JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Has anyone dealt with TROZ Music Publishing?

Frank Porter here. I have been offered a deal with TROZ music publishing. I am looking for anyone that has had an experience with them. Please do tell if you have.

Thanks everyone!

Hi Frank,
What type of deal have you been offered? A Publishing Contract? Not familiar with them. Give more information as what type offer they made to you.

Hi Ray,

Yes it is a publishing deal. It was late 2014 and they wanted me to sign for 20 years. That is why I did not sign. I am not that familiar with publishing deals. It was non-exclusive which seems safe on the surface but I wasn't sure if the rest of the wording was not trying to get one over on me. The music business can be scary sometimes and I will admit I just wasn't getting that warm fuzzy feeling. I still wonder about them. Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Frank Porter

Were they going to pay you to write for them as a paid employee or give you a retainer so they would have first refusal rights to your songs?

No experience with them, but I looked online and it appears that it is run by Rozelle McBarnette who is a realtor in Grenada (Caribbean) who is also a grad of Berklee, Valencia (Spain). She seems legitimate but I wonder what exactly a publishing contract with them would get you? They are pushing a number of artists that I have never heard of and they have demos posted. There is no evidence of having published any songs to anyone else. They mention that making demos is one of their services so I am suspicious that they may sign you and then tell you your demo is no good and that you have to pay for one of theirs???? She does live on a really nice beach so maybe you get to visit.

Rozelle McBarnette

Founder at TROZ Music Publishing

Valencia Area, Spain
Music

Current

TROZ Music Publishing,
RE/MAX Grenada,
TEDx BerkleeValencia

Previous

RE/MAX Grenada,
MIDEM 2014,
SEALES School of Music

Education

Berklee College of Music

I would add that when evaluating any kind of deal like this, ask yourself (and research) "where does their money come from?". A major publisher receives the publisher's share of royalties on song placements, airtime, etc. That can be a lot of money on a hit record but it isn't much on anything else. That leaves the wannabe star to provide their income, and that is not what you want......

What you will probably want to do is find out who they represent and contact THOSE WRITERS AND ARTISTS. Everyone should provide references. If they don't, avoid them.

Find out what the success rate has been.

How many pitches a month/week they are making?

Who their personal contacts with?

Are they "fee for service' song pluggers or legitimate song publishers?

What was the charting success of their most recent record.
How many artists are they developing?

Do you have access to their artists?

Will they be scheduling co-writes with their artists or do you do that on your own?

What producers are they working with?

What are their track records?

If they are in Grenada,how many trips a year do they make to Nashville, New York, LA, to interact with industry people, attend events, workshops, tradeshows?

Do they have studios in Greneda or in their areas that they do demos?

Do they cut demos or do they pitch what you provide them?

Do they reinmurse expenses for demos if you provide them?

How are their affiliations wit ASCAP, BMI or SESAC?

Those are what I would start with.

MAB

It is hard to publish your own music. It is also hard to find a publisher you can work with. I may have passed up a Chesney cut back in 2000. I still think about that.

Since publishing has all but dissapeared, unless you have a MAJOR HUGE HIT, there is nothing to 'collect from publishing", so publishers have for the most part, dissapeared outside of a few majors or some independents with major partnerships and money.

So, Song pluggers' are about the only option left for songwriters, particularly anyone who is outside the inner circles or working their way INTO the inner circles with artists of their own.

Again, not "toeing' the Nashville corproate line" just stating what it is.

MAB

Frank,

For your future reference, things starting changing in the publishing business about 15-18 years ago. Money started diminishing due to the Internet and the growing amount of "Free' music. As artists became more involved in the net, the process of "giving away" music, on web sites, YOU TUBE, REVERB NATION, NAPSTER, etc. in order to get fans to come to shows and buy merchandise, took over.

The current "music streaming" or subscription sites, Internet radio, podcasting, sattalite radio, and the new services like "Spotify" or 'Pandora'. There are those that see that as the new second coming of the music industry, and those, such as myself, that will have to see it. But there are a lot of different business models being tried a lot of people trying to figure out how to make things work in the second generation of people that have never paid for music.

A majority of former "publishers" have taken on the mantle of what I refer to as "Pinos", or (publishers in name only), where they have song plugging or pitching services, film and television libraries, (of which you pay for) or well intentioned services. More than most have some form of recording studios or other media or music services where they make money. There is nothing "illegal' about this, as much as "the road to Hell being paved with good intentions." They tend to overpromise and underdeliver.

People outside of a music center, LA, New York, Nashville, London, Paris, etc. tend to have a very distant relationship and in turn, a pretty tough row to hoe. That is why it is essential to know who you are dealing with AND WHO KNOW THEM. This is a business that doesn't matter who YOU know. It is WHO KNOWS YOU AND HOW THEY KNOW YOU.

