Who's Online Now
20 registered members (Ilmer_uzumaki, Harriet Ames, couchgrouch, Barry David Butler, Jody Whitesides, Gavin Sinclair, Dennis Wright, 9ne, 4 invisible), and 204 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Posts: 8,455
Joined: January 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
Did she talk about me? Travis and Vic
by Travis david. 11/25/17 02:04 AM
Anyone fancy helping me and also JPF
by Roy Cooper. 11/25/17 01:59 AM
Coming back from the above
by couchgrouch. 11/24/17 10:58 PM
Sometimes Not
by Ricki E. Bellos. 11/24/17 09:14 PM
Suite: Monster
by Ricki E. Bellos. 11/24/17 09:10 PM
New Website...
by Jody Whitesides. 11/24/17 09:00 PM
'' I will never leave you''
by Dennis Wright. 11/24/17 08:09 PM
Broken
by Dave Rice. 11/24/17 02:50 PM
Another one gone
by Dave Rice. 11/24/17 02:45 PM
No Turning Back
by beechnut79. 11/24/17 11:42 AM
We Need Real Farmers (Revised)
by beechnut79. 11/24/17 11:41 AM
I Was the Donut Lady
by beechnut79. 11/24/17 11:30 AM
When Blue Turns To Gray
by beechnut79. 11/24/17 11:24 AM
I Want More
by swestern. 11/24/17 11:09 AM
Oprah Called & Said She Loved My Song
by Barry David Butler. 11/24/17 11:08 AM
Living In Another Man's Clothes
by Neil Cotton. 11/24/17 11:06 AM
This is for Love
by Michael Zaneski. 11/23/17 02:25 PM
Living a Song (That Someone Else Wrote)
by couchgrouch. 11/23/17 01:36 PM
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
by Barry David Butler. 11/23/17 10:56 AM
Shop Black Friday Men/Women Nike Shoes Online Sale
by Ricki E. Bellos. 11/23/17 09:41 AM
chaussures nike free outlet
by Neil Cotton. 11/23/17 08:59 AM
Webshop Für Sportschuhe Converse
by jameswing122. 11/23/17 02:20 AM
Father and Son
by Deej56. 11/23/17 12:04 AM
COWBOYS FAREWELL
by Deej56. 11/22/17 11:58 PM
Hard Promise
by Deej56. 11/22/17 11:53 PM
Love Goes
by Deej56. 11/22/17 11:46 PM
Dark Horse
by Deej56. 11/22/17 11:34 PM
I Remember Autumn
by Martin Lide. 11/22/17 08:32 PM
We Need Real Farmers
by Neil Cotton. 11/22/17 03:44 PM
Christmas Truck_It's Never Too Early
by David Snyder. 11/22/17 10:06 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,191
Kevin Emmrich 10,531
Jean Bullock 10,330
Travis david 10,312
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,571
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,746
Mike Dunbar 8,574
glynda 8,560
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,823
Corey 7,357
couchgrouch 7,216
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,428
Joe Wrabek 6,400
Dave Rice 6,198
ben willis 6,070
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,718
Linda Sings 5,601
niteshift 5,323
Vicarn 5,241
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,605
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,344
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Cindy Miller 4,178
Tom Shea 4,173
Neil Cotton 4,139
nightengale 3,964
TamsNumber4 3,962
Roy Cooper 3,903
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,760
Dan Sullivan 3,710
MFB III 3,687
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
beechnut79 3,265
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
E Swartz 2,929
PopTodd 2,874
Harriet Ames 2,868
Nigel Quin 2,802
MidniteBob 2,687
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Nelson 2,404
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,241
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
Wendy D 2,151
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
Ray Thyer 1,929
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
maccharles 1,770
floyd jane 1,713
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Noel Downs 1,620
Iggy 1,593
Cal 1,574
Rick Heenan 1,561
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
Tom Franz 1,451
RogerS 1,445
Ralph Blight 1,440
Chuck Crowe 1,435
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,427
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,406
Stan Simons 1,402
in2piano 1,399
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,300
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
GocartMoz 1,261
Janice & Bud 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
PeteG 1,214
IdeaGuy 1,209
Glen King 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
summeoyo 1,083
Gerry 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
joro 1,045
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
lane1777 931
Jak Kelly 912
IronKnee 894
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
90 dB 745
tbryson 737
Andy K 733
Andy Kemp 732
Jackie444 720
ant 710
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
Mel 614
9ne 607
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
Pat Hardy 580
qbaum 570
nitepiano 565
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
Irwin 526
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
Moosesong 508
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
R&M 444
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 398
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
Cecilee 376
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Alek 352
Z - man 350
John K 348
JamesDF5 347
Jaden 344
ddreuter 341
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Deej56 311
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
pomeranj 289
Char 286
ktunes 285
mastrose 280
pammie 279
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#1024795 - 09/28/13 03:12 AM Disc-makers not for me  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Iggy Offline
Top 200 Poster
Iggy  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Manheim, PA
Back in July, Tom Shea posted how happy he was with Disc-Makers. At that time I was busy finishing up my graphics for my next CD. After reading everyone’s comments I was sold and sure Disc makers was for me.

