar this year. What will happen on this day remains to be seen. Will it be a devastating ISIS attack, a storm, an economic collapse that we've never seen the likes of, or something else?? Will something even happen? We will see.

Phil Kessel was #81 on The Toronto Maple Leafs and he was just traded to the Pittsburgh Penguins. There are 18 letters in Pittsburgh Penguins. 18 is 81 backwards. He finished 18th on the all time scoring list of the Toronto Maple Leafs and scored 181 goals with the team.

Does this mean something sinister is going on? No. It doesn't.

I guarantee you nothing sinsiter is going to happen on September 13th either.

Does anyone else see the irony of a rabbi writing a book about future predictions and religious people following his every word? He's making money off this and is the definiton of a prophet. I'm pretty sure he broke a few commandments there and so did the so called christians who bought his book and believe his tripe. And these same people have the audacity to warn people about atheism. At least atheists don't follow quacks who claim to know when the end of the world is coming.

-angry atheist drops mic-

-angry atheist picks mic back up-

Oh and it gets better because apparently gay people marrying is the final sign religious people needed that confirms Armageddon is closer than ever. Yeah, you can marry 3 times and as long as it's to another person of the opposite sex then it's ok marriage isn't broken! Oh man people make me laugh. And people say they can't trust atheists. That atheists are illogical. That's super. And maybe some atheists are full of [naughty word removed] but at least they aren't lunatics who wish for the end of the world.

Seriously what kind of psychopaths hope for billions of people to die? Oh wait' I know.

-angry atheist throws mic into the sun and obliterates it-

Aaron. The end of the world does not mean the end of the earth. The earth is this heavenly body we live on, the world is our system of governments. We all know our system of government, be it a democracy or dictatorship is corrupt in most of it's dealings. It favours the rich over the average person and most in government use it to further their own end. Democracy is suppose to be the best form of government, of the people, by the people and for the people, sound good but far from the truth. It's government by the rich and powerful, for the rich and powerful, the average person only comes into play every four years for election purposes. What ever party is elected is controlled from behind the scenes by the rich and powerful.

I could try to explain God's plan for man, which is to live free from slavery, but you don't believe in God so I would be wasting my time.

Whazzat,
Everett you could explain God's Plan for man but people wouldn't believe it. I thought it was for man to remain in the Garden of Eden forever and never venture past the Pearly Gates. Well according to rumor that didn't last long! And now who get's all the blame? Man of course. We, who God gave no brain are expected to fix the problem! Well, fat chance! But you and others blame one group for the problem. Sorry. Guess again. God's perfect plan. He better go back to the drawing board and start over.

Billions of people including your friends, family members, neighbours are supposedly going to die because they don't believe in your God. You can't skip around genocide. That's what it'll be. You can't justify genocide either.

Hey Everett, you talk about dictators and man ruling earth unfairly but how is it fair telling someone to believe in God or else they'll die? Isn't that what ISIS is doing? Believe what I believe or we'll kill you? I believe it is. So what makes ISIS any different than your God? He can get away with it because he's such a good' kind God? So by believing in this you agree with mass murder, genocide of humans that are not like minded as you. You can't talk your way out of this Everett. It's what you believe in.

Neither Jesus or those who follow Him, say or contend that you will be killed if you don't believe what they believe. Where do you get your theological information from? I'm not sure whether it was in this thread or another one you stated doubt that Jesus ever even existed. Even the most ardent skeptics don't deny he lived. Your arguments show you don't even have the most rudimentary understanding of Biblical history, what Jesus taught and did during his life on Earth or what Christians believe. Even the label Christianity is a misnomer. The early followers of Jesus simply called themselves "The Way." The label "Christians" was a derogatory label given them by those who opposed them.

Also, why are you so angry about a creator you don't even believe exists? I'm not going to hijack Lynn's thread here but I'd be happy to have an honest and civil theological and historical discussion with you privately if you would have an open mind and willingness to do so.

Cheers,
Steve

Jesus might have existed but you'll be hard pressed to find any physical proof that he was gods son. Or that he was ressurcted and killed on a cross. All you have are bible scriptures that could have been written by anyone. You have no proof of anything. Let's say It's all real though. Actions speak louder than words. Your God already committed genocide and mass murder a few times because people were not behaving the way he wanted them to. I don't need to be preached to by you or Everett but if it is real you cannot deny the genocide that is to come brought on by your god to the non believers which is no different than what ISIS is doing. It's all in The Bible.

Aaron,
I have no mind to preach to anyone. However I'm always willing to have an honest and civil discussion as I said. I can only share some ideas as to why I believe what I believe and the foundation for said belief. I was a skeptic once like you but through some years of research I changed my mind. I can only relate my story and what happened to me in my life to someone who would like to at least make an informed decision. Then it's up to them. What I can't do is have a discussion with a closed mind which apparently is the case with you. I hope as you grow older and mature some you'll want to be more informed in your decision making process rather than thinking you know it all. You don't need to try to convince everyone else that you're the smartest person in the room all the time. I hope you'll lose all the anger as well. No one else cares and it only eats at the one who holds it.

Steve

This is exactly what people do when I bring up the genocide brought on by their righteous god. They change the subject or turn it around on me. One thing you can count on christians for and that is their predictability.

The fact that this has happened to you before should tell you something Aaron

D'ya think that attacking others by claiming your belief trumps theirs might be the cause?

Now if you want to have an intelligent conversation with someone instead of constantly being the personification of a one sided diatribe, perhaps you should actually take the time to listen to others and respect what they believe in their faith to be true.

In the spirit of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I urge you to continue with your examination of truth in a less confrontational manner because I really believe that as much as the unexamined life is not worth living, unexamined faith is not worth practicing.

So I wish for you great conversations. Just don't make them one sided.

Steve you are in no way hijacking my thread. This thread is a "we" thread w/different people checking in. Feel at home. Aaron you have a free will and no one wants to take that away from you. I am sorry you are feeling angry or upset as I never intended that to be the outcome of this topic, infact quite the contrary.

If you refer to the original top post you'll see I prefaced it with a little rhyme where I do say "some will call it folly" and "some will call it truth" and the conversation is exactly what I expected when I posted it. I knew it would ruffle some feathers but still felt lead to share. It is simply playing itself out.

For the most part I was sharing w/believers and yes even unbelievers to simply consider it's content. It is certainly interesting and each person will draw from it what they want. My hope was that if they did read the book or watch the video link (or both) they would finish it entirely to absorb every detail.

A while back, I had a songwriting partner. For the most part, we were pretty much in-line with each other when it came to things non-music related, but we differed on "God/god/Goddesses, or the lack thereof:-)

Every Sunday, starting around noon and usually ending up in his basement 'til 2 a.m. and every Tuesday, from the time we got off work until some time after midnight, we would work together, jam and write.

We soon realized that if our time together was going to be productive, then we had to not let ourselves get distracted by extraneous arguments, ummm, I mean conversations. So we came up with a "Three Beat Rule":

Beat 1. Pose a question/hypothesis.

Beat 2. Give an answer.

Beat 3. Instigator of Beat 1 gets to counter-point the counter-point.

Then, the subject would get shelved until the next time we got together. We weren't allowed to interrupt each other during any of the "beats". It was STRICTLY point/counter-point/counter-counter-point, and then the subject had to stay on the shelf for a few days...Kinda like hitting a "pause" button.

Our songwriting/band/time of our lives was a hoot & a half!!!

Even though we both eventually moved out of state, our friendship remains strong, as do our personal philosophies, which neither one of us has managed to change in the other....As does our "Three Beat Rule."...Your mileage may vary.

Just sayin'....:-)

Midnite

Rabbi Jonathan Cahn certainly has an imaginative and original interpretation of the Old Testament and America's relationship with Yahweh.

Glibly calling Isaiah 9:10 proof that Israel made a "vow against God" is quite a whopper to begin with. He sees that "vow" against God as an example of Israel's arrogance and refusal to turn back to Yahweh.

He next imagines the United States is being sent the same 9 harbingers Yahweh sent Israel as a warning to turn back to Him or face destruction.

Of course the comparison ignores the fact that Yahweh had a unique relationship with Israel, one that He's never struck up with the United States. There has never been a compact between God and the United States comparable to Yahweh's compact with Israel. Later in the video Cahn contends that both Israel and the United States were consecrated to God at their founding and America is the most Christian nation on earth. Of course this is pure nonsense.

But if you wish to believe that the United States was founded as a Christian nation with a unique relationship to Yahweh, then Cahn's End of the World prophecies might be appealing to you. Of course there's no actual evidence to support such a belief, no matter how popular such a belief may be among some Christians.

Even then, Cahn's analogies between Israel's claimed harbingers and his own current prophecies are pretty strained and speculative to anyone with an analytical mind.

But it makes for a scary story and should be an exciting movie.

John, out of everyone in this thread it was your post that pissed me off.

You said atheism is illogical because it assumes whatever is not known or knowable BUT you cannot know that there is a god any more than I can know there isn't a god. Atheism is as logical as believing in a deity because both sides can't prove [naughty word removed]. If you could prove gods existence you wouldn't need to have faith.