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Earth Laughs In Flowers...long awaited update.
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#1085212 - 06/09/15 11:06 AM Awful  
Joined: May 2008
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Tom Shea Offline
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Tom Shea  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
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Nebraska
I have not listened to country music for months --- listened yesterday to a country station for a hour - awful - just terrible - trite - all sounded the same - gag me with a spoon -- will be months or years before I listen again


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#1085213 - 06/09/15 11:07 AM Re: Awful [Re: Tom Shea]  
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Tom Shea Offline
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Tom Shea  Offline
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Nebraska
it made me sad


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#1085216 - 06/09/15 11:34 AM Re: Awful [Re: Tom Shea]  
Joined: May 2001
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Humm,
Tom, I think you are taking a lot of liberties calling that stuff on the radio Country Music. Honest to G. you wonder who's putting all this stuff out. BUT, I give you Kudos for being so brave and listening for an hour! I can barely listen for 30 seconds.


Ray E. Strode
#1085219 - 06/09/15 11:46 AM Re: Awful [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 879
9ne Offline
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9ne  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
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N.E. of Toronto
LOL! I can picture you two in your Model T's whistling "Wreck Of The Old 97"

Throw out your flat screens, DVD's and microwaves and turn on the radio, "Amos & Andy" are coming on! grin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=170948

I think what makes satan so attractive to others is
that he tastes like chocolate...
....and he played real drums
#1085367 - 06/11/15 04:52 PM Re: Awful [Re: 9ne]  
Joined: Nov 2014
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Chris Erhardt Offline
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Chris Erhardt  Offline
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NYC/L.A.
I wouldn't call it awful. After all, that's what sells these days and is in demand. Music changed. I'd take that awful Country music over some dusty 80s pop or country any day. Luckily you have the choice to turn off the radio and get that ol' record player and vinyl out of the basement ;-)

Who knows, maybe in 20-30 years I'll be desperately looking for those CDs I have (yeah, I know even that's old school by now to own CDs but I do) because music then just sounds awful to me.

Last edited by songcat; 06/11/15 04:53 PM.

https://tunedly.com - Connecting you to the world's best session musicians online.

Contact me at chris@tunedly.com
#1085370 - 06/11/15 06:03 PM Re: Awful [Re: Chris Erhardt]  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
How much music did you listen to of your parents and grandparents growing up? If you grew up in the 50's, 60's or 70's, your grandparents probably grew up with Big Band sounds of Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey. Your parents might have grown up with the Doo wop, Sinatra, then into Elvis, The Beatles, the Rolling Stones. The previous generation HATED that music. It was not music to them and was AWFUL.

Your parents might have HATED the disco boom, or techno pop, punk of the 70's and the 80's. They HATED that music too. To them, it was awful.

If they were all into country, the Jimmie Rodgers and Mother Maybelle Carter people, HATED the HILLBILLY of Hank Williams, the twangy sound of Buck Owens, but the parents might have loved Alabama, who the grandparents and parents just thought were loud rock bands. And believe me, EVERYONE HATED GARTH BROOKS and Shania Twain at first.

Like many of you, I am not fond of a lot that comes out of Nashville. I find myself tuning out a lot of the things that come on the radio. Even some of them being my friends and people I have worked with.

And I find myself relegated to sometimes feeling like a 'relic of yesteryear." Last night and tonight, I have been performing in rounds with Jimmy Payne, who wrote WOMAN, for Gary Puckett and the Union gap, Gerald Smith, who had several hits with Lorre Morgan, and Hall of Famer Jerry Foster, who had many hits back in the late 60's and early 70's. So it is easy to get lost in time.

I would tell you to keep looking and there will be things you find enjoyable. Or find other types of music to entertain or as I always say WRITE YOUR OWN, that you enjoy. Does no use to complain about the industry or the radio. They are promoting what they are because that is what is making them money at this time.

MAB

#1085375 - 06/11/15 06:59 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Sep 2002
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Kurt Fortmeyer Offline
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Kurt Fortmeyer  Offline
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Tennessee
Originally Posted by Marc Barnette

I would tell you to keep looking and there will be things you find enjoyable. Or find other types of music to entertain or as I always say WRITE YOUR OWN, that you enjoy. Does no use to complain about the industry or the radio. They are promoting what they are because that is what is making them money at this time.


Here, here!


