JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum LESS REVERB!, (Motown Johnny)

"You've Been Away Too Long"
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391

ALL NEW VOCALS (AGAIN) as if: 2015-03-26
Had this tune since 1978, when Buddy Holcombe and I first got together to write songs. Was in our first batch after a couple of months. i saw a show on the Funk Brothers, and got inspired to do up this oldie of ours in the Motown style. I of course had to fake knowing what I was doing, so there will be a lame try at honoring Smokey near the end. I buried it enough in the mix that it should still work to some degree,,,I HOPE!

Thanks to James Calore, Iggy Taylor, and Tracy (Daubert) Rossini, for their advice, and to Mike Appel, for his recent encouragement.

Hi Johnny!

I loved Motown muscic growing up In HS during the 60's. I was a Beatle nut for sure, but when it was time to dance, I wanted Motown for sure. I really liked your song, it has an inviting feel that makes you want to get up and dance, nice melody and good rhythm which is essential for Motown type music. I think you did a fine job all around! If I were your producer, I would say let's see if we can put a little more "passion" in the lead vocals--your singing them very well, but to get a great Motown town, you need to go a little more "over the top" with the passion, as your vocal style here is more pop IMO. Just some key phrases will make the difference, listen to some of the classics, you'll see what I mean--and YES you can do it, perhaps not comfort level but you can....

I really enjoyed this, don't here this vibe much anymore, nice work!

steady-eddie.

Hey Johnny,

I really enjoyed this a lot. It brought me back to the days of my youth. I have to say, however, I hear more of a Philly soul sound here as opposed to Motown. It has a bit of Spinners, Stylistics, Harold Melvin (Teddy Pendergrass) in it. More so, for me, than the Tops or Temps or Miracles.

Either way, great stuff. Just a wonderful sound. Very cool that it was written in 78, as well and recently recorded.

Congrats on a great one.

Dave

You are SO correct, Eddie! I DO need more passion and soul in my lead vocal. I know exactly what you mean, as I can recall any song that I ever heard, (my weird memory that is haunting all the time, it has me doing that even without wanting or trying to). THE THING is, when I do try to put more into my vocals that are not my usual pop style, (brit pop mostly ), it comes out so weird and fake, (funny sounding actually). I can even do a decent Elvis, but it would only be good for Saturday Night Live! I NEED a fitting singer to do this for a proper demo, for sure! Ya can;t fake Soul and real singing talent. My mother, who when she got older and more honest with things like this, always told me: "You play much better than you sing"! Ha! My passions come out in my playing, not so much in my singing, even when I try,,,,and for singing, one shouldn't have to TRY, they just have it come out, for it has to. I wish I had that talent as some others clearly do. I would NEVER go on any voice competition show!

Mike Appel just told me this morning to go ahead and send it to The Funk Brothers if they are accepting my submission permission, for he said they will already know one of their singers would be singing it, and they would mostly be interested in "the song", (melody and chord changes), and for overall appeal.

Just wishing it sounded vocally authentic, for sure!

Thank you for such a caring reply! And a spot-on one!
Johnny

Johnny, I know what you mean. I have a few songs that need another singers other than me--especially the edgier rock songs, I've always been more of a clean type singer--we are what we are tone/style-wise to a degree. When your voice isn't 100% suited to a genre or song, those shouldn't be your primary songs that you sing. (not saying you shouldn't sing this song, I was only talking polish) Neither of us will sound just like Marvin Gaye, that's not you or me, but if you go to Youtube and play one of his popular songs (many to chose from), sing along with him and try your best to emulate the passion/style or vibe, gradually turn him down and turn yourself up in the headphones. When you go through this drill take note of which words, (usually subjects & verbs) that are accentuated with a little passion, then do your version. The problem sometimes with singers is they "try too hard to sound like the performing artist" when what they really need to do more is dissect where and how the singer is attacking or reeling within a song. Try it, then when you go back to recording, you'll be surprised at how small inflections here and there give your performance more believability etc.

I like your vocals, else I probably wouldn't bother saying anything; I'm a little reluctant being too harsh with vocal criticism unless I think the singer is good enough to tweak him/herself. You just need a little nudge, you're good!

steady-eddie.

Eddie, I TOOK your very kind encouragement and advice, and did just that! And, I just tracked a whole new lead, and because of YOU telling me all you did, especially in your last reply, it DID help to have me at least maybe sound more believable, and to hopefully give a better hint of the style I was going for! So THANK YOU...Do be honest again and please review my just now reuploaded file at the same song page link"

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391


And, Dave, you also hit something on the head, (the Philly Sound), and I guess i knew it from living 7 miles from Philly for 62 years now! (In South Jersey just over the bridge a few miles). That, and with once working with the producer that produced The blue Notes and such, I guess I have "some" of that in me. I thought I was going for Motown, but yeah, I can HEAR now that I actually had a hint of the "Sounds Of Philadelphia"! And it took an outsider to tell me that! Funny! Thank you very much for also telling it how you hear and see it!

