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#1026619 - 10/19/13 06:27 AM Funny Thing About Recording....  
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Bugsey Offline
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Bugsey  Offline
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Ive been tossing around the idea of recording my own album, I have so many songs that are collecting dust over the years, and new ones collecting newer dust, so thats a dillemna in itself.

But as I dig deeper into recording there are some enigmas when doing it.

One such is how the sound of each individual instrument tend to shrink when a new instrument is added.

I programmed a drum track, and im thinking these drums are massive, they are going to be too loud and slamming for a song that doesn't need that.

Then add just one guitar and suddenly it loses it's spaciousness.

Im guessing that there is only so much room in the sonic field for everything to coexist.

But drums that seemed to be bombastic and large suddenly have a hard time cutting through the mix. and you might not even be able to hear the high hats clearly.

This after hearing nothing but high hat when it was by itself.

Strange how that happens.

Might be worth getting some pros to help me, it's hard enough being the voice of a generation!

Last edited by Bugsey; 10/19/13 06:27 AM.
#1026628 - 10/19/13 09:09 AM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Bugsey]  
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Vicarn Offline
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Vicarn  Offline
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It's a lot to do with equalisation of the parts I believe.
For example if you want the kick drum to stand out you take the low frequency out of the bass guitar. Also the quality of your speakers and the state of your eardrums. Then there's compression and reverb. Oh, but if it was that simple everyone could do it.
Vic


It's never too late? Yes it is, so do it now.

If, given time, a monkey can write the complete works of Shakespeare maybe there's hope for me.
http://www.soundclick.com/vicarnold

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#1026751 - 10/20/13 11:20 AM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Vicarn]  
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Sue Rarick Offline
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Sue Rarick  Offline
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Vicarn is right, if it was easy everyone could do it.

There are really only two hard and fast rules. Get a great take with dynamics and headroom and if anyone says there is only one way to do something....run like hell.

It takes years to learn but you have to start someplace.

#1026759 - 10/20/13 01:12 PM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Sue Rarick]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Thanks all.

@ Sue I have been recording for many years first with cassette recorders then daws. What I have yet to do is produce a marketable recording. Mostly demos. Most folks on the forum are only making demos too.

In the past, I started out thinking I would make such a recording, but realized early in that it was going to be just another demo.

You need the gear, you need the ear, you need the room, you need musicianship, you need the experience as to what is a good sound and what isnt.

Think your right though, recording is an art just as playing music or writing it is

We all want to do everything because we "can" but maybe we can NOT.


#1026760 - 10/20/13 01:12 PM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Sue Rarick]  
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Colin Ward Online content
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Bugsey,

What you say is true and that's where the skill of mixing comes in. I don't know what genre you play but it is possible to make everything sound good.....

To make everything audible, you have a number of tools. The stereo spread (nobody listens to mono any more so use the stereo field). The EQ as Vic mentioned. The relative volumes of the instruments and vocals and when they occur (guitar fills should not walk on important vocals for instance). Time based effects like reverb and delay which can make something sound front and center or distant and off to one side. And compression which helps make the softer bits audible.

Listen to my best friends in this video as the song builds. You can hear everything as it comes in. This was recorded in a small room in a beach cottage, not in a fancy studio.....it's mostly the skill not the equipment.



Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1026761 - 10/20/13 01:32 PM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Colin Ward]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Thanks Colin, I listened. It sounds really good.

You can make audible recordings with a cassette recorder too.

Making recordings that make people forget about the song(which happens far too much these days) is a big different.

Acoustic stuff can really sound good, I find it's hard to get a great rock sound, especially without a band.

I'm like a garage musician who leaves the group to go solo, and in this case solo really means SOLO. It's hard going from live musicians and bands to drum machines and do it yourself.

The average listener is going to compare you to what they hear on the radio or to their favorite groups.

If you dont sound as good, your not as good. In their minds.

But as indies we dont have much choice




#1026851 - 10/21/13 11:46 AM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Bugsey]  
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All good advice on here.

