Who's Online Now
25 registered members (Barry David Butler, couchgrouch, cloudsongs, 9ne, beechnut79, Harriet Ames, Everett Adams, JamesE, Calvin, 7 invisible), and 264 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
vlado
vlado
Buje, Croatia
Posts: 61
Joined: September 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Forty Four Years Ago
by Iggy. 05/24/17 03:08 PM
How many writers does it take to make a "HIT"?
by Barry David Butler. 05/24/17 03:00 PM
2017 Nominees Check In Here!
by cloudsongs. 05/24/17 12:45 PM
Anyone Trade Domain Names ?
by niteshift. 05/24/17 12:30 PM
Yet, Not Yet
by Neil Cotton. 05/24/17 10:14 AM
The Music Industry SKY Is Falling!!
by Ray E. Strode. 05/24/17 08:49 AM
CD baby down sizing again
by Barry David Butler. 05/24/17 08:47 AM
I pity today's DJs
by Barry David Butler. 05/24/17 08:14 AM
Life's All About The Fix
by nightengale. 05/23/17 09:36 PM
Doorway To Goodbye
by nightengale. 05/23/17 06:10 PM
I Don't Drink Cocktails Anymore
by beechnut79. 05/23/17 10:22 AM
Rock it or lose it.
by Travis david. 05/23/17 09:49 AM
Pickin’ And Singin’
by Neil Cotton. 05/23/17 08:37 AM
Welcome To Facebook
by Barry David Butler. 05/23/17 07:46 AM
Shadow Boy
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:55 AM
Honeysuckle Spring
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:50 AM
Edgar
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:45 AM
It's Yesterday Somewhere
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:38 AM
Left Too Soon
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:19 AM
Down On The Burnside
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:13 AM
After All We've Been Through (Daubert)
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:06 AM
Reflection
by Deej56. 05/23/17 12:01 AM
Go Preds Go
by John Voorpostel. 05/22/17 11:02 PM
Creativity and the Use of BIAB and Loops
by Iggy. 05/22/17 01:39 PM
Children of the Sixties (FAWM #14) Yippee!
by beechnut79. 05/22/17 12:38 PM
What's Right From Wrong. Mackie & Vic
by Mackie H.. 05/22/17 11:14 AM
Fit One More In
by Neil Cotton. 05/22/17 09:08 AM
He Found God At A Holiday Inn
by Barry David Butler. 05/22/17 07:01 AM
RIP Chris Cornell
by MidniteBob. 05/21/17 11:34 PM
Huge Georgia Boots
by nightengale. 05/21/17 11:30 PM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,068
Kevin Emmrich 10,527
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Travis david 10,079
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,684
Mike Dunbar 8,574
glynda 8,557
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,755
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,169
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,426
Joe Wrabek 6,390
ben willis 6,051
Dave Rice 5,926
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,718
Linda Sings 5,601
niteshift 5,316
KimberlyinNC 5,195
Vicarn 5,109
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,596
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,342
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
Neil Cotton 3,960
nightengale 3,947
TamsNumber4 3,916
Roy Cooper 3,880
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,744
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
beechnut79 3,170
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Harriet Ames 2,865
PopTodd 2,855
E Swartz 2,828
Nigel Quin 2,795
MidniteBob 2,588
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Nelson 2,359
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,241
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,151
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Ray Thyer 1,929
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,748
floyd jane 1,713
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,587
Cal 1,574
Jack Swain 1,554
Rick Heenan 1,552
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,450
RogerS 1,445
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,427
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
Stan Simons 1,402
in2piano 1,397
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,367
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,311
Jan Petter 1,300
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
GocartMoz 1,253
Janice & Bud 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
IdeaGuy 1,209
Glen King 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
PeteG 1,146
summeoyo 1,083
Gerry 1,077
BobbyJoe 1,075
joro 1,045
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
IronKnee 884
Petra 883
Drifter 856
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
lane1777 746
90 dB 745
tbryson 736
Andy Kemp 732
Andy K 729
Jackie444 718
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
ant 694
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
9ne 531
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
Roderic 522
Irwin 519
pathardy 511
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
Moosesong 491
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
R&M 442
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 398
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
Cecilee 376
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 351
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
pammie 279
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1076245 - 03/11/15 10:57 AM Sort of...  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,865
Caroline Offline
Top 100 Poster
Caroline  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,865
Texas
A couple years ago a 10 year old cut a song I had cowritten with 2 friends. This song is now available in iTunes. Yay! Upon reading up a bit on this young lady I found an interview where she states she "cowrote the song, it's important to live life to it's fullest!" Lol! She's 12 now, and apparently is a cowriter because she changes 5 words in the song. I'm not happy with the change (because it takes away from the tone of the song, if it made it better, I'd be ok with it) nor with the "cowrite" she gets to claim but I guess at least it's out there. I'm all for multiple cowriters but honestly, where's the common courtesy. People shouldn't just be allowed to add themselves without the actual writers permission. But like I said, it's cut, one day hopefully I'll get another check in for my 2.275 cents:)
Let me know if you'd like the info. I'd be happy to have anything that gets me closer to covering the demo cost:)