Besides the advice help I got while recording the music, the support from you and Eddie has been so valuable!

JPF Rocks!

Thank you!
Johnny

Hope this is better now:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391

Hey Johnny,

Grew up in Cherry Hill, NJ. Philly sound is near and dear to my heart. Not much of an outsider really.

BTW ... Mike Appel? Springsteen's first mgr/producer?
Dave

Johnny,

Hey Man! Much better--I this time "believed you" and actually felt like I could see you making hand gestures. A little personality just puts a little sparkle on a song. Nice tweaks!

steady-eddie.

Phew! I was not really wanting to sing that yet again, but I would of course. Yeah,,,I even was believing me this time! And I DID have hand gestures! Funny that you SAW them in the "sound of my vocal"!

I held my two mics in one hand, and let the other help with my expressions.

I just reuploaded the same thing but with 2 db less on the lead vocal,,,for it just isn't THAT good to be SO OUT THERE1 I think it sits nicely in the track now.

Thank you again!
Johnny

enjoyed it Johnny!Mike

Dave, Cherry Hill?! I'm in Barrington,,,since '53! And yes, that Mike. Recorded with him and our JPF premier musician and more in Mike Caro. Two great Mikes! Lucky Me!

In Philly, (in 78), I tracked a piano for the producer/studio owner Frank Virtue for The Blue Notes and many of those Philly groups that didn't get with Sigma Sound or TSOP on Broad Street. Tuned Stevie Wonder's Fender Rhodes at Sigma that same year too. The grand too that he didn't use that day. Again, just lucky to be in position to be called upon. I'm pushy sometimes! Others better, but none more persistent.

Cherry Hill! Did you know the Rossini's? Kids back in the day would be: Chris, Thomas and Adam. Chris is my son in law. Also knew and tuned for Fred Disipio and Herb Gordon of Cherry Hill, and many others of course. LOTS of pianos in that town! Rich Bast...rds! Hahahaha


Michael, hey thank you so much for that listen!

Johnny

You've Been Away Too Long:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391

Hey Johnny,

Nice to see and hear you!!

Really enjoyed the listen on this one....it put a smile on my face and got my toe a-tappin. Job well-done....

Thanks for sharing, and ciao for now,
Beth

Thank You Beth! Nice of you to want to see and hear me! I am glad that this put a smile of your face and got yer toe a-tappin!

See ya around,
Johnny

Not to date myself (I was still in the cradle, yeah, that's it) but I always enjoyed this style of music. This feels authentic in every way and makes for a great chair dance. Didn't they play this on American Bandstand?

Ricki

Ah, Ricki, so nice of you to say it feels authentic. Feel is the "key" to all we do, right? Twas not an easy vocal for me to maybe not get hung for, so I think the music really helps my lack of an actual authentic vocal.

Thank you! Take Good Care1
Johnny

No doubt about the Motown influence, Johnny. I heard The Four Tops right away.

Very cool production Johnny.
Wonderful performance all around.

Feel and authenticity... I believe is the key to it all.

All the best to you

Jim, (and that lady)!

Thank you!

Thank you, Nelson! I Love what I do, so don't forget LOVE as being one of the big keys!!

All New Vocals as of 2015-03-20

Thank you. Being with Mike Appel two nights ago and at my home inspired me to try to do better on this tune.

"You've Been Away Too Long"
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391

Johnny,

I think you've over-done the reverb with this last mix IMO, especially with the lead vox. (I could barely discern the initial singing at the song's onset) This lead vox needs to be more out front. Your sound sounds like your listening to a song playing in a huge club with not the best acoustics, and you are standing far away from the band. I'd take the mix and all the effects and back them out, then gradually add them, experimenting a bit as you go with the mix. Even though in the old Motown songs the drums would be similar to what you have here, I'd get the drums up much more prominent to drive this beat better, get the rhythm music & bass balanced--then bring in the vox and get it on top with some reverb, but shorten the reverb tails. JMO.

I like your song for sure!

steady-eddie.

Thanks, Eddie! I tried all that you mentioned. If you knew me in person, you would say,,,"maybe bring back Mix 53"! Ha!

I have the reverb as is on this mix for the reason of me NOT being a Motown singer, and going by some of the great R&B songs of the mid to late 60's and early 70's. Granted, they had better mics, but I am just not able put my less than good vocals on this "out there". It gets the melody and most of the wordd across. Hoew many songs do we still don;t know all the lyrics?! See? I have one of those here! Ha!!!

I do appreciate your thoughts of course though, and they are valid. Just not for my liking of my vocal, and how this type of songs should sound to me. What did Ricky Nelson sing about after being in the Garden?

