Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Deej56
Well, after posting for a short while a long defense of the quality of feedback we receive from our fellow JPF members and the merits of this website, I think discretion is the better part of valor . . . and I'll stay on the sidelines.

But there's part of what I did write that I will share, and it's this:

"I’d simply take this opportunity to salute and thank my fellow members of the JPF community. I remember when I posted my first song here, with great trepidation and reluctance. . . it was pretty much crap—me on a guitar, single track recorded over my Mac laptop mic . . . I tell you honestly, if I got the type of blunt, harsh reactions that perhaps I deserved, rather than the encouragement and kind, supportive feedback that I did receive, I might never had the courage to post again."

So thank you JPF for your tolerance and kind welcome and fellowship.

My best regards to all of you,

Deej


The merits of this site for me are, 1. sharing thoughts on music or other stuff, if it comes up. 2. Finding collaborators, I dont need them, but I see its value for finding people to write songs with, especially for lyricists. Some folks would not have any collabs if not for this site. 3. Networking

But this quote: "I’d simply take this opportunity to salute and thank my fellow members of the JPF community. I remember when I posted my first song here, with great trepidation and reluctance. . . it was pretty much crap—me on a guitar, single track recorded over my Mac laptop mic . . . I tell you honestly, if I got the type of blunt, harsh reactions that perhaps I deserved, rather than the encouragement and kind, supportive feedback that I did receive, I might never had the courage to post again."

Look what you wrote "it was pretty much crap—me on a guitar, single track recorded over my Mac laptop mic"

That doesnt make a song crap, but its perceieved as crap because people want to hear recordings. Recordings are not songs. And I think people have figured out, that the best way to make people think your songs are good and you;re good, is to have good recordings of the songs. Thats not true at all.

If the song was good all you would need is a vocal good enough to hit the melody and clear enough to be heard. But when people do that, they dont get the same responses as somebody whos putting up polished tracks, thats why they go through all the rings to get a recording.

The only people who get "picked on" are the people who have bad recordings or bad vocals. No matter how good or as equal their song may be, the will get dings from the posters, and others follow suit, because they believe its ok, since it sounds bad.

If you really want to see how good your songwriting is try stripped down recordings. But dont be surprised if its not praised like better recordings are, which is a different thing than songwriting. Home recording forums are better for that, and whats funny is, you wont see any of the people responding there saying a word about the song, they could care a less, they critique the recording.


Perhaps that has been your experience, but it isn't just here that people want polished presentations. If someone says "this is a basic vocal/guitar only demo to get the song, melody and lyrics down. What do you think? Most people won't STILL expect a finished song. However if you say "This is my new single, what do you think?" then people SHOULD expect a finished song, or should alert someone that it isn't ready for commercial release if it isn't. I think the responsibility rests with the person ASKING for help. Be clear on what you are presenting and what you are looking for? "Hey, this is a vocal/piano demo of a song I am working on. Do you think the lyrics work, especially in how the bridge ties the story together transitioning the "all is lost" moment into the solution and resolution at the end of the song. Etc. If you want a good critique, take the time to explain what you want from them. If you say "this is my song, feedback please" then any fault with the results is entirely on the poster, not the listener/critique giver. It's okay to say "I am a beginner and this is my first song. Am I on the right track?" Now you've given the listener CONTEXT that they can work with. Sadly most people expect brilliant and deep responses when they can't be bothered to offer need CONTEXT to what they are posting. I think most of the time it is either someone too new to know better, or laziness. I can happily help the first, but I owe nothing to the latter. Context also extends to who the person is. Do they help critique others? Are they brand new? Are they someone who posts over and over and not only doesn't critique anyone else, but also doesn't even reply or thank the people who DO spend the time to listen and offer their thoughts. New people should get a pass, but hopefully a polite lesson on how to be more effective in posting for feedback. But for people who should know better, without some staging and context offered by the poster, they have little right to complain or be unhappy with the results. Effort In usually equals Quality of Results on the other side in all things. It is perfectly fine to set the parameters of what you want and then the listener can decide if they want to spend their time offer what the poster is looking for. That's a fair exchange.


Yes I agree Kid Gloves are needed for some people, and every individual is unique. a good coach knows how to talk to all of his players the way its needed. Some Dads need to be tougher on one kid than another for various reasons.

All I mean about the recordings, is people just go and have Mike record their song, and they see it gets better feedback, and suddenly they are writing great songs.

If you stopped to realize ANYBODY can pay Mike to record their song, and in the end they are all about the same.

A great melody will always trump a decent melody and lyrics the same, people dont realize that they can learn to polish their melodys.

How many of us settle on the first thing that comes out, when Paul wrote yesterday he sure didnt stick with scrambled eggs.

Lyricists can re write lyrics of classic songs, and improve just by learning structure and singablity, hook placement, what form is better of certain types of songs.

melody writers can learn over time to fit the correct pegs into the correct holes.

Most of us are not born great writers, for most greatness takes work and alot of it, buying a recording doesnt change that

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 04/01/19 09:52 AM.