JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Musician Message Forum Anybody got demos with EZ Piano?

The website demos are deceiving, from what I understand the songs they showcase are PLAYED piano parts, just using the sound module for the sounds. but if you play well, you dont need it anyway

I want to hear how the sampled stuff sounds imbedded in a real song. I tried out the demo version and it seemed awfully limiting.

Anybody got recordings?

Please use REAL Piano Payers, Everybody@@@@!!!

Plenty of them here and elsewhere.

Me, The Real Thang! (just for one example).

Yeah, ideally that's the idea.

But then you think, well ok, i got real piano, lets go real drums,
lets go real bass, lets go real horns.

Then you look at your bill, and you say damn, I got one song done and Ive paid too much.

If you write alot of songs, you need some way to economize.

But I agree, cant beat real musicians

Hi again Bugsey,

If you spend less and get less FEEL, what do you have for the little money? Hmmm? How much do you want to pay for less feel?


Where's it going to float listener's boats if not pro like playing with that software? Won't it also be generic? Will it be Creative? Can it offer up some suggestions? A hook that is ONLY for that one song being worked on?

What is that worth now? A buck? Keep it and find a nice good player of guitar or piano and work out things for each song. Ya know, the creative process!

It all depends on something like Oats. If you want good quality oats, well that will cost a quality amount. If however you want the oats after they passed through a horse, then yes, that will come a lot cheaper!

Pick your "end result" carefully! Enjoy People at the same time too! No software is going to get pizza for ya, or vice versa!

Johnny

lol, i know man. I have gone over these thoughts for years.

It;s like you need both. You need both a way to get good demos, and then you need great demos if you plan on making a cd.

When I make my cd, I will use real players

Hi Bugsey and Johnny:

John, I respect your thought about using real musicians and/or instruments. Unfortunately, I am a songwriter without a massive budget to allow me to hire guitar players or painists, etc. to do my songs. I don't pay for demos but wish I could but being somewhat prolific, I'd never be able to afford having my songs recorded or demoed. Maybe later when my rate of success is ringing the register more often.

My "workaround" is a high-end Yamaha Arranger Keyboard which has the capability to emulate instruments (a very wide range) orchestras and choirs. The term arranger allows me to actually arrange my songs using the instruments selected and setup for appropriate differing volumes to suit the tune. All I have to do is basically play chords with my left hand and the arranger follows my lead flawlessly unless I make a mistake or "clinker."

Each song can be as "simple" or "sublime" as the genre or style of music demands to meet your objective. Always remember that most producers or publishers are going to re-arrange your song the way they want their artist to perform it. I am only attempting to show them how one "rank amateur" has done the song.

Bugs, I don't mean to imply that low cost Yamaha, Korg, Roland or other Arranger keyboards won't do most of what you need. I switched from an old PSR-2000 Yamaha Arranger to a much newer PSR-S910 Arranger and I believe it was worth every dime I spent. The sounds and available choirs and orchestras are significantly better on this newer machine. Rough budget: Below $1,500 for the PSR-S910 but used units are now becoming available at discounts.

You can spend anywhere from $99.00 + Tax/Shipping for a beginners arranger... up to more than $5,000 for a Tyros or other brand super arranger. My best friend's Tyros Arranger can run rings around either of my two music machines.

It will take a little investment in your time to learn this "computer in a keyboard setup" but the benefits are wonderful. These are the type machines that many of my cafe and club entertainer friends use to make a living as "one man bands." The result depends upon the skill and training of the user.

Give a listen to a few of my songs on the link posted below my name to get an idea of how several genres sound on these machines. I am a songwriter who attempts to sing while using an arranger. My catalog is inching upward past 900 to my 1000 song goal of recorded original songs.

You can probably imagine how much better my songs would sound if I played with both hands. Drop by a big-box music center that carries a broad range of arrangers and try one on for size. You won't regret it. The newer manuals for the Yamaha line are excellent.

Best wishes,

Dave

Thanks for the ideas.