Last edited by Caroline; 03/11/15 11:27 AM.

Caroline


http://www.myspace.com/carolineholder
http://www.soundclick.com/carolinewroteit

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)
#1076253 - 03/11/15 12:20 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: Caroline]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,236
Everett Adams Online content
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,236
,NL Canada
Just another sign of the deteriorating music industry. It's going back to the age when artist used writers material without any compensation to the writer. The most important commodity in a recording is the song, it is the foundation of the industry, still the writer is the worst done by in the industry. No one should be allowed to add or take away from a song without the writers permission, especially when it does nothing to improve the song. Cosmetic changes are OK if it does not change the meaning of a song, but should not cut the artist in as a co-writer. I know there is an over supply of songwriters (good and bad) but why should writers be the scape goat for the ills of the down turn in sales?

#1076263 - 03/11/15 01:26 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,865
Caroline Offline
Top 100 Poster
Caroline  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,865
Texas
Everett, it is frustrating. I'm very thankful that it's cut, it's not going to sing itself. However, common courtesy, manners, and the like have long been stepped over in the music industry.
If it actually improved the song I wouldn't mind the change but 5 words total in the song without so much as a heads up just seems wrong. If she wants to be a cowriter that entail participation, IMHO, not add ons or changes without letting the writers in on it.
I know of one songwriter who had a cut with Lorrie Mirgan (sp?) and she lived the lyric but not the melody. The music was changed but the writer was informed before hand. Not the he was gonna to try to argue, but it was the polite thing to do.
I guess I'm just old school and think that type of thing is important. Maybe I should adjust to the way society is today. Just feeling like the values and respect I grew up with are long, long gone.


Caroline


http://www.myspace.com/carolineholder
http://www.soundclick.com/carolinewroteit

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)
#1076316 - 03/11/15 11:07 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: Caroline]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,926
Dave Rice Offline
Top 40 Poster
Dave Rice  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,926
Texas
Hi Caroline:

I would need to know more about the case before rendering one of my "famous judgments"... LOL... but right off the bat... did the young "artist" contact any of the legitimate co-writers before making changes? Was the distributor or publisher involved in listing the "artist" as a co-writer? Are any of the legitimate co-writers members of a PRO organization such as BMI, ASCAP or SESAC?

I've heard of many big name artists "forcing the songwriter(s)" to make changes to accommodate their singing style or ideas on how to make the song better... but it seems pretty darn cheeky for a youngster to make changes and then name herself as a co-writer. Depending on how the song was registered (if it was) she could now be in for a share of the "writer's cut" as well as the artist's cut.

Perhaps she (or her handlers/parents, etc.) don't fully understand how music publishing works. I agree that it is better to have the song "out there" where there is at least some potential for income... but songwriters always seem to get the short end of the stick and it really gets my goat! ("Makes me angry!"... for those of you who don't understand Ozarkian English!)

I can sure understand your ire over this little deal.

All the best,

Dave

#1076352 - 03/12/15 01:32 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: Dave Rice]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,723
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 40 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,723
Brunswick, Ga. USA
There is usually a Clause in a Publishing Contract that allows Editing of the song if needed. Many times an Artist will need a few changes for the song to fit better. Editing a song in no way, shape, or form gives a writing credit to a Publisher or Artist. So if the song ever took off and made huge amounts of money and someone claimed a writing credit that wasn't given a court case could ensue.

What you might do, or not do, is write the young lady a letter stating according to copyright law she has claimed a writing credit she is not entitled to.


Ray E. Strode
#1076416 - 03/13/15 11:23 AM Re: Sort of... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,865
Caroline Offline
Top 100 Poster
Caroline  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,865
Texas
The specifics are...

