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#1084209 - 05/26/15 07:28 PM To label or not to label?  
Joined: Nov 2008
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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KimberlyinNC  Offline
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For musicians, if a lyric writer gives you a lyric that you agree to put music to and sing, is it offensive for you for them to label the parts of a song for instance and specifically a pre-chorus or a lift?

Being a lyric writer, I just use those terms if I have a lyric where in my head I hear the pre-chorus being repeated before each chorus or a lift...does that make it seem as if I am dictating to the musician what do to? I do not wanna come across in that way.

to label or not label?
Kim


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
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#1084212 - 05/26/15 08:04 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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If I understand what you’re saying Kim, I think the lyricist should label parts of the song, i.e., verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge, etc. Most the times though, the song form intended by the lyricist is obvious. The working arrangement between a lyricist and a composer should be unrestricted. There have been times when I’ve suggested changes to my lyricist and vice versa.

Best, John smile

#1084214 - 05/26/15 09:11 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Michael Zaneski Offline
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Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Hi Kimberly,

John's got it right, there.

I have some clients who label and some who don't, and I am just happy to have their business, taking offense at that was not something even on the plate. I assume they're just being as helpful as possible.

Same thing with collabs, even if it's obvious what parts are what, I know the lyricist is just being helpful.

The most important reason to label, imo..You want the singer or composer to treat your various sections like you specify-- otherwise that seems to encroach on your "intention." You want the composer or singer to understand how you hear these song parts, and if he/she wants to turn a lift into a bridge or a chorus into a verse--hopefully that mean a discussion--a dialogue between the two!

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 05/26/15 09:19 PM.

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#1084232 - 05/27/15 10:35 AM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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Hi Kim:

I think a lot depends upon the relationship you have with the lyricist. I don't bother labeling the chorus, pre-choruses or verses. I do make note of the areas where I want a musical break to happen. (Since I normally do the whole thing myself, it does not matter except when an artist, producer or publisher wants the lyrics.)

Years ago, at an NSAI conference, we were told that the person evaluating the song did not want or need these inferences. They even told us to eliminate the date the song was written in order to not "date" the lyric... as if that mattered... LOL! A good lyric will always stand the test of time, no matter when it was created. Why hide it?

All the best,

Dave

#1084236 - 05/27/15 11:01 AM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Many times I will just write where the break is and repeat is if that is how the song goes. There is nothing wrong with such notes. If you are putting music to a lyric many times some re-writes are required to make the song work.

Classical Composers in the past had to put many directions on the composition so a conductor could understand what the composer was trying to convey as there were no demo tapes to be had.


Ray E. Strode
#1084280 - 05/27/15 06:28 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Michael LeBlanc Offline
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Michael LeBlanc  Offline
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with collaborating,i think it's okay to just for the heck of it.But most musicians should figure it out unless it's some prog stuff or crazy stuff like Zappa would do,then i don't know what you'd label that at anyway.Mike

#1084282 - 05/27/15 06:44 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: Michael LeBlanc]  
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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I don't think Zappa ever collaborated with his own music, but when he was doing live shows with "Flo And Eddie" it looks like he just let them go with their routine and stood back and conducted the band. So there was somewhat of a collaboration in the show itself.

#1084285 - 05/27/15 08:30 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: ben willis]  
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Colin Ward Offline
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I have written music for a number of people over the last few years and frankly, the more information they give me about their lyrics, the more I like it. I don't know how someone could write lyrics if they didn't know which bit was going to be a repeating chorus or a verse with new information, etc. Naturally, that could change as the song developed, but initially, someone has to make those decisions and get it started. I also find it helpful when the lyricist makes a rough recording of it so I know the rhythm and the phrasing that he/she had in mind. Again, that can change, but it's easy to see a page of lyrics and have no clue how the lyricist planned the song to go. More information is better!!


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1084287 - 05/27/15 09:54 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Barry David Butler (D)  Offline
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I just want the lyric and HOPE it's in the correct form and rhyme scheme....Let me do it.

#1084463 - 05/29/15 03:10 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
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Kolstad Offline
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Kolstad  Offline
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Not at all offensive to mark the sections in your lyric. It can provide a helpful map for the melody writer.

In fact, all your words, phrases and couplets already contain a melody map as well (in the natural way they are spoken).

So, just carve it out any way you can :-)


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#1084470 - 05/29/15 03:43 PM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: Kolstad]  
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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Thanks so much everyone for your comments on this, they have been so very helpful

Kim


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
BMI Member All Rights Reserved
http://www.littleikepublishing.com
Email for Song Business Only
littleikeproductions@hotmail.com
#1100877 - 02/23/16 05:47 AM Re: To label or not to label? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Pat Hardy  Offline
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Originally Posted by KimberlyinNC
For musicians, if a lyric writer gives you a lyric that you agree to put music to and sing, is it offensive for you for them to label the parts of a song for instance and specifically a pre-chorus or a lift?

Being a lyric writer, I just use those terms if I have a lyric where in my head I hear the pre-chorus being repeated before each chorus or a lift...does that make it seem as if I am dictating to the musician what do to? I do not wanna come across in that way.

to label or not label?
Kim



When I submit lyrics to a publisher, for example, I never label the sections ( though I see a lot of lyricists that do ).
Why bother? The listener/auditioner doesn't need it, and it clutters up the page, diminishes the flow of the lyric if the listener is reading along with the song being played. It would be like painting a beautiful painting, then labeling the sections of the painting for the viewer. Wouldn't that be silly? I know that's not a perfect comparison, but the essence is the same.





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