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#1043391 - 03/25/14 07:30 PM Pump Audio/ Getty Images  
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ben willis Offline
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Anyone know anymore than what the following e-mail explains? I have a couple of songs that were accepted by what was then "Pump Audio" four years ago. None have been placed yet. I haven't sent anymore songs since, for the simple reason that I don't like sending physical CD's in the mail. (just a pain in the ass). I don't mind faxing contracts as long as it's a done deal. Now they're going to start taking uploads and signing contracts online. This and any more info on this Co. appreciated. Here's the e-mail..

Pump Audio to Getty Images Music
We are excited to let you know that we are embarking on the next phase of integrating music more fully into Getty Images’ broader business. The primary aim of integration is bringing together a robust and cohesive offering that includes the range of our different content types – music, photography, video, illustration – so that each area of our business benefits from the value and strengths of the others. To this end, Getty Images has been busy building its music business and is eager to announce some new changes.

New Logo and Marketing Efforts
To increase awareness of our music offering to both existing and new customers, we’ve rebranded our music offering as Getty Images Music.

Here’s our new logo:

Watch for new marketing campaigns with our new music brand and logo.

New Getty Images Music Portal for Contributors
We have updated and significantly improved the former artist wizard and rebranded it the “Getty Images Music Portal.” You’ll be invited shortly to log into the new Music Portal to review and sign a new agreement, as detailed below. You’ll need to sign the agreement only once. Once you complete the agreement, you’ll be able to upload tracks directly to Getty Images Music through the new Music Portal submission process; it is no longer necessary to send a physical CD in the mail for submission.

A New Getty Images Music Contributor Agreement
We are also updating all Pump Audio contributor agreements to bring them more in line with our standard Getty Images contributor agreements for other types of content. Aligning agreement terms improves consistency across all contributor segments, but more importantly, this change is a significant step toward meeting new and emerging opportunities in the music licensing industry.

The Goal: innovate, create more opportunities, increase visibility in the industry and find new revenue streams. In crafting the new agreement, we sought feedback from a wide array of music contributors and included a number of valuable items they proposed. We hope you, too, will find the new agreement to be a good framework in which to work with us going forward.

The new Contributor Agreement retains the current royalty rate structure for à la carte music licensing; these rates remain as they are.

The agreement also paves the way for customers to engage with your content in manners not before contemplated, as creative, cultural and technological innovations continue to enable new licensing models. Flexibility and simplicity are the key components in developing relevant new ways to license and monetize your content.

These additional provisions will enable contributors’ content to be included in new products, services, and license models that Getty Images is developing and will continue to develop as we adapt to customer demands and future licensing opportunities. Many of these opportunities include “new media” and other businesses not traditionally familiar with music licensing.

Performance Royalty Free - Flexibility and Simplicity for Customers
Why is performance royalty free an important new license model? Music licensing is fairly complex and not all music customers or potential customers fully understand the process. Many will license music only if the process is made simpler--one size does not fit all. There are also certain customers who need a simplified and streamlined licensing process because they routinely use high volumes of tracks, usually at a lower price which will accommodate their volume. Yes, this means individual returns are small or incremental, but these users are growing in number so we expect this sector (as part of the overall market mix) to be increasingly valuable for Getty Images’ contributors. We understand that it is possible that you may not want every track to be available for performance royalty free licensing, so we have added an option that will allow you to flag a track as “not available for performance royalty free” at the time of submission. We want to make clear, however, that excluding a track from performance royalty free limits its sales potential, so keep in mind it may negatively impact the likelihood of acceptance of your track. As usual, we will weigh the value of each track against its limitations.

What’s changing in the agreement?
The new agreement supersedes all prior music agreements with Getty Images and Pump Audio. This one agreement covers all previously submitted songs and all future song submissions.