I love words. They say so much.

http://kurtfortmeyer.com
#1085376 - 06/11/15 07:03 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Barry David Butler (D)  Offline
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Sebring, Florida USA
Hey Marc....Do you know of ONE site where songwriters can post their songs and singers and bands can go check them out.....IF I was a great talented singer or band that didn't write that great and live in a small town someplace WHERE Would I go to find available songs by guys like us....I can't FIND that Place.....B

#1085378 - 06/11/15 07:24 PM Re: Awful [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Chris Erhardt Offline
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That's my point. I do like Garth though. Even the older songs. lol.


https://tunedly.com - Connecting you to the world's best session musicians online.

Contact me at chris@tunedly.com
#1085384 - 06/11/15 09:04 PM Re: Awful [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Originally Posted by Barry David Butler
Hey Marc....Do you know of ONE site where songwriters can post their songs and singers and bands can go check them out.....IF I was a great talented singer or band that didn't write that great and live in a small town someplace WHERE Would I go to find available songs by guys like us....I can't FIND that Place.....B


Barry, in short. NO. There are not any of those sites. Songwriter and music related sites break down into two camps. Older people trying to get THEIR music out there and complaining about the business, and younger people trying to get THEIR music out there and complaining about the business. Very few are listening to anyone for anything.

As I have tried to explain over and over, there IS NO ONE out there going to the Internet to listen to music in the context you are thinking of. Bands and artists are writers themselves. they are putting THEIR OWN music out there, they are not looking for songs. They have no time or inclination to listen to songs on the Internet from people they do not know. First of all, most of it is garbage. If you don't believe me, take an hour and go to sites where people post music, reverb nation, sound cloud, other sites with unsigned artists. Take an hour and listen to as many sogns as you can. Then tell me what you think. They are not going to take time to go through it. Second of all, they do not think anyone has songs as good as their own.

We sit here on threads like these talking about 'how awful" all the music is, but the people that talk about that, don't realize that THE ARTISTS, THEIR LABELS, THEIR PUBLISHERS, THEIR INVESTORS, THE RADIO STATIONS, THE FANS, DON'T THINK IT'S AWFUL. The one's you see out there are making money, selling tickets and records. So because you don't think it is great, doesn't matter at all. They do. And music is subjective. So you have to make your own.

An artist now is surrounded by people trying to get music to them. If there is a band, the number one complaint is that out of four or five people, most cannot even get their music heard by their own band. If they are any good at all, they are inundated by people, ranging from friends, family, their own co-writers, companies or other people involved in the promotion of those artists, publishers, producers, etc. are surrounding them constantly and there is enormous amount of music coming to them all the time. If they are not good they are so self absorbed in their own songs they don't care.
So my process, is trying to find credible artists, BEFORE they get sucked into the industry, and try to get as much of "my brand' on them before they get picked up by others. Gotta go through a lot of crap to get to that.

There is NO ONE, NADA, period, that I have any knowledge of who is just sitting around LOOKING FOR MUSIC. There are companies like PANDORA, I TUNES, SPOTIFY, and primarily YOU TUBE, that have artists out there, but rudderless songs just sitting there? Not a chance.

Now there are people like all of us here that join these types of sites (most everyone is on several of them at the same time) and post songs, try to get people to listen, but for the most part, if it is outside your friends, no one is going to listen.

The MINDSET OF MUSIC HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED. Everyone is in the game now. And they are empowered by technology to be able to put whatever they do "out there." Everyone who is trying to be involved are doing it themselves, not waiting for someone else to do it for them. That does't make them good at it, but it does allow them to do it.

You have some choices. You can start doing your own research. Find artists you like. Find out about THEM. go to THEIR web sites, contact them personally. Go to shows of people in your area, support other people, try to develop relationships with artists who are physically OUT THERE doing something. You might find some on the net but you are going to have to support THEM first before they hook into you at all. You need them. They don't need you.If you are not willing to do that, you are in for a long wait.

One of the complaints I have from artists I work with is that any time they go to any sites like this, none of the music fits what THEY want to do. If you are just 'throwing things out there'you are pretty much going to miss the entire boat about who these artists are and what they want to say. It is just throwing stuff out there. and that gets "Thrown away."

Or you can do the same thing you are doing. Putting things up, and waiting for them to find you. But if you are seeing 'no sites' where people are just looking for songs," there is a reason for that. No one is LOOKING FOR SONGS. They already have more than they can use.