I pitched
It got picked up by this artist
I got a $32 check
Found out a few weeks ago it had been released (over a year ago) on iTunes, and further checking I found it in cd baby, reverbnation, amazon, amazon/uk, overstock, and if there's another I don't remember.

I checked out some sites and found an excerpt of an interview where she said she was a cowriter, the song was about living life to the fullest.

That's all I know.
If it's not uncommon for an artist to drop a couple words and change one and this action makes them a cowriter then I will get over myself. If it's not, if the artist doesn't have rights to writer credits then I won't. It's a penny per sale difference for each of the three who did put in the effort. I'm a few hundred shy of even covering the demo cost just on my part and I'd like to recoup at least the demo cost!


Caroline


http://www.myspace.com/carolineholder
http://www.soundclick.com/carolinewroteit

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)
#1076417 - 03/13/15 11:41 AM Re: Sort of... [Re: Caroline]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,755
Colin Ward Online content
Colin Ward  Online Content

Top 25 Poster

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,755
Saint Petersburg. FL
So I would assume she paid for a mechanical license for 1400 CDs or downloads (unless there was a publisher involved taking half the mechanicals). Unless she is really special, she will probably have a garage full of CDs for some time to come!

I agree that is a slimy tactic but it is what an awful lot of major artists do these days because it is hard to make money in the music business without royalties. Obviously she should have communicated with the actual writers. So she (or her parents) are either shrewd or ignorant or both.

On the other hand, most writers on JPF don't get any cuts at all........congratulations.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1076434 - 03/13/15 01:36 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,723
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 40 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,723
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Over the years I have developed a system in case someone wants to record one or more of my songs.
I send a Cover Letter Form that details what I will need sent for a license to be issued. I have my own Mechanical License.

If they send the information I then send a Permission Form Letter with all information listed giving them permission to record and release the song(s) by paying the Mechanical License fee.

When the Fee is sent I send the Mechanical License.
This way everything is on paper and is perfectly clear.


Ray E. Strode
#1077191 - 03/21/15 07:21 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: Caroline]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,588
MidniteBob Offline
Top 200 Poster
MidniteBob  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,588
Raleigh, ya'll
Originally Posted by Caroline
... Just feeling like the values and respect I grew up with are long, long gone.


Values-schmalues Caroline, this is a potential "legality" issue, but I'll hold off, like Dave, in judgement until more details are verified.

Coupla quick questions for your research:

1. Is she "officially" listed as a co-writer? Or is that quote just something that she blurted out during an interview? It's not uncommon for people to say something once, and then repeat it a few times and the next thing ya know, they actually believe it.

2. And yes, it's an ancient move by performers to take co-writing credit, and the actual writers have to split the royalties in order to get the song recorded, but that is usually done by well-established performers, not 10 year old snot-faced, droopy-drawers kids!!!, John Denver and "Take me Home, Country Roads" comes immediately to mind, but it's extremely common. So, you have to carefully consider the consequences of confronting her about this. I mean, what IF-IF-If-IF, in 5 years she's the next Taylor Swift???

As MAB(and others) say, it's all about relationships, and it's a delicate balancing act to figure out which bridge to burn.

But, whatever happens, CONGRATS!!!!

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#1077196 - 03/21/15 08:09 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: MidniteBob]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,336
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 25 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 25 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,336
PA
Definitely 100% wrong. If I'm reading this right, I could do a version of "Yesterday", change a couple words, and take co-writing credits for it. Maybe I'm missing something, but in order to gain co-writer status one must first acquire permission from the original writer. I think this 12 year old needs a reality check from you Caroline.

Hmm, I wonder if someone did a new version of one of my piano solos and changed a couple notes. Would they also be co-writers.

Congrats on your tune getting out there.

Best, John smile

#1077284 - 03/22/15 03:20 PM Re: Sort of... [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,236
Everett Adams Online content
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Online Content
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,236
,NL Canada
I've had several artist wanting to change a few words and I say go ahead if it is only cosmetic changes but any change that may change the meaning of a song, I would have to OK. No co-writing credits to anyone who just changes a word or two.


Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
cloudsongs, Jaketaylorsongs1961, lindero, kirpi, Kaelin Jay
20904 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics116,586
Posts1,098,500
Members20,904
Average Posts Daily35
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"Never accept no as an answer from someone not empowered to say yes in the first place." –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0