You no longer have to sign an agreement with every submission. This allows us to move to a new digital upload submission process for your music via the new Music Portal.
Only one signature is required (although that signer must have secured the rights from all other rights holders, artists, writers, composers, performers and publishers before entering into the Getty Images Music Contributor Agreement).
The new agreement includes the right for Getty Images to place your music in a wide range of license models including, but not limited to, performance royalty free or similar “direct” licenses, subscription models, pay per download, pay per listen, pay per subscriber and advertising revenue-sharing models, as well as license models that allow re-use and use in perpetuity. A direct license includes the upfront grant of all licensed rights needed and is deemed to cover all related fees or royalties – i.e., performance, mechanical, synchronization, master use, equitable remuneration, and/or other related fees. Granting these rights directly means a far simpler licensing process for customers, making it significantly easier to license your music. This also means that any performance or similar royalties (including the “writer’s share”) relating to that license will be deemed covered by the original royalty payment to you; you will not receive additional royalties for that license after the initial fee is paid.
After an initial one year term, you may terminate your agreement on a shorter notice period (90 days). Getty Images may terminate the agreement on 90 days’ notice.
The pace of change has never been faster. To accommodate future opportunities not yet anticipated, the agreement provides for the ability to introduce different or additional payment structures for new license models or to revise existing rates if needed in the form of a modifiable addendum or “rate card.” In turn, we will notify you 30 days in advance of the change, and you will be free to terminate during that time should changes in the rate card be unacceptable to you.
Payments will come twice as often. Royalty statements will be issued monthly, and payments will be made every quarter, rather than every half year.
We’ve added the right for Getty Images to issue licenses in respect of claims of unauthorized use of your accepted tracks by Getty Images customers. This allows us to provide better customer service and to collect license fees on unlicensed uses of your music by existing customers that come to our attention. Getty Images will pay royalties to you on any such licenses.

#1043399 - 03/25/14 08:55 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Hey Ben,

I just signed a new batch of tracks under their old contract last week. I haven't looked over the new contract yet, but will. I'm glad they're doing contracts and uploads online now. It will be much easier. Besides, I just used my last CD with Pump last week.

From a quick glance, it appears Getty wants to do "gratis" deals in which we'd only see PRO royalties. I'm okay with that as long as they don't go exclusive. Exclusive and gratis deals don't jive with me.

Maybe I'll get a chance to study the new contract this weekend. I'll be back to this thread if I have more to add.

John smile


#1043405 - 03/25/14 09:39 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Thanks John. The question was actually pointed to you. I'll look forward to your opinion.

#1043483 - 03/26/14 01:23 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Ray E. Strode  Online Content
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Humm,
The world seems to get more compliated as we go along. I have several songs up on a Web Site. I also have a good number of Photos I would like to market. Two years ago I made up a Catalog of 20 Art Photos and found Gift Shops on the Web I sent Catalogs too. No luck. Back in the late 70's I bought a few books on Marketing your Photos. A lot of hard work. Then photographers had to have copies made and send out. The Internet and computers were not available yet. Now you can send a file. This Getty Image with music is a new one to me. Keep on trucking!


Ray E. Strode
#1043504 - 03/26/14 05:43 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Dave Rice  Offline
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Hi Ben:

This is an interesting development. I'm glad to see that "The Maestro" JLS has "weighed in" on this thread. As always, his experience and past success mean a great deal to me when exploring the ever changing music biz.

John, I hope you will soon discover if this is an exclusive licensing deal or if it will allow the owner/writer/publisher to retain control. Making money legitimately... without too many rocks and shoals is always interesting to me.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Ben. I also appreciate your nice comments regarding the co-write I was fortunate enough to do with Lisa Gundling a few days ago. (MP3 Forum)

Regards,

Dave

#1043543 - 03/26/14 11:47 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Ariel Kalma Offline
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Amazing... soon we will have to pay Getty Images to have our music with them.... what makes me smile (snigger) most is this part:

"[review your list in case] ...Any of these tracks are unable to be licensed as performance royalty free. (Note that, depending on our licensing needs, these tracks may be removed from licensing altogether.)"

So accept this or else we may throw you out....

John, if I understand right, you would not see ANY royalty from PRO's.... that IS the gratis deal! You would only get an 'initial' licensing fee, period!!

I wonder what would happen if some company changed patent agreements, like "we will no longer pay ongoing licensing fees from any patent" ... can you imagine ?? ROLF

Keep the joy anyway... it's free and nobody can take it away from you!!


http://ariel-kalma.com


Music director
http://music-mosaic.com
World fusion compilations
#1044253 - 04/02/14 08:38 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Ariel Kalma]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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I just printed a copy of the new contract. I'm going to weed through it tonight - maybe. A quick look... I won't be submitting new tracks to Getty. When signing new tracks, all your tracks with Getty become part of the new contract (unless opting-out, which probably means rejection of new tracks).

The old Pump Audio website is gone. The address sends you directly to the Getty Image submitting portal. I can't see my previous titles with this website.

John

#1044347 - 04/03/14 05:59 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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After reading the new contract, I won't be submitting new tracks to them. Don’t want all my previous tracks to fall under the new contract.