Well folks, not this time. All I wanted was a digi-pak. I had all the graphics done but didn’t feel comfortable using their PDF templates. I called them for help and was told to use their templates or there was nothing they could do. What?? I can’t send you my graphics and for a small price you put it on your templates? NOPE. I thought I just got a bad customer service rep so I used their “Chat on Line” service and was told the same thing. He did tell me, however, they had a graphic service that I could use for an additional $500, if not then I was S.O.L. Still not taking no for an answer I e-mailed customer service and was told the same thing. OK, don't let the door hit ya!

There are so many CD replication/duplication places that are more than willing to help. One phone call and I was set. I guess Disc-makers has gotten a little too big for us little guys.



#1024796 - 09/28/13 03:27 AM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Iggy]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,903
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,903
I think Iggy that so many disc fulfillment companies now are automated or at least semi-automated that humans don't get to even see the artwork. Its a case of what you send is what you get, and the onus is on you to get it right.

No comebacks then lol

Reminds me, 30 years ago I went to a printer and asked for some letterheads. I gave him the artwork, name address, phone number ect.

On the artwork I had scribbled a new phone number with a big arrow up to the existing one and written in big letters, please use this new number. I had also crossed a line through the old (defunct) number.

Well they printed exactly what was on the paper.
Crossed out number and big arrow and my note as well.

I went ape, but they said, what you send is what we print.

I guess automatic printers do that as well now.

Good luck with your new company

God Bless Roy and Helen


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#1024803 - 09/28/13 09:47 AM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,823
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline

Top 25 Poster

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,823
Saint Petersburg. FL
Interesting Iggy. And a funny story, Roy.

I used Discmakers for the first time on my new CD cappuccino. I had been using Kunaki which is totally automated. Discmakers offered the wallet I wanted but Kunaki did not. I also thought Discmakers would be more "manual" but I ended up using the automated pdf upload. It worked fine for a wallet which is just front and back, but it looked awful complicated for a package with more pages. I also was befuddled by the color format they requested. None of my graphic software would make it. So I went with the RGB that I had and it worked pretty well although the cover is slightly darker than I intended.

Anyway, I decided that all the manufacturers I looked into were about the same. And having them do anything related to design was expensive.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1024804 - 09/28/13 10:08 AM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,173
Tom Shea Offline
Top 100 Poster
Tom Shea  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,173
Nebraska
I love Discmakers and consider them to be one the most outstanding companies I have ever dealt with. I have used them for three cd projects ---- jewel cases and replication. Outstanding in every way. Each project was better than the one before.

In order to keep there costs down they have to have automated systems --- It is simply a reality. For Justice's latest cd, I used their on-line graphic process and it was great.

Tom


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#1024805 - 09/28/13 10:10 AM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,307
Everett Adams Offline
Top 40 Poster
Everett Adams  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,307
,NL Canada
I know of someone that ran into the same problem with Disc Makers, I believe he gave up and went else where to get his CD done.

#1024809 - 09/28/13 11:13 AM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Everett Adams]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Iggy Offline
Top 200 Poster
Iggy  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Manheim, PA
Funny story Roy. I understand the automation process and used it quite successfully with my last two CD’s. Using Kunaki, I simply uploaded the files, approved the result and voila a nicely produced, professional looking CD. This time, however, I wanted a 6 panel digi-pak. I didn’t have any of the programs to run the formats Discmaker’s templates used. Customer Service’s (that’s an oxymoron) solution was to tell me to buy the program, learn it and then follow their guidelines. They gave me a link to a YouTube video. Not very sympathetic towards the needs of their customers.