I think you can certainly get away with ezdrummer for drums if you have a decent knowledge of drumming. It gets kind of cheesy if you try to do too much with it. For Americana or pop music it's more than fine or country, for rock stuff, I kind of think a real drummer is needed.

To me, there is nothing worse than a one handed piano player, I can do that myself, and punch in and put down A track. I cant put down anything interesting, so with all the sacrficies you make to do it on your own at home, that probably shoudlnt be one.

Bass is also very hard to get something good without good bass gear, and playability, i think people really underestimate the bass in their recordings.

Guess it comes down to what you want to do with your recordings, do you want them as demos, do you want them as your album, do you want them to try out ideas, each one requires different skill set.

Still waiting to see if anybody has a demo of it, lol. I know at 179 bucks it's not cheap, and if spending that much it better be better than me with one hand!

Like any musical instrument, using computer generated sounds will only be as good as the user. Crap in crap out!

I have been in and out of bands most of my life and played with some of the best players, John Daubert, Mike Caro, John Marnie, to name a few. I agree if you have this quality of musicians at your disposal on your beckon call, no computer or arranger can match what they can do. But those that do, are fortunate.

Most do not. Yes you can hire musicians, which I have done, but as Bugsey points out, the cost is, well costly. And yes I’ve heard the philosophy that if you’re serious about your music you’ll pay.

I’ve been in quite a few studios in my life, several in the past few months and computer enhanced/generated sounds are quietly replacing “real” musicians. So you wrote this country song and want a good pedal steel player to add a lead but you’re in Fairbanks Alaska and all the good pedal steel players are in Nashville. What do you do? A decent studio has some killer pedal steel tracks that they can add. Not precanned loops with the same content but randomly produced steel guitar notes that play based on what notes are in your song. The key is using real tracks and not midi generated sounds. I know of several studios that produce and charge for quality professional demos and are using tracks for parts if not all of the song. Right or wrong is up for debate.

I have sat at a mixing console with Sub and John Daubert editing/altering sounds. Hey I wish that piano lead was a Hammond B-3. Well let’s go in the mix, highlight the piano wav and replace it with a Hammond B-3 patch. I wish I could sing harmonies. Get a harmonizer and there you go. What about what we do with pro-tools? Hey replace those two notes on that guitar lead with the ones in the next measure. For me all of these are tools. I’m ether playing a computer or a piano. The more I learn the better the sound.

Bottom line is YES, real (good) musicians are always desirable, but I think they’re a dying breed. Just go out on a Saturday night and search for LIVE music. And when you do find that live band, look around for the little laptop quietly sitting waiting for triggered background additions.

For what it's worth this track has ez grand piano and ez drummer although I kept it well back in the mix
http://soundcloud.com/vic-arnold/jealous-heart

In a perfect world I would agree with Johnny and if you're planning a CD get as many real people as you can afford without starving yourself.
Vic

I think in today's world, nobody expects to pay for anything, even real musicians. People have built contact lists of people who record at home, some have drum kits set up to record, others have acoustic guitars, others sing, some play banjo.

Things is you cant continue to do that, i dont like asking anybody, people who i virtually know to play on my recordings for free, and alot of times they dont play parts that add to arrangement, they kind of just play. *being able to record an instrument is one thing, really adding to the song is another.

But the thread started with wanting to hear EZ piano, look at how it has morphed! lol

Thanks Vicarn. I listened, if I hear a faint touch of piano on the chords midway through the mix, im lucky lol.

Really playing the chord as it passes by I could do myself, it's the in between the chord stuff that makes it a nice piano track.

Nice song though!

"Really playing the chord as it passes by I could do myself, it's the in between the chord stuff that makes it a nice piano track" - Bugsey

Yes, the in-between stuff is the icing. Though it can be overdone when the pianist wants to show-off his cops. Then it becomes mud. Walk a fine line on the in-between stuff. Don't crowd the singer.

John

Yeah, every musician I was ever in a band with back in the day overplayed, one band i was in the bass player was a Geddie Lee fanatic, so he played all that, the drummer liked Keith Moon Bonham, The keyboard player liked Jazz. Nightmare!