MAB


Last edited by Marc Barnette; 06/11/15 09:18 PM.
#1085386 - 06/11/15 09:15 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Jun 2011
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Barry David Butler (D)  Offline
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Sebring, Florida USA
Good Points Marc but I have one disagreement. YES most of the songs we find on the internet do stink and are not ready for the Major Leagues....double A maybe. BUT Also it's my experience that Most Singers and or Bands only THINK they write Major League Songs....so it's a wash there. I can't tell you how many Bands I've seen over the years that were playing original songs THEY Wrote that was Little League and they thought they were going to be the next Beatles.....lol

SO.....I still think there ARE really potentially great singers and bands that write but NOT GOOD Enough that could benefit from finding really good songs from say YOU AND ME....lol

Just musing here and wondering. I once said who needs the a computer for my music.....also I heard someone once said. WHO NEEDS A CAR I HAVE A HORSE....lol

#1085387 - 06/11/15 09:29 PM Re: Awful [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Barry,

I am not saying they don't NEED your music. They probably do. But getting THEM to think they need your music is the trick unto itself. Do you want to know the secret to the music business?

GETTING SOMEONE ELSE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO, YET MAKE THEM THINK IT'S THEIR IDEA.

And that is the trick. If they don't know you, have no interest in you, have know knowledge of who you are, there is NO INCLINATION to investigate who YOU are.

And how much time do you think they have anyway? Any artist now has to self promote, write, look for gigs, most that pay nothing, they have to do hours and hours a day of social networking and promoting their own gigs, they have to work other jobs, even if they are artists earning all their living at music, they are working continuously at trying to keep themselves afloat.

I have talked continually about the artist I worked with, Megan Lindsey. She is the one who was on THE VOICE recently and came in second. Since the Voice was over three weeks ago, she has not been back to Nashville until this week. She has been having meetings with record companies, with publishers, trying to get her own deals. She has been doing continuous press, she has been on television and radio stations.
She has been doing promotional appearances. She is working around 15 hour days.

This week she got back and is involved with the CMA music fest. She was at the CMA awards last night and did some private parties. I am not sure if she is playing the Festival but she is all over down there doing interviews.

EVERYONE who has ever known her in this town are trying to pitch songs to her. I have every former person I have known trying to get ME to GHERM HER. The person who is the closest associated with her, Julie Moriva, her best friend, co-writer, adviser, make up person, costumer,earstwhile publiscist and manager, just left here this morning when I took her to the airport. Everyone has been coming out of the woodwork to get HER to try and pitch music to Meghan. It is unending and comes from everywhere. And these are the top people in Nashville, LA and New York.

Everyone tries to ride the proverbial gravy train and there is NOT EVEN ANY GRAVY.

This is EVERY ARTIST. Even the bands and artists you don't think would get pitched stuff, if they are out there in the public, they are getting pitched stuff.

So if you think that some people sitting back on the Internet are going to get some attention, you probably are not thinking it through.

MAB

#1085388 - 06/11/15 10:12 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Sebring, Florida USA
Good Points but I'm NOT Talking about people like her. I'm talking about young bands and singers in small towns playing clubs that have potential. Your point of convincing people they are not as good as they think is a good one....lol

Songwriting is a different skill set than singing or playing AS YOU WELL KNOW.

And that is probably the place to start. You said to find younger Bands before they are known and that's my NEW FOCUS....I'd be willing to write with them OR for them and share the credits....It will give me something to do.....I'm going to find a LOT of Bands and Singers all over the world and GO after them aggressively....Thanks for your always good comment.

#1085393 - 06/11/15 11:10 PM Re: Awful [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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maccharles Offline
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maccharles  Offline
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Two friends of mine (one resides in nashville now) were slated to play somewhere there one day, and seeing as how it was a first trip for them, they promptly got lost. They were driving around looking for this place and must have looked strange because a cop decided to pull them over.

The officer approached the car and asked if they were lost, to which they replied yes. The cop said "well, step out of the car, will walk down to the end of the block and I'll point everything out to you"

They all three walked to the corner at which time the cop dutifully did as he said he would and pointed in every direction, naming all the land marks.

After he was finished, and without missing a beat he pulled a cassette tape from his breast pocket and said.."if you're meeting someone in the music business, do me a favor and give them this"

True story, EVERYONE seems to have a song to sell.

#1085407 - 06/12/15 12:21 AM Re: Awful [Re: maccharles]  
Joined: May 2001
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Brunswick, Ga. USA
Um, Well,
I do have songs on a Web Site listed under New Web Site on the Industry Board. Since I sent out flyers offering a free Mechanical License to anyone who would record any of my songs I have basically heard nothing but occasionally the counter goes up. I am working on a Book now.

Back in the 50's you could hardly hear a bad song on the radio. Today you can hardly hears a good one. I think I have the song for all those Playing on the radio. I'VE ENJOYED AS MUCH OF THIS AS I CAN STAND. Written by Bill Anderson and Recorded by Porter Wagoner.