Again, you are not wrong. Just rather not have me up front even more than a hair off the reverb. I like those club sounds when in the back! I grew up playing in such clubs and being in the house band, (14, 15, and 16),,with them playing all the Motown songs. It brings me back there with this mix and the over the top reverb! Maybe if I had some of Smokey;s DNA, I would cut it back a notch or three. I have non of that special R&B DNA. I faked it all with many takes, whereas for my usual style of making up songs, (Brit Pop for the most part, but hopefully somewhat original), I can sing em in one or two takes. I might even add MORE reverb if I hear this tune again! Ha! Naaah.

Thank you for your time and valid points. Others should listen to you and do just what you said if needing a clearer vocal and other demo.
Johnny

EDDIE:, I grabbed another recent mix, and I think this might satisfy both. ???

Thanks again!
Johnny

"You've Been Away Too Long"
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391

Johnny,

You know of course, you can engineer a song exactly how you want to do it, and it's great to experiment and have fun being creative, so if it's yourself you want to satisfy--"have at it!" I'm only trying to give you some "basic" production tips, and I know you know that--I'm cool with whatever.

For me yes you are capturing a big club sound, but if you heard the original Motown songs on "unscratched" records played on high fidelity systems, they wouldn't sound like you heard them in the club. Your backgrounds vox/music/lead all get "muddied" and lost within each other IMO with excess reverb and your drums need more bass power to drive the beat for the dancers. So what you are basically telling me is that you feel you need to keep the song as is to accommodate your discomfort in singing this style song vocally? Okay, I get that, but also think you may be a little too hard on yourself. I'd rather hear you sing it with a mix that I can discern the individual different arrangements even if you aren't a Motown singer, which your aren't nor am I. In that way you've done your best overall with the song, and if that doesn't fly for you, find a soul singer! Or, just keep it as you have it, as a representation of what you feel is cool too, my opinion isn't necessarily right.......

Have a good day!

steady-eddie.

John, Other than Cindy, I’ve probably listened to your vocals more than anyone else. They’re fine. Very good actually. You have sent this song to me at least four or five times and my replies have been the same. “Great song, too ,much reverb”.

To Eds’ point listening to any of the old Motown recordings and the vocals are clean and dry. It was only Phil Spector creating all that wall of sound stuff that added layers and layers along with reverb.

Right now I’m going back and forth with a bridge I wrote for somebody else. She doesn’t like it cause she can’t sing it? Hmnn? It’s a great bridge, IMO, adding dynamics and building quite nicely. What do you do? Sacrifice the song to accommodate your own imperfections’?

I hear what you say, but really you’re better than you give yourself credit for.

Eddie and Iggy;

I hear what you're saying, and will at some point soon, redo the mixing process from scratch and see how it turns out.

Thank you for caring so much!
Johnny

Sang it ALL yet Again, and this time, mixed it all with LESS REVERB!
Happy??? haha....Thank you Iggy and Eddie! At least I REALLY know this song by now!

"You've Been Away Too Long"
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391

Johnny,

"Guess what, I gotta fever! And the only prescription, is more REVERB! I gotta have more reverb baby!"

(Seriously, this is much better for my ears) Nice job, sounds like you're having some fun, and if the late 60's Rhythm * Soul makes a resurgence, you might have a decent demo here. You could always opt to hire a soul singing group should you want to go for a more authentic sound as well.

steady-eddie.

Ha! Thanks!

"You've Been Away Too Long"
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13070391

Much better. Still don’t feel comfortable going all the way nude huh? I hear you doubled the vox this time with a bit of time shift between left and right. It’s better but still has that coloring of sound.

Why did you have to sing it again? Don’t you save the raw tracks??

Great song

He's experimenting Iggy!

That was "one" of the main reasons why I left using a studio for hire, as I couldn't afford to experiment there--and experimenting is a great way to learn plus have some fun. Not saying I don't agree with you Iggy.

steady-eddie.

Thank you Stan!

Iggy: Audacity crashed and it saved all but one file. I did however had already saved the music tracks as I edited them, and I had the first version of the vocals saved, but did not "bother" to save the new vocal track, (at that time,,,ws going to do it later along with other tracks I also did some things to). Hate when that happens, for I liked that vocal track, (the one with the heavy reverb). I should have save it when finishing the editing, (BEFORE adding reverb in the mixing process)!

Yes, I overdubbed the vocal on this one, for I am just not happy with my singing on this trying style tune. I DO not have the DNA that the 70's R&B greats have! So, I add junk not to be too exposed for the hack in R&B that I am. Take me back to Brit pop!!! haha Walk Away Renee! Kinks, Beatles, Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Grows)!, ect.

I might even triple sing this last version!

Eddie, I have lot of studio experience, but like us all, we can sure use tips and all anytime! The end result of any production is what the listeners think, so DO keep giving me your thoughts, whether I use them or not right away. I DO keep all that is said to me in mind, even for way down the road. Thanks again for assisting in this tune! Same to you of course, Iggy!

Well, there Ya go!

Great song -loved it - just thought the vocals should be more upfront and the backing tracks a little more laid back. --Pete