I need a guy like Roy Bittan! Just the right amount of playing, but the guy can go off at any moment if he wanted to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0DjrXDBJnU

Dream on.

I certainly will.

YES! Do that, DREAM!

BUT, do more of living your dream while awake and with lots of Action!

Picture what you want. Picture who you might want to work with. Then "keep" working at everything possible to maybe one day realize at least part, if not the whole dream. Maybe your dream will change here and there. Whatever you have passion for, also keep passionate about your efforts, learning, and giving to others.

Dream on, and "HOLD ONTO YOUR DREAMS"!:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=2302040
This song was licensed to a show that featured John Lennon! So, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah! Dreams can come true!


They're people like you!

I bought the EZKeys upright piano when it was on sale. It is marketed as a songwriting tool because you can easily create and change chord progressions in many styles. The piano samples sound excellent and you can play any MIDI track (or play one on your keyboard) and use the samples as your piano. You could easily use their piano chording as the basic track and add another one finger track to play melodies and fills, etc. The EZKeys chords come in a lot of styles and mostly resemble arpeggios that would be used behind a singer. The sounds are samples of a real piano and are not computer generated like a synthesizer.

I have not had it long so I don't have a finished song to demonstrate but I will in the future because it is an excellent tool.

yeah adding melodies and such would be interesting, but i think you'd have to think about if it sounds like a real player.

Like if he's playing a bass note with his left, a chord with his right, how the hell is he playing a melody line too. Kind of like drum machines, where you have a beat going with high hats etc, and then adding fills on top of the beat. A drummer cant do that, and it doesnt sound good anything.

Youd probably have to go into midi, delet some of the played notes from ez piano, and then add what you want, to make it sound like one person is playing it.

Also, when adding a melody is it going to sound different to the other parts, cause one is sampled, one is you playing

"Like if he's playing a bass note with his left, a chord with his right, how the hell is he playing a melody line too" - Bugsey

I do it all the time Bugsey. The sustaining pedal is like having an extra hand. Chords, bass notes, and melody can be merged together in a multitude of ways. May sound like magic, but it's all technique.

John

My piano teacher once showed me a piece that required one's nose to play certain notes. Hey, don't laugh, it worked.

John

Not when it comes to playing melodies that land on the chord
The voicing has to be right.

You play a run and say the final note of the run is a "b" note,
of a G chord. In order for that to sound like a real player, his g chord would have to be voiced G-D-B

Sustain pedal would only come into play when holding a chord, and playing a transition note into a new chord.

Notice how this intro, the runs are played into the chord. EZ piano will not that do that, it will play the chord the way it wants to, and then you would be adding the melody, which would sound like two people playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol0dPJdzm1M

I love EZ Piano, and the arranger is wonderful for songwriting. It's one of the tools I use the most in my studio.

Here's a song with the piano incorporated https://soundcloud.com/the-songcabinet/good-together

I did play the part myself, but sometimes I find the midi very useful too. Like when I need a temptrack to record to, and it's very EZ to edit and tweak as you please.

If I had to choose only one tool for songwriting on the computer, EZ Keys would be it. It's that useful.

Yeah for songwriting, but how bout performing?

The melody you played I take is for reference purposes, you're playing the melody of the song. I can do that as well, but it's not real accompaniment.

Why is it that even the site plays songs where the piano player is playing the piano? The whole point of it is for somebody who doesnt play.

Yours sounds nice enough, but thats not what Im looking to buy it for. I want to hear songs with the phrases given in the software, to hear how well they merge.

Band in a box is better than this from what Im gathering. I got tired of band in a box a while ago

Ever since it came out I've been a bit curious about that one too, but I am too convinced I would be annoyed by its decisions to ever buy it.

I agree with Johnny about a good player always sounding better, but I also think it's essential to have a good keyboard program to write the thing on your own before you get an ace to play it. When I use a piano player, I like to have a great example of what I'm looking for before they take it and run somewhere else with it.