Ray E. Strode
#1085410 - 06/12/15 12:39 AM Re: Awful [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: May 2015
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TC Perkins Offline
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TC Perkins  Offline
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Virginia
I listened to Star Country here where I live for about an hour the other day. Out of all the songs, 2 were decent imho. One by Rucker, and one by Urban. The rest were so generic that it was kinda sad. The same is true for the rock stations, and hip hop has gotten so bad, I can't listen for more than a minute now.

But hey, most radio stations have always been guilty of this same crap for decades. It wasn't any different for most genres whether we are talking the 80s, or the 90s, or now. About the only place you might hear something fresh is some of the college stations.


If it has strings I will find a way to play it!

You can hear my tunes at https://soundcloud.com/tc-gypsy
#1085416 - 06/12/15 02:49 AM Re: Awful [Re: TC Perkins]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,074
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
You should have to endure the NEW writers and artists coming out. If you think it is bad now with every thing sounding the same, wait about three years and you will REALLY hate stuff.

Ray, it really always has been like this. you have a fondness for things in YOUR DAY, but there was plenty of crap out there then, always has been. You just remember it sentamentally. People who are younger than you are would hate music from your day. it is a normal fact of life.

On the 'Gherming' issue, (the cop trying to give out a tape) I have a better one. A friend of mine, jerry Vandiver, is a hit writer with a couple of big Tim McGraw and Phil Vasser hits. About four years ago he was hit with a terrible attack of pendicitus. He was nearly dying, in terrible pain, and was taken to the emergency room.

While he was waiting in one of the rooms, a nurse came in to take his vital signs. As Jerry was there nearly bent over,she was taking blood pressure, temperature, and information. Suddenly she looked at his chart and said "So you are songwriter huh? Well I am too! And I am really trying to get someone to listen to my songs...' She made small talk but Jerry was in so much pain he couldn't even understand her outside it was the most goofy thing he had ever experienced.

About two minutes later she leaves and about ten minutes after that, a huge black guy comes in to pick him up off the bed onto the gurney to take him to surgery. As he was laid back the guy is looking down on him wheeling him down the hall. he sees this guy;s face upside down, and the guy says "So you are a songwriter huh? Well I am too, and I really need to get someone to hear my songs, cause I've got some hits!!!!"

Being Ghermed to death. That is this town.

MAB

#1085417 - 06/12/15 03:00 AM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Hah.....I believe it.

#1085418 - 06/12/15 04:25 AM Re: Awful [Re: maccharles]  
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Ray,

Another reason you don't hear anything on that 'music liscencing site' is that that no longer even factors into the equation. In the new music market, liscening is not even considered and is another reason pretty much all artists are going to write and record their own music. No reasons to even consider paying liscencing and adding to the cost of a project. As most artists are doing this themselves it is not even a consideration.

Liscencing of any kind is pretty much gone forever outside of the major labels and publishers. What is coming will be writers actually paying money for artists to record their songs. you will be the one having to sign an agreement with the artist and pay them for doing your song.

Just another change that is on the way.

MAB

#1085419 - 06/12/15 06:16 AM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Not a controversial subject at all.

I think we need more objective music, something everybody can agree with, so we all could just get along and be comfortable all the time.

Music is all about feeling it, and honestly, don't we all feel the same :-)


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#1085422 - 06/12/15 11:39 AM Re: Awful [Re: Kolstad]  
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Aw, Humm, Well,
Marc I promise I won't Gherm anybody. I let my songs speak for me. In other better news there is a big Country Concert this weekend down in Jacksonville, Fl. My daughter and her friend are going. I think Keith Urban is one of the Artists.

Since you are a lot closer to the Action than I am, are things as dead as it seems to me at present or is it just me that is dead and won't admit it.

Paying the Artists? A few years ago I sent a Bluegrass Group some of my Bluegrass songs. Don't have many. They liked all the songs but wanted me to pitch in some money. I had to pass. Hell, I've offered a free Mechanical License now.

When I send a submission, haven't for 3 or 4 years it is totally professional. On too many occasions the response, if there was one was pretty amatuerish.

Everybody wants it served up on a Silver Platter. It costs about 7 dollars to prepare and send out a submission. Most of the people on the other end are too cheap to spend a dime on a reply.

Lessee. The heading of this post was Awful. That ain't the half of it.

As a final note Marc. Say you have a good Artist that is going to record one of your songs but still needs one or more good songs to complete the project.But finding that song or songs has been a bust. So, I or someone else may have that last song needed to make the project a success. The Web Site is for the prospective Artist to go and listen for that last song. Savvy?

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 06/12/15 01:18 PM.