I know half the power players in Nashville and have for many years. That doesn't mean I can walk in and start playing songs for them. If someone won't give you references or be clear with you about what and how they do what they do, it is best to keep a distance. Sometimes people might like to do a single song or just a couple and see what happens. If you ask for a "reversion" clause, you can find out their practices without being tied up too badly.

Crawl before you walk, walk before you run, buyer beware. If it seems too good, it usually is.

MAB

"Yes it is a publishing deal. It was late 2014 and they wanted me to sign for 20 years"- phillyrocker

Hi Frank! Non-exclusive/ 20 year reversal clause? I sense this is a music library. Don't think a publisher looking for artist songs would be non-exclusive. If it is a library (though many are going exclusive), then 1-2 year reversal is reasonable. Anyway, good luck!

Best, John

And if it is a legitimate publisher, they are not going to do anything past a couple of years. Usually an 18 month involvement is about all they are going to do.

MAB

People want to buy music and they do. I often just want one song from an album and not the whole album but sometimes they make you buy the whole album just to get the one song. That pisses me off. It won't make me buy the album so I'll just stream it and they'll lose out on money. Their fault, not mine.

Marc, Is it true that most professional songwriters made most of their money not from hits but from fillers? Now we don't have to pay for the filler songs that we'd skip past anyway. We can buy only the songs we like. It's consumers choice which is the way it should always be. We, the consumers are in the drivers seat now. You can blame my generation if you want but we're not the reason why songwriters are making less money. Write better songs. Find more interesting artists instead of someone with a pretty face and minimal singing talent. Make their music available to buy without strings attached. We'll buy them. The music industry is failing at this.

Aaron,

Have you ever heard everyone you know talking about how great a song or artist is and you go hear them and don't get it? It just falls flat with you. It might be a cool dance song or party song or even something that means something that you just don't get? Or have you ever heard or seen somebody that YOU JUST LOVE but no one else seems to get?

That is the problem with music. It is very subjective. I have never met an artist, writer or producer who just said "lets put some crap out there and two good songs." Somebody believes in them. But everything doesn't always work. There are more ONE HIT WONDERS than anything in the music business. Same with television shows, movies, etc. Do you think people just sit around and come up with garbage, spend a lot of money on it to put it out and fail. Destroying their reputations, their personal lives?

Is there crap out there. Absolutely. Always is and always has been. Your generation came up with ilegal downloading becauase of what you say, because they didn't like an album worth of songs. There was a time when people didn't put out more than two songs at a time. They were called 45's with one song on one side and another song on the other side. They were cheap and a lot of them sold.

Baseball players strike out more than they hit home runs. It is called a "batting average." Record companies fail on nine out of ten albums or artists they release. They don't set out to lose money, they just miss a lot. Someone believes in those albums.

An artist's money has always come from touring and merchandise. There have been songs throughout history that have done quite well, but not as many as people think, and some of the songs people think have done incredibly well, have not paid off in what people think they have. I know more than a few broke Grammy Award winners. Am writing with one in a few days.

If people knew the absolute way to "write better songs" they would do that and not do the crap. If it was not a dumbed down entitlement world, there would only be brilliant writers, artists, songs, out there. But that is not where we are. WE are in a world of amateurs. And most things are going to suck. There are billions of songs millions of artists out there, all trying to find a way to reach an audience.It is much tougher than you realize.

As far as "people want to buy music" that frankly is just not true. The majority of people have no idea where music comes from, it is something in the background, they hear it on radio, internet, they have never paid for it in their lives and have no intention of paying for it now. Legal streams and downloads have come a long way but still are not totally even, nor will we ever be.

Today's artists have to try to build their skills the best they can, try everything they can to reach and audience and most of the time have to do it while working other jobs, and the very real possiblity it will always be that way. The best, most talented don't always find their way out there.

I hope you find music you like, write music you like, stay involved in the process. I hope you pay for it when you find what you like. I hope you go see artists you like. But there is always going to be music. It may not be great music, God knows what it will be in the future. But you will probably have an unending supply to choose from.

MAB

All I'm saying is find me more Adeles, Lordes, Taylor Swifts, Kelly Clarksons, Kacey Musgraves. You know, real people that I will care about. I think we're done with having fake looking, no personality products thrown at us. Men included. There's all kinds in country. Big buff guys with nice faces but you don't know what they are really about because they are singing stock nashville - so as not to offend everyone there is a song for everybody! Yeah that's lame man.
Last full album I bought was Rise Against and Kacey Musgraves. I know where they stand because they are real. I will gladly buy their music. We just want real people.

This also goes with the tv industry and its reality tv era of awful reality shows that are cheap to make.

I read somewhere that in country music they target the soccer moms whom are driving back and forth in their mini vans so any song that may offend them won't likely be given a chance. If this is true, then that could be why country music currently is lackluster. i think if you move away from that paradigm that is currently failing you'll attract people back to country music.