Rather than have some dumbass machine tell me what my song should sound like, if I'm not good enough to play what I hear in my head, I will piece it together bit by bit. I'll play the left hand with my right, maybe, or just build up the whole thing note by note. If I just can't do any of that because I'm baffled, I call in a great player and ask if they'll give it a shot.

One thing I've learned--if you ask, they almost always say yes. You'd be surprised how many good players just don't even get approached because people assume they're too busy being awesome, or constantly gigging for millions. No, most players are itching for the next project, waiting for another something fun to do.

yeah, you prolly have 100's of songs in your soundclick, imagine paying for real musicians for every track lol

I was excited about EZ piano too, I thought it was going to be similar to ez drummer with all that editability, drums are an excellent program, you can do basicly anythng a drummer can do without being one, I dont think thats the case with ezpiano.

Notes are always tougher than rhythms for software people to master. Chords especially.

Hmm, after reading more reviews, I learned a few good things about EZ piano.

One, you can change the chord inversion, which I think means alot, and you can also remove or add notes to a chord with one click.

What that all translates to is being able to overdub in real time.

You think, ok I want a melody here, so I will remove these nots from the preset, put that in the daw, and then play the melody yourself to go along with it, and if you work it out right, it might actually sound like one person is playing.

Still not perfect but a little bit better then what I thought before. The real issue is how they charge for every extra midi part they make. You have to first pay 179 bucks for a grand piano, and the same amount if you want electric piano, or upright, which is crazy.

THEN you have to pay for all the midi packs, You could easily spend 500 bucks before your done, and still not get exactly what you want from it.

What to do? Punt?

Try asking them to change that one chord on bar 11 from a D to an A at 2:30 AM! Oops 3:30 AM I liked the D better. See my point?

Once you have the program, it will create a midi file as you record your parts into it. There are tons of keyboard patches made by other companies, even some that are pretty good for free. What's to stop you from copying the midi notes you created in EZ Piano and pasting them onto a different track that's patched to a different sound? Organ, Rhodes, other pianos...whatever virtual instrument patch you might have. Midi tracks are just notes and velocity signals, etc. I do that all the time--write the file in one program and use another program to play it.

Yeah thats true too. I wonder if you use non-ez piano midi files of piano parts, will they work in ezpiano?

Why buy all their midi packs if you can find them for free online, or is that just a rediculous idea?

Well, the free piano sounds online aren't always very detailed...but there are some serviceable ones...and some outstanding organ and electric piano sounds.

But yes, the piano patch in EZ Piano will read and play any midi file. I do the same thing between EZ Drummer and Addictive Drums.

You could do A LOT with one good piano sound just by messing with its tone through EQ and effects. That said, I like to have a few good piano voicings to choose from. I use Steinberg's The Grand 3, which gives me in-depth samples of a Bosendorfer, a Yamaha C7 and a Steinway, as well as an Upright and an Electric piano. Having that variety means a lot to me because I jump from so many different styles of music. But it wouldn't mean too much if I stuck to one or two styles.

I'd get EZ Piano for the ease of developing a piano part, but I wouldn't worry too much about sticking to their particular patches unless they were the best I could find for what they charge.

My main purpose for it would be to have it for playing on my recordings. I think the grand piano sounds really good, im more worried about how well it will perform while im watching over it;s shoulder!

How much variety can I get. With ezdrums, if I spend enough hours on it, i can get it to do exactly what I want it to do, it;s not easy, but achievable.

I think EZ Piano will do the same. I've heard mostly good reviews.

They do like to charge though, dont they

Hi Bugsey,

You sound determined to buy this thing. Check to see if there's a money back guarantee.

I'm not familiar with your songs so I don't know if this applies to you, but after I write a song, I just know it's brilliant and really believe everyone else will as well. Then I face reality and the fact that for every 100 songs, I might have a handful of good ones, maybe one great one. I think I'm a pretty good songwriter but I'm also realistic.