Ray E. Strode
#1085428 - 06/12/15 02:21 PM Re: Awful [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Ray,

Um, I keep hearing you always talk about how "dead' things are and I am wondering what you are talking about. As I am trying to drive through the traffic of over a half million people in this town, evenly split between BONNAROO, the huge outdoor pop,rock and alternative festival, and CMA festival, with around as many people in town for that, shows booked solid, hotel rooms packed, everywhere you go you are tripping on people, new construction going on, and the town exploding, a National television show being renewed for it's fourth season, and every major magazine cover, talk show, news show, situation comedy, etc. featuring SOME kind of tie to country music, seemingly every rock star and actor coming here to live, tours selling out, and the summer season in full gear, I really don't know where the 'dead' business is.

Are some things dead? Sure. there are types of music, opportunities that play out. There are some very very wealthy at the top of the pyramid, and a HUGE gap below that. The earning power of a lot of people is nil. People are doing more and more for free, and songwriters are getting the shaft just like they always have.

Again, I was playing on a show last night with hit writers that had hits from the 60's, 70's, 80's and the 90's who talked about how when they had moved to town, the generations before HATED the changes in music and the changes to the town. They also talked about being shafted in things in their day.

So I view it as just about the same as it always has been. There are other things that are better, a LOT of things that are bad.

JUST LIKE REAL LIFE. What is the thing about our economy, our political system, corporations, political correctness, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Has it ever REALLY been any different.

You see, I look at things in a broader context. Do I like it all? God no. But I have to deal with it and try to find a way. Those are the things I bring to you. You use the tools at your disposal, and then don't get too caught up in the things you can't do anything about.

On your question about 'the last song.' That happens a lot. Sometimes projects are delayed a long time because they can't find that 'perfect last song. Artists tend to 'overcut' in the first place, usually about 20 songs to get 10-12 that work. and they are being pitched material ALL the time. So having things to choose from is never a problem. Finding something PERFECT is a problem, then getting OTHER PEOPLE on your team to agree with you, is a problem.

There have been full albums cut, packaged,ready to go,and then stopped and started over again.Recently the group Band Perry, went to California to work with well known rap and hip hop producer, Rick Rubin.Rick is a huge deal out there. They spent months on the project, finally got it done, and sat down to play it for their record label president, Scott Borchetta, who produces Taylor Swift, among many others.

Scott listened intently,didn't say a word. when the CD finished playing. He very calmly popped it out of the player, put it back in the case, and threw it in the garbage. He said they would not release it, and they had to start over.

There are so many things that have to line up in this business, you are amazed when ANYTHING actually works.

And people in this business all have their own agenda. so you have forces fighting each other even in the same companies, the same bands, the same co-writing teams. It is very complicated.

Again, you can't worry about any of that. You have to do what you do, but in my opinion, you have to TEAM up with as many people as you can. That is why I stress the co-writing and teaming up with artists early in their career. Because I don't see any other ways.

And I don't ever see a web site, an Internet only approach. Because everyone has their own friends, their own things.

Barry, let me ask you this. How many people THAT YOU DON'T KNOW, that you have NO CONNECTION WITH, and that you don';t even think their songs are better than yours, would you put PAST your songs?
You are working your tail off trying to find ways to get your songs out there. You are working on making them the best they can be. you are making sure they are written right, are recorded well, and spending the time AND MONEY nessasary to get them ready to pitch. And you are having your own problems getting anyone to listen no matter what you do.

So when other people want YOU to promote THEM over YOURSELF, how good of a chance does that stand? How much would you put your own songs out of the way for them?

That is what it is like with every artist, every producer, every musician every friend of a friend, everyone. They are in the same boat. Nobody is going to put ANYBODY over themselves. That is human nature.

I am suggesting you find people that you interact with earlier in the process, write with them, develop relationships with them. If you do that, in my experience you will find things better than not doing that. That is about as simple as I can make it.

Here's a suggestion. If you go to that show, or if your daughter goes, take note of the LOCAL people that are playing on it.All those festivals have multiple stages, and usually the local people, the new artists, the up and comers, are involved with those. they usually play in the afternoons before many people get there. But usually they sell CD's, sign autographs, have web sites, pictures, business cards. Find someone you like, buy their product, follow what they are doing. They might not record your songs but they MIGHT lead you to someone else who will be a connection for you. A lot of times, these are the brand new younger artists. Remember that you are having to look at this as a three-five year investment of time, energy, enthusasim. but you can get into some other circles and be better off than you are now.

That is what every major writer, producer,label, etc. are doing. We are all farm teams scouting new talent. You have to too.

MAB

#1085434 - 06/12/15 03:44 PM Re: Awful [Re: Chris Erhardt]  
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80's pop is good! Straight Up by Paula Abdul, Don Henley Boys of Summer, Ace of Base! That's good stuff. I could name dozens of others that are good but the 80's weren't all bad!