First off; Getty can make changes to the "rate card" whenever they want. If you fail to terminate this agreement within 30 days, it will automatically be considered you're in agreement. There's also some lingo about wavering mechanical license royalties. The contract is difficult to follow. It would be great to have an Industry lawyer decipher this contract and give us a summary in Just Plain Folk’s terms. Seems to be wide open for benefitting Getty while open to diminishing benefits for writers.

On the plus side… Pump Audio/ Getty Images does seem to get regular placements. Also, the writer can bow-out after a year (1 year reversion clause). Their contract is non-exclusive, so those tracks can be signed with other non-exclusive libraries.

If I could continue with them under the old contract, I would probably submit new non-exclusive tracks.


#1044360 - 04/03/14 10:32 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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ben willis Offline
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Thanks for the expertise John. I was also unable to access my account. It sounds like they'll be sending out invitations to get into your account when they're ready to go online. I sent them about a dozen songs 4 years ago and they only accepted two, so I don't expect to be considered on their list. As you said, this is something that a legal mind should interpret. Nothing to dive into head first.

#1044585 - 04/06/14 02:09 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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Kolstad Offline
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Yeah, I got the new "Performance Royalty Free" mail. I will not do business with libraries who offers that kind of deal. NONE whatsoever!


Buzz Tracks
Making media sweeter

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/buzztracks
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#1044654 - 04/07/14 04:46 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Kolstad]  
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Here's an article that sheds some light on the subject, at least for me. Be sure to read the comments.
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2014/03/28/madashellgetty

A couple of things weren't brought up is this. Pump Audio (like other libraries) doesn't notify the composer at the time of licensing. The only way you know is when you actually get paid. That leaves the composer totally out of the negotiation process, so you could virtually be giving your music away for pennies royalty free.

What do the PRO's think of this?

#1044663 - 04/07/14 06:38 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Received an email from Getty today. Of most interest is this last paragraph:

"Your current agreement is being replaced with the new agreement. We hope that you will continue to work with us by entering into the new agreement; however, if you choose not to sign the new agreement by June 6, 2014, your current agreement will terminate on August 4, 2014."

In other words you either sign the new agreement or get the boot. I bet most will sign. They really know how to work us musicians.

Hmmm... it seems the last email I had an option not to sign the new contract or not.

John

#1044673 - 04/07/14 07:33 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Kolstad Offline
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Here's PMA's stance on the performance free business model http://pmamusic.com/how-performance-free-music-libraries-hurt-the-industry/

I'm thrilled to see their stance on this, and I support it fully.


Buzz Tracks
Making media sweeter

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/buzztracks
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#1044674 - 04/07/14 07:44 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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ben willis Offline
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I got the same thing John. I guess it's "My way or the highway". They also added another one of my song's to their "accepted" list that was previously turned down. Bait maybe?

I've decided not to play games with these people as much as I would like to hear my music in a movie or on TV.

I don't know if this relates to music libraries, and I guess that they can put anything they want to into a contract, as long as a composer signs it, but I've been reading up on the "Songwriter Equity Act" (H.R.479) on the ASCAP website.
http://www.ascap.com/playback/2014/02/action/songwriter-equity-act.aspx

Yes, you still have an option, but the option is to allow your music to be "royalty free" or not, and they almost guarantee that if you don't go the "royalty free" option, your music will not be placed and eventually dropped.


#1044677 - 04/07/14 08:06 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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I'll probably bow-out gracefully. Though when I get backed-up against the wall, I'm like a lion. laugh Financially speaking, it will only be a couple hundred a year loss. And that will be less without the PRO royalties anyway.

John

#1044712 - 04/08/14 11:15 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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If enough people don't go along with them,they will have no business,those wanting music will have to look elsewhere.They are calling this bluff hoping and knowing many will sign.I gave up on Pump Audio years ago,even though they made me some money,but I didn't like the changes they were making, all in their favour,not the artist.

#1044716 - 04/08/14 11:48 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Everett Adams]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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I agree Everett. But there are always enough musicians that don’t care and will keep them afloat. 35% licensing and no PRO royalties is a hard pill to swallow. Being a member of ASCAP, I’m not even sure about the legalities in signing this new contract.

John smile

#1044748 - 04/08/14 03:47 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I agree Everett. But there are always enough musicians that don’t care and will keep them afloat.
John smile


Sad but true. Some people will sell their souls for recognition. Even in the live music business musicians will undercut their fees and steal gigs. Some even play for free. Some give away downloads. It just devalues everyone's music.