In your original post you hit on the classic issue which faces all recording enthusiasts. How do I get that ‘great sound’ to sound right in the mix? I’m sure we’ve all found a nice sound on a keyboard and thought I want to use that, but then realise that it will need to be shaped in some way (usually EQ) to enable it to work.

There are many ways to build up a mix but what I would suggest is to decide what are the most important features of your recording (e.g vocal and guitar) get those right and then bring the other instruments in one by one and check how they effect the overall sound.

#1026865 - 10/21/13 01:47 PM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Nigel Quin]  
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Ray E. Strode Online content
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Humm,
Practice, practice, practice! Hank Thompson, remember him?, if not Google him. After a virgious road trip where he, and his band perfected his next album, was more than ready for the studio. and he as well as many other's who all went into the Studio and recorded. If they didn't get it right on the first cut, they dd it again.


Ray E. Strode
#1026882 - 10/21/13 04:32 PM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Bugsey  Offline
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Practice always pays off. Definitly hard to practice everything, though.

What do you practice? Guitar? Bass? Drums? Piano? Harmonica? Mandolin? Singing? Harmony.

Writing music? Writing lyrics? Writing hooks? Writing instrumentation?

Recording guitar? recording vocals? Recording bass? Recording drums? Recording Harmonica?

Producing, Mixing, Mastering

That is what we are all trying to do when we want to do it all ourselves. And every piece is as important as the other.

it could take a lifetime just to master lyrics alone!

Far as the old days, I think Paul Simon had a similar experience as Hank Thompson. He and Garfunkel wrote a song and took it to a public studio which cost them 25 bucks, no editing, if you screwed up tuff luck that was your record.

They pulled it off a song called "Hey School Girl" as luck would have it an exec who was using the studio after they were really liked them, and signed them to a deal.

Luck isnt going away either, need luck as well as talent and hard work

#1026953 - 10/22/13 10:20 AM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Bugsey]  
Joined: May 2006
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Colin Ward Online content
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Nobody said it was easy!


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#1026965 - 10/22/13 11:54 AM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Colin Ward]  
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Sue Rarick Offline
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That $25 is the equivalent of $200/250 today. Paul's dad was a musician and bandleader so Paul was well versed in music which means he probably had charts and the musicians in those 'public studios' (demo studios) were good readers and those places were often used by publishers and record companies (rates were cheaper than using their own studios). Paul also got his degree in English Lit. so was also pretty well trained when it came to writing.

So the answer to all the questions is - Yes
And he had the good sense to have a professional handle what he wasn't proficient in.

PS: My mom was a professional musician and teacher. By age ten I could read and write simple charts. She had enough connections to get me gigs in those demo studios at a young age.

Last edited by Sue Rarick; 10/22/13 11:58 AM.
#1026966 - 10/22/13 12:21 PM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Colin Ward]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Bugsey  Offline
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Originally Posted by Colin Ward
Nobody said it was easy!


It's not, I think the DIY industry has made a ton of money off of wanna be recording stars.

So much business is generated from the whimsical dreams of probably millions of self supporting artists.

And the beauty of the business is it continues to make new gadgets and technologies, not to better music, but to make more money.

I think the people doing it the old way are still making the best music.

#1026967 - 10/22/13 12:23 PM Re: Funny Thing About Recording.... [Re: Sue Rarick]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Bugsey  Offline
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Originally Posted by Sue Rarick
That $25 is the equivalent of $200/250 today. Paul's dad was a musician and bandleader so Paul was well versed in music which means he probably had charts and the musicians in those 'public studios' (demo studios) were good readers and those places were often used by publishers and record companies (rates were cheaper than using their own studios). Paul also got his degree in English Lit. so was also pretty well trained when it came to writing.

So the answer to all the questions is - Yes
And he had the good sense to have a professional handle what he wasn't proficient in.

PS: My mom was a professional musician and teacher. By age ten I could read and write simple charts. She had enough connections to get me gigs in those demo studios at a young age.


Even people who CAN do it themselves, usually dont. There is always more value bringing in people who know what they are doing.

There isnt alot of charting in rock and pop music, it's more feel based. I'd rather have a guy who doesnt read a bit of music but who has great ears, than anybody who has studied music.

I havent heard any of your music, do you have any samples?


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