#1085435 - 06/12/15 04:04 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Marc....I don't think my songs are that great and never have.
I'm not really complaining about anything just thinking out loud. It is what it is and I'm OK about the Business.....just like to think outside the box a bit as it is fun for me.

I'm not bitter about never getting a cut or ME getting anywhere. OF course I have my days but I'm really OK with everything.

There are lots of ways to get from here to there. I'm not really marketing my songs anymore as there is no way to do it and Like I say My songs aren't any better than what's around.

I'm thinking more big picture and the Future Business. That's all and I have nothing to do any way.

All business go through phases. I LOVE many songs I hear on Pop and Country....I LOVED "DIRT" and TALLADEGA....and I like Cold Play and The Killers a LOT....

I like some of Miranda as she is the Real Deal....

So I think you have me wrong.....

Sometimes something ISN'T until it IS....lol

Sometimes doing something else or new or revolutionary can be FUN and Profitable. Don't know till it's tried. New Ideas are around in all fields and it's tough for them to see the light of day.....It's never easy being a Pioneer.....lol

SO that's how I feel. I'm not angry or even frustrated about ME and MY Songs but it is fun to talk and muse about things.

#1085436 - 06/12/15 04:05 PM Re: Awful [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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I couldn't get Toby Keith to hear my song that I wrote with him as the target. Another band recorded it and is gonna open for Toby next weekend. He probably won't hear it, but maybe!

I think people need to think desperately and use the internets fondness of weird stories to go viral. Sell your kidney on the internet for money to go to nashville. Maybe some country star will wanna meet with you. I dunno. Sometimes people ask a celeb out to prom and they accept. Social media should be used as a strategic tool. If you can get millions of Taylor Swift followers retweeting your song Taylor will notice. She's noticed people that way before.

#1085439 - 06/12/15 04:30 PM Re: Awful [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Barry,

I am not drawing any conclusions on you at all. I have known you here for years and have no kind of conclusions to draw other than good ones. You keep trying.

I try my best to respond to whatever is said here and try to give PERSPECTIVE. My posts are usually pretty long and I'm sorry about that, but there aren't really easy cut and dried answers to this stuff. I have the interesting point of view I do based on seeing BOTH sides of this equation. I see the artists, the things they go through, labels, producers, managers, publishers, etc. And understand much of what happens. Not everything of course, just what I am allowed to see. But most of what I talk about I get straight from the people you are talking about.

You see, Aaron, you wouldn't be able to get anything to Toby because that is not how he operates. He is VERY individual and actually QUIT a record deal because they were telling him what to record. He had to buy his own album back to be able to release it and got into a near fist fight with the label head to do what he wanted to do. The result, the songs 'wanna talk about me" and 'How do you like me Now" all came out of that. But it cost him a lot of money to be able to do that. He operates in his own world and has no interest in anything he didn't write or from his own friends. He is actually more of a business, label (Big Yellow Dog) and publisher, now producing more acts that he is doing things himself.

You are trying to locate someone who could be the NEXT Toby Keith. That is what all of this is about. Finding the NEXT BIG THING. That is what you are trying to do. Once people are signed and successful, they are gone.

With someone like Taylor, to my knowledge,she is very hesitant to listen to anyone else's songs. The reason, again, someone could say she 'stole something" so she is going to not listen. And why would the biggest artist in the business be listening to any amateur's product? She has demonstrated over and over she doesn't need anyone and does fine on their own.

But there are millions of Taylor Swift wanna be's. Pull up her latest You Tube video, look to the right, and you will see hundreds of them, all doing the SAME SONG. Find one of those you like, 'like' their version. Contact them personally. Visit their web site. There is your pitch right there.

I try to provide some context in this. I can see what you do, what you talk about, and then try to offer some options. And if you notice guys, while I may say that IN MY OPINION, your ideas might have flaws, I also explain WHY they might have flaws, what other people do both successfully and what has failed, and offer some options for you to do.

Music, like politics, (they are both very similar) is all local. Start in your OWN areas and build from there. You have much more control there and you have a shot at actually doing something.i will never stop saying it because I see it work almost every day.

Because Barry you see, all these people you talk about, Miranda, Taylor, most of the artists out there, are people I have seen BEFORE they got started. I know what they did and how they got to where they are. And it is pretty much exactly what I say in each instance.

Just trying to point out what works and why.

MAB

#1085440 - 06/12/15 04:48 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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I don't know why people try to battle you on this Mark. There's been more than a dozen of these threads in the past few months. It's like people aren't listening. What's it gotta take to make you break? LOL.