Colin, yes they’re all the same with one exception. Customer service. I called several other companies and was told “sure send the graphics, we can do that”. “What else can we do for you?”

Tom, I know you love Disc-makers and I didn’t want to take away from Justice’s CD exposure by responding with my recent experience. I am sure if I wanted to put out another jewel case, I could have followed the on line guides, but for some reason the Digi-paks are another animal. Glad you’re happy.

Everett, Yeap, I’m sure there are other unhappy campers. It’s a shame, cause up until now, I always held Disc-makers as being the Cadillac of CD makers, but sometimes when you get successful you forget what got you there.

#1024823 - 09/28/13 12:52 PM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Iggy]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 370
Dak Lander Offline
Top 500 Poster
Dak Lander  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 370
LoCal
Iggy, you can import the PDF templates into GIMP and do what ever you need to do there. It'll save it as a XCF file but once you've finished the project you would then export to PDF or image formats such as PNG, JPG, GIF & etc.
GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program.
It's free and takes the place of Photoshop & other image editing software for such jobs as photo retouching, image composition and image authoring.
There's a version for Windows, Mac and LINUX.

One of the included template sets is a CDR template, for Scalable Vector Graphics, a process Disk Makers don't want you to use. ????? Why then include it? Anyway, Inkscape, another free piece of excellent software, will handle that format.


Get My Gear Here!

"That ol' dog's so mean, he ain't done nothin' but eat nails and [naughty word removed] nickels ever since he was born"
#1024827 - 09/28/13 01:50 PM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Dak Lander]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,400
Joe Wrabek Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joe Wrabek  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,400
Garibaldi, OR USA
I checked out DiscMakers, Kunaki and a few others when I was doing the Deathgrass CD. I couldn't use 'em. I used to be in the graphic-design business; I create my own stuff, using software that doesn't exist any more, and I want it printed exactly the way I designed it. I can convert what I do to *.pdf so other people can read and process it. No problem there.

Those guys couldn't do it. They either insisted on my using their own limited, kludgy software, on designing it themselves without letting me proof it (or charging extra if I did), or couldn't get mine right.

I ended up going with a little outfit in Orange County (CA) called Disk Faktory, which I'd used on my first CD (because they'll do short runs at a decent price). They were a little more expensive than the other guys, but they could use my design and make it come out exactly the way I'd done it. I plan to use them next time, too, for the same reason.

Joe

#1024831 - 09/28/13 02:39 PM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Joe Wrabek]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,884
Jody Whitesides Online content
Jody Whitesides  Online Content

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,884
Park City, UT, USA
You can always try Groove House. www.groovehouse.com They're super awesome on customer support.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1024841 - 09/28/13 07:20 PM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 508
Dan Tindall Offline
Top 500 Poster
Dan Tindall  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 508
Ireland
The whole 'print ready artwork' thing is a bit off-putting at first - the new Lo-Fi EP was the first time I have had to deal with all that automated stuff, but after being offered the opportunity to pay a graphic artist 25 quid an hour I elected to find a simpler and cheaper method - you can import the pdf in Word and edit it there, then re-export as a pdf.

I used http://www.xpresscds.co.uk/ and they were helpful, quick and cheap. Cds were top when they arrived.

Dan smile

#1024875 - 09/29/13 10:28 AM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Iggy]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,173
Tom Shea Offline
Top 100 Poster
Tom Shea  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,173
Nebraska
Iggy I completely understand why you would have gone elsewhere - no one place is for everyone. Competition makes different companies work differently ----- I hope your project is a success.

Tom


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#1024880 - 09/29/13 11:13 AM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,230
Ian Ferrin Offline
Top 200 Poster
Ian Ferrin  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,230
Close to WalMart
Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
You can always try Groove House. www.groovehouse.com They're super awesome on customer support.

2nd that opinion.


Soundclick http://www.soundclick.com/ianferrin
Soundclick2 http://www.soundclick.com/ianferrininstrumentals

'Hammers don't build houses. People build houses' - Me

What happened before the big bang? What's the universe expanding into? Did you know the speed of gravity is the speed of light?
#1024901 - 09/29/13 10:03 PM Re: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Ian Ferrin]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Iggy Offline
Top 200 Poster
Iggy  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Manheim, PA
Thanks everyone. As you can see there are many other companies willing to do what it takes in order to make a sale and win over a customer. I gave Disc-Makers three opportunities. Nothing else to say, really.