#1044835 - 04/09/14 09:05 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Kolstad Offline
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I agree Everett. But there are always enough musicians that don’t care and will keep them afloat. 35% licensing and no PRO royalties is a hard pill to swallow. Being a member of ASCAP, I’m not even sure about the legalities in signing this new contract.

John smile


Yeah, signing this is not legal if I have registered the track with my PRO (KODA). This business model only seems viable for music that is not registered with a PRO, and even then I'm not sure I'm allowed to do it.

But then again, there's also very little incentive to do so. And if your other publishers find out, I suspect it may even compromize your relationships with them.


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#1044837 - 04/09/14 10:20 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Kolstad]  
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Legal or not, it's definitely not ethical. I remember ASCAP had articles about Pump Audio when they first started their library. It was a positive article referring to them as a new production model. I wonder what they'd think of Pump Audio now. Think I'll send ASCAP a line...

John

#1044838 - 04/09/14 10:27 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Kolstad]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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It comes down to those at the top of the food chain treating those below them with disrespect,knowing someone will sell out and provide them with what they need,even if it is an inferior product.It is happening in all aspects of life,music being one of the worst offenders.They want all the profit or most of it and will squeeze their suppliers and leave them with little or nothing.I see the same thing happening in the food industry,farmers who grow the food getting the same price or less year after year while those that sell it to the consumer keep increasing the price and fatting their bottom line. When too much power falls into too few hands, that is what will happen every time. Those with the money will squeeze out the little guy and force them out of competition,and when that happens,watch out then,thay'll jack up prices to quickly recover any previous losses.

#1044867 - 04/09/14 01:05 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Everett Adams]  
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Tell 'em "NO!" (Not only "no"... how about "Hell No!"

Thanks for sharing, Ben, John, and everyone else who responded. It is an amazing world of hubris these days. May they sink rapidly... and with no life boats.

#1044886 - 04/09/14 02:59 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Dave Rice]  
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I checked my current ASCAP statement to assess the loss of royalties from Pump/Getty. Three shows: Breaking Amish, Jackie Robinson All Stars, and several History Detective episodes. Grand total of royalties from them - $65. I think I can sustain that loss. Just had to check. I wouldn’t want Sandra to go without her pedicure. laugh

John smile

#1045282 - 04/13/14 10:31 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I checked my current ASCAP statement to assess the loss of royalties from Pump/Getty. Three shows: Breaking Amish, Jackie Robinson All Stars, and several History Detective episodes. Grand total of royalties from them - $65. I think I can sustain that loss. Just had to check. I wouldn’t want Sandra to go without her pedicure. laugh

John smile


Sometimes a loss is a wise investment.
How much would you have made under the new terms? And how would that type of contract affect your earnings in 5 years? And if it spread to other libraries?

When we don't have answers, we need to rely on our imagination. Hey, composers do that anyway :-)


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#1045469 - 04/15/14 10:05 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Kolstad]  
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Thanks everybody. I think we have a consensus.

Getty Images should be relegated to the "run away" list.

#1047345 - 05/09/14 06:20 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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For what it's worth...

I've been corresponding via email with Getty. Found out that any tracks prior to this new contract that have been registered with your PRO will remain in their library and continue to collect royalties. The new contract is for any new submissions. Also, they assured me where applicable; meaning their clients that have been turning in cue sheets, will continue to do this. And Pump Audio will continue to pursue cue sheets. Seems their "royalty free" enterprises are only for new clients that wouldn't consider a PRO license in the first place. I'm thinking Scripps Networks, Internet videos, etc.

John smile

#1047349 - 05/09/14 06:45 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Thanks John. I got a "final notice" last week to either sign the new contract weather "royalty free" "or not" by June. I have three songs with them that have never been placed. All of my songs are registered with a PRO. The way I read it, the old contract will be invalid and if you go the "or not" route in the new contract, they will likely drop your songs.
Since I don't have anything placed at this time I can't see me signing the new contract.

#1047359 - 05/09/14 11:06 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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It appears that the only thing that will change by not signing is not being able to submit new tracks. At least that's how I understand it. I'll have to re-read all the emails...

John

#1048642 - 05/25/14 02:20 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Anyone sign the new contract? Through my email correspondence with Getty, I'm still undecided. Maybe an enticement, but just got a new placement from Getty.

John smile

#1048665 - 05/25/14 08:09 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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John you're confusing me smile . I'm depending on your experience. I know you didn't ask for it, but please read my last post and tell me what you would do in my case. I'm still trying to break into the library business.