#1085442 - 06/12/15 05:32 PM Re: Awful [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Just differences of opinion Aaron. Everybody is always trying to find ways to build a better mousetrap. But at the end of the day it always pretty much comes back to the same thing. It is about a song, a writer and a vehicle. All of these are ways to get vehicles. Everyone is trying something, just a lot of things don't work.

You can either look for ways that do work or curse the fact that nothing works.

MAB

#1085443 - 06/12/15 05:33 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Actually your Internet story is a pretty good example of where to find song ideas. The biggest use I have for the net is finding human interest stories that happen nearly every day. Great place for ideas.
MAB

#1085444 - 06/12/15 05:53 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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I don't think anybody is arguing with Marc at all. Nothing wrong with passionate discussions. IF Everybody stayed away from good discussions NOBODY would ever learn anything. SO I like a good back and forth in a respectful way. I agree with almost everything Marc says about HOW it is. I just muse occasionally about HOW IT COULD BE OR WILL BE....lol that's just me being me....lol
Check out my New Song on here STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE to find out what I really feel......LOLOLOL

#1085445 - 06/12/15 06:03 PM Re: Awful [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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I'm with Tom Shea. I absolutely cannot listen to the country stations here. Doesn't matter if that's what everyone else likes....I still can't listen to it. That does not mean I don't like a lot of country artists....just that I don't have time to listen to all those frogs to find my beautiful princess. I can go on line and tell Pandora or Spotify or whomever to play what I like and they do. But not radio.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1085448 - 06/12/15 06:50 PM Re: Awful [Re: Colin Ward]  
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The business has always been a tough one. I had a songwriter friend here in San Diego back in the 70s. He was a very good one. He would attend songwriter groups in LA and ultimately sold one of his songs to a big name (Snuff Garrett) for the movie, Any Which Way But Loose. His song didn't make into the movie, and he lost all the rights to it.

Encouraged, he went off to Nashville to break in. Like so many others, he returned the way he left -- undiscovered.

Epilogue: he went on to have a successful career as tennis club manager.

#1085452 - 06/12/15 07:42 PM Re: Awful [Re: Dave Whitehead]  
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Colin and Tom,

I'll let you in on a little secret. I DON'T like a lot of what is out there either. It gets funny to be one of the "dinosaurs" here in town. Last night I played with three other writers on a writers showcase.

There was Ron Helliard- "TELL IT LIKE IT USED TO BE" T. Graham Brown, from the 80's.
Jimmy Payne- "WOMAN' Gary Puckett and the Union Gap, from the 70's.
Leigh Reynolds- with two of his Garth Brooks cuts from the 90's.
And me with a Shelby Lynne cut from the 90's, John Berry and David Ball, and Patty Loveless from the early 2000's.

WE were like the lumbering Brachiosaurs from Jurrasic Park.

But we were really on our game, the crowd was hot, even the new young kids playing in front and back of us. Aside from half of them being on their cell phones a lot of the time, it was pretty good. They were respectful and many approached us all afterward.

Then, the next round got up. Four kids that looked like the average age of 22, with a bunch of their fans in the crowd, packed all the chairs up front and went crazy.

I didn't get any of it. They were all pretty average. But that is what it is. Every once in a while you hear something that keeps your attention and still with some of the really good writers here you'll hear some things that take your breath away. And much you will never hear on the radio.

But I don't listen a lot to the modern radio either.Just when artists I am working with have something they like. Keeps me in the loop even if I don't like it.

MAB

#1085453 - 06/12/15 07:46 PM Re: Awful [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Originally Posted by AaronAuthier
80's pop is good! Straight Up by Paula Abdul, Don Henley Boys of Summer, Ace of Base! That's good stuff. I could name dozens of others that are good but the 80's weren't all bad!


laugh laugh laugh


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#1085454 - 06/12/15 07:51 PM Re: Awful [Re: Kolstad]  
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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Aside from half of them being on their cell phones a lot of the time....


Yeah, don't ya miss the days of Bogey's at the Day's Inn... Steven Farmer's nights at the Commodore... The First Take Band writer's night at Douglas Corner... smile

When men were men and writers were writers....(and the audience paid attention!)

Ah.....

#1085455 - 06/12/15 08:49 PM Re: Awful [Re: floyd jane]  
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Floyd, I miss those days too. Actually we had a "reunion" of sorts Wed. night with Debi Champion and her tenth anniversery at the Commodore. Debi started at the old Broken Spoke, which came in after the Bogey's, Boardwalk, and Courtyard Cafe. I personally started before them with the Chas Williams and the First Take Band, featuring Ray Mann, (a bass player who played drums at the same time. Also featured a guy who played two saxophones at the same time.)