#1025998 - 10/12/13 10:52 PM Re:UPDATE: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Iggy]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Iggy Offline
Top 200 Poster
Iggy  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,593
Manheim, PA
Received a very nice e-mail from David Olinsky, EVP at Disc Makers. He stated he has made changes and re-trained his team to better address issues like the one I had.

As I had stated, everything I’ve ever seen from Disc Makers has been top notch so I hope my ruffling of the feathers will help somebody else down the road. For me, it’s too late as I’ve found somebody else.

#1026378 - 10/17/13 11:15 AM Re:UPDATE: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Iggy]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,198
Dave Rice Offline
Top 40 Poster
Dave Rice  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,198
Texas
Hi Iggy:

Sorry you had that experience. It's strange how a company that should understand how difficult it is to make a buck in the music biz would develop such an unsupportive attitude. Best of luck with your new release.

Dave

#1038769 - 02/07/14 06:18 PM Re:UPDATE: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Dave Rice]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,704
Kurt Fortmeyer Offline
Top 100 Poster
Kurt Fortmeyer  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,704
Tennessee
I decided to go with Kunaki this time. (Last time it was Discmakers.) I was trying to get my project done in time for a show I had coming up. Before I got the sample review disc, time got tight, so I went out on a limb and ended up paying 2nd Day Air rates for 20 discs without a chance to see and listen to the review disc. Fortunately, it was all good, except that I needed to change the times on some of the songs (in my rush to send it off, I neglected to get the correct times after mastering, and instead sent the mock-up I had done with approximate times.) Sold the first batch out at the show that weekend. Meanwhile, I deleted that account and uploaded again with the corrections. Ordered 5 sample discs which arrived and were fine. Ordered 100 more, but they were not going to be here in time for my Bluebird show this weekend, so I also ordered 25 and again paid 2nd Day Air. They arrived night before last. Yesterday I realized that four of the jewel cases were broken. I sent an email to the company I bought them from. Then I started taking the cellophane off of a few (radio folks prefer to receive them that way) and I noticed that the cases were broken on the inside, too. The little teeth that hold the CD in place were mostly all broken off. Bits of plastic were just rattling around inside the cases. 14 out of 25 were defective and unsalable. I searched the web until I found a phone number (it's not on their website) and called them up. I told them I needed to have the discs by Sunday. They said it was impossible since today is Friday and UPS doesn't work on Sunday. They offered me my money back. I reminded them that it was only Thursday, that I had another larger order from them already in transit, and that the reason why I paid high shipping rates for this 25 is because I need them by Sunday. They said they would see what they could do and that I should send an email with the order number. I told them I had already sent three emails, but had gotten no response.
The 14 replacement discs arrived this afternoon (that was quick) but 4 of those are also damaged. I sent them another email. I'm hoping that the 100 (and the order they shipped straight to CD Baby for me) are good. If not, I guess I'll be asking for my money back.


I love words. They say so much.

http://kurtfortmeyer.com
#1038828 - 02/08/14 01:50 AM Re:UPDATE: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Kurt Fortmeyer]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,561
Rick Heenan Offline
Rick Heenan  Offline

Top 200 Poster

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,561
Lockport NY, usa
I've used Discmakers and Oasis in the past. Customer service was non- existent at both. The D project came out better than expected. The O project made me feel uncomfortable. Their CS talked down to me, tried to include costly services I didn't need, after the fact. I have a real problem with business's taking my money and acting snotty about it. I usually don't do business with them again. I'm using local companies from now on. Just have to plan ahead a little.

#1038836 - 02/08/14 03:46 AM Re:UPDATE: Disc-makers not for me [Re: Rick Heenan]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,248
Indianapolis, IN USA
Well, we're not associated with either. I used to be able to get involved in problems, but truth is when we were working together there simply weren't issues like this. I think the same issues that swept our relationship of over a dozen years away are showing up in your experiences. It makes me sad, but it is out of my control.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney



Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
jameswing122, asaltakavar, chilipily, mason_mcmahon, Lingbeek
20970 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics117,194
Posts1,103,255
Members20,971
Average Posts Daily36
Most Online1,506
Mar 16th, 2017
Just Plain Quotes
"That's just my opinion, I could be right" -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
broncolouie (64), darrell flowers (37)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0