If I think that one song is so great, or that a handful are pretty good, you better believe I'll look for the best musicians to demo them for me. At $400 max, usually less, it forces you to be serious about your creations. Is that a lot of money? It's all relative. What are you looking for in the end? An outstanding demo to give to friends or something solid to pitch? What's $1000 or $2000 over your lifetime? How many packs of cigarettes or, in my case, pounds of chocolate is it worth to you?

I think people are way too quick to jump on the demo train. I know I did many more than I probably should have but have no regrets. I used a few different producers, most of whom I met here and now have songs that I will forever be proud of. And they sound fantastic, very competitive.

So, Bugsey, after paying ?$? for this gadget, will it make your demos sound like topnotch musicians played their hearts out on it? Can they compete with topnotch musicians on the other guy's demos? Is there a money back guarantee? Just askin.

Ricki

You answered under Marks name, and called him bugsey

Yeah, but im not recording them to be "picked up" by an artist.
Im writing for myself the artist. it wouldnt make any difference anyway, if i had them recorded by a professional team, no artist is going to want to record them, That doesnt happen enough to waste money on.

Im writing for myself, maybe get good enough recordings to pitch for tv or movies, or make my own cd.

I have so many songs that I have never done a thing with, If I want a 100 song collection in my soundclick, the only reasonable way to do it, is to do it myself, with a little help perhaps.

if I had one standout song, I would consider getting it done, while still singing and playing some. But it would still be as "me" not for some other artist, unless they begged.

As far as I know, Mark hasnt gotten any of his collection redone.

I think you'd be surprised how much dough somebody like Mark and others who are serious about recording have shelled out in the name of this hobby. if you're doing it to get back your investment, fuhgettabout it!

it's not a cheap hobby, needle point and crochet are much cheaper.

That's because my recordings ARE my demos! I got several of them signed, as is, for pitches to artists, and a lot of others are now co-owned by music supervisors for use in TV/Film. They could be better, always, but I prefer to keep moving on to the next project. So why bother to re-do them unless specifically asked? The production quality of a lot of the songs on my site stinks to high heaven, especially going back in time, because I started out with old cassette tapes, then new cassette tapes, then a lot of learning digital recording on the fly. I still over-compress things. I might re-do some of the older ones that I still like.

But my reasons may be different than a lot of people's: I do it for myself. I do it because I have a headful of songs, and I like to write and record them. The process is my goal, not what happens afterwards. I do it for the same reason people go bowling--to bowl! So, to me, farming it out to a demo studio would not only be an unnecessary expense, it would also bother and disappoint me. I would only do it if specifically requested for a guaranteed placement.

The kind of money I've spent? Well, I'm a pretty cheap date. I've rarely spent as much as $300 in one shot, except in the case of some of the musical instruments I've had for a long time, like my Strat and my acoustic guitar. I've built up my arsenal gradually, buying things over time, piece by piece, almost always at bargain basement prices.

Soundclick, to me, is just a storage facility. I don't care about any other aspect of it...it's just a place where the music can be found. And the price is right.

"it's not a cheap hobby, needle point and crochet are much cheaper" - Bugsey

Oh yeah? I just ordered three frames for my wife's needlepoint - $130.

John

Just the guitars alone are alot of money to somebody who "writes" songs. Pre amps, Daws, Monitors, Mics, Software as in ez drummer, ezpiano, Talking thousands of dollars.

Building up little by little still costs the same as all at once lol. I can really only get guitar, vocals and drums right now. So it will cost me either way getting piano bass and other stuff in.

I want my records to be my demos too! I really only have good enough recordings for me to hear.

You can't make that back, you have to do it cause you want to, and enjoy doing it.

It costs money, nobody can say it doesnt

Damn nothings cheap anymore. only advice LOL, especially mine!

Here is a demo using EZKeys. http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...amp;PHPSESSID=gjn42krno2i857vl9lu295h8h5

By the way, don't forget if you are going to use a real piano part, its not enough to have the player...the piano has to be tuned! So hire a real live tuner, not a canned one.

You're welcome, Johnny.

I think it sounds better as an acompaniment than a lead, the intro sounds kind of choppy and mechanical, but once the music starts it blends in pretty nice.

Cool song.