Aaron,

This is what I am talking about, music is very subjective. First of all Country is actually doing quite well. Country tours are some of the biggest grossing in the entertainment business. Country has regained market share that dropped off for a while. The people you name like the "buff fake guys" are actually doing well. Country tours regularly send out three acts instead of seven or eight which is what a lot of rock tours do.

The people you mention, Lourdes, Adele, Kacey Musgraves have their detractors too. Kelly Clarkson is on the cover of every major magazine, whining that she can't get anyone to write with or sing with her. And the "Taylor haters" have their own designation and are legion. All the while she is the driving force money wise in the industry. But there are plenty of people who would dissagree tremendously with you.

Very subjective.

Music is and always has been targeted to the 'kids." They are the ones who buy in a block, because they are influenced by their peer groups. They go to shows, buy shirts, hats, beer coozies, clothes, etc. "Soccer moms' are buying things for their families and kids. "Being non-offensive" is a hallmark of country, because in your face activism, train wreck drug addled stars, publicity stunts and incidents, don't sell in country like they do rock. Kanye West, Kim Kardashian, Miley Cyrus type behavior and "Girl's gone wild' anti-society rants don't attract anyone to country like they do rock, pop, or drive by shootings like rap and hip hop. Just a different mindset.

The target audience for country music is 18 to 45 years old, 70% female. So the women do drive the market. Also, female artists sell one third less than men, so you are always going to see more "buff' men than women on the mainstream scene.

Like most people, you are going on your own likes and tastes and think the rest of the world is like that, and it really isn't. Any industry follows money and if those "lame songs" and artists you don't like were not making money, they would not be out there.

And the industry does try. The fact that you have Taylor Swift, Lourdes, and Kacey Musgroves is that they have tried different things. Most things that are "different" are harder to market, and most don't get traction among the audience they are shooting for.

But anyone who dissagrees with that, can do it themselves. You have to develop your skills, hook up with other people who can propel your vision forward, put your product out there, find financing, spend millions of development money getting the backing money, advertising out there, find your niche and audience, connect with people, and show everyone else how it's done.

In your case, there are MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of artists and BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of songs out there. Things like YOU TUBE, and PANDORA, are designed to help you find people you like. Go to YOU TUBE on one artist you like, and you will find dozens of similar artists, songs that you will like. it is all out there.

But you can't ever assume that just because "you don't like something" it isn't succeessful, making money, driving market share. They are out there because THEY ARE DOING THAT. If you don't agree with other people's choices, you can't blame them for making them. Worry about yourself, not what others do.

MAB

Rock tours are normally only 2- 3 main acts. You're thinking of the world famous festivals Marc where they are multiple days, stages and 30 acts. Those are in the summer and there's really only a couple.

The fact is country is only fairly popular in the US. The rest of the world is pop and rock. I looked at the numbers. And now that Taylor has left country music you can't even count her figures in the future.

It seemed they were going to try to get my songs licensed in movies and video games...

It sounds like they want to pitch my songs to movies, commercials and video games.

Thanks. That gives something to work on!

Good advice. I did not jump on it as they were not answering enough of my questions.

Thanks for your insight. All this info is helpful

I swear troz is what the cartoon lab mouse Pinky used to say. And he would say it backwards too zort.

OK Frank.

Pitching to movies and video games requires a radio-ready recording of the song or sometimes a short piece of filler music called a cue. Do you make those at home?

Your music nearly always needs to sound modern (a "beat") with good modern, young sounding vocals. And the competition has recently become fierce.

Good luck.

Hi Colin,

I have a group of songs recorded in a pro studio www.sonlightproductions.net

I also do some recording in my home studio. I do not follow trends. Never have and never will. I do concentrate on making quality recordings of good original music and sometimes a cover song done in my style. It is those values that continue to drive my music career. I have lately been finding young musicians are digging my originals especially the instrumentals. They are helping me get in to clubs and welcoming me in to their scene.

I feel blessed to have this sort of thing happening in 2015 at age 51. I recently co-wrote a song with a 13 year old guitarist. It's not finished yet but when it is I will be posting it.

I thank you for the good luck. I fully appreciate the role luck plays in this business. I also fully appreciate that believing in yourself and being passionate about what you are doing and especially not giving up is equally if not more important than luck. With all of those forces working together (including luck) sometimes magic happens in the music business. The main thing is I am having fun with it and that comes across to the audience and in a way infect them with the fun vibration. I am still in the game having fun and that is enough for me.

Love and Peace to All who read this!

Frank, for useful information in general regarding music libraries, you might like to have a look at this excellent website.

'Music Library Report'
http://www.musiclibraryreport

It's extremely comprehensive, and covers all manner of music publishing-related topics.

Two libraries I can recommend are http://www.HitLicense.com and http://www.MusicDealers.com.

Donna

Hi Donna,

Thank you so much for the information! I very much appreciate you taking the time to answer my post!

Frank