Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Deej56
Fedmetrio,

Appreciate the listen. In regards to your question, the short answer is “no.” It’s not based on either of those two songs . . . and actually, based on my limited understanding, BIAB doesn’t quite work like that. They use live performers who essentially work their ways through a chord sheet playing in different styles/genres. So while some styles may be reminiscent of certain artists, they are not per se based on the any one particular artist.

For this tune, I was looking for style something more Willie Nelson sounding, or even a slow Presley type ballad. In the end, I usually end up doing a mix and match, working my way through different instruments and styles (kinda like auditioning the performers) and work in what sounds good to me.

Thanks again for stopping in!

Deej


Biab DOES work that way. They do style lifts and even band lifts. For instance, you could easily find a Mark Knopfler style solo, with his picking style and strat sound. and it may say something like "Sultans Today" Or a BB King "Thril is gone style"
or if u wanted a rolling stones backing band, theres a style set for that. Guitar rig works in a similar way, they have sounds preset to what you want to sound like...this patch will sound like angus young, this one will sound like Queen

What they do is take the most popular stuff ever recorded from different eras, and have studio musicians play a similar version of it. Then its actually a midi track, which goes through an algorithm and it will spit out different variations of what was originally burned into it. But they model a lot of the music based on whats been done already


Hi FD,

I feel a need to address what you wrote to Deej here.

You say, "What they do is take the most popular stuff ever recorded from different eras, and have studio musicians play a similar version of it. Then its actually a midi track, which goes through an algorithm and it will spit out different variations of what was originally burned into it."


As I have said several times in this thread, you are referring to a past era of BIAB--BIAB before 2012. Midi is still available to use, but Realtracks AUDIO has superseded midi as the main, central, "go to" feature. Very few BIAB users use the midi styles at all. Realtracks Audio are actual audio performances from actual pro-studio musicians, playing along to a long, boring chart that runs through most every key, no midi involved whatsoever in this process.

And these "charts" the musicians are playing are generic "circle of fifths" kinda charts, and every performer plays the same chord chart, so..ahem..when you say, "they play the most popular stuff ever recorded from different eras, and have studio musicians play a similar version of it." --THAT, kind sir, is wrong, wrong, wrong. EVERY PERFORMANCE STYLE plays the same "circle of fifths" style chart that runs through most keys, so the algorithm that can snatch specific chords from specific performances can do a consistently good job of it. If there was inconsistency in the audio-rendered-chord charts, there would be mayhem at BIAB central, LOL.

For the most part, very few of these styles refer to or are copying actual songs or even artists that exist in the real world, but are more generalized. Whereas in the midi era, you'd have BIAB styles named after songs or artists, with Realtracks they wanted to offer something that was less specific to an artist, but more specific to a genre. And the BIAB labeling of Realtracks has followed suit. Instead of a midi style named "Mylie" or "Miles ballad" you have Realtracks styles labelled, "Country Syncopated w/Resonator Guitar" or "smooth jazz ballad with trumpet solo" --but with BIAB post 2012, to dial in a specific artist or song, one must either go retro and use a midi style, or God forbid, write the darn thing out by hand and render it with a virtual instrument in a DAW..ooh shudder at the thought..kidding..

There are some exceptions. Funny you mention Dire Straits, cuz when BIAB transitioned into their audio era, they started to still make a few styles that referred to artists and songs, and Darin Favorite's playing on the Realtracks style, "Sultans of Straits" is spot-on Mark Knopfler--partly because Knopfler's way of touching a Strat is very specific to him and few others (Richard Thompson being one of the first) BUT also because BIAB hadn't figured out their new path was to move away from "artist specific" styles and into "genre specific styles" which is 99% of what they are doing now and mostly since 2012, with Realtracks Audio..

A prior issue I'd like to address. I think the reason you thought BIAB sounded like crap is because back when it was all midi, (midi being the prior BIAB era that you've been talking about, unbeknownst to yourself) when playing a song in BIAB, you were hearing "Roland Sound Canvas" or "Edirol Hyper Canvas" --which came with BIAB. These were basically teeny tiny "soundfonts" that would give a producer an "idea" of what it could sound like. NOT MEANT FOR FINAL PRODUCTION..No..When producers used BIAB as a tool before Realtracks, they had to render the midi to a virtual instrument in a DAW, such as Cubase or Logic. THEN and only then would that midi style come to life and be anything nearly good sounding. But some instruments still sounded crappy when rendered to audio via virtual instruments. Strummed guitars for one, always sounded crappy. I don't think I ever rendered a strummed guitar from midi to audio via a virtual guitar that was usable. But the Realtracks audio guitar styles are all pretty good, and few since the Dire ones sound like anyone in particular, but umbrella over particular genres nicely.

You can still search through BIAB's "songpicker" by writing in names of famous songs, and oft times a Realtracks audio style will be mentioned. But if you listen to that style, it simply shares the same tempo, time signature, type of note rhythm (straight or swing 8ths, or straight or swing 16th notes) and shares a BASIC common feel, such as "country ballad" or "sparse Americana."

If you don't want to research for yourself and don't trust me (a daily BIAB user for over a decade) for whatever reason, ask Vic if what I say here is true or not. He uses Realtrack era BIAB more consistently in every song more than me, at this point, and you yourself have made nice comments on his songs.

There is no debate to be had on this issue. There is NO MIDI involved in a modern day, everyday usage of BIAB. It is only optional, and as far as midi goes, you are indeed correct. But hardly anyone uses the midi functionality in BIAB, anymore, and there are hardly any Realtrack audio styles being generated at BIAB headquarters that sound like particular artists, unless it's an artist that is simply sounding like themselves..they've had several well known studio musicians performing Realtracks, mostly from the jazz world like Jeff Lorber and Ron Carter.

Mike


Well the midi tracks for sure sounded like crap.

The main problem with $1000 demos even still is there is no way to know by what percentage you increase your chances by having a $1000 demo. do you go from a 1% chance to a 2% chance, not worth it, or from a 1% chance to a 50% chance. Nobody knows, we do know that without the great demo you wont be heard at all

In the end if everybody has a 1000 demo, then we start all over again. I still believe it comes down to how good your song is. Your melody, your chord progression, your hooks, good being subjective of course. But you could have a $10k demo, if the person in charge doesnt think they can make money on it, in the trash it goes.

Your best shot in my estimation is recording your own stuff, releasing it as you, or if you cowrite releasing it under your cowriter, and see what happens online.

If writing for fun, you really dont need demos at all, unless you record demos for fun.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 04/12/19 03:28 PM.