#1048669 - 05/25/14 08:40 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: ben willis]  
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Sorry Ben. I don't have a crystal ball. I'm not submitting new tracks for a while (maybe never). I'll only give them non-exclusive tracks. It depends on whether Getty will turn this into an all royalty-free library or as they responded in the emails - keep encouraging clients to turn in cue sheets (where applicable). They told me Pump Audio will continue to advise clients to turn in cue sheets. It’s a tough call Ben. I really don’t have anything to lose except my self-respect. LOL Anyway, I’m still undecided. However, if I don’t sign the new contract, Pump Audio will continue licensing the tracks they already have of mine.

Also consider they have a one year reversion clause.

John smile

#1053679 - 07/20/14 06:04 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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The entire industry has us over a barrel royalty wise. Whether it's pump audio, pandora, spotify, I-heart radio, or Touch Tunes juke boxes. {I'm on ALL of them}the royalty rate is INSULTINGLY low. Seems the deck is stacked against the artist in this business on ALL fronts. I grudgingly signed the new deal, because little money is better than none at all. I've been eating the sh** sandwhich in this biz so long it's starting to TASTE good!


bc
#1053690 - 07/20/14 07:30 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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I ended up signing as well. Though only for non-exclusive tracks I have in other libraries. Why…?

After corresponding with Getty through several emails, I was informed this wouldn't affect my royalties that I’ve been getting from Pump Audio over the years. Pump Audio will still pursue royalties where applicable as usual. The “no royalty” part is for new market clients - that probably wouldn’t have turn in cue sheets anyway (I’m thinking mainly Internet use). BTW, it’s estimated by TuneSat (digital fingerprinting company) that 80% of cue sheets aren’t turned in. There’s the real problem. No cue sheets mean no royalties. So even those “good” contracts we’ve signed in the past are only as good as the client’s integrity.

John smile

#1053870 - 07/22/14 07:52 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Tnx John, what you write corresponds with what I've heard from other sources as well. Good to know. I don't sign deals like that, but that's a business choice, not an advice of any kind.


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#1055752 - 08/09/14 05:07 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Kolstad]  
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Got my quarterly check from Getty Images in the mail today for $142, so all bets are off.


bc
#1055755 - 08/09/14 06:16 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Originally Posted by Bob Cushing
Got my quarterly check from Getty Images in the mail today for $142, so all bets are off.


Ha, I beat you big guy - $144.50. About the same amount showed up in the July ASCAP royalties for Pump. I'm sure there's probably another $50 in International royalties. Won't know till Monday.

John smile

#1056115 - 08/14/14 11:14 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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I need to catch up this post, I bookmarked pump radio but I've not sent songs there, I like the fact that it's not exclusive, I don't like the fact that I think (I'm pretty sure) you have to compromise with them for one year, and as most itnernet providers youtube, goggle, digital distrubutors now tag your songs with the id (for third parties) to claim your music blah blah, it makes it a pain if you make license agreements with other parties, so I recommend to try with songs you haven't sent in itunes.
I am actively looking for film music placement and I was thinking about taxi, but it's something I've never been able to afford frown


Priscilla Hernandez singer-songwriter
http://www.yidneth.com
New album at:
http://theunderliving.com
#1056116 - 08/14/14 11:14 AM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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I need to catch up this post, I bookmarked pump radio but I've not sent songs there, I like the fact that it's not exclusive, I don't like the fact that I think (I'm pretty sure) you have to compromise with them for one year, and as most itnernet providers youtube, goggle, digital distrubutors now tag your songs with the id (for third parties) to claim your music blah blah, it makes it a pain if you make license agreements with other parties, so I recommend to try with songs you haven't sent in itunes.
I am actively looking for film music placement and I was thinking about taxi, but it's something I've never been able to afford frown


Priscilla Hernandez singer-songwriter
http://www.yidneth.com
New album at:
http://theunderliving.com
#1056138 - 08/14/14 01:09 PM Re: Pump Audio/ Getty Images [Re: pRISCILLA]  
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Hi Priscilla! Yes, Pump Audio/ Getty Images are non-exclusive. But remember, when you sign a non-exclusive contract for a song, it kind of kills the opportunity of getting that song to an established artist (forever, regardless of the 1 year reversion). Though it's still better than having music gathering dust at home. The tracks I have with Pump I also have with several other music libraries.

Though 90% of my placements/ income are from exclusive music libraries. If you're interested in getting your music in film, I'd spread your music around to several libraries (50-50 non-exclusive/ exclusive).

TAXI is definitely a good option. My first placement came through them.

Good luck, John smile

P.S. I've found Internet radio not to be a good source of revenue.


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