A lot of people who went through those days were there the other night. I thought most of them were in jail or dead.

It is hard to explain those nights and even the ones now to anyone on the outside. but they are some pretty interesting times. But they keep keeping on. Twenty eight years here. Sometimes it feels like one hundred and twenty eight.

MAB

#1085456 - 06/12/15 08:58 PM Re: Awful [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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smile

Debi was the host at Bogey's before the Broken Spoke.

My First Take Band was led by Mike Dunbar... smile

forgot about the Courtyard...

#1085458 - 06/12/15 09:52 PM Re: Awful [Re: floyd jane]  
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Mike Dunbar took over the first take band from Chas Williams after Ray left. We are talking about 1990. I first met Debi at the Broken Spoke, never saw her at Bogeys. And there were actually three Bogeys. There also was a place called the COCKEYED CAMEL, that I played many times.

MAB

#1085459 - 06/12/15 10:38 PM Re: Awful [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Originally Posted by AaronAuthier
80's pop is good! Straight Up by Paula Abdul, Don Henley Boys of Summer, Ace of Base! That's good stuff. I could name dozens of others that are good but the 80's weren't all bad!


Every era has good songs, and I agree. But you have to admit the majority of stuff on the radio is and always has been the same as it is now - lame.

One of my biggest complaints with FM radio is that it always plays one or two songs to death from good artists and rarely plays other cuts from an album. The album format itself is in jeopardy now but I am referring to the 'old' days and that is a different discussion. For instance, how many great Eagles songs got zero airplay? They played Hotel California title track to death (it IS a good song) but ignored most of the rest of the album. The same with Seal's magnificent record (I am sick to death of Kiss From a Rose). Give me a decade and I can make the same point with multiple artists.

Radio hasn't changed much since I been around. As David Byrne said in a song "Same as it ever was" :-p

Peace,
TC


If it has strings I will find a way to play it!

You can hear my tunes at https://soundcloud.com/tc-gypsy
#1085464 - 06/12/15 11:28 PM Re: Awful [Re: TC Perkins]  
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A few years ago I mused that there are plenty of good Artists then and now, they just needed good material. It is still that way. As one that has listened to radio since the early 50's I would have to disagree that most stuff on radio has always been lame. However the statement that radio plays a set list over and over and mostly is pretty lame, today. Is true. Radio doesn't care what you want. The day of the D.J. is dead where you could call in and request a song, and get it played. Major Radio Stations only get the songs a Label is promoting. And you can like it or lump it.


Ray E. Strode
#1085469 - 06/13/15 03:38 AM Re: Awful [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Kind of surprised radio is still around. It must be in serious trouble though right?
If people are playing their own music through their ipods and stuff and paying for radio services like sirus, how is free radio still around? Is it the older generation keeping it alive? I have no clue. In 10 years will free FM radio still exist?

#1085470 - 06/13/15 04:08 AM Re: Awful [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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As far as I can tell, it still seems to be a viable vehicle for breaking an artist....I think radio needs some reform, but don't think it's in danger of becoming totally obsolete any time soon.

#1085474 - 06/13/15 12:27 PM Re: Awful [Re: maccharles]  
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,074
Nashville, Tn.
Aarron,

With all the breakthroughs in technology, mainstream terrestrial radio still introduces about 70% of the artists to the world. It is in every car, on every device made, so it is far from going any where else. It is also "free", which means that is how most people will continue to get their music.

Actually as much as the focus always seems to be on the Internet, podcasting, etc. terrestrial radio still rules and probably always will. The reason is simple. Focused control. When you have the majority of people listening to one source, that is going to be much easier than billions of other outlets, podcasts, Internet stations. Even Pandora and Spotify can't get ALL the people listening to one thing. Radio can. The Internet brings freedom which also dissapates the audience.

It is how one person can hear one song or group to death and many other people have no idea who that even is. But you have a huge terrestrial radio hit and many focused people hear it over and over again. That is what "purchasing blocks" are about.

People write these epitaphs for things far too early. The "Vinyl records are going to die." They are actually making a comeback.
"CD's are going to die." There will be uses for those for decades.
"The Big labels are going to die." Nope. They get bigger. They expand and divest themselves into other formats and are on the forefront of technology because they can afford to be. So they are going to be around too.
"There will be no more songs, when people can't make money at it." Are you kidding? There are more songs, artists, out there than ever and growing every minute of every day.

None of this stuff really dies. It just adapts to different formats, different dynamics. But the consumer drives the market. And again, when you get something for 'free", (Free radio), you are just not going to have people to start paying for it